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Buyout set at $11.935m

Started by ricepig, January 30, 2018, 04:29:44 pm

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010HogFan

Quote from: Sivad on January 30, 2018, 07:09:37 pm
A hell of a lot of money to make a failed attempt to hire Gus Malzahn and then settle for a coach that has never been to a bowl game and has a losing record.

C O N T E X T

oldhawg

Don't know what happened behind the scenes, maybe Long was the architect for the buyout or maybe he just went along with it.  Regardless, a responsible CEO should have balked at such a hefty buyout for a mediocre coach, at least until such coach had proven his worth as demonstrated  by the football team's above average performance for a couple of years.

IMO, Long accomplished major initiatives in facilities improvement in the athletic department, but missed the boat in public relations, and gets at best an average mark for many of his personnel hires, especially coaches.  Was surprised that he was fired, but glad that he is gone.   

 

010HogFan

Quote from: oldhawg on February 01, 2018, 09:11:27 am
Don't know what happened behind the scenes, maybe Long was the architect for the buyout or maybe he just went along with it.  Regardless, a responsible CEO should have balked at such a hefty buyout for a mediocre coach, at least until such coach had proven his worth as demonstrated  by the football team's above average performance for a couple of years.

IMO, Long accomplished major initiatives in facilities improvement in the athletic department, but missed the boat in public relations, and gets at best an average mark for many of his personnel hires, especially coaches.  Was surprised that he was fired, but glad that he is gone.   

While everyone was excited about the landmark victories of the Bielema Era (the back to back shutouts and the bowl win over Texas)...this shouldn't have been anywhere NEAR enough grounds to give this coach such an insurmountable figure of a buyout...much less an extension. It is way more ludicrous than the one they just gave Mike Anderson, which is only kind of ludicrous.

Grizzlyfan

Quote from: hogcards on January 31, 2018, 02:18:47 pm
No it's not.  Are you honestly claiming this clown (Long) didn't know of his buyout?

It was negotiated through the foundation without his knowledge?
Of course he knew.  As did the BOT and Varady at the foundation.  And probably everybody else at the foundation.  This buyout is no different than most every contract buyout provision in P5 football.  Especially if you are hiring a p5 coach to move to another p5 school.  Which rarely happens.

I Am Smart

Quote from: Grizzlyfan on February 01, 2018, 09:42:44 am
Of course he knew.  As did the BOT and Varady at the foundation.  And probably everybody else at the foundation.  This buyout is no different than most every contract buyout provision in P5 football.  Especially if you are hiring a p5 coach to move to another p5 school.  Which rarely happens.

No way that any of the others you listed were involved. It was handled by Long,and Long alone. Just ask Hogcards
"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump

steveaustin69

Quote from: I Am Smart on February 01, 2018, 09:53:49 am
No way that any of the others you listed were involved. It was handled by Long,and Long alone. Just ask Hogcards

Can't argue with this

Razorbackers

Quote from: I Am Smart on February 01, 2018, 09:53:49 am
No way that any of the others you listed were involved. It was handled by Long,and Long alone. Just ask Hogcards

Fun fact: The contract was signed when Long lost a fiddle competition to a UGA fan.

RME

Quote from: Razorbackers on February 01, 2018, 09:59:15 am
Fun fact: The contract was signed when Long lost a fiddle competition to a UGA fan.

"Jeffie Went Down to Georgia," the not-so-anticipated new single from the new HogCards album, "Tinfoil Hat Blues."

hogcards

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 08:33:30 am



Still failing to see definitive proof where Long was "the main conspirator." Without editing the Wikipedia page that you linked, can you show me where I'm missing the language that says he was "the main conspirator?"

You're pretty bad at backing up an argument. You should try not doing that anymore.

What was he (Long) responsible for while he was here?

Are you insinuating he wasn't aware of the amount of the buyout?
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

steveaustin69

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 11:35:35 am
What was he (Long) responsible for while he was here?

Are you insinuating he wasn't aware of the amount of the buyout?

Quote from: Grizzlyfan on February 01, 2018, 09:42:44 am
Of course he knew.  As did the BOT and Varady at the foundation.  And probably everybody else at the foundation.  This buyout is no different than most every contract buyout provision in P5 football.  Especially if you are hiring a p5 coach to move to another p5 school.  Which rarely happens.

You are bad at reading.

hogcards

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 11:37:16 am
You are bad at reading.

So he (Long) knew of Bielema's buyout, but he couldn't prevent it?
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

I Am Smart

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 11:35:35 am
What was he (Long) responsible for while he was here?

Are you insinuating he wasn't aware of the amount of the buyout?

Not one person has said that!

You claimed he was the only one responsible for the contract(Not the Foundation, the BOT, or anyone else), which was the reason for the argument.
"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump

hogcards

Quote from: I Am Smart on February 01, 2018, 11:39:36 am
Not one person has said that!

You claimed he was the only one responsible for the contract(Not the Foundation, the BOT, or anyone else), which was the reason for the argument.

Who has the final say so in that contract?

...and no I said he was main person involved.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

 

steveaustin69

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 11:39:14 am
So he (Long) knew of Bielema's buyout, but he couldn't prevent it?

Yes, he (Long) knew of his (Bielema) buyout, but he (Long) was not the "main conspirator." As discussed, quite a few people (BoT, Foundation) had to sign off on the decision to give him (Bielema) a contract extension.

Insinuating he (Long) acted maliciously and intentionally detrimental to the university by giving him (Bielema) a contract extension is ridiculous.

RME

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 11:35:35 am
What was he (Long) responsible for while he was here?

Are you insinuating he wasn't aware of the amount of the buyout?

Being an antagonist isn't your strong suit. I legitimately never insinuated Long wasn't aware of the amount of the buyout. Of course he was aware of it. What a ridiculous statement to make.

You never said Long was merely aware. You said he was "the main conspirator."

You also clearly don't understand how markets work. Extreme buyouts and contract extensions are the norm now. Not saying they should be, but that's the way the world is. Matthew Stafford was the highest paid player in the NFL last year. 0-3 career record in the playoffs. Derek Carr was something like the 3rd highest paid. His huge extension came after just 3 years in the league and an 0-1 career playoff record.

Learn to look at things outside of Arkansas.

If you think that's exclusive to Arkansas, Bielema, and Long, then I can't help you. Well, no one can. But you get my point. Or maybe you don't.

hogcards

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 11:43:58 am
Yes, he (Long) knew of his (Bielema) buyout, but he (Long) was not the "main conspirator." As discussed, quite a few people (BoT, Foundation) had to sign off on the decision to give him (Bielema) a contract extension.

Insinuating he (Long) acted maliciously and intentionally detrimental to the university by giving him (Bielema) a contract extension is ridiculous.

You can run cover for him until you're blue in the face, it doesn't conceal the fact that Long essentially handed the moron a brand new contract that included this insane buyout after a mediocre 2015 season.  ...after he failed miserable in 2013 and 2014.

One person had the final say not to do that-Long.  He failed to step up. And if it wasn't malicious as you claim, it was certainly shortsided and senseless.  The BOT didn't do this behind his back.

However, in the wake of the news that Long may have actually wanted to keep Bielema past this season, I tend to believe it was done more intentionally, than Long simply not understating his job.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

steveaustin69

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 11:56:16 am
You can run cover for him until you're blue in the face, it doesn't conceal the fact that Long essentially handed the moron a brand new contract that included this insane buyout after a mediocre 2015 season.  ...after he failed miserable in 2013 and 2014.

One person had the final say not to do that-Long.  He failed to step up. And if it wasn't malicious as you claim, it was certainly shortsided and senseless.  The BOT didn't do this behind his back.

However, in the wake of the news that Long may have actually wanted to keep Bielema past this season, I tend to believe it was done more intentionally, than Long simply not understating his job.

You are a miserable person. I'm not going to entertain your ridiculous arguments any longer. Have a nice life.

hogcards

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 12:00:42 pm
You are a miserable person. I'm not going to entertain your ridiculous arguments any longer. Have a nice life.

Take care kid.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

rude1

I said it at the time it was given, "Dumbest contract ever". You have a football coach under contract who is 10-15 with 2-14 in conference. On what planet does that signal you need to lock this guy down and give him a buyout that inhibits our ability  to fire him? A gross misuse of the programs assets that allowed a star struck AD out to show he could hire his own football coach, give an undeserving football coach a contract raise, extension with hefty buyout on the University's behalf and becacuse of JL national popularity, nobody would give a disenting voice to his insane proposal.

hogcards

Quote from: rude1 on February 01, 2018, 12:32:09 pm
I said it at the time it was given, "Dumbest contract ever". You have a football coach under contract who is 10-15 with 2-14 in conference. On what planet does that signal you need to lock this guy down and give him a buyout that inhibits our ability  to fire him? A gross misuse of the programs assets that allowed a star struck AD out to show he could hire his own football coach, give an undeserving football coach a contract raise, extension with hefty buyout on the University's behalf and becacuse of JL national popularity, nobody would give a disenting voice to his insane proposal.

Yep,

This is why folks need to direct their angst more toward Long than Bielema.  You can't blame him for getting the most money he could.   Bielema and his agent did a great job.  Long and the Razorback Foundation...no.

He's either completely incompetent or deliberately unprincipled.  It's one or the other.
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

Razorbackers

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 12:45:50 pm
Yep,

This is why folks need to direct their angst more toward Long than Bielema.  You can't blame him for getting the most money he could.   Bielema and his agent did a great job.  Long and the Razorback Foundation...no.

He's either completely incompetent or deliberately unprincipled.  It's one or the other.

You guys are so cute.

RME

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 12:45:50 pm
Yep,

This is why folks need to direct their angst more toward Long than Bielema.  You can't blame him for getting the most money he could.   Bielema and his agent did a great job.  Long and the Razorback Foundation...no.

He's either completely incompetent or deliberately unprincipled.  It's one or the other.

Do you still direct angst towards the guy or girl who broke up with you in high school or now that he or she is gone from your life you just move along?

OkieBack

Quote from: twistitup on January 30, 2018, 05:56:52 pm
That's a lot of Titos

So does this mean the University recoups through higher ticket prices?  Dang you BB!!!!  Lol

hoghearted

Some of you make it sound like Long was just a bystander in the contract extension process.
It really is this simple. Unchecked government power leads to corruption, and lack of accountability for it is drastically eroding confidence in our institutions.    aristotle

 

steveaustin69

Quote from: hoghearted on February 01, 2018, 12:56:19 pm
Some of you make it sound like Long was just a bystander in the contract extension process.

Some of you make it sound like Long was a lone wolf, operating without the approval and support of the board and foundation.

OkieBack

Quote from: hoghearted on February 01, 2018, 12:56:19 pm
Some of you make it sound like Long was just a bystander in the contract extension process.

All people have to do is realize Long is no longer with the UofA and that says it all.  Long was as guilty as BB was for taking the d@!* contract.  Of course BB is  now sitting pretty and smiling I'm sure.

OkieBack

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 01:02:21 pm
Some of you make it sound like Long was a lone wolf, operating without the approval and support of the board and foundation.

No, but the rubber stampers don't see the heat quite like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process.

RME

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:04:16 pm
No, but the rubber stampers don't see the heat quite like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process.

Link that Jeff Long wrote the contract or initiated the process? How do you know a Board member or RF member didn't initiate it?

steveaustin69

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:02:25 pm
All people have to do is realize Long is no longer with the UofA and that says it all.  Long was as guilty as BB was for taking the d@!* contract.  Of course BB is  now sitting pretty and smiling I'm sure.

It was a bad contract. A lot of people smarter and more successful than me and I'd reckon you made a bad decision. Long is gone, in part, becasue of that contract. Get over it.

S&W

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 01:05:09 pm
Link that Jeff Long wrote the contract or initiated the process? How do you know a Board member or RF member didn't initiate it?


Because carpetbagger yankee

steveaustin69


RME

Quote from: S&W on February 01, 2018, 01:09:52 pm

Because carpetbagger yankee

150 years later and we still ain't learnt nuthin'  >:(

Busta_Nutt

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 01:06:49 pm
It was a bad contract. A lot of people smarter and more successful than me and I'd reckon you made a bad decision. Long is gone, in part, becasue of that contract. Get over it.

Who's Beca Sue?

OkieBack

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 01:05:09 pm
Link that Jeff Long wrote the contract or initiated the process? How do you know a Board member or RF member didn't initiate it?

I don't.  But if Long wasn't the one mainly responsible then I hope that BOT member who wrote it is gone as well.  I just know if Long wasn't guilty or didn't play a huge hand in it he would still be around. 

I Am Smart

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:18:40 pm
I don't.  But if Long wasn't the one mainly responsible then I hope that BOT member who wrote it is gone as well.  I just know if Long wasn't guilty or didn't play a huge hand in it he would still be around.

What if it was merely the fact that Long was not willing to fire Bielema? Potentially the BOT gave him an ultimatum "Bielema is getting fired, either you do it or you are both gone"?

Also, what if it could have been Long was just the scapegoat for a contract that multiple parties were involved with but didn't want to take responsibility?



"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump

steveaustin69

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:18:40 pm
I don't.  But if Long wasn't the one mainly responsible then I hope that BOT member who wrote it is gone as well.  I just know if Long wasn't guilty or didn't play a huge hand in it he would still be around.

He is gone so maybe lighten up? Just a thought.

Busta_Nutt

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:18:40 pm
I don't.  But if Long wasn't the one mainly responsible then I hope that BOT member who wrote it is gone as well.  I just know if Long wasn't guilty or didn't play a huge hand in it he would still be around.

Jeff Long wrote that contract himself. How do I know this? Because he is also my attorney.

Razorbackers

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:04:16 pm
No, but the rubber stampers don't see the heat quite like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process.

You clearly have zero understanding of how contracts work if you think Long wrote Bielema's contract, or had the rubber stamp for it.

RME

Quote from: Busta_Nutt on February 01, 2018, 01:34:13 pm
Jeff Long wrote that contract himself. How do I know this? Because he is also my attorney.

Bret? That you?

hogcards

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 01:05:09 pm
Link that Jeff Long wrote the contract or initiated the process? How do you know a Board member or RF member didn't initiate it?

Why do you think it's a matter of who "initiated the contract"?  Isn't the issue the finalized contract/buyout?
"You have enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."~Winston Churchill

"Racist -- a person who wins an argument with a liberal."~Rush Limbaugh

#lgb
#mediaistheenemy
#stoleninarizona

RME

Quote from: hogcards on February 01, 2018, 01:36:56 pm
Why do you think it's a matter of who "initiated the contract"?  Isn't the issue the finalized contract/buyout?

Read. It's good for you. OkieBack literally said "like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process." That's why I responded to him the way I did.

And sure, there's a chance Long did have the final say. I'm not disputing that. But I don't know for sure, so I'm not gonna state it as fact.

But if you don't realize how many channels that contract would have to go through before it got to him for the final say, then nothing on God's green earth can help you.

OkieBack

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 01:41:15 pm
Read. It's good for you. OkieBack literally said "like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process." That's why I responded to him the way I did.

And sure, there's a chance Long did have the final say. I'm not disputing that. But I don't know for sure, so I'm not gonna state it as fact.

But if you don't realize how many channels that contract would have to go through before it got to him for the final say, then nothing on God's green earth can help you.

No, I understand the lengthy process and the channels that are involved for contract approval.  AD's though are there for a reason and get paid for a reason.  I guess I would ask you if you are the expert, if Long didn't hold the bulk of the responsibility for putting that contract/buyout on the table for BB, then are you implying he was some type of scapegoat for others behind the scene?  Educate me.

I Am Smart

Quote from: Razorbackers on February 01, 2018, 01:34:32 pm
You clearly have zero understanding of how contracts work if you think Long wrote Bielema's contract, or had the rubber stamp for it.

Proven fact: Jeff Long is a writer/attorney in his spare time. He took time off from writing children's books about barnyard animals to write a 75 page contract by himself. Submitted it for approval, to himself. Approved it, by himself. Rubber stamped it, all alone. And gave it to Bielema and his attorneys to sign, all in one night.
"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump

hoghearted

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on February 01, 2018, 01:41:15 pm
Read. It's good for you. OkieBack literally said "like the guy who wrote the contract, or at least initiated the process." That's why I responded to him the way I did.

And sure, there's a chance Long did have the final say. I'm not disputing that. But I don't know for sure, so I'm not gonna state it as fact.

But if you don't realize how many channels that contract would have to go through before it got to him for the final say, then nothing on God's green earth can help you.

Much has been made of who initiated it, was the prime mover, or who holds the most responsibility.

Just what is the normal process? Who initiates it? What channels does it go through? Who comes up with the figures? I know attorneys write the contracts, but they are given the parameters by the involved parties. Who, besides the coach and his agent, comes up with those numbers?
It really is this simple. Unchecked government power leads to corruption, and lack of accountability for it is drastically eroding confidence in our institutions.    aristotle

RME

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:50:07 pm
No, I understand the lengthy process and the channels that are involved for contract approval.  AD's though are there for a reason and get paid for a reason.  I guess I would ask you if you are the expert, if Long didn't hold the bulk of the responsibility for putting that contract/buyout on the table for BB, then are you implying he was some type of scapegoat for others behind the scene?  Educate me.

I have no idea what happened, who initiated it, who it went through, how it went down, who had the final say.

Conventional wisdom would say that it went through several people and not just Jeff Long. So many on here seem to think that he was the sole actor in the whole debacle. I do not believe that is the case. If the BOT, the RF, and other PTB in the administration gave Long that much autonomy, then it's as much their fault as it is his.

Again, I have no idea what happened. But I also don't make statements and claim they are facts when I have no proof or substantial evidence to back it up. So much angst is with Long and Long alone, and my problem with that is those people seem to think he was the lone wolf. That's laughable, in my opinion.

The bottom line is this: It's over with. Long and Bielema are gone. Time to move on with our lives and quit griping about people who have no affiliation with the University of Arkansas.

steveaustin69

Quote from: OkieBack on February 01, 2018, 01:50:07 pm
No, I understand the lengthy process and the channels that are involved for contract approval.  AD's though are there for a reason and get paid for a reason.  I guess I would ask you if you are the expert, if Long didn't hold the bulk of the responsibility for putting that contract/buyout on the table for BB, then are you implying he was some type of scapegoat for others behind the scene?  Educate me.

It's certainly possible. Maybe he wouldn't fire Bielema and that coupled with the contract was his ending. We'll never know.

Why are you all worked up about a guy that is gone?  You signing his and Bret's checks?

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: hawgon on January 31, 2018, 09:56:46 am
It will be interesting to see if Bielema includes those NFL offers he claimed to have already received in the report that he is required to submit to the Foundation every six months.

I don't remember reading them as official "offers". To me an offer is when you are told the job is yours and we are sending a contract to you to be signed. I believe it was discussions or inquiries. Could be wrong though.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Busta_Nutt on February 01, 2018, 01:34:13 pm
Jeff Long wrote that contract himself. How do I know this? Because he is also my attorney.

Maybe you're kidding but I don't know of him being an attorney. I do know for a fact the Chairmen of the RF Board is an attorney and a great guy. I doubt ANY AD at any large college "writes" the contracts. They have other people for that.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

I Am Smart

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on February 01, 2018, 01:59:32 pm
Maybe you're kidding but I don't know of him being an attorney. I do know for a fact the Chairmen of the RF Board is an attorney and a great guy.

No way someone other than Long would have been involved. Especially one with a legal background(something that might be helpful when writing contracts)
"Stupid is as stupid does" - Forrest Gump

OkieBack

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 01, 2018, 01:55:39 pm
It's certainly possible. Maybe he wouldn't fire Bielema and that coupled with the contract was his ending. We'll never know.

Why are you all worked up about a guy that is gone?  You signing his and Bret's checks?

I'll buy that.  I'm not really worked up so much as to better my understanding of Long's role.  I get Long had help getting that contract in place for BB.  But it does irk me that $11.935M is being paid to a coach who was mediocre at best.  But like its been said.  They are both gone.  Time to move on.