Bielema 'guaranteed' Hogs won't see umpire again

[FineAsSwine]

Hmm....every announcer and prognosticators said they had played the best game all year, I guess it depends on one's objective.

Bama's defense giving up 400 yards passing is one objective measure of this not being one of their best games.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

There is a real problem finding experienced officials at just about every level of football.  And experienced does not always translate into being a good official, but it is a start.

Not as many people are gettign into officiating or at least sticking with it, and my guess is it is for 3 reasons:

As young officials, they get tired of dealing with jackass coaches who all think they are Nick Saban

They get tired of dealing with jackass fans at 2 bit hole in the road towns

The pay is not great, as with most jobs, starting out, and it is not worth it to them to travel 100+ miles on a Friday afternoon to call a game for what they get paid.

We have almost 300 guys in our association, and probably 80% of those guys are over 40 years old.  What that means is that we don't have many young guys joining up, and of those that do, a lot don't come back after a year or two.  Part of the problem is that the "learning positions" on a high school crew are line judge and head linesman, and those are the two positions that put you squarely in the crosshairs of the coaches on the sidelines (and the assistant coaches, and the school administrators, and the players...).  You're right; it's a thankless job and unless you just have a pure love for the game and want to do something to give back and be a part of it, it's not going to attract many folks.

[farmhawg]

Bielema looks like a dumbass for mouthing off like that. What made him think he could say something like that and get away with it?

Never stopped him before, shouldn't be surprised now.

[Inhogswetrust]

This response doesn't even make sense. So? There are 10,000 examples of one team not having a TO in a game and the other team does.

It makes sense since he was responding to someone and he thought less turnovers would have made a difference. It wouldn't have. The problem is IF you deduct our turnovers then you should also take their's out and thus it would not have made a difference. We might have scored more but so would they.

[Bacons Rebellion]

My issue is not us getting a bad holding call (I grew up with that), but systemic bias in calls for Alabama or whoever the SEC favorite son is at the time (Florida 2009). The SEC refs will screw  Mississippi State just as quickly as us.

[searkhogfan]

Really? He put pressure on the SEC. He's mouthing displeasure. SOMEBODY told him that and now the conference is hanging him out to dry. You're sophisticated enough to know how these things work.

Exactly,  I'm proud of him.  He just isn't supposed to say those things.  But i'd be surprised to see that ref again for a while..

[code red]

Exactly,  I'm proud of him.  He just isn't supposed to say those things.  But i'd be surprised to see that ref again for a while..

I wouldn't sometimes its best if you just let it go....turn it in to the office and leave it at that.  Bielema should never have said the ref would never be back here....that was illogical on so many levels.

[LA Football fan]

We don't know how many OTHER times that CBB may have had issues with this ref that we never heard about.  CBB turns in reports on calls all the time but sometimes there comes a point in time when just turning in reports doesn't go far enough.   Skipper has been scrutinized more closely than any other player I have seen for a lineman and has been given many suspect holding calls as a result.  I have seen many more obvious holds by opposing lineman that were just ignored.  SEC refs talk with each other and with the SEC head of officials.  They are told which players to watch more closely and will call borderline stuff because of it. 

Alabama gets away with more penalties in a quarter than most teams get all game long.  As others have said, their dbs can grab and hold all day long and if you are lucky, they will get flagged a time or two.  Because of this, their dline and lbs have more time to get to opposing qbs and cause turnovers or loss yardage plays not to mention how this affects wrs getting some separation on routes.    Due to the gag rule, SEC coaches really are hamstrung on pointing out ref bias for the most part.  This ref may or may not call another Hog game but anyone thinking you are going to get a fair shake from the SEC office on officiating if you aren't Bama are kidding yourselves.

[buldozer]

I wonder what all has gone on since Monday that has resulted in CBB apologizing to this official and taking back his statements about him?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/arkansas-football/bret-bielema-apologizes-about-ref-comments/

[Sivad]

I'm glad Coach B is standing up and calling the SEC officials out.
It's been too bad, too flagrant, for too long.

[Pig in the Pokey]

I wouldn't sometimes its best if you just let it go....turn it in to the office and leave it at that.  Bielema should never have said the ref would never be back here....that was illogical on so many levels.

because that has worked so well for us before  . Hell, the ONLY reason the Curles crew got suspended is because a bunch of us lit those fools phones up for DAYS, at home, work, sec office, you name it.

[hoglady]

I wonder what all has gone on since Monday that has resulted in CBB apologizing to this official and taking back his statements about him?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/arkansas-football/bret-bielema-apologizes-about-ref-comments/

Just a guess - but Bielema may have gotten what he wanted if he hadn't gone public with it.
Once he went public - no way could the SEC office back up Bielema's statement.
You'd have every coach in the SEC trying to pick the officials who did their games.

[UAfanatic]

Do you have any idea what that would cost? I do not know what they pay for a SEC game, but in the MEAC, which is FCS level, they pay each official at least $2,000 + travel. How much would you have to pay a guy to quit his day job, giving up his pay + benefits, to be a full time official when the season is only 14 or so weeks long?

I'd say an 8 man crew * 7 crews * 200,000 salary + benefits package

about 11.2 million assuming that there is a full0-time management staff already in place..

in 2014, the SEC made 527 million as a whole with the SEC network, etc

2% is not a steep price for quality, well paid, referees

[Bacons Rebellion]

I'd say an 8 man crew * 7 crews * 200,000 salary + benefits package

about 11.2 million assuming that there is a full0-time management staff already in place..

in 2014, the SEC made 527 million as a whole with the SEC network, etc

2% is not a steep price for quality, well paid, referees

Actually, it probably is a steep price, because it won't result in a 3% increase in profit. Very few empty seats and no fewer commercials because of questionable ref calls. 50% of the fans are happy about the bad call.

Paying them all week to sit around and watch film or something, won't guarantee bad calls against players playing in full SEC speed.

Don't misunderstand me, the refs suck.

[hogsanity]

I'd say an 8 man crew * 7 crews * 200,000 salary + benefits package

about 11.2 million assuming that there is a full0-time management staff already in place..

in 2014, the SEC made 527 million as a whole with the SEC network, etc

2% is not a steep price for quality, well paid, referees

What you are not considering is some of these guys call other leagues as well, so if the sec hires 8 full time crews ( got to have at least 8 because some weeks there are 6 conf games and 2 or more ooc games ) now what are the other leagues going to do, especially the ones that do not make as much money.

IF full time refs were the way to go, don't you think the nfl would have done that by now?

[onebadrubi]

Just a guess - but Bielema may have gotten what he wanted if he hadn't gone public with it.
Once he went public - no way could the SEC office back up Bielema's statement.
You'd have every coach in the SEC trying to pick the officials who did their games.

Maybe he went public with something he wasn't suppose too, the SEC office made him retract and apologize because they didn't want it known the acknowledge his issues?

[onebadrubi]

What you are not considering is some of these guys call other leagues as well, so if the sec hires 8 full time crews ( got to have at least 8 because some weeks there are 6 conf games and 2 or more ooc games ) now what are the other leagues going to do, especially the ones that do not make as much money.

IF full time refs were the way to go, don't you think the nfl would have done that by now?

The NFL isn't the greatest thing to use as a precedence here.  Many many people in this world think there are certain things done in a game to enhance the "entertainment" purposes by refs. 

[Russ22]

Bielema looks like a dumbass for mouthing off like that. What made him think he could say something like that and get away with it?

Standard Operating Procedure for Bert.

[Oklahawg]

Makes me wonder if part of the crappy calls from Saturday were payback for the aggressive pushback from Bielema vs Bama.

And, let's be clear - the coach's job is to stand up and protect his players. When you are getting hosed, the players need the coach to stand up. I applaud him for that.

[hogsanity]

Makes me wonder if part of the crappy calls from Saturday were payback for the aggressive pushback from Bielema vs Bama.

And, let's be clear - the coach's job is to stand up and protect his players. When you are getting hosed, the players need the coach to stand up. I applaud him for that.

Makes me wonder what all these crappy calls supposedly were. I watched the game, I saw two, the PI on Sprinkle and the missed facemask on KH, although with the position of their bodies, that one was pretty hard to see from the angle of the side judge or the back judge.

The NFL isn't the greatest thing to use as a precedence here.  Many many people in this world think there are certain things done in a game to enhance the "entertainment" purposes by refs. 

That is a different subject, the subject I was addressing was the idea of full time refs, and it is just not feasible. Most officials at the high d1 level or pro level have really good day jobs, and they are not going to give those up to become full time refs sitting around watching films and going through training 9-10 months a year.

[311Hog]

Makes me wonder what all these crappy calls supposedly were. I watched the game, I saw two, the PI on Sprinkle and the missed facemask on KH, although with the position of their bodies, that one was pretty hard to see from the angle of the side judge or the back judge.

That is a different subject, the subject I was addressing was the idea of full time refs, and it is just not feasible. Most officials at the high d1 level or pro level have really good day jobs, and they are not going to give those up to become full time refs sitting around watching films and going through training 9-10 months a year.

And i do not see how the product on the field can not atrophy much less grow unless they do.  Fact of the matter is athletes, teams etc. are almost "maxed out" the only area that could see MASSIVE improvement is the referees.  And this is due almost entirely to the FACT that they are not full time.  Athletes train 24/7 365 but the ref shows up for the game and the game only then goes back to being the Asst. Mgr. at Wal mart and you expect them to keep up much less excel.  It just isn't going to happen.  To me this is a huge problem, i have had a little bit of experience as a ref for football and basketball and let me say it was pretty fun, but no way would i pick that as a career it was god aweful dealing with parents, fans, and coaches.  For the most part the players were awesome.  It was definitely not worth the money i was paid to do it.

[z-pak]

Standard Operating Procedure for Bret.
[/quote]
I, for one, am glad our coach says what he feels.  Much better than some other weak sisters on here.

[Sivad]

Standard Operating Procedure for Bret.

Standing up for his players and raising concern about the embarrassingly incompetent (or biased) officiating - I'm on his side.

[hogsanity]

And i do not see how the product on the field can not atrophy much less grow unless they do.  Fact of the matter is athletes, teams etc. are almost "maxed out" the only area that could see MASSIVE improvement is the referees.  And this is due almost entirely to the FACT that they are not full time.  Athletes train 24/7 365 but the ref shows up for the game and the game only then goes back to being the Asst. Mgr. at Wal mart and you expect them to keep up much less excel.  It just isn't going to happen.  To me this is a huge problem, i have had a little bit of experience as a ref for football and basketball and let me say it was pretty fun, but no way would i pick that as a career it was god aweful dealing with parents, fans, and coaches.  For the most part the players were awesome.  It was definitely not worth the money i was paid to do it.

I just do not see a way to have full time refs. While the SEC maybe could afford it, no way most conferences, much less fcs or lower divisions could.

I ref football, and basketball and umpire baseball. Now, it is not at nearly that high of a level, and I do not do it for the money. I just do not see any way they are going to convince these guys who have day jobs making 6 figures ( many of them do ) plus benefits, plus having the flexibility to be gone 12 Fridays ( most college crews have to be in town the day before the game ) to become "full time" refs.

The closest thing to that is mlb umpires, but their season is 8 months ( 9 for the post season guys ) plus some of them work winter ball so it is just about year round for them, But there are only 4 per crew and at most 15 games per night, so they only need 16 or 17 crews counting relief guys. That is fewer than 80 guys. On any Sat in the fall there are 65-70 FBS games alone, even with 7 man crews that is 490 refs, and that does not count fcs or lower level college games.

[UAfanatic]

I don't think the SEC ought to care what other conferences are doing.

We can afford to have the bes.

Someone brought up that a lot of the refs have great jobs and wouldn't give those up.
I would maintain that this is the main problem.

We are limited only to people that make good money already
at a place where they can miss fridays for travel and sometimes for thursday games.. wed-friday
during football season every year.

I'm sure there are fantastic refs that cannot afford this type of hobby.

Also with them having other full time jobs, when do they have time to review their own tape, the tape of other refs, to make sure that calls are consistently called..

they don't

[WMHawgfan]

Bielema looks like a dumbass for mouthing off like that. What made him think he could say something like that and get away with it?

Maybe he didn't care if he got away with it. Maybe he felt it was worth it to get his point across.

Disregard I thought your response was for his criticism of the ref that got a penalty. I now see its of his statement denounced by the SEC.

[hogsanity]

I don't think the SEC ought to care what other conferences are doing.

We can afford to have the bes.

Someone brought up that a lot of the refs have great jobs and wouldn't give those up.
I would maintain that this is the main problem.

We are limited only to people that make good money already
at a place where they can miss fridays for travel and sometimes for thursday games.. wed-friday
during football season every year.

I'm sure there are fantastic refs that cannot afford this type of hobby.

Also with them having other full time jobs, when do they have time to review their own tape, the tape of other refs, to make sure that calls are consistently called..

they don't

Well, what is your answer, get 8-10 crews of 25 year olds and start paying them right now, spending 5-10 or so years to train them in lower level games before they are ready for sec play, paying them all the while enough in $ and benefits to keep them from wanting to get another job?

And what do you do with them the 8-9 months when there is no football? Pay them to sit around and not get a full time job? 

[311Hog]

Well, what is your answer, get 8-10 crews of 25 year olds and start paying them right now, spending 5-10 or so years to train them in lower level games before they are ready for sec play, paying them all the while enough in $ and benefits to keep them from wanting to get another job?

And what do you do with them the 8-9 months when there is no football? Pay them to sit around and not get a full time job? 

Well i believe there are scrimmages that need officials, and 7 on 7 tourney's perhaps? i dunno i just think that the situation is at a breaking point where there aren't "enough" people volunteering basically to be referees, and the product IMHO is suffereing because everyone else involved with the activity of putting on a Football game is a professional (full time trained etc.) except the refs.

[hogsanity]

Well i believe there are scrimmages that need officials, and 7 on 7 tourney's perhaps? i dunno i just think that the situation is at a breaking point where there aren't "enough" people volunteering basically to be referees, and the product IMHO is suffereing because everyone else involved with the activity of putting on a Football game is a professional (full time trained etc.) except the refs.

I do not disagree with that. The thing is, many officials attribute the drop in new officials, and the drop out rate of those who have been officiating to not wanting to deal with fans. Fans who sit and yell and worse, and are usually 100% wrong in their assessment of a call or interpretation of a rule. Or coaches who think they are Nick Saban.

No ref starts out in the sec or in college for that matter. The road is long and filled with nights in podunk towns calling lousy games with coaches and fans who think they are Gods gift to football. Leaving at 1 in the afternoon to get there by 5 or 5:30 for a 7pm kickoff, then driving back getting home at 1 or 2 am after two teams that have no players tried to run the hunh all night and threw 79 incomplete passes. All for $100 and if you are lucky a candy bar and a poweraid.  And now we want people to make that their only job> Not going to happen. 

[snoblind]

Makes me wonder if part of the crappy calls from Saturday were payback for the aggressive pushback from Bielema vs Bama.

And, let's be clear - the coach's job is to stand up and protect his players. When you are getting hosed, the players need the coach to stand up. I applaud him for that.

No doubt in my mind they were.  We talked about it at our pre-game tailgate and all expected it.  Too bad all coaches and their AD's in our league don't say more.  But I also have no doubt part of the conversation leading up to BB's apology was "you ain't seen nothing yet."  Damn shame.

[hogsanity]

No doubt in my mind they were.  We talked about it at our pre-game tailgate and all expected it.  Too bad all coaches and their AD's in our league don't say more.  But I also have no doubt part of the conversation leading up to BB's apology was "you ain't seen nothing yet."  Damn shame.

you people are absolutely hilarious and ridiculous all at once.

[snoblind]

nm

[311Hog]

I do not disagree with that. The thing is, many officials attribute the drop in new officials, and the drop out rate of those who have been officiating to not wanting to deal with fans. Fans who sit and yell and worse, and are usually 100% wrong in their assessment of a call or interpretation of a rule. Or coaches who think they are Nick Saban.

No ref starts out in the sec or in college for that matter. The road is long and filled with nights in podunk towns calling lousy games with coaches and fans who think they are Gods gift to football. Leaving at 1 in the afternoon to get there by 5 or 5:30 for a 7pm kickoff, then driving back getting home at 1 or 2 am after two teams that have no players tried to run the hunh all night and threw 79 incomplete passes. All for $100 and if you are lucky a candy bar and a poweraid.  And now we want people to make that their only job> Not going to happen. 

I am aware of everything you posted and have experienced it all as well.  What i am saying is that i do not want people to do this as their job.  I want people to treat being a referee as an actual job/career.  Something you can be paid well for, and prepared and supported in a manner conducive to success.

I mean if the referee crew wasn't "weekend warriors" under pressure from their "real job" and jaded by low pay and terrible fans etc.  But instead was well paid did not have to worry about their day job, and perhaps had time to "train/study" and perhaps not make a bad call etc. maybe things would change a bit, but who knows if anything can reverse the bad behavior some (fans etc.) have.

[hogsanity]

I am aware of everything you posted and have experienced it all as well.  What i am saying is that i do not want people to do this as their job.  I want people to treat being a referee as an actual job/career.  Something you can be paid well for, and prepared and supported in a manner conducive to success.

I mean if the referee crew wasn't "weekend warriors" under pressure from their "real job" and jaded by low pay and terrible fans etc.  But instead was well paid did not have to worry about their day job, and perhaps had time to "train/study" and perhaps not make a bad call etc. maybe things would change a bit, but who knows if anything can reverse the bad behavior some (fans etc.) have.

Fans wont change, so that is out. As for the rest, how do you get someone to treat officiating as their day job when it really isn't? I know a guy who just got on a fcs crew. He gets 2K per game plus travel. Has to be there on Friday, the conf he is in is so far from his home that he has to fly, which often means leaving on Thur night after work. So this conference in fcs for a 7 man crew is paying 17.5k per game for refs, and they have 5 or 6 conf games every week, so thats 87k-104k every week for refs. Thats over 1.2mil a season just for refs.

Treat it as a job/career? Not going to happen, not well compensated enough, and not enough games in football to make it so close to year around. Most refs I know try to get better, are conscientious about going to camps and honing their skills.

[311Hog]

Fans wont change, so that is out. As for the rest, how do you get someone to treat officiating as their day job when it really isn't? I know a guy who just got on a fcs crew. He gets 2K per game plus travel. Has to be there on Friday, the conf he is in is so far from his home that he has to fly, which often means leaving on Thur night after work. So this conference in fcs for a 7 man crew is paying 17.5k per game for refs, and they have 5 or 6 conf games every week, so thats 87k-104k every week for refs. Thats over 1.2mil a season just for refs.

Treat it as a job/career? Not going to happen, not well compensated enough, and not enough games in football to make it so close to year around. Most refs I know try to get better, are conscientious about going to camps and honing their skills.

yeah it obviously cannot happen in the current framework, but you keep bringing up the cost.  Do they not pay the camera people? the concession stand vendor? the security detail? the clean up crew? fact is there are costs to running events, but my point or my suggestion is the NCAA which obviously has copious amounts of $$$$ laying around should be sponsoring/supporting a "career". Maybe start small have a mix of new "full time type" 40k a year refs mixed in seasoned weekend war vets etc.  If i had the solution i would be implementing it.

I just do not agree with "cost" and "time" being the reason why a juggernaut called football can have "professional" everything else but the referees.

[hogsanity]

yeah it obviously cannot happen in the current framework, but you keep bringing up the cost.  Do they not pay the camera people? the concession stand vendor? the security detail? the clean up crew? fact is there are costs to running events, but my point or my suggestion is the NCAA which obviously has copious amounts of $$$$ laying around should be sponsoring/supporting a "career". Maybe start small have a mix of new "full time type" 40k a year refs mixed in seasoned weekend war vets etc.  If i had the solution i would be implementing it.

I just do not agree with "cost" and "time" being the reason why a juggernaut called football can have "professional" everything else but the referees.

Most of the jobs you mentioned are not full time. The guy who cleans the stadium is not just employed to do that, and sure as heck does not make enough to make that a career.

The other time associated issue is the time it takes for someone to become good enough to call at that level. I went to a seminar lead by a guy who is in his 1st year as a nfl ref. He worked for almost 20 years as a hs ref, then 7 more as a college ref before getting looked at by the nfl. The nfl has recently started a fast track program to try to get more refs on nfl games at younger ages.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Curles apologized to Bielema right after the 12 players on the field penalty.

[311Hog]

Most of the jobs you mentioned are not full time. The guy who cleans the stadium is not just employed to do that, and sure as heck does not make enough to make that a career.

The other time associated issue is the time it takes for someone to become good enough to call at that level. I went to a seminar lead by a guy who is in his 1st year as a nfl ref. He worked for almost 20 years as a hs ref, then 7 more as a college ref before getting looked at by the nfl. The nfl has recently started a fast track program to try to get more refs on nfl games at younger ages.

Yes i know they aren't full time, but they also aren't on the field and do not have a direct impact on the game on a play by play basis.  Basically everyone that has a direct impact on the game is "full time" about it except the referees.

I mean i turned on a game on ESPN the other day and the commentators were openly bashing the referees.  They were basically talking about how the game is losing viewership because of all the penalties and bad calls etc. I watched for probably 30 minutes and in that time i saw stretches where a penalty was called on 9 consecutive plays.  Some could argue that Refs have the "most" impact on the outcome of a football game, even more then the players themselves... and to me that is wrong and to much to be in the hands of someone who isn't in it full time.

[hogsanity]

Yes i know they aren't full time, but they also aren't on the field and do not have a direct impact on the game on a play by play basis.  Basically everyone that has a direct impact on the game is "full time" about it except the referees.

Hey, offer me what I make now at my day job, plus travel, insurance, meals, a divorce attorney, and I am ready. As it is I am leaving in a few minutes to go call 2 7' and a 8th grade game and listen to jr high coaches that do not know jack, and fans that are dumb as rocks when it comes to the rules. Really paints a picture that I am sure you can add to.

[311Hog]

Hey, offer me what I make now at my day job, plus travel, insurance, meals, a divorce attorney, and I am ready. As it is I am leaving in a few minutes to go call 2 7' and a 8th grade game and listen to jr high coaches that do not know jack, and fans that are dumb as rocks when it comes to the rules. Really paints a picture that I am sure you can add to.

oh no man i stopped doing it because what was once a DEEP well of love for the game eroded quickly subjecting myself to these people.  Really that is what i am preaching here that these people and this situation IMHO is killing the sport.  People aren't going to keep putting themselves out there like you are and others do for nothing, and IMHO they shouldn't at least not for the price as there IMHO again there is plenty of $$$$ that at the very least should be pointed at these people to improve the product.

People are worried and rightfully so about concussions, but what happens when there are no referees.

[Bacons Rebellion]

So what are full time referees supposed to do all week? Referee drills?

We could put five mannequin offensive linemen out, and put an umpire opposite them and say, "Ray, I want you to watch the center and two guards until break at 10:30, but whatever you do, don't so much as take one wink at those two tackles. NOT ONE WINK! Hubert, you watch Ray and if you see him look at either of those tackles, so much as for one little second, you make him do 5 pushups. Good ones. At 10:30 you get a 15 minute break. At 10:45 Hubert watches the guards and center and Ray, you watch Hubert. Until you hear the lunch whistle. After lunch we'll have Blood borne Pathogen Training again. There's a quiz on watching only the guards and center tomorrow. Ten multiple choice and 10 true false."

[UAfanatic]

So what are full time referees supposed to do all week? Referee drills?

We could put five mannequin offensive linemen out, and put an umpire opposite them and say, "Ray, I want you to watch the center and two guards until break at 10:30, but whatever you do, don't so much as take one wink at those two tackles. NOT ONE WINK! Hubert, you watch Ray and if you see him look at either of those tackles, so much as for one little second, you make him do 5 pushups. Good ones. At 10:30 you get a 15 minute break. At 10:45 Hubert watches the guards and center and Ray, you watch Hubert. Until you hear the lunch whistle. After lunch we'll have Blood borne Pathogen Training again. There's a quiz on watching only the guards and center tomorrow. Ten multiple choice and 10 true false."

That would definitely get us the same quality as what we have now.


What do the coaches do when football is over, what do the facilities guys do..

this is a crazy argument... hone there skills and get better every day.. like everyone else.

grade each game, each others calls, learn how they mess up and become more consistent.
argue over best inerpretations of rules, and come to consensus..

there are a million ways to get better at your job, if you're not tied down to a full time job
where you can't spend time to get better...

[hogsanity]

oh no man i stopped doing it because what was once a DEEP well of love for the game eroded quickly subjecting myself to these people.  Really that is what i am preaching here that these people and this situation IMHO is killing the sport.  People aren't going to keep putting themselves out there like you are and others do for nothing, and IMHO they shouldn't at least not for the price as there IMHO again there is plenty of $$$$ that at the very least should be pointed at these people to improve the product.

People are worried and rightfully so about concussions, but what happens when there are no referees.

Your last line is exactly what our associations tell organizations when they gripe about what we charge. They want to have all these games, which have to have officials, yet they do not want to play for them. In reality, officials could charge a lot more, because they are not playing without us. Supply and demand basics right there.

Even with all the negatives, I still enjoy it. For one, it motivates me to stay in decent shape, with a kid about to go to college and a hs fr the extra money is always helpful, and I have met some good friends in the associations as well.

[hogsanity]

That would definitely get us the same quality as what we have now.


What do the coaches do when football is over, what do the facilities guys do..

this is a crazy argument... hone there skills and get better every day.. like everyone else.

grade each game, each others calls, learn how they mess up and become more consistent.
argue over best inerpretations of rules, and come to consensus..

there are a million ways to get better at your job, if you're not tied down to a full time job
where you can't spend time to get better...

and the coaches get paid how much to do this full time? Also, their jobs are year round with recruiting, designing offenses and defenses, schmoozing with fans and donors, etc.

[UAfanatic]

and the coaches get paid how much to do this full time? Also, their jobs are year round with recruiting, designing offenses and defenses, schmoozing with fans and donors, etc.

So you can't see that this could be a full time job?

It could be huge in training and preparation and learning to be consistent.

That is the point, full time would make the job of being a referee a career, and not a hobby.
The SEC spends a mint to have everything else the best that it can be in the football world.

But somehow it's to expensive to have professional game caretakers..

It blows my mind how anyone would not believe that if you have the ability and money to make the game better
that you shouldn't try.

[hogsanity]

So you can't see that this could be a full time job?

It could be huge in training and preparation and learning to be consistent.

That is the point, full time would make the job of being a referee a career, and not a hobby.
The SEC spends a mint to have everything else the best that it can be in the football world.

But somehow it's to expensive to have professional game caretakers..

It blows my mind how anyone would not believe that if you have the ability and money to make the game better
that you shouldn't try.

I have never said the sec could not afford it, although the costs would be much higher than most here seem to think, but I am talking about college football as a whole. 

[311Hog]

So you can't see that this could be a full time job?

It could be huge in training and preparation and learning to be consistent.

That is the point, full time would make the job of being a referee a career, and not a hobby.
The SEC spends a mint to have everything else the best that it can be in the football world.

But somehow it's to expensive to have professional game caretakers..

It blows my mind how anyone would not believe that if you have the ability and money to make the game better
that you shouldn't try.

This is exactly my point, but i do also know that there is an "under the table" aspect to refereeing in that some refs are a tight circle, and actually prefer the method of payment for their services and the "short term non committed nature of it" is what is appealing.

I think both can exist in the same space, i think they will have to at some point.

[hogsanity]

OK, it COULD be a full time job for a few crews, but not the vast majority of officials. Just look at baseball, the majority of professional umpires earn less than 40K ( in the lowest pro leagues 25k or less ) and these are professional umpires, this is their job.

I am not saying it wont happen in football. What I am saying is there is a lot more to it than just paying guys enough money.

[UAfanatic]

OK, it COULD be a full time job for a few crews, but not the vast majority of officials. Just look at baseball, the majority of professional umpires earn less than 40K ( in the lowest pro leagues 25k or less ) and these are professional umpires, this is their job.

I am not saying it wont happen in football. What I am saying is there is a lot more to it than just paying guys enough money.

You have so many more games and so many more crews in baseball, still they should hold the value of the
managers of the game as higher..

But I guess if they got paid a decent percentage based on their value and impact of the game,
people would be even madder at them if they made good money.

Still better.. is better.