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Game 1 NLCS highlights on jumbo-tron?

Started by popcornhog, October 07, 2014, 11:41:08 pm

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popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 03:25:27 pm #150
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 02:57:07 pm
No, the parameters of that bubble are set by the behavior of Cardinals fans.   Sure, there are respectful, decent Cardinals fans.   I feel a tiny bit bad for those people.

If you can't recognize that the Cardinals receive disproportionate coverage here, believe there is an entitled link to Arkansas sports, or that the Cardinals hold any special place, then you are inside the bubble.

It really is that simple.

Why do you think that the Cardinals get disproportionate coverage in Arkansas? It's because there are more Cardinal fans in Arkansas than there are fans of other teams.
WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 03:29:49 pm #151
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 03:25:27 pm
Why do you think that the Cardinals get disproportionate coverage in Arkansas? It's because there are more Cardinal fans in Arkansas than there are fans of other teams.

It isn't, though.   Cardinal fans make up about a third of baseball fans in Arkansas-- and that's being generous--  but generate way, way, way more than half of the coverage.

Being the biggest segment of a deeply divided state does not make it your state.    Having previously been a bigger segment of the state, does not make it your state.   

The real reason we have disproportionate Cardinal coverage, is the overwhelming concentration of 45+ year old men in sports media.   They grew up in a different era, where the Cardinals had a much larger hold over Arkansas.   
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 04:56:38 pm #152
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 03:29:49 pm
It isn't, though.   Cardinal fans make up about a third of baseball fans in Arkansas-- and that's being generous--  but generate way, way, way more than half of the coverage.

Being the biggest segment of a deeply divided state does not make it your state.    Having previously been a bigger segment of the state, does not make it your state.   

The real reason we have disproportionate Cardinal coverage, is the overwhelming concentration of 45+ year old men in sports media.   They grew up in a different era, where the Cardinals had a much larger hold over Arkansas.   

Does any other mlb team have more than a 1/3 share of mlb fans?

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5814906/6561726

FWIW
WPS

clutch

October 12, 2014, 05:01:13 pm #153
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 02:57:07 pm
No, the parameters of that bubble are set by the behavior of Cardinals fans.   Sure, there are respectful, decent Cardinals fans.   I feel a tiny bit bad for those people.

If you can't recognize that the Cardinals receive disproportionate coverage here, believe there is an entitled link to Arkansas sports, or that the Cardinals hold any special place, then you are inside the bubble.

It really is that simple.


I don't think they are entitled to anything Arkansas sports or believe that most fans feel that way.

I can't really speak on the disproportionate coverage in the rest of the state because all I know is their coverage and following in NEA. There's a strong following here because of the Memphis redbirds and the ability to get to Stl. in a short period of time. There are a pretty good number of braves fans here thanks to TBS, but the cardinals are the dominant fan base in this area.

I wouldn't expect that in NWA or southern Arkansas though. Central is probably a good blend of teams.

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:01:46 pm #154
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 04:56:38 pm
Does any other mlb team have more than a 1/3 share of mlb fans?

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/5814906/6561726

FWIW

No, no other team does-- that still does not justify  the raw amount of coverage the Cardinals get.

And interesting on the link;  it doesn't mention what the breakdown was-- did the Cardinals win over the Cowboys 40-30-30 for others,  or 25-20-15-15-15 over a number of others.

Active self-identification is usually the gold standard; when applied to baseball fans,  the NYT model relies on fans actively choosing to identify with a franchise-- and the Cardinals certainly are underwhelming there.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:03:51 pm #155
Quote from: clutch on October 12, 2014, 05:01:13 pm
I don't think they are entitled to anything Arkansas sports or believe that most fans feel that way.

I can't really speak on the disproportionate coverage in the rest of the state because all I know is their coverage and following in NEA. There's a strong following here because of the Memphis redbirds and the ability to get to Stl. in a short period of time. There are a pretty good number of braves fans here thanks to TBS, but the cardinals are the dominant fan base in this area.

I wouldn't expect that in NWA or southern Arkansas though. Central is probably a good blend of teams.


The very existence of this thread shows that to be untrue.   When called on it,  the OP claimed it was 'misphrased', because it looked bad.

The Cardinals are logically much stronger in both Eastern and Northeastern Arkansas, not only from the proximity of the team (they're the closest MLB team to that part of the state),  but also from the Memphis Redbirds and the continued strength of Cardinals radio in that part of the country.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

clutch

October 12, 2014, 05:09:57 pm #156
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:03:51 pm

The very existence of this thread shows that to be untrue.   When called on it,  the OP claimed it was 'misphrased', because it looked bad.

The Cardinals are logically much stronger in both Eastern and Northeastern Arkansas, not only from the proximity of the team (they're the closest MLB team to that part of the state),  but also from the Memphis Redbirds and the continued strength of Cardinals radio in that part of the country.

No, it really doesn't. Because 1 fan says something doesn't make it true across the board.

I already acknowledged the 2nd paragraph so I'm not sure if you are just agreeing with me or trying to prove a point that I had already acknowledged.

I just don't like the generalization of the fan base. The same argument can be made for any fan base when you get into an area that has a large number of fans for a certain team. Non fans are going to feel that way, when actually the fans of said team are just doing what fans do.

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:11:51 pm #157
Quote from: clutch on October 12, 2014, 05:09:57 pm
No, it really doesn't. Because 1 fan says something doesn't make it true across the board.

I already acknowledged the 2nd paragraph so I'm not sure if you are just agreeing with me or trying to prove a point that I had already acknowledged.

I just don't like the generalization of the fan base. The same argument can be made for any fan base when you get into an area that has a large number of fans for a certain team. Non fans are going to feel that way, when actually the fans of said team are just doing what fans do.

It really does;  it would never occur to other fan bases to make that kind of a demand.    The free pass the OP is given, largely by Cardinal fans, is exactly the issue. There have been a few brave Cardinal souls who have said 'no way', and that's commendable.

Generalizations are, by nature, both imperfect and imprecise- however, this is the easiest and most accurate generalization available in modern sports.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

clutch

October 12, 2014, 05:39:48 pm #158
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:11:51 pm
It really does;  it would never occur to other fan bases to make that kind of a demand.    The free pass the OP is given, largely by Cardinal fans, is exactly the issue. There have been a few brave Cardinal souls who have said 'no way', and that's commendable.

Generalizations are, by nature, both imperfect and imprecise- however, this is the easiest and most accurate generalization available in modern sports.


I think that it would occur to a lot of other fan bases. It doesn't make it right or wrong in this case. Just that fans expect unreasonable things all the time.

There's no way to prove who's right or wrong either way. You think it's only a Cardinals thing, I say you're wrong. I'm not going to to try to prove I'm right in what I think would occur elsewhere because it's dang near impossible. So I'll just agree to disagree with you. It's an opinionated topic that nobody can win on.

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:41:09 pm #159
Quote from: clutch on October 12, 2014, 05:39:48 pm
I think that it would occur to a lot of other fan bases. It doesn't make it right or wrong in this case. Just that fans expect unreasonable things all the time.

There's no way to prove who's right or wrong either way. You think it's only a Cardinals thing, I say you're wrong. I'm not going to to try to prove I'm right in what I think would occur elsewhere because it's dang near impossible. So I'll just agree to disagree with you. It's an opinionated topic that nobody can win on.

I didn't say they were the only ones plagued by bad fans.  I said the Cardinals are the worst about it.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

clutch

October 12, 2014, 05:48:20 pm #160
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:41:09 pm
I didn't say they were the only ones plagued by bad fans.  I said the Cardinals are the worst about it.


I took your "it would never occur to any other fan base" remark as you saying that it would only happen to the Cardinals. That's what I'm saying isn't true. There's fans of other teams and other schools that would say the same thing. It's not exclusive to the Cardinals fans, but to fans in general. Some fan bases worse than others, yes, but still not exclusive.

Rocky&Boarwinkle

October 12, 2014, 05:50:38 pm #161
But see, the problem is that Erie thinks he is right, and no amount of anything is going to dissuade him in his crusade.  There is no other MLB team that has more fans than the cardinals in more than 60% of the state, yet when they get the most media coverage, that is somehow a slight to the teams that have 10% of the fans in an area.  Because Erie says so.

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:51:20 pm #162
Quote from: clutch on October 12, 2014, 05:48:20 pm
I took your "it would never occur to any other fan base" remark as you saying that it would only happen to the Cardinals. That's what I'm saying isn't true. There's fans of other teams and other schools that would say the same thing. It's not exclusive to the Cardinals fans, but to fans in general. Some fan bases worse than others, yes, but still not exclusive.

It largely wouldn't, in any significant or appreciable numbers.    You certainly wouldn't have a thread of pages of pages of people acting like the first position offered was understandable.    I love the Deadspin looks at the Cardinal fan base, because they show the exact same behaviors.

No one circles the wagons around their @#^#$! fans, like the St. Louis Cardinals.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 05:52:34 pm #163
Quote from: Rocky&Boarwinkle on October 12, 2014, 05:50:38 pm
But see, the problem is that Erie thinks he is right, and no amount of anything is going to dissuade him in his crusade.  There is no other MLB team that has more fans than the cardinals in more than 60% of the state, yet when they get the most media coverage, that is somehow a slight to the teams that have 10% of the fans in an area.  Because Erie says so.

No.   Me saying so isn't what makes me right;  the lack of allegiance to the Cardinals is what makes me right.

The Bubble, as evidenced there,  is alive and well.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

clutch

October 12, 2014, 05:56:53 pm #164
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:51:20 pm
It largely wouldn't, in any significant or appreciable numbers.    You certainly wouldn't have a thread of pages of pages of people acting like the first position offered was understandable.    I love the Deadspin looks at the Cardinal fan base, because they show the exact same behaviors.

No one circles the wagons around their @#^#$! fans, like the St. Louis Cardinals.

I'm not even trying to argue that the position is understandable. All I'm saying is that it's not exclusive to this one fan base. You say it is, I say it isn't. That's all there is to it. Neither of us can prove the other wrong. All we can do is make assumptions. And that's exactly what everything in this thread is. Assumptions on both sides.

Rocky&Boarwinkle

October 12, 2014, 07:19:14 pm #165
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:52:34 pm
No.   Me saying so isn't what makes me right;  the lack of allegiance to the Cardinals is what makes me right.

The Bubble, as evidenced there,  is alive and well.
What is sports media supposed to do?  The Cardinals have more fans than any other MLB franchise in a large portion of our state and have very legitimate reasons for that:  Previous minor league affiliation with Little Rock and current minor league affiliation with Memphis and Springfield, Mo.  Springfield is my home viewing area.  They give the Royals lots of coverage too.  Other than those two, they don't cover much else.  Why?  Because it doesn't make any economic sense to do that.

What you call a bubble, most people call economic common sense.

Are you a doctor?  Because I detect a god complex in much of your argument style.

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 07:35:36 pm #166
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 05:03:51 pm

The very existence of this thread shows that to be untrue.   When called on it,  the OP claimed it was 'misphrased', because it looked bad.

The Cardinals are logically much stronger in both Eastern and Northeastern Arkansas, not only from the proximity of the team (they're the closest MLB team to that part of the state),  but also from the Memphis Redbirds and the continued strength of Cardinals radio in that part of the country.

Obviously the OP agreed with your point that the OP's wording was too strong. If Cardinal fans were so arrogant and annoying the OP would've responded, Frank you, etc. right?

WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 07:46:05 pm #167
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 07:35:36 pm
Obviously the OP agreed with your point that the OP's wording was too strong. If Cardinal fans were so arrogant and annoying the OP would've responded, Frank you, etc. right?



Not until it was pointed out and ridiculed, no.   Making excuses for their entitled behavior is normal, though.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 07:53:06 pm #168
Quote from: Rocky&Boarwinkle on October 12, 2014, 07:19:14 pm
What is sports media supposed to do?  The Cardinals have more fans than any other MLB franchise in a large portion of our state and have very legitimate reasons for that:  Previous minor league affiliation with Little Rock and current minor league affiliation with Memphis and Springfield, Mo.  Springfield is my home viewing area.  They give the Royals lots of coverage too.  Other than those two, they don't cover much else.  Why?  Because it doesn't make any economic sense to do that.

What you call a bubble, most people call economic common sense.

Are you a doctor?  Because I detect a god complex in much of your argument style.

Common economic sense doesn't dictate you give 90% of your coverage to a third of the people;  you keep baseball reporting much more generic than what we get, and you tailor it to market--  makes perfect sense to talk Cardinals baseball in the NE part of the state, with a close minor league affiliate;  makes perfect sense to talk Royals baseball in NWA, with the Royals affiliate.

The problem is, that it isn't split coverage, or even a little bit tipped one way coverage-- it is wall to wall Cardinals coverage, with the occasional tidbit about how the other races are shaping up, before returning  to Cardinals baseball.

What you call economically sensible, is a recipe for the decline of ratings-- and there is no coincidence that fewer radio stations in Arkansas are programming in the Cardinals Radio Network, as the decisions are taken out of the hands of people who grew up Cardinals fans,  because the rest of us turn it off rather than listen to the Cardinals.   

We're finally starting to see a resurgence in Royals broadcasts,  and in affiliate broadcasts of the Naturals, etc--  something approaching a more balanced approach.  That's a remarkably good thing, but it lags way behind the movement of the state away from the Cardinals.

You must be a Cardinals fan, because you can't handle the message that the rest of us are dog-tired of the nonsense that constitutes broadcast media coverage of the Cardinals.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 08:07:56 pm #169
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 07:46:05 pm
Not until it was pointed out and ridiculed, no.   Making excuses for their entitled behavior is normal, though.

Did a cardinals fan touch you in a bad place when you were little? I don't even hate Longhorn fans as much as you hate Cardinal fans.

I wanted to see both my two favorite teams play on Saturday and there was no way that I was gonna not go to the Bama game. So I started a thread about it. You called me out for exhibiting a sense if entitlement so I looked at the OP and admitted that it could sound that way. I also explained numerous times that I do not think that the UA should or must show the highlights.

Sometimes when posting a thought from your iPhone you can word something poorly.
WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 08:08:59 pm #170
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 08:07:56 pm
Did a cardinals fan touch you in a bad place when you were little? I don't even hate Longhorn fans as much as you hate Cardinal fans.

I wanted to see both my two favorite teams play on Saturday and there was no way that I was gonna not go to the Bama game. So I started a thread about it. You called me out for exhibiting a sense if entitlement so I looked at the OP and admitted that it could sound that way. I also explained numerous times that I do not think that the UA should or must show the highlights.

Sometimes when posting a thought from your iPhone you can word something poorly.

Nope.  I just despise the Cardinals because of their fans.     They're like a more successful modern Notre Dame.

No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 08:13:28 pm #171
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 08:08:59 pm
Nope.  I just despise the Cardinals because of their fans.     They're like a more successful modern Notre Dame.

Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I absolutely hate that you feel that way.

I'd love to buy you a beer someday and talk baseball. I absolutely do not think that anyone owes Cardinals fans anything.

There is nothing worse than an entitled fan base -- Notre Dame, Texas, and the Yankees come to mind. I would say Alabama, but they've earned it.

Anyway, I really hate that Cardinals fans have given you that impression.
WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 08:16:03 pm #172
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 08:13:28 pm
Maybe I'm overly sensitive, but I absolutely hate that you feel that way.

I'd love to buy you a beer someday and talk baseball. I absolutely do not think that anyone owes Cardinals fans anything.

There is nothing worse than an entitled fan base -- Notre Dame, Texas, and the Yankees come to mind. I would say Alabama, but they've earned it.

Anyway, I really hate that Cardinals fans have given you that impression.

To be fair, there are exceptions;   some of the guys with the UU Show are pretty good about it (Chet himself though, is a die-hard Cardinal fan, and a great bubble-beliver).   

No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 08:41:57 pm #173
I'm not sure exactly how this argument has progressed, and I'm not really wanting to read four pages while trying to watch a game, but it does make sense to provide the lion's share of coverage to the regionally dominant team. Idk what the breakdown is, but if 40% of local fans are Cardinals fans, then does that mean you divvy up the remaining 60% between the 31 other teams to be fair? I guess they could figure out what roughly 2% of the air time for the baseball portion of the sports broadcast was, and then devote a proportional amount of time to each teams fan base.( that's a lot of trouble) I'm sure the Royals and Braves would have more than that, but with a total of ten minutes for an entire sportscast, it makes sense to cover the most popular team with what little time they have allotted for baseball during that ten minutes.

With the recent success of the Royals, their coverage may increase. Whether the coverage continues will be dependent upon how successful they are in the future. The Cardinals are the most successful NL franchise and the closest in proximity, so the preponderance of media coverage here makes sense. ( I do not think however, that MLB scores should be flashed at DWRRS...any of them..updates on other CFB scores are the only scores that should be updated in stadium)

As for the arrogance of all Cardinals fans, that's in the eye of the beholder. My brother claims that I am arrogant Cards fan, however, when the Cubs (his team) beat the Cards, he will call, leave messages, or do whatever hilarious thing he can think of to rub it in. I never say a word. Then when post-season rolls around, he will say " Well I guess you think the Cards are going to the WS again, huh?" I shrug and say maybe. He says "I hate you." What are we supposed to do, lol? Apologize that our favorite team wins a lot?  If we root openly, then that makes us "arrogant."

I can see why the Cards continued winning would annoy non-fans, but if you don't want to watch our local media covering them, there are plenty of other options available for sports information. You could watch ESPN and hear about the Yankees and Sox. It's annoying to not see coverage of your favorite team, but to be fair, the media is going to give the most time to the news that they feel appeals to the biggest audience.
 

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 08:50:40 pm #174
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 08:41:57 pm
I'm not sure exactly how this argument has progressed, and I'm not really wanting to read four pages while trying to watch a game, but it does make sense to provide the lion's share of coverage to the regionally dominant team. Idk what the breakdown is, but if 40% of local fans are Cardinals fans, then does that mean you divvy up the remaining 60% between the 31 other teams to be fair? I guess they could figure out what roughly 2% of the air time for the baseball portion of the sports broadcast was, and then devote a proportional amount of time to each teams fan base.( that's a lot of trouble) I'm sure the Royals and Braves would have more than that, but with a total of ten minutes for an entire sportscast, it makes sense to cover the most popular team with what little time they have allotted for baseball during that ten minutes.

With the recent success of the Royals, their coverage may increase. Whether the coverage continues will be dependent upon how successful they are in the future. The Cardinals are the most successful NL franchise and the closest in proximity, so the preponderance of media coverage here makes sense. ( I do not think however, that MLB scores should be flashed at DWRRS...any of them..updates on other CFB scores are the only scores that should be updated in stadium)

As for the arrogance of all Cardinals fans, that's in the eye of the beholder. My brother claims that I am arrogant Cards fan, however, when the Cubs (his team) beat the Cards, he will call, leave messages, or do whatever hilarious thing he can think of to rub it in. I never say a word. Then when post-season rolls around, he will say " Well I guess you think the Cards are going to the WS again, huh?" I shrug and say maybe. He says "I hate you." What are we supposed to do, lol? Apologize that our favorite team wins a lot?  If we root openly, then that makes us "arrogant."

I can see why the Cards continued winning would annoy non-fans, but if you don't want to watch our local media covering them, there are plenty of other options available for sports information. You could watch ESPN and hear about the Yankees and Sox. It's annoying to not see coverage of your favorite team, but to be fair, the media is going to give the most time to the news that they feel appeals to the biggest audience.

When you represent less than a third (and in most major Arkansas media markets, about a quarter) of all baseball fans,  it makes no sense to give them 90% or more of the coverage.   It'd make more sense, admittedly, if it weren't such a fractional part of the population. 

You cover baseball generically, with attention given to the teams that do well-- that'd still give the Cardinals some really outstanding focus, as they're a very successful franchise.    Even-handedness, with favor to none.   Not all-Cardinals, all the time.

No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 08:59:18 pm #175
Would you advocate equal time for ASU during a local sportscast? Or do you think the Hogs should get more time? All I'm saying is that you play to the majority when it's impossible to please everyone. While 40% doesn't constitute an actual majority ( if 40 is even the correct percentage) when there are 32 teams and 1 team is that much more popular than the others, it's pretty much the same thing. If a sportscast has ten minutes to report the sports, and two minutes is portioned to baseball, you cover the team that interests the most people (and flash the rest of the scores quickly). I wouldn't care if the two minutes ( or whatever it actually is) were split evenly between the Cards and Royals. (Those two teams make the most regional sense)

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:02:58 pm #176
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 08:59:18 pm
Would you advocate equal time for ASU during a local sportscast? Or do you think the Hogs should get more time? All I'm saying is that you play to the majority when it's impossible to please everyone. While 40% doesn't constitute an actual majority ( if 40 is even the correct percentage) when there are 32 teams and 1 team is that much more popular than the others, it's pretty much the same thing. If a sportscast has ten minutes to report the sports, and two minutes is portioned to baseball, you cover the team that interests the most people (and flash the rest of the scores quickly). I wouldn't care if the two minutes ( or whatever it actually is) were split evenly between the Cards and Royals. (Those two teams make the most regional sense)

Actually, people advocating for Cardinals coverage are the ones that are taking the 'More ASU' coverage position;   Arkansas gets a lot of coverage, because it absolutely *dominates*  state-wide.  You are hard pressed to find a single county statewide where the Hogs aren't 65% of the college football fan base.    Fan loyalty, statewide, is somewhere between 2 to 3 times higher than it is for the Cardinals, and constitutes an absolute majority in all but 2 or 3 zip codes.

No.  I don't believe in subsidizing ASU, nor do I believe in subsidizing the Cardinals with undeserved coverage.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 09:07:34 pm #177
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 08:50:40 pm
When you represent less than a third (and in most major Arkansas media markets, about a quarter) of all baseball fans,  it makes no sense to give them 90% or more of the coverage.   It'd make more sense, admittedly, if it weren't such a fractional part of the population. 

You cover baseball generically, with attention given to the teams that do well-- that'd still give the Cardinals some really outstanding focus, as they're a very successful franchise.    Even-handedness, with favor to none.   Not all-Cardinals, all the time.

I get what you're trying to say but you're taking it too far.

If the Cardinals have 30%-40% of fanshare in Arkansas, what would be the #2 overall team in Arkansas? 5%-10% for the Braves or Rangers or Royals maybe? The Cardinals are the only team that a substantial number if people will regularly watch in Arkansas.

You can get mlb at bat for $200/year and get every game of every team. The thing that I always hated in Arkansas was that Cards games were blacked out on mlb at bat if you had an Arkansas ISP. Why? Because mlb.com considers Arkansas to be a Cardinal market.
WPS

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 09:13:11 pm #178
I don't know about "undeserved" lol. Of course fan loyalty for the Hogs is more than it is for the Cards. You're comparing apples to oranges. You compare the Cards popularity to that of other MLB teams when you are a local sports director deciding how to allocate your air time. If you have two minutes for MLB during your sportscast why would you not devote the majority of the allotted time to pleasing your local audience? (Most of whom are either Cards fans or not baseball fans at all)

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:13:47 pm #179
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 09:07:34 pm
I get what you're trying to say but you're taking it too far.

If the Cardinals have 30%-40% of fanshare in Arkansas, what would be the #2 overall team in Arkansas? 5%-10% for the Braves or Rangers or Royals maybe? The Cardinals are the only team that a substantial number if people will regularly watch in Arkansas.

You can get mlb at bat for $200/year and get every game of every team. The thing that I always hated in Arkansas was that Cards games were blacked out on mlb at bat if you had an Arkansas ISP. Why? Because mlb.com considers Arkansas to be a Cardinal market.

The Red Sox and Yankees seem to be around or above 10%, which is why 'cover who is winning' makes the most sense-- a Sports Center like approach to baseball that highlights the best teams in the league, with favor to none.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:15:55 pm #180
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 09:13:11 pm
I don't know about "undeserved" lol. Of course fan loyalty for the Hogs is more than it is for the Cards. You're comparing apples to oranges. You compare the Cards popularity to that of other MLB teams when you are a local sports director deciding how to allocate your air time. If you have two minutes for MLB during your sportscast why would you not devote the majority of the allotted time to pleasing your local audience? (Most of whom are either Cards fans or not baseball fans at all)

Except we see that's not the case, when we look at self-identifying baseball fans--  its not 'most'-- it isn't even a strong plurality.   It is  'more than anyone else, but still a decided minority'.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 09:20:58 pm #181
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:15:55 pm
Except we see that's not the case, when we look at self-identifying baseball fans--  its not 'most'-- it isn't even a strong plurality.   It is  'more than anyone else, but still a decided minority'.

Not really. When there are 32 teams, the number of Cards fans in Arkansas is strong. This isn't like we have two teams and you need 51%.

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 09:23:06 pm #182
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:13:47 pm
The Red Sox and Yankees seem to be around or above 10%, which is why 'cover who is winning' makes the most sense-- a Sports Center like approach to baseball that highlights the best teams in the league, with favor to none.

I'd be fine with that if I lived in Arkansas IF Cardinal games weren't blacked out on mlb at bat. The Cardinals are the only team blacked out in Arkansas to my knowledge, as part of the Cardinal market.
WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:24:00 pm #183
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 09:20:58 pm
Not really. When there are 32 teams, the number of Cards fans in Arkansas is strong. This isn't like we have two teams and you need 51%.

Its strong, but you still have a decided majority who have other rooting interests-- and the Cardinals are in decline, as an overall section of the population.

Eventually, the decline in ratings is going to finish forcing the hands of those who handle Arkansas media.   Thankfully, that will be sooner, rather than later.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 09:27:05 pm #184
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:24:00 pm
Its strong, but you still have a decided majority who have other rooting interests-- and the Cardinals are in decline, as an overall section of the population.

Eventually, the decline in ratings is going to finish forcing the hands of those who handle Arkansas media.   Thankfully, that will be sooner, rather than later.

Erie, how do you explain the black out of Cardinal games on mlb at bat when all 31 other teams are not blacked out?
WPS

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 09:29:34 pm #185
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:24:00 pm
Its strong, but you still have a decided majority who have other rooting interests-- and the Cardinals are in decline, as an overall section of the population.

Eventually, the decline in ratings is going to finish forcing the hands of those who handle Arkansas media.   Thankfully, that will be sooner, rather than later.

Where are you getting your numbers? I tried to look up the percentages and can't find any information.

Dr. Starcs

October 12, 2014, 09:31:05 pm #186
Aren't there only 30 mlb teams?

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:33:02 pm #187
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 09:27:05 pm
Erie, how do you explain the black out of Cardinal games on mlb at bat when all 31 other teams are not blacked out?

Bad blackout rules.  Cardinals fans should have access to the Cardinals games.  Unfortunately, you end up with ridiculous blackout rules that are stuck in 1960 that dictate coverage in all sports-- and worse, it creates jacked up situations where you get teams like the 49ers that need to move for economic reasons, having all kinds of difficulty making what should be an easy transition to new digs, because they're in someone else's 'territory'.

The good news for you Cardinals fans, is that the FCC just hammered the NFL's blackout restrictions 5-0   -- and where the NFL goes, the rest of sports will follow.

\\
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:33:38 pm #188
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 09:29:34 pm
Where are you getting your numbers? I tried to look up the percentages and can't find any information.

A couple of places.    The primary one is a NYT use of self-identifying fans that was originally mentioned by a Cardinals fan upthread.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 09:33:51 pm #189
Quote from: Dr. Starcs on October 12, 2014, 09:31:05 pm
Aren't there only 30 mlb teams?

Yes. My mistake.
WPS

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 09:34:43 pm #190
Quote from: Dr. Starcs on October 12, 2014, 09:31:05 pm
Aren't there only 30 mlb teams?

You are correct. Idk why I had 32 stuck in my head.

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 09:36:02 pm #191
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 09:34:43 pm
You are correct. Idk why I had 32 stuck in my head.

The NFL has 32;  MLB has 29 domestic and one foreign; the NBA has 29 domestic, and one foreign.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 09:37:30 pm #192
Quote from: dacskc on October 12, 2014, 09:34:43 pm
You are correct. Idk why I had 32 stuck in my head.

I was thinking nfl.
WPS

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 09:56:34 pm #193
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:24:00 pm
Its strong, but you still have a decided majority who have other rooting interests-- and the Cardinals are in decline, as an overall section of the population.

Eventually, the decline in ratings is going to finish forcing the hands of those who handle Arkansas media.   Thankfully, that will be sooner, rather than later.

Unfortunately, with baseball popularity decreasing among the young, we all may have to pay for premium channels to see any baseball at all in twenty years or so. We may get "hockeyed." Supposedly, the average age of a baseball fan is 52 (my age exactly). I don't have a problem with the approach you advocate. ( I don't really care for local newscasts in general, TBH) I get most of my MLB news from other sources anyway. From the perspective of older local baseball fans who are largely Cardinals fans, and ( like my older relatives) maybe not too tech savvy, I think there would probably be lots of angry complaints were local stations to change the way they cover MLB. Sadly, in twenty years, there will probably be few fans left to care.

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 10:02:02 pm #194
Quote from: ErieHog on October 12, 2014, 09:33:02 pm
Bad blackout rules.  Cardinals fans should have access to the Cardinals games.  Unfortunately, you end up with ridiculous blackout rules that are stuck in 1960 that dictate coverage in all sports-- and worse, it creates jacked up situations where you get teams like the 49ers that need to move for economic reasons, having all kinds of difficulty making what should be an easy transition to new digs, because they're in someone else's 'territory'.

The good news for you Cardinals fans, is that the FCC just hammered the NFL's blackout restrictions 5-0   -- and where the NFL goes, the rest of sports will follow.

\\

Do you have mlb at bat? As long as your team isn't blacked out, it is absolutely amazing. It's still pretty cool even if you are blacked out.

It's about $200/year which is a way better price than cable TV anyway.
WPS

ErieHog

October 12, 2014, 10:05:10 pm #195
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 10:02:02 pm
Do you have mlb at bat? As long as your team isn't blacked out, it is absolutely amazing. It's still pretty cool even if you are blacked out.

It's about $200/year which is a way better price than cable TV anyway.

Yeah,  I do.   The regional announcers for every team are a mix between terrible and funny.   It'll make you appreciate national broadcast teams-- except, of course, those with Joe Morgan doing games.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 10:07:06 pm #196
Quote from: popcornhog on October 12, 2014, 10:02:02 pm
Do you have mlb at bat? As long as your team isn't blacked out, it is absolutely amazing. It's still pretty cool even if you are blacked out.

It's about $200/year which is a way better price than cable TV anyway.

I have the free version phone app and even that has been a life-saver to me a couple of times when I wasn't able to see games. If I ever decide to dump the satellite, I may opt for that.

clutch

October 12, 2014, 10:58:04 pm #197
They should open up DWRRS and let me watch that Wong homerun on repeat on the jumbo tron for the remainder of the night.

dacskc

October 12, 2014, 10:59:12 pm #198
Hahaha! YES!!

popcornhog

October 12, 2014, 10:59:17 pm #199
Quote from: clutch on October 12, 2014, 10:58:04 pm
They should open up DWRRS and let me watch that Wong homerun on repeat on the jumbo tron for the remainder of the night.

Haha.

+1
WPS
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