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I Talked To A Wisconsin Fan

Started by Boss Hog in the Arkansas, November 07, 2017, 08:17:55 am

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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

 I wanted an outside opinion on the job Bielema has done at Arkansas and I wanted to hear it from someone who has experienced Bielema as their head coach. Someone that knew what type of person he is. The obvious choice was a Wisconsin fan. The main thing I asked about was where they thought things went downhill and why the hire hasn't gone as fans hoped. They basically said his mistake was trying to remake Arkansas as another Wisconsin. He started out right away with his "run the ball big offensive line pro style offense" and maybe that just doesn't work at Arkansas. He needed to get the lay of the land, figure out recruiting, what kind of players he has in-state, and build an identity from that. That was the 1st thing he should've done. It was a crucial step in building his foundation here and he didn't do it.
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

jst01

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 07, 2017, 08:17:55 am
I wanted an outside opinion on the job Bielema has done at Arkansas


Did you really need it?

 

The_Iceman

This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

RME

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

Welcome to Hogville, folks.

hawgon

I saw on another board that there are now 8 NFL STARTERS who played on that team.  The incompetence in underachieving the way Bert did with that team was staggering. 

Hog Fan...DOH!

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

CBB talked regularly about "not flinching".  What's he do? He changes philosophies on both sides of the ball.



Marshfieldhog

Quote from: hawgon on November 07, 2017, 08:30:38 am
I saw on another board that there are now 8 NFL STARTERS who played on that team.  The incompetence in underachieving the way Bert did with that team was staggering. 

And yet he failed to win at a high rate with 8 NFL guys.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on November 07, 2017, 08:30:03 am
Welcome to Hogville, folks.
LMAO he probably doesn't even think he said anything wrong
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: hawgon on November 07, 2017, 08:30:38 am
I saw on another board that there are now 8 NFL STARTERS who played on that team.  The incompetence in underachieving the way Bert did with that team was staggering.
8 starters and 15 guys that at least made training camps. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you don't have talent (like so many on here say year after year) you wont even make it that far
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

twistitup

I think CBB got desperate after losing nearly his entire staff...he made some bad hires and lost his identity- now he is just a puddle of pudding. He's got nothing....no redshirt program, no depth, no power- he lost his Wisky identity and now is just treading water trying not to drown.
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

hawgon

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 07, 2017, 08:48:50 am
8 starters and 15 guys that at least made training camps. Doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you don't have talent (like so many on here say year after year) you wont even make it that far

I've been a fan for forty years and I can't ever recall that much talent on one Arkansas team.  Can you imagine what Petrino in his seventh year as coach would have done with that team?

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

This. He Rann Oft a pretty good system building OC and OL coach. The length of time it took them to get UGA up and running shows some of the issues that they (UGA) had too. We would most assuredly have been better off with them.
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

jm

His problem is not alignment or formations or philosophy. His team is soft. His team is gutless. He went the wrong direction when he started making players change numbers because they played too rough.
I was excited when he was hired because I believed that a former walk on defensive lineman would bring the kind of toughness that would make people dread playing Arkansas win or lose, but obviously that has turned out to be exactly the opposite.

 

tolerati

I agree that BB lost his identity and under achieved.  He should have stuck with the big lines and dominant running game.  There is nothing wrong with balance if your built for balance.  Right now most people would be hard pressed to say what this team is built to do. Pass? Run? They do neither very well.  There should have been less worry about Alabama and more concern on establishing who Arkansas is.  Let the rest take care of itself.  First you have be competitive then you have a chance to win against Alabama.  Arkansas was competitive on occasions and at least twice could have beaten Alabama except for mistakes/missed opportunities by the Hogs.  Petrino had the Hogs on the cusp.  BB has never had Arkansas in top 25 except on rare occasions.  Arkansas could consistently be a top 25 program with the right coach and leadership.
"Show me a quarterback who isn't cocky, and I'll show you a quarterback who isn't worth a damn." - Darrell Royal

hoglady

Quote from: hawgon on November 07, 2017, 08:52:31 am
I’ve been a fan for forty years and I can’t ever recall that much talent on one Arkansas team.  Can you imagine what Petrino in his seventh year as coach would have done with that team?

But Petrino couldn't recruit or play defense - or so the mantra was at the time.
Petrino left us devoid of talent - or so the mantra goes.

We sure need some of those Petrino defensive players and offensive playmakers about now.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

PonderinHog

He should have red shirted Kirkland and Skipper in year one, when there was no immediate pressure to win.  He blinked and now the chickens have come home to roost.

BearsBisonsBoars


KennyForAD

HEY This is the worst coach in HISTORY.   Everyone knows this now, even him.  What are y'all debating?   The guy made millions doing a job that he has NO IDEA how to do. 

That's all there is to it.

Grizzlyfan

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 07, 2017, 08:17:55 am
I wanted an outside opinion on the job Bielema has done at Arkansas and I wanted to hear it from someone who has experienced Bielema as their head coach. Someone that knew what type of person he is. The obvious choice was a Wisconsin fan. The main thing I asked about was where they thought things went downhill and why the hire hasn't gone as fans hoped. They basically said his mistake was trying to remake Arkansas as another Wisconsin. He started out right away with his "run the ball big offensive line pro style offense" and maybe that just doesn't work at Arkansas. He needed to get the lay of the land, figure out recruiting, what kind of players he has in-state, and build an identity from that. That was the 1st thing he should've done. It was a crucial step in building his foundation here and he didn't do it.
This is pretty much what Alvarez said at the little rock td club.  At Wisconsin they could get all the 320 lb offensive linemen they wanted and they could grind out the game any way they wanted.  The complicating factor for Arkansas in the SEC, according to Alvarez, is speed.  Which Arkansas doesn't have and Wisconsin didn't need.

Piggfoot

Quote from: PonderinHog on November 07, 2017, 09:17:25 am
He should have red shirted Kirkland and Skipper in year one, when there was no immediate pressure to win.  He blinked and now the chickens have come home to roost.
Yes. But would fans have been patient enough when he went winless.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

Deep Shoat

Quote from: hoglady on November 07, 2017, 09:14:45 am
But Petrino couldn't recruit or play defense - or so the mantra was at the time.
Petrino left us devoid of talent - or so the mantra goes.

We sure need some of those Petrino defensive players and offensive playmakers about now.
Why do you people always parrot bull?  That has never been what was actually said, except by the simplistic, 3 word sentence types.

Petrino left us devoid of DEPTH.  Over half of his players never saw the field at Arkansas.  They were reaches and misses and malcontents.  So they either flunked out, got arrested repeatedly, quit when they were expected to compete, or just plain sucked.  The other half were pretty good football players, and if you could avoid injury, they won games. 

As to defense, stop pretending we had some awesome D when Petrino was here.  Out of the great defenders on that 2014 team that you want to attribute to Petrino, you have Flowers and, sort of, Philon.  Petrino turned away Spaight.  He won Flowers, an Arkansas boy, and he lost the recruiting for Philon, but did know to grab him when he fell in his lap.

Petrino also had the good fortune of the best class Arkansas has produced in about 15-20 years and then fell off consistently after that.  The next coach will likely get something similar, because of the depth and talent of the '19 class.
All Gas, No Brakes!

The_Iceman

Quote from: hoglady on November 07, 2017, 09:14:45 am

We sure need some of those Petrino defensive players and offensive playmakers about now.

Yes we do, and we would have been saying the same thing if Petrino remained as coach. He recruited well starting out, but his last couple classes were awful. You are seeing the same thing play out at Louisville.

Charlie Strong was 11-2 and 12-1 his last two seasons at Louisville. Petrino took over a strong program, has a Heisman winner, and his record at Louisville has been:

9-4
8-5
9-4
5-4.....Currently

Petrino struggles with sustaining a program because of his struggles with recruiting...and eventually his attitude wears thin on everyone,  including the coaches in his local recruiting base.

KennyForAD

November 07, 2017, 09:39:11 am #22 Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 01:17:29 pm by KennyForAD
Quote from: Grizzlyfan on November 07, 2017, 09:30:44 am
This is pretty much what Alvarez said at the little rock td club.  At Wisconsin they could get all the 320 lb offensive linemen they wanted and they could grind out the game any way they wanted.  The complicating factor for Arkansas in the SEC, according to Alvarez, is speed.  Which Arkansas doesn't have and Wisconsin didn't need.

... which BB is FAR too stupid to ever understand.

Soooie21

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 07, 2017, 08:17:55 am
I wanted an outside opinion on the job Bielema has done at Arkansas and I wanted to hear it from someone who has experienced Bielema as their head coach. Someone that knew what type of person he is. The obvious choice was a Wisconsin fan. The main thing I asked about was where they thought things went downhill and why the hire hasn't gone as fans hoped. They basically said his mistake was trying to remake Arkansas as another Wisconsin. He started out right away with his "run the ball big offensive line pro style offense" and maybe that just doesn't work at Arkansas. He needed to get the lay of the land, figure out recruiting, what kind of players he has in-state, and build an identity from that. That was the 1st thing he should've done. It was a crucial step in building his foundation here and he didn't do it.

Couldn't agree more...He wants the big road grader linemen. and Enos likes a spread type offense..2 different styles...require 2 types of linemen....

 

PonderinHog

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 07, 2017, 09:35:32 am
Yes. But would fans have been patient enough when he went winless.
Yes, he would have survived year one if he had gone winless.  In fact, he did go winless in the SEC.  Remember?

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: Piggfoot on November 07, 2017, 09:35:32 am
Yes. But would fans have been patient enough when he went winless.
Yes, as long as he didn't go 3-9 again.
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

Grizzlyfan

Quote from: KennyForAD on November 07, 2017, 09:39:11 am
... which BB is FAR to stupid to ever understand.
He certainly hasn't adjusted to that reality, I will grant you that.

swinemaster

Wisconsin fans are great.  I've hung out with many of them in Vegas during March Madness.  They come out in force for their teams.  Great School and good folks.  They love beer and they can't stand "Fat Bret"(their words, not mine).  Even with all of the success they were having, it just seemed to them like Bret was Barry Alvarez's dumbass son in law running the business.  This is the prevailing theme from multiple groups of Wisky fans.  They were insulted that he would leave their program for a place like Arkansas.  But they didn't give a rat's ass that he was gone.  Their record since he has left proves their point.

ballz2thewall

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

agreed.

going back further i remember his first game here. i went and was underwhelmed. watching the OL was not what i expected. yeah; he was new, yada yada yada. but honestly, basically every game since has looked like that game from on OL perspective. nothing to write home about.
The rest of the frog.

RME


AirWarren

Quote from: swinemaster on November 07, 2017, 09:51:44 am
Wisconsin fans are great.  I've hung out with many of them in Vegas during March Madness.  They come out in force for their teams.  Great School and good folks.  They love beer and they can't stand "Fat Bret"(their words, not mine).  Even with all of the success they were having, it just seemed to them like Bret was Barry Alvarez's dumbass son in law running the business.  This is the prevailing theme from multiple groups of Wisky fans.  They were insulted that he would leave their program for a place like Arkansas.  But they didn't give a rat's ass that he was gone.  Their record since he has left proves their point.

Whisky has a good brand of football and they are fun to watch. Overall prestige is about as equal to Arkansas only with more conference titles.

Would love to have a program like them these days....

DeltaBoy

Quote from: AP85 on November 07, 2017, 10:21:59 am
Whisky has a good brand of football and they are fun to watch. Overall prestige is about as equal to Arkansas only with more conference titles.

Would love to have a program like them these days....

I envy Whiskey the past 20 years.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Ironhawg

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

I wonder if part of the reason he didn't stick to his original plan was first, he found out pretty quickly that he couldn't find the big road grader o-linemen in sufficient numbers and second, the speed of defenses in the SEC made it possible to run past those road graders?

Pigstie

The views and opinions of this poster are personal only, and are not one of a professional coach or X Box player.  Beware the Mall Cop.

wildturkey8

Quote from: Deep Shoat on November 07, 2017, 09:37:14 am
Why do you people always parrot bull?  That has never been what was actually said, except by the simplistic, 3 word sentence types.

Petrino left us devoid of DEPTH.  Over half of his players never saw the field at Arkansas.  They were reaches and misses and malcontents.  So they either flunked out, got arrested repeatedly, quit when they were expected to compete, or just plain sucked.  The other half were pretty good football players, and if you could avoid injury, they won games. 

As to defense, stop pretending we had some awesome D when Petrino was here.  Out of the great defenders on that 2014 team that you want to attribute to Petrino, you have Flowers and, sort of, Philon.  Petrino turned away Spaight.  He won Flowers, an Arkansas boy, and he lost the recruiting for Philon, but did know to grab him when he fell in his lap.

Petrino also had the good fortune of the best class Arkansas has produced in about 15-20 years and then fell off consistently after that.  The next coach will likely get something similar, because of the depth and talent of the '19 class.
I don't think Flowers is from Arkansas.

hawg1221

Quote from: wildturkey8 on November 07, 2017, 10:50:54 am
I don't think Flowers is from Arkansas.

No. I think he's from Georgia and we got him to switch his commitment from Georgia Tech to Arkansas right before signing day.

Peter Porker

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 08:27:46 am
This opinion is actually wrong. Bielemas problem is he didn't stick to developing the biggest and baddest offensive line. His lines got soft. Year 3 was our best roster, and his failure as a coach in preparing the team at the beginning of the year cost us. As we saw at the end, that team was talented enough to win 10 games.

Yep, and to the people that say "smashmouth offense don't work", we haven't been that since Enos was hired. How often do we use a fullback to block now? CBB's biggest mistake was changing the offense.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

ipigsooie

What im hearing, like most of CBBs former assistants, Matt Canada does not care for Bret. Apparently CBB was always butting in and taking control of the play calling.  He also said to look for Canada to unleash a special kind of a whooping on our defense this weekend. Itll be like gus only itll be directed at one dude instead of our whole state.

BearsBisonsBoars


code red

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on November 07, 2017, 08:17:55 am
I wanted an outside opinion on the job Bielema has done at Arkansas and I wanted to hear it from someone who has experienced Bielema as their head coach. Someone that knew what type of person he is. The obvious choice was a Wisconsin fan. The main thing I asked about was where they thought things went downhill and why the hire hasn't gone as fans hoped. They basically said his mistake was trying to remake Arkansas as another Wisconsin. He started out right away with his "run the ball big offensive line pro style offense" and maybe that just doesn't work at Arkansas. He needed to get the lay of the land, figure out recruiting, what kind of players he has in-state, and build an identity from that. That was the 1st thing he should've done. It was a crucial step in building his foundation here and he didn't do it.

I been screaming it for years.  "Your not going to out bama...Bama."  CBB fatal error was not going to the spread. 
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

Ex-Trumpet

Quote from: code red on November 07, 2017, 11:35:06 am
I been screaming it for years.  "Your not going to out bama...Bama."  CBB fatal error was not going to the spread. 

Let's be honest, last weekend Hogs didn't even out-bama Coastal Carolina.
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

Peter Porker

Quote from: code red on November 07, 2017, 11:35:06 am
I been screaming it for years.  "Your not going to out bama...Bama."  CBB fatal error was not going to the spread.

The closest we ever got to beating Bama was when we tried to out-bama them. 14-13 .
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Ex-Trumpet

Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

The_Iceman

Quote from: Ironhawg on November 07, 2017, 10:41:52 am
I wonder if part of the reason he didn't stick to his original plan was first, he found out pretty quickly that he couldn't find the big road grader o-linemen in sufficient numbers and second, the speed of defenses in the SEC made it possible to run past those road graders?

Look at the sack numbers with those "road graders." They were out there, he just failed to recruit and develop enough of them. I believe his most recent class is a step in the right direction, but too little too late.

The inability to develop Wallace and Merrick killed us. If you are big and strong on the O-line and can establish the run, it puts you in a lot of 2nd and manageable and 3rd and shorts. It's harder to sack the QB in those instances.

Our offensive philosophy or alignment isn't the problem, it is the O-line. We were competitive against Bama in 2014 and 2015 with a big strong line. We lost that.

Hog Fan...DOH!

Quote from: code red on November 07, 2017, 11:35:06 am
I been screaming it for years.  "Your not going to out bama...Bama."  CBB fatal error was not going to the spread. 

I've always really, really hated that phrase.   You need talent and execution to beat Saban.   I'm not sure it requires any other form of scientific rocketry. 

wildturkey8

Quote from: Hog Fan...DOH! on November 07, 2017, 12:00:42 pm
I've always really, really hated that phrase.   You need talent and execution to beat Saban.   I'm not sure it requires any other form of scientific rocketry. 
It is a terrible mentality.  Why not figure out who WE (Arkansas) are, what we do best and execute it.

Jim Harris

Quote from: twistitup on November 07, 2017, 08:50:17 am
I think CBB got desperate after losing nearly his entire staff...he made some bad hires and lost his identity- now he is just a puddle of pudding. He's got nothing....no redshirt program, no depth, no power- he lost his Wisky identity and now is just treading water trying not to drown.

Arkansas by my count is redshirting at least 13 players from the current freshman class, so I wouldn't say he has no redshirt program. Four of the starting O linemen redshirted at one point (not that it apparently helped much). I agree with the rest of what you said though. They started out soft in 2015 after two years of smash mouth and it cost them at least two victories in the first half of the season, easily winnable games. That's an 11-win season in his third year, which is right on schedule and probably would have enhanced recruiting for the following signing day the next cycle immensely. Those losses to Toledo and Texas Tech were just crunchers on more than just the win-loss record, as it turned out. Hardly anyone outside of the fanbase noticed that Arkansas won six of its last seven and flat out WHIPPED LSU, I don't care if they "had a letdown after Bama" or not.
"We've been trying to build a program on a 7-8 win per season business model .... We upgraded the Business Model." -- John Tyson

Jim Harris

Quote from: hawg1221 on November 07, 2017, 11:00:22 am
No. I think he's from Georgia and we got him to switch his commitment from Georgia Tech to Arkansas right before signing day.

He's from Huntsville, Alabama.
"We've been trying to build a program on a 7-8 win per season business model .... We upgraded the Business Model." -- John Tyson

BearsBisonsBoars

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on November 07, 2017, 11:38:40 am
I love moments like these!!  :)

I'm a man of simple pleasures. But among them, people making simple mistakes while calling others stupid is among the foremost.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: The_Iceman on November 07, 2017, 11:45:08 am
Look at the sack numbers with those "road graders." They were out there, he just failed to recruit and develop enough of them. I believe his most recent class is a step in the right direction, but too little too late.

The inability to develop Wallace and Merrick killed us. If you are big and strong on the O-line and can establish the run, it puts you in a lot of 2nd and manageable and 3rd and shorts. It's harder to sack the QB in those instances.

Our offensive philosophy or alignment isn't the problem, it is the O-line. We were competitive against Bama in 2014 and 2015 with a big strong line. We lost that.
It all starts with philosophy and scheme. We have a situation where the offensive linemen we've recruited don't match what the OC wants to do. Pittman saw the writing on the wall and bolted. People wonder why chaney and pittman follow each other everywhere. Its because the linemen pitmen likes to recruit and the assignments he gives them fit perfectly into Jim Chaneys system. When you have coaches with philosophies/coaching styles that match up, you end up with great teams. See UGA.

Bielema did a poor job at hiring coordinators and position coaches. Spread coordinators and pro style position coaches was never going to work
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.