NLCS: Giants defeat Cards in 5. Proof that good does not always prevail over evil.

[popcornhog]

I hate to be the "If LaRussa was still managing" guy, but TLR would not have left Shelby in as long as Matheny did last night. It was obvious to me after an inning that he didn't have his best stuff. Also, I will not be the one to ask why is Wacha on the roster if he isn't going to pitch, that poor dead horse has been beaten enough.

Matheny feels he is above reproach with his decision making & I think that is why he irritates me so much.

I'm shocked Shelby hit his last at bat too.

As for Wacha -- tonight could be the night that he pitches, depending how deep Wainright can go. Used a lot of the pen last night.

[jbell96]

Well Matheny took Lackey out too early on Tuesday so he had to make up for it by leaving Shelby in too long last night.

[jrulz83]

Well Matheny took Lackey out too early on Tuesday so he had to make up for it by leaving Shelby in too long last night.

Lol, 3 2/3 innings is too long? I think Larussa would have stuck with him that long too.

It didn't matter what Matheny did last night, nothing worked at all. It was just a meltdown in every phase of the game for this team last night. They had a good run despite their deficiencies in pitching and hitting, I'm ready to see what moves get made this offseason.

The Giants and Royals will be a good series, I just won't be watching it as I have come to the realization that, right now, I hate both of those teams.

[popcornhog]

Lol, 3 2/3 innings is too long? I think Larussa would have stuck with him that long too.

It didn't matter what Matheny did last night, nothing worked at all. It was just a meltdown in every phase of the game for this team last night. They had a good run despite their deficiencies in pitching and hitting, I'm ready to see what moves get made this offseason.

The Giants and Royals will be a good series, I just won't be watching it as I have come to the realization that, right now, I hate both of those teams.

I'll probably go to at least one WS game since I live in KC, but we'll see. I'd for sure cheer for the Royals over the Giants. Nothing against the Giants, but the Royals have become my second favorite team.

[jbell96]

Lol, 3 2/3 innings is too long? I think Larussa would have stuck with him that long too.

It didn't matter what Matheny did last night, nothing worked at all. It was just a meltdown in every phase of the game for this team last night. They had a good run despite their deficiencies in pitching and hitting, I'm ready to see what moves get made this offseason.

The Giants and Royals will be a good series, I just won't be watching it as I have come to the realization that, right now, I hate both of those teams.

Actually yeah, 3 2/3 was too long last night. Remember the 2011 NLCS? Only Chris Carpenter went at least 5 innings in that series. I remember several games in that series where at the slightest hint of trouble Tony would take the starter out, no matter what the inning. I really think Tony would have taken him out when it was 4-2 and Posey up, but he's not, so there is no point to speculate or argue, just sharing my opinion.

If it had been 4-2 in the 6th, Adams is playing back on that grounder, and we concede the run for the out. Then the next ground ball would have been a step on the bag to end the inning.

I agree that the team melted down last night, but you can't deny Matheny has a dubious history of mismanaging the pitching staff.

[jrulz83]

Actually yeah, 3 2/3 was too long last night. Remember the 2011 NLCS? Only Chris Carpenter went at least 5 innings in that series. I remember several games in that series where at the slightest hint of trouble Tony would take the starter out, no matter what the inning. I really think Tony would have taken him out when it was 4-2 and Posey up, but he's not, so there is no point to speculate or argue, just sharing my opinion.

If it had been 4-2 in the 6th, Adams is playing back on that grounder, and we concede the run for the out. Then the next ground ball would have been a step on the bag to end the inning.

I agree that the team melted down last night, but you can't deny Matheny has a dubious history of mismanaging the pitching staff.

It didn't matter what Matheny did, last night was a clusterf--- and was destined to end badly for the Cardinals. Relievers couldn't throw strikes, is that the managers fault? Peralta hit into double plays all night, is that on the manager? Adams having brain farts, putting that one on Matheny?

I'm not giving Matheny a free pass, but a lot of the troubles last night were on player mistakes.

[jbell96]

It didn't matter what Matheny did, last night was a clusterf--- and was destined to end badly for the Cardinals. Relievers couldn't throw strikes, is that the managers fault? Peralta hit into double plays all night, is that on the manager? Adams having brain farts, putting that one on Matheny?

I'm not giving Matheny a free pass, but a lot of the troubles last night were on player mistakes.

Did you read my post at all? The only criticism I had of Matheny last night was for leaving Shelby in too long and noted that it was just my opinion.

In the other Cardinals thread, I made the statement above about him living Shelby in too long, but I also placed blame on Adams for his mental & fielding errors, Peralta for his rally killing double plays, & the pitching staff that somehow forgot how to throw strikes.

The frustration I have with Matheny has been building for the past 3 years so excuse me for second guessing his questionable decision making, especially when it comes to the pitching staff.

[jrulz83]

Did you read my post at all? The only criticism I had of Matheny last night was for leaving Shelby in too long and noted that it was just my opinion.

In the other Cardinals thread, I made the statement above about him living Shelby in too long, but I also placed blame on Adams for his mental & fielding errors, Peralta for his rally killing double plays, & the pitching staff that somehow forgot how to throw strikes.

The frustration I have with Matheny has been building for the past 3 years so excuse me for second guessing his questionable decision making, especially when it comes to the pitching staff.

I did read your post, every last word. I responded to what I saw in here, not what I saw in another thread

I just don't think his decision making was the problem at all last night. It's like blaming offensive coordinators for players fumbling. Has he made bad decisions? Yes he has. Show me a manager who hasn't. He made moves and nobody he put in executed. I just didn't have a problem with what he did in the game last night.

My big concern is the roster, there are two players who they are unwilling, or are unable to play in Molina and Wacha. Why are they on the roster? To me, that's where some bad decision making comes into play.

[popcornhog]

I did read your post, every last word. I responded to what I saw in here, not what I saw in another thread

I just don't think his decision making was the problem at all last night. It's like blaming offensive coordinators for players fumbling. Has he made bad decisions? Yes he has. Show me a manager who hasn't. He made moves and nobody he put in executed. I just didn't have a problem with what he did in the game last night.

My big concern is the roster, there are two players who they are unwilling, or are unable to play in Molina and Wacha. Why are they on the roster? To me, that's where some bad decision making comes into play.

Unwilling? I have no reason to believe that -- especially with Molina. WTH man?

The three biggest complaints I have in this series are:

1) Last night why did Holiday not bunt with runners in 1st and 2nd and no outs (I think in the 1st inning)? That is mind blowing.

2) I'm surprised that Matgeny didn't pinch hit for Shelby in his final at bat last night.

3) Maness could've pitched the 10th in game 3 probably (although I get wanting to have a lead off hit to start the 10th).

#1 is the biggest one to me.

I get keeping Yadi on the roster. If there is any chance that he could come in after AJ hits in the middle of a game and play behind the plate and come out when he has to hit -- or even stay in if it's a bunt situation -- why not?

As for Wacha -- a little more puzzling, I'll admit. But we may well need him in relief work tonight. A lot of guys pitched yesterday. And he'd certainly be a good option in a 12 plus inning game.

[DeltaBoy]

Dang it Cards are just giving this series away!

[jbell96]

I did read your post, every last word. I responded to what I saw in here, not what I saw in another thread

I just don't think his decision making was the problem at all last night. It's like blaming offensive coordinators for players fumbling. Has he made bad decisions? Yes he has. Show me a manager who hasn't. He made moves and nobody he put in executed. I just didn't have a problem with what he did in the game last night.

My big concern is the roster, there are two players who they are unwilling, or are unable to play in Molina and Wacha. Why are they on the roster? To me, that's where some bad decision making comes into play.

Yeah, the decision I disagreed with really didn't play much of a part in the loss last night. Peralta & Adams were easily the goats last night. Those two double plays Peralta hit in to kept us from blowing the game wide open. Imagine if he'd gotten on in front of Wong's homer. That would have definitely put the game away early. I'm not really down on Marco, because you could easily tell he was worn out.

I am with you on the roster. If Wacha isn't going to pitch he shouldn't be on the roster, but we are in a rock and a hard place on Yadi. We could replace him, but in the off chance we make the world series, he'd be ineligible for the WS even if he somehow recovers. The Royals would destroy Cruz & AJ on the base paths.

[jrulz83]

Yeah, the decision I disagreed with really didn't play much of a part in the loss last night. Peralta & Adams were easily the goats last night. Those two double plays Peralta hit in to kept us from blowing the game wide open. Imagine if he'd gotten on in front of Wong's homer. That would have definitely put the game away early. I'm not really down on Marco, because you could easily tell he was worn out.

I am with you on the roster. If Wacha isn't going to pitch he shouldn't be on the roster, but we are in a rock and a hard place on Yadi. We could replace him, but in the off chance we make the world series, he'd be ineligible for the WS even if he somehow recovers. The Royals would destroy Cruz & AJ on the base paths.

I completely agree about the Royals killing it on the basepaths without Molina back there, however, have you noticed all the optimism that this club pumps out about injuries only to have it "blow up" on them later on? There's a trend with this team that they sugarcoat injuries in the information that they put out for consumption. I just doubt anything they say about injuries.

I wasn't saying that they were unwilling to play Molina, that comment was directed toward the Wacha situation, I apologize for the lack of clarity there. The "unable to" was directed toward Molina.

They really need to look hard at the process that brought about this roster construction. I just can't understand why Wacha is on it if he's not going to pitch. I understand the thought process behind having a long man on the roster, but there has been two occasions in this series where a long man could have been used but wasn't. How long has it been since Wacha threw a pitch in anger? Two; nearly 3 weeks? Because of that I don't expect much from him at this point if he is used.

This has been yet another frustrating NLCS with the Giants, but the turn around begins tonight!!

[clutch]

Unwilling? I have no reason to believe that -- especially with Molina. WTH man?

The three biggest complaints I have in this series are:

1) Last night why did Holiday not bunt with runners in 1st and 2nd and no outs (I think in the 1st inning)? That is mind blowing.

2) I'm surprised that Matgeny didn't pinch hit for Shelby in his final at bat last night.

3) Maness could've pitched the 10th in game 3 probably (although I get wanting to have a lead off hit to start the 10th).

#1 is the biggest one to me.

I get keeping Yadi on the roster. If there is any chance that he could come in after AJ hits in the middle of a game and play behind the plate and come out when he has to hit -- or even stay in if it's a bunt situation -- why not?

As for Wacha -- a little more puzzling, I'll admit. But we may well need him in relief work tonight. A lot of guys pitched yesterday. And he'd certainly be a good option in a 12 plus inning game.

I don't have a problem with them not bunting Holliday. Especially that early in the game. 2 on and no outs and you are taking the bat out of the hands of one of your best hitters. A hitter very capable of hitting a 3 run hr in that situation. Not to mention that Holliday probably has very little bunting experience for that very reason. I know it seems simple, but here's an art to bunting and a lot of players just flat out aren't good at it. Not sure if that's the case with Holliday or not.

Later in the game, I probably would have bunted him though.

[popcornhog]

Well, Wainwright's staying in the game. I'm cool with that.

We're hitting Bumgarner well so far.

[jrulz83]

This is what the Cards have done to Bumgarner:

[popcornhog]

Can Waino keep going?

[jrulz83]

^^^^^^He has to.^^^^^^

[popcornhog]

What a DP.

Conservative zone this far.

[jrulz83]

Here begins the Giants come back to win this game.

[clutch]

Just got home from coaching a jr high football game. Looks like we are doing pretty good. I'm going to fight the urge to turn it on for the good of the team. I don't want to jinx anything. If it gets tied up, I'll turn it on then.

[clutch]

I do see that Jon Jay is still on fire. Batting a ridiculous .529 in the postseason off of some really good pitchers.

[popcornhog]

Just got home from coaching a jr high football game. Looks like we are doing pretty good. I'm going to fight the urge to turn it on for the good of the team. I don't want to jinx anything. If it gets tied up, I'll turn it on then.

I decided to switch it up today and wear a Giants shirt and hat.

I've confused a lot of people at the bar tonight.

[clutch]

I decided to switch it up today and wear a Giants shirt and hat.

I've confused a lot of people at the bar tonight.

Good thinking. It's win or go home, we have to pull out every trick we can think of tonight.

[popcornhog]

Good thinking. It's win or go home, we have to pull out every trick we can think of tonight.

Yeah, and it cost me about $65. Better be some good juju.

[jrulz83]

Well, Waino gave the Cardinals what they needed, can the bullpen hold it?

[clutch]

Well, Waino gave the Cardinals what they needed, can the bullpen hold it?

He looked like he could go another.

Sorry guys, I broke down and turned it on. I'm weak. If we lose, it's on me.

[jrulz83]

He looked like he could go another.

Sorry guys, I broke down and turned it on. I'm weak. If we lose, it's on me.

He did look strong, but I'm betting that's it.

The Cardinals are sure to lose now!!!!!

[jrulz83]

This is un-freaking-believable!

[popcornhog]

Wacha is working in the pen.

Interesting.

[clutch]

I feel bad for matheny. It's like no matter what he does, it's the wrong move. He can't catch a break. Neshchek has been great up until this point.

[johnny cash]

Waino was under 100 pitches. He was shutting the door. Can't belive he didn't leave him in.

[jrulz83]

I feel bad for matheny. It's like no matter what he does, it's the wrong move. He can't catch a break. Neshchek has been great up until this point.

It is astounding how many of his "moves" have failed. Wacha coming in will be a total wild card, I expect him to take the loss if he pitches. He hasn't pitched in nearly three weeks, it could be ugly.

[clutch]

Waino was under 100 pitches. He was shutting the door. Can't belive he didn't leave him in.

I was kind of thinking he should go one more since we were still at the top of the order. Might as well let him throw the 8th since he wasn't going to need to be PH for.

[clutch]

It is astounding how many of his "moves" have failed. Wacha coming in will be a total wild card, I expect him to take the loss if he pitches. He hasn't pitched in nearly three weeks, it could be ugly.

And in an unfamiliar role. Plus a huge situation. Tough spot for the youngster.

[jrulz83]

Waino was under 100 pitches. He was shutting the door. Can't belive he didn't leave him in.

I was fine with that, Neshek has been solid.

[clutch]

I was fine with that, Neshek has been solid.

I understood the decision either way. Just amazing how once again it bit him.

[jrulz83]

Strike 3! Ball 4!

[popcornhog]

Love bringing Oscar to the plate here.

[popcornhog]

I was fine with that, Neshek has been solid.

Agreed. I think it was the right call.

[jrulz83]

Oscar Taveras can't hit.

[jrulz83]

Sandoval, Pence, or Belt, which one hits the NLCS clinching Homer?

[popcornhog]

I liked bringing Oscar in but sticking with him against the lefty was sort of surprising.

[popcornhog]

Go Giants!!!!

Come on Pablo!!!!!!!

⚾️🇺🇸🍻

[jrulz83]

I liked bringing Oscar in but sticking with him against the lefty was sort of surprising.

Pinch hit Kozma for Taveras? I would have just let Bourjos hack.

[jrulz83]

Perfect ending. #Mathenaging

[popcornhog]

Good season fellas.

Lots to question, lots to build on.

I'll be cheering for the Royals in the WS.

[dacskc]

Well my new strategy of staying out of the game thread altogether was also a miserable failure. Oh well, next year's an odd number.

[clutch]

I knew I shouldn't have started watching. I screwed us.

[johnny cash]

Well at least we beat the Dodgers. Good season.

[johnny cash]

Good season fellas.

Lots to question, lots to build on.

I'll be cheering for the Royals in the WS.

me too.