Babb Be Gone(Catch All)

[sadhogfan]

Qualls 4.6 PPG Freshman year.  Junior year 15.9 PPG, second team all SEC, potential draft pick

Madden 4.2 PPG Sophomore Year.  Lead team in scoring with 12.9 PPG Junior year.

And that's just from our team, I'm sure there's many more cases of people improving and being impact players after not playing much their freshman year or the year before.  And if you look at our team and CMA's teams not a lot of freshman play, but usually have breakout seasons their sophomore and junior years.  Bell, Williams, and Watkins are good examples, all these guys probably played less than Babb their freshman year, and all are key contributors for us now.

And I don't think anybody saying Babb was going to be an All-American.  But with his attributes you can't deny he's a pretty good talent.  I agree with Iceman, I thought he was a guy around the time of his junior year would be a key contributor for us.  This is not the end of the world, and I haven't heard anyone say that, but I know some, including myself would have like to see him stick it out, his time would have come.

There is really no comparison to the way Babb was used this year, and the production which resulted from his playing time, and the roles played by Qualls as a freshman or Madden as a freshman and sophomore. Qualls and Madden played significant minutes, and there is a huge difference between 4-5 ppg and 19 points in a season. There just is.

Bell and Williams were both used about twice as much as Babb was in their freshman seasons. Watkins was, however, used even less.

If you are trying to suggest that Babb could be a "key contributor" in the way that Bell, Williams, and Watkins are "key contributors" I agree: the more common term is "role player".

It was, however, suggested that Babb would be "averaging double figures in points, easy" by his junior season. That sounds less like "role player" and more like "star player". I am questioning that.

[pick_DA_EAGLES]

If he was practicing very well, I bet coach would have played him more. I doubt they just "forgot him" as he sat on the bench. There was a reason he didn't get more playing time.

[-Blu]

There is really no comparison to the way Babb was used this year, and the production which resulted from his playing time, and the roles played by Qualls as a freshman or Madden as a freshman and sophomore. Qualls and Madden played significant minutes, and there is a huge difference between 4-5 ppg and 19 points in a season. There just is.

Bell and Williams were both used about twice as much as Babb was in their freshman seasons. Watkins was, however, used even less.

If you are trying to suggest that Babb could be a "key contributor" in the way that Bell, Williams, and Watkins are "key contributors" I agree: the more common term is "role player".

It was, however, suggested that Babb would be "averaging double figures in points, easy" by his junior season. That sounds less like "role player" and more like "star player". I am questioning that.

I wouldn't say around 10 PPG is a "star player". Mardracus Wade averaged 10.8 PPG his sophomore year, Ricky Scott averaged 9 PPG his sophomore year,  Alandise Harris averaged 9 PPG his junior year, Coty Clarke averaged 9 PPG his senior year.  I wouldn't consider any of those guys star players by any means. And all these guys arguably had rougher starts as freshman than Babb.  Clarke started as JUCO, Harris was a 2 star started at Houston, Scott was injured his entire freshman year, and Wade played sparingly his freshman year.  And those are just examples from our team, I'm sure there's hundreds more throughout the country.  And I can't predict Babb's future, but as I said before with his attributes, if he really commits and wants it, he can end up a pretty good player.

And that's not just my opinion there's several CMA press conferences where he brags on Babb and mentions how well he was doing at practice and how high his B-Ball IQ was.  And he doesn't brag on all players, if they aren't performing or doing well he comes out and says it.

[Nipsey Mussle]

Pretty typical jump ball response.

It's fair to give credit where credit us due, and criticism where it is due.

Losing Babb is a blow, in several different ways.  The staff should be criticized for their mishandling of a very talented young guard with tons of potential.

Now they will scramble to replace him with some JC reach who will contribute maybe one year as a second teamer, and won't ever bring to the table half what Babb did.

But go ahead and act as if it's no big deal.

I'm really torn on the following question:

Who knows more about Nick Babb's basketball ability? A guy on Hogville who watched him play a total of 125 minutes this season or Mike Anderson who saw Babb in practice for thousands of hours...... I just can't reconcile that one. It's a 50/50 toss up.

Hell, I flipped a coin and it landed on Mike Anderson knowing more about Babb than you do.

[Ham Sandwich]

Pretty typical jump ball response.

It's fair to give credit where credit us due, and criticism where it is due.

Losing Babb is a blow, in several different ways.  The staff should be criticized for their mishandling of a very talented young guard with tons of potential.

Now they will scramble to replace him with some JC reach who will contribute maybe one year as a second teamer, and won't ever bring to the table half what Babb did.

But go ahead and act as if it's no big deal.

Don't jump, it'll be alright. This happens in every program. I like the guys we are looking at to be honest. I think this could mean Qualls is coming back too.

[Randy Johnson]

it is still creepy

[Pork Twain]

I'm really torn on the following question:

Who knows more about Nick Babb's basketball ability? A guy on Hogville who watched him play a total of 125 minutes this season or Mike Anderson who saw Babb in practice for thousands of hours...... I just can't reconcile that one. It's a 50/50 toss up.

Hell, I flipped a coin and it landed on Mike Anderson knowing more about Babb than you do.

Come on...you have been around long enough to know that a majority of Hogville posters know far more than our coaches.

[RazorPiggie]

"As I said, not surprised.  Kinda expected it, after that conversation.  But I didn't want to report any of this, lest a whirlwind of rumor pop up around the kid.  Better to just let it play out."


?

He didn't want to say anything right then since it was in the middle of the season.

[RazorPiggie]

I'm hopefully we can go out this late and find a player like Durham out of JUCO.

[Big Nasty 34]

It is interesting how CMA bragged him up so much then never really played him. I mean even Dee Wagner got a start his freshman year after impressing coach.

[elksnort]

What happened to waiting until it's your time to get playing time? It's a selfish world we live in. 

[navyhog24]

I'm hopefully we can go out this late and find a player like Durham out of JUCO.

Hopefully someone much better skilled. Durham should be the one leaving, not Babb

[poloprince]

Hindsight is always 20/20

[RazorPiggie]

Hopefully someone much better skilled. Durham should be the one leaving, not Babb

I was being slightly sarcastic. I'm not a fan of getting these guys late in the process because we've missed on some of our top HS targets. In my opinion we've wasted too many scholarships in the past 4 years.

[bigred223]

Mike mentioned several times throughout the season how well Babb had been performing in practice. He kept saying we may be seeing more of him, and then it never happened. He finally gives him a shot against georgia and the guy comes in and plays great. Then he never sees the floor again. This was a mistake by the staff.

[LA Football fan]

Babb transferring is a problem, a BIG problem.   No matter how you slice it, we need our highly talented recruits to stick for 4 years to compete with the Kentucky's and UNC's of the world.   You cannot replace his experience gained this year by running out and recruiting JUCO's year after year.  He had all the talent in the world and you could see flashes of it every time he got in the game. 

MA will not get over the hump in getting past the sweet sixteen if he cannot keep his players here for 3-4 years.  We aren't Kentucky where we can go out and replace our losses with talent just as good or better every year.  Losing a Durham or Miles would not hurt near as much as this.  We just lost a 3 year player that would have been very effective in this system for the remainder of his time here.  MA has to get these first year players enough playing time to at least keep them interested enough in sticking.   There was absolutely no reason Babb couldn't have gotten more playing time this year, especially early in the year.   

[Pork Twain]

Babb transferring is a problem, a BIG problem.   No matter how you slice it, we need our highly talented recruits to stick for 4 years to compete with the Kentucky's and UNC's of the world.   You cannot replace his experience gained this year by running out and recruiting JUCO's year after year.  He had all the talent in the world and you could see flashes of it every time he got in the game. 

MA will not get over the hump in getting past the sweet sixteen if he cannot keep his players here for 3-4 years.  We aren't Kentucky where we can go out and replace our losses with talent just as good or better every year.  Losing a Durham or Miles would not hurt near as much as this.  We just lost a 3 year player that would have been very effective in this system for the remainder of his time here.  MA has to get these first year players enough playing time to at least keep them interested enough in sticking.   There was absolutely no reason Babb couldn't have gotten more playing time this year, especially early in the year.   

Maybe a little over-dramatic.

[RazorPiggie]

Maybe a little over-dramatic.

Probably a little. It's not like kid was going out there playing 10 mins a game.

[jry04]

Babb transferring is a problem, a BIG problem.   No matter how you slice it, we need our highly talented recruits to stick for 4 years to compete with the Kentucky's and UNC's of the world.   You cannot replace his experience gained this year by running out and recruiting JUCO's year after year.  He had all the talent in the world and you could see flashes of it every time he got in the game. 

MA will not get over the hump in getting past the sweet sixteen if he cannot keep his players here for 3-4 years.  We aren't Kentucky where we can go out and replace our losses with talent just as good or better every year.  Losing a Durham or Miles would not hurt near as much as this.  We just lost a 3 year player that would have been very effective in this system for the remainder of his time here.  MA has to get these first year players enough playing time to at least keep them interested enough in sticking.   There was absolutely no reason Babb couldn't have gotten more playing time this year, especially early in the year.   

You are blowing this way out of proportion. This is actually a pretty ridiculous post. I think Babb was going to be a solid player, but the guy wasn't exactly highly recruited. If Portis and Qualls announce that they are coming back, you will have wasted all of your time typing this post. This team is not, and never was going to be about Babb. I wish him the best of luck, but if we get Frazier, I Would say he can contribute as much next year as Babb would. The two guys we need to be the most concerned with are Qualls and Portis, not a someone who would play 10-15 minutes per game next season.

[LA Football fan]

It is not about how much he played this year but how much he would have played going forward.  Now you have to go out and recruit his replacement,  start from scratch and get them up to speed on the system Mike plays and figure out their role with the team.  All that time invested in him this year is basically a schollie that was completely wasted.  We do not have the luxury of wasting schollies on players.   His loss puts this program back a year just in having to find another player to fill the role he would have filled next year.  Not a program killer, but we need players with his talent set to stick for 4 years.   Our depth for next year just took a hit. 

[Biggus Piggus]

It is not about how much he played this year but how much he would have played going forward.  Now you have to go out and recruit his replacement,  start from scratch and get them up to speed on the system Mike plays and figure out their role with the team.  All that time invested in him this year is basically a schollie that was completely wasted.  We do not have the luxury of wasting schollies on players.   His loss puts this program back a year just in having to find another player to fill the role he would have filled next year.  Not a program killer, but we need players with his talent set to stick for 4 years.   Our depth for next year just took a hit. 

It is a legitimate concern. Arkansas wasted roster space and time on a useless point guard not that long ago. Now it wasted space and time on another, this time talented, guard. And what position has MA struggled to get right ever since he took the Arkansas job? Guard.

Now the notion that Arkansas can't sustain any wasted scholarships is wrong, too. Nobody plays all 13. Taking half of forever to get the backcourt right, that's bad. But they don't have to be perfect in recruiting, either.

[jry04]

It is not about how much he played this year but how much he would have played going forward.  Now you have to go out and recruit his replacement,  start from scratch and get them up to speed on the system Mike plays and figure out their role with the team.  All that time invested in him this year is basically a schollie that was completely wasted.  We do not have the luxury of wasting schollies on players.   His loss puts this program back a year just in having to find another player to fill the role he would have filled next year.  Not a program killer, but we need players with his talent set to stick for 4 years.   Our depth for next year just took a hit. 

You are acting as if he was a can't miss player, that was highly recruited with big time offers. I do not want to make the kid out to not be a good player, because I think he will be a solid player. I wish he would have stayed. However, I honestly believe someone like Frazier could be just as good, if not better than Babb would have been next season. Losing a player sucks, especially if they have the potential Babb has. However, bringing in another play with as much or more potential will not make it as big of a loss.

[PorkRinds]

I think the coaching staff just forgot about Babb as the season progressed.  He got inserted into a game late in the season and, considering he was probably rusty from lack of playing time, performed very well.  That was it.  He didn't get in the rest of the season.

Why?  He played a very good game when he was given the chance, but nothing came of it.

Anderson made it out to be that he was leaving because he is homesick.  I think that is coveryourrearend coach speak.  He is leaving because it wasn't made clear to him by the coaches where he fit in.  We will regret this someday.

Actually his exact words said he was leaving for more playing time. 

[jry04]

It is a legitimate concern. Arkansas wasted roster space and time on a useless point guard not that long ago. Now it wasted space and time on another, this time talented, guard. And what position has MA struggled to get right ever since he took the Arkansas job? Guard.

Now the notion that Arkansas can't sustain any wasted scholarships is wrong, too. Nobody plays all 13. Taking half of forever to get the backcourt right, that's bad. But they don't have to be perfect in recruiting, either.

To be fair, it appears that we will have two really good guards in Beard and Whitt. 

[PorkRinds]

If he was practicing very well, I bet coach would have played him more. I doubt they just "forgot him" as he sat on the bench. There was a reason he didn't get more playing time.

This.  He saw the handwriting on the wall that we have guards that are ahead of him, with Whitt coming in...

[Dominicanhog]

It just gives Mike a chance to bring in another player.... and I don't think it's the last one... We'll sign a big and a 6'6 swingman.. one may be juco... 

Makes for a more exciting recruiting season, a lot of big time talent remains unsigned...

[azhog10]

This is a big loss to the program. Nick Babb is better than Manny Watkins any day of the week! Nick did not play and Manny played a lot of ball. I really believed Nick would be a big producer next season. I hate that he is no longer a hog.

Manny earned his minutes. I liked Babb, but Manny did some things for this team no one else would do. When Babb did get in he was hesitant at times. He would shoot the ball, but only if the shot clock seemed to get low. Watkins was aggressive on offense taking the ball to the rim if he had the opporunity, but he also played fantastic defense. Babe just didn't have that edge about him when he played. I still think if he would have stayed he would be looking at more playing time with Madden gone and Bell going through his many funks. Oh well, after the SMU game I saw the writing on the wall with him. Larry Brown did a great job of recruiting him while he was at Arkansas.

[azhog10]

Qualls 4.6 PPG Freshman year.  Junior year 15.9 PPG, second team all SEC, potential draft pick

Madden 4.2 PPG Sophomore Year.  Lead team in scoring with 12.9 PPG Junior year.

And that's just from our team, I'm sure there's many more cases of people improving and being impact players after not playing much their freshman year or the year before.  And if you look at our team and CMA's teams not a lot of freshman play, but usually have breakout seasons their sophomore and junior years.  Bell, Williams, and Watkins are good examples, all these guys probably played less than Babb their freshman year, and all are key contributors for us now.

And I don't think anybody saying Babb was going to be an All-American.  But with his attributes you can't deny he's a pretty good talent.  I agree with Iceman, I thought he was a guy around the time of his junior year would be a key contributor for us.  This is not the end of the world, and I haven't heard anyone say that, but I know some, including myself would have like to see him stick it out, his time would have come.

Minutes played is essential to one's development. If you think Qualls, Madden, and Babb all have comparible Freshman seasons you are kidding yourself.

[AWHAWG]

Minutes played is essential to one's development. If you think Qualls, Madden, and Babb all have comparible Freshman seasons you are kidding yourself.

Was that SMU's Coach that said something to the effect that we had a player that could start for him? Was he tampering with our players. 😏

[jry04]

It just gives Mike a chance to bring in another player.... and I don't think it's the last one... We'll sign a big and a 6'6 swingman.. one may be juco... 

Makes for a more exciting recruiting season, a lot of big time talent remains unsigned...

You may be right, but the only way we sign 2 more is if 1 more leaves.

[AWHAWG]

Could this be a sign that he knows Qualls is coming back?

could be a sign that Dusty the zone bustee is lighting it up in practice and whit coming in will be an impact player. Throw in Qualls  coming back, where would he play?

[Hawg Red]

Why would any Razorback fan have any kind of opinion about him going to a certain school? What does it matter? Why do you some of you want to block him from going to a particular school? What does that accomplish?

[Hogimus Prime]

Was that SMU's Coach that said something to the effect that we had a player that could start for him? Was he tampering with our players. 😏

Brown said something along those lines, but nothing would be done to Brown.  He's been around for a longtime and a legend and what he said is 'just Larry being Larry'

[Hawg Red]

Brown said something along those lines, but nothing would be done to Brown.  He's been around for a longtime and a legend and what he said is 'just Larry being Larry'

Actually, he didn't say anything like that.

He said that they recruited Nick Babb but he came here and he doesn't even play for us. He was complimenting our depth, not tampering.

[Hogimus Prime]

Actually, he didn't say anything like that.

He said that they recruited Nick Babb but he came here and he doesn't even play for us. He was complimenting our depth, not tampering.

True but even he did nothing would be done

[TomBigBeeHog]

Actually, he didn't say anything like that.

He said that they recruited Nick Babb but he came here and he doesn't even play for us. He was complimenting our depth, not tampering.

Depends on how you interpret his comments. I certainly didn't like it at the time because I thought those words might plant a seed in the mind of the Babb's. If this was the NBA Larry would have been fined.

[Hawg Red]

Depends on how you interpret his comments. I certainly didn't like it at the time because I thought those words might plant a seed in the mind of the Babb's. If this was the NBA Larry would have been fined.

I don't know why anyone would really care about that. He picked Arkansas over Larry Brown to start with. If a little comment like that is enough to get him to want to leave, then we don't want someone with that little heart anyway. But I don't think that comment had anything to do with his decision.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Finally, someone who gets it.

[Hawg Red]

I may be a fool, but I think this means Qualls is coming back. If Qualls isn't coming back, you'd have to think more minutes opened up for Babb at 6'5.

[TomBigBeeHog]

I don't know why anyone would really care about that. He picked Arkansas over Larry Brown to start with. If a little comment like that is enough to get him to want to leave, then we don't want someone with that little heart anyway. But I don't think that comment had anything to do with his decision.

If he goes to SMU then that will only make it seem worse.

[Hogimus Prime]

Hopefully MA can get a true SF to play behind Qualls next year and then start the year after.

[PorkRinds]

I may be a fool, but I think this means Qualls is coming back. If Qualls isn't coming back, you'd have to think more minutes opened up for Babb at 6'5.

Agreed.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

You may be right, but the only way we sign 2 more is if 1 more leaves.

Someone said I was crazy when I said a scholarship would open up. Too bad I was right. Looks like I knew something from.inside the program mall cop. I would have prefered some other players on This roster to transfer. I saw the upside in Babb but he is gone now. I wish him well and I was right on the extra scholarship opening up. 

[HF#1]

We are losing a good player.  In limited minutes he showed he could play.  This one really baffles me.  Especially considering that our coaches seem to think JaCorey Williams brings anything to the table.

[Pork Twain]

I am sure he could have developed into a solid player but MA has played enough young guys for me to know, that was not the only reason he was not playing.  Our coaches, which obviously got to see him much less than we did, saw something that caused them to not have him on the floor.

To be honest he was only a 3* with three offers other than us (Creighton, Oral Roberts and Wichita St).  People are acting like he was a 4/5* that we beat Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc for.

[Hawg Red]

If he goes to SMU then that will only make it seem worse.

To each his own, I guess. Personally, if a kid doesn't want to be a Hog any longer, I say let him go wherever he wants.

[Hawg Red]

I am sure he could have developed into a solid player but MA has played enough young guys for me to know, that was not the only reason he was not playing. 

To be honest he was only a 3* with three offers other than us (Creighton, Oral Roberts and Wichita St).  People are acting like he was a 4/5* that we beat Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc for.

Not sure where you got that info. Larry Brown openly admitted that SMU offered, and his final 3 was Arkansas, SMU, and Gonzaga. A&M was also a candidate.

[RazorPiggie]

It just gives Mike a chance to bring in another player.... and I don't think it's the last one... We'll sign a big and a 6'6 swingman.. one may be juco... 

Makes for a more exciting recruiting season, a lot of big time talent remains unsigned...

What other highly rated HS kids are we in on outside of Allen?

[TheRazorbackGuy]

To each his own, I guess. Personally, if a kid doesn't want to be a Hog any longer, I say let him go wherever he wants.

Doesn't our signed letters exclude them from going to another SEC school?

[HF#1]

I am sure he could have developed into a solid player but MA has played enough young guys for me to know, that was not the only reason he was not playing.  Our coaches, which obviously got to see him much less than we did, saw something that caused them to not have him on the floor.

To be honest he was only a 3* with three offers other than us (Creighton, Oral Roberts and Wichita St).  People are acting like he was a 4/5* that we beat Duke, Kentucky, UNC, etc for.

He offered more than JaCorey turnover Williams does.