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After a few days to reflect, read posts and hear call in shows it seems obvious.

Started by hobhog, March 21, 2018, 12:26:32 am

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AHiD

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 01:08:51 pm
Auburn would have stuck with Tony Barbee with this mindset. They weren't even that good with Charles Barkley. They should have just been happy being terrible and not try to improve.

First of all, Arkansas isn't at the bottom of a bad SEC with no one at their ball games like Auburn was. Second of all, do you really think Bruce Pearl is that good of a coach?
My name...is Jerruh

Darren DeLoach

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on March 21, 2018, 04:55:45 pm
First of all, Arkansas isn't at the bottom of a bad SEC with no one at their ball games like Auburn was. Second of all, do you really think Bruce Pearl is that good of a coach?

His point was that even a basketball death-valley like Auburn can become relevant with the right coach. Now how that coach attains that relevancy is another topic. lol.
ο λογος υμων παντοτε εν χαριτι αλατι ηρτυμενος ειδεναι πως δει υμας ενι εκαστω αποκρινεσθαι

 

steveaustin69

Quote from: Darren DeLoach (semohawg) on March 21, 2018, 04:57:48 pm
His point was that even a basketball death-valley like Auburn can become relevant with the right coach.

Yup. Lotta mouth breathers on this site.

systemroot

Quote from: Darren DeLoach (semohawg) on March 21, 2018, 04:54:14 pm
Geesh...Heath was a politically motivated hire due to the Richardson mess. We literally could have had any number of high profile guys. Heath was the next big thing with no track record, but more importantly...he was black and would take the job. He left a mess that Altman ran from. Altman was considered a huge get. The equivalent of a Greg Marshall. His sudden departure exposed the mess and left the team in a spot that, yes, only John P. would take on.

Again, you are clearly clueless about the program that you supposedly root for.

Or, you are too young to remember.

Race card users please stand up!

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 04:45:05 pm
No, I don't. There is risk involved in a coaching hire. I've never shied from that.

Are you satisfied? As I've stated all indications are it's not going to get much better.

I'm not, and willing to move on; a lot of our flaws are correctable and Mike is either too stubborn or too incompetent to fix.

I don't get why you're so obsessed with Mike wanting to be here. Pelphrey wanted the job. Heath wanted the job. What the hell did that have to do with anything?

I can appreciate that. I am not sure that I would classify myself as being obsessed with Mike but it obviously comes off that way with what we are talking about so I will concede that. I appreciate all of the things that Mike has done right. I am certainly not naive enough to believe that if Mike does not pick it up over the next two to three years that he will be looking elsewhere for a new job. I just don't believe it would benefit Arkansas to fire Mike after next year if it is a down year. We are losing six seniors and a possible 1st round draft choice in Daniel Gafford (if he chooses to leave). This is solely my opinion, it just would not seem right to fire a man if he has a down year after losing that many players off of his team. I hope that seems logical.

I am just of the belief that we as fans need to be more realistic. If it is all about money, I still stand with Mike at this point because things are still going well for them financially at the moment. I am not ready to concede that he is overpaid as the head basketball coach for the Razorbacks either. All I want to see is Razorback fans utilize a little patience considering the factors that Mike has had to deal with.

Is that too much to ask for?

Mr. Porkleone

There are so many so many people in this thread that live MEDIOCRE basketball. What has Anderson done?

No SEC titles
No SEC tourney Titles
3 NCAA's with no weekends
Horrible road record
Terrible crowd attendance
He's not even a Good X &O's coach

I want to win and win big. I want a coach that teaches fundamenta B.B. 

So yes, I want change!

golfinpig

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 04:45:05 pm
No, I don't. There is risk involved in a coaching hire. I've never shied from that.

Are you satisfied? As I've stated all indications are it's not going to get much better.

I'm not, and willing to move on; a lot of our flaws are correctable and Mike is either too stubborn or too incompetent to fix.

I don't get why you're so obsessed with Mike wanting to be here. Pelphrey wanted the job. Heath wanted the job. What the hell did that have to do with anything?
You are wasting your time trying to inject reason into an argument with an MA apologist. You and I both recognize his coaching flaws but my main bitch is his recruiting. We don't get one an dones yet we will not have a senior on the roster next year. Bad recruiting is also why we have to reach for guys like Cook and Thomas.

HogBreath

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 05:02:32 pm

All I want to see is Razorback fans utilize a little patience considering the factors that Mike has had to deal with.

It's gonna be year eight, so fans have been more than patient. 
And the roster issues are all of Mike's doing, he's the one who put together the terribly unbalanced classes. 
Heath did the same and got blistered for it, Mike does it and needs a pass?  How does that work?
No doubt the college game of today will present a challenge for the coach, but that's not unique to just the Razorbacks.
I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

systemroot

Quote from: golfinpig on March 21, 2018, 08:15:21 pm
You are wasting your time trying to inject reason into an argument with an MA apologist. You and I both recognize his coaching flaws but my main bitch is his recruiting. We don't get one an dones yet we will not have a senior on the roster next year. Bad recruiting is also why we have to reach for guys like Cook and Thomas.

I never said that he does not have any flaws. Try again.

Quote from: HogBreath on March 21, 2018, 08:27:10 pm
It's gonna be year eight, so fans have been more than patient. 
And the roster issues are all of Mike's doing, he's the one who put together the terribly unbalanced classes. 
Heath did the same and got blistered for it, Mike does it and needs a pass?  How does that work?
No doubt the college game of today will present a challenge for the coach, but that's not unique to just the Razorbacks.

I would like to post a quote from another thread that may shed a little light on the matter.

Quote from: Kevin McPherson on March 21, 2018, 07:53:37 pm
I'm sorry, but Pel was constantly suspending players (seemed like it was weekly), kicking players out of the program, players were leaving or trying to (he actually had players who tried to quit DURING games) ... those were guys he recruited and brought through his revolving door of toxicity. Forget about his woeful record on the court, an internal review of the program after his 4th season led to his ouster ... and yes, the program was under APR trouble that began with Heath but continued under Pel ... the class that came in was not as good as advertised ... neither HM (Top 100) nor KM (Top 40) lived up to his recruiting ranking (both were overrated), and BJY (5*) was a talented one-trick pony who was not coachable and blew out after 2 seasons. MP wrecked his knee in game 2 of CMA's 1st season, came back the following year but was always a challenge to get to play hard, especially on D.

Because of APR, CMA couldn't just turnover the roster. Sanchez, Waithe, Wade, Scott, Nobles, and Haydar (walk-on) were your veterans, and BJY, KM, HM, and Abrons were your rookies. Pel not only left the cupboard bare, he turned the program inside-out with all the bad characters he brought in and ran off before leaving the next coach the gift of a dumpster fire.

It is easy to sit back and just count the years but you are not considering all of the factors. Too many fans have unrealistic expectations. There's no way Arkansas is going to be competing for national championships year in and year out.

elksnort

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 12:48:22 pm
Too many have the mindset of "anybody but Mike Anderson". I could list off several names that sounds good for Arkansas but I just don't believe Arkansas is a place where coaches would want to come to.
Why not?

HogBreath

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 08:57:37 pm
I never said that he does not have any flaws. Try again.

I would like to post a quote from another thread that may shed a little light on the matter.

It is easy to sit back and just count the years but you are not considering all of the factors. Too many fans have unrealistic expectations. There's no way Arkansas is going to be competing for national championships year in and year out.
Did the APR issues result in the year where Mike didn't have any recruits at all?  Like none..at all, yeah, he's a great recruiter all right. 

Oh wait, there was Whitt, but he left, wasn't he a Pel recruit?  Dustin Thomas  and Cook were Pel guys right?  Hazen, Doobie, Wagner, Babb, JaCorey Williams, yeah ole Pel left a mess all right.

But yeah, you're right, we just need to be patient and give Mike a chance to get his players in here.

Sheeze..I forgot about Rotnei Clarke, Michelson and Abrons who also hooked it up on the fast forty...as soon as Abrons had that twenty rebound game, I knew he wasn't cut out for the Coach Mike system.
I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

Kevin

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Kevin

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 05:02:32 pm
Race card users please stand up!

I can appreciate that. I am not sure that I would classify myself as being obsessed with Mike but it obviously comes off that way with what we are talking about so I will concede that. I appreciate all of the things that Mike has done right. I am certainly not naive enough to believe that if Mike does not pick it up over the next two to three years that he will be looking elsewhere for a new job. I just don't believe it would benefit Arkansas to fire Mike after next year if it is a down year. We are losing six seniors and a possible 1st round draft choice in Daniel Gafford (if he chooses to leave). This is solely my opinion, it just would not seem right to fire a man if he has a down year after losing that many players off of his team. I hope that seems logical.

I am just of the belief that we as fans need to be more realistic. If it is all about money, I still stand with Mike at this point because things are still going well for them financially at the moment. I am not ready to concede that he is overpaid as the head basketball coach for the Razorbacks either. All I want to see is Razorback fans utilize a little patience considering the factors that Mike has had to deal with.

Is that too much to ask for?

So what would it take for you to be ready. 10 more years of the stuff.

Arkansas should be a top 20 team every year. 
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

texas tush hog

Quote from: Cargill A. BullHog on March 21, 2018, 04:10:52 pm
Coach A has earned himslef a lot of leeway when it comes to job security.  He has finally dug the Hogs out of the hole created by Stanley Heath and Pelphrey.  Folks don't realize how far we'd fallen.  We were a dumpster fire.  Coach A has taken us back to respectability.  And he was an integral part of the 94-95 Razorback teams that did the unimaginable.  Coach A is the man, and he'll get us back there soon.


As long as Mike puts butts in seats he will be here. Ya'll can just sit and simmer and burn. The people who buy tickets are the ones who determine his future and there are more of them than there are on Hogville. LOL

 

The Boar War

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 04:17:14 pm
You say that as if it's a fact someone else will fail. It's not. Or that we would have to go to one of the worse conferences in the nation. We wouldn't.



There's a pattern to follow with Arkansas coaching searches.  Anderson is the exception to that and its only because of his deep personal ties here.  No.  I'm definitely not pleased with the early exit from the tournament, the Houston game, the Florida game, and the series with LSU.  We did finish the season on a good run, were locks for the tournament, and many thought we should get to the second round of the tournament.

Expectations were zero not that long ago.  The Arkansas program from the late seventies to the nineties was murdered, doused with gasoline, and set on fire.  Even though it goes by the same name we're not the same program so expecting Arkansas to just rise up and challenge for a national championship is not realistic.  Expect us to go to the tournament.  That's what Mike can deliver.  Imagine him as the Lanny Van Emon of this new program.  We will get there but we have to rebuild.

What we can't do is fire Mike without a better coach at the door waiting to walk in.  I don't have another Pelphrey era left in me

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 12:27:15 pm
On another note I cannot believe people think back to back tourneys is some kind of special feat. Stan Freaking Heath did that, and would've done it a third if he didn't get fired for losing in the tournament (why is Anderson's leash so long???????)
Anderson's leash is longer because he doesn't deserve to be treated exactly like Stan Heath.
Past history should count for something. A guy with long ties to the UA deserves a longer leash.
Now, we can argue how much longer and if that has expired or not, but I expect a guy like MA to be treated differently than Heath.

Nickle-Pig

Quote from: hobhog on March 21, 2018, 12:26:32 am
MA will have next year and his young recruits to save his job. He may do it as all he needs to do is dance again in year 8. But if not it will be the first and most important hire of our young ADs career.

On to baseball and spring football......

He will retire here you might as well become a Duke fan.
Social sites are where cowards go to get a cup of courage.

MakingPlays

Quote from: Arkansas Traveler on March 21, 2018, 10:52:49 pm
On top of that, there is no way - no way - that Mike Anderson was ever going to be fired after taking us to three NCAA Tournaments in four years. With that in mind, I'll predict that no matter our won/loss record next year, Mike will still be here as our head coach for the 2019-20 season unless he chooses to retire. I don't see that happening for a few more years.

I would agree with this.

One thought that I haven't seen mentioned by any posters regarding if we fired Mike Anderson is the affect it may have on our in-state recruiting.  CMA has built a very solid network across the state and has really started to lock down all our top in state recruits, we have the top guys from 2017 to the foreseeable future.  And when you listen to them talk they all mention how much they love the style of play and the staff.  Ronnie Brewer was on Bo's show talking about this the other day.  When you look at the Arkansas Hawks program, we're getting all their top players, the staff has a great relationship with Bill Ingram and all those guys.  The staff has repaired the relationship with Parkview a school that's known for cranking out D1 prospects.  CMA is friends with Fitz Hill, who's son is the top 2019 prospect, and one of the kids that's been helping recruit other Arkansas kids the hardest.  Then you look at all the old players that feel comfortable coming back home now, I don't ever remember so many ex-players being at the games, visiting the locker rooms, going on the radio shows talking about the team.  With this staff you can tell it's a comfort level with a lot of them.

I think if a change is made, the AD is going to have to be very careful, and it's has to be the right person, the person may have to have some Arkansas ties to make the transition smooth.  Because it could turn into a situation like what Memphis just dealt with in hiring Tubby Smith.  Which was, they had a lot of people with influence over their top in-state kid not really liking the hire and feeling like Tubby really didn't represent Memphis and wasn't one of them and he was essentially blackballed from getting any of the top in-state kids, and that's what got him fired after 2 years.  Now they are having to bring in an unproven high school coach with heavy ties to the program just to try to unite everyone again and get their top in-state kids back interested in the program.  These Arkansas kid's love the being apart of that 40 minutes of hell history and playing that up-tempo style of play, you get rid of that, it could be some of that same backlash Memphis dealt with. And I don't care who the coach is they won't survive at Arkansas long without getting the top in-state kids.

jvanhorn

Even the University of Memphis only needed two years to figure out that Tubby Smith was not going to be the answer--and actually do something about it.  Of course, the fans stopped coming and they do have a pro team as an alternative.  I have no idea if Penny Hardaway is the answer or not but there is a lot of talent in Memphis and, at worst, he will keep them from going elsewhere.

Kevin

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on March 22, 2018, 12:32:49 am
Anderson's leash is longer because he doesn't deserve to be treated exactly like Stan Heath.
Past history should count for something. A guy with long ties to the UA deserves a longer leash.
Now, we can argue how much longer and if that has expired or not, but I expect a guy like MA to be treated differently than Heath.

he has had a long enough leash. 7 freaking years. it is not like he got here yesterday.  let's not go down the propaganda road that long started by saying his first 3 years don't count. they made that up to help calm people down.


Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

steveaustin69

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 01:51:18 am
I would agree with this.

One thought that I haven't seen mentioned by any posters regarding if we fired Mike Anderson is the affect it may have on our in-state recruiting.  CMA has built a very solid network across the state and has really started to lock down all our top in state recruits, we have the top guys from 2017 to the foreseeable future.  And when you listen to them talk they all mention how much they love the style of play and the staff.  Ronnie Brewer was on Bo's show talking about this the other day.  When you look at the Arkansas Hawks program, we're getting all their top players, the staff has a great relationship with Bill Ingram and all those guys.  The staff has repaired the relationship with Parkview a school that's known for cranking out D1 prospects.  CMA is friends with Fitz Hill, who's son is the top 2019 prospect, and one of the kids that's been helping recruit other Arkansas kids the hardest.  Then you look at all the old players that feel comfortable coming back home now, I don't ever remember so many ex-players being at the games, visiting the locker rooms, going on the radio shows talking about the team.  With this staff you can tell it's a comfort level with a lot of them.

I think if a change is made, the AD is going to have to be very careful, and it's has to be the right person, the person may have to have some Arkansas ties to make the transition smooth.  Because it could turn into a situation like what Memphis just dealt with in hiring Tubby Smith.  Which was, they had a lot of people with influence over their top in-state kid not really liking the hire and feeling like Tubby really didn't represent Memphis and wasn't one of them and he was essentially blackballed from getting any of the top in-state kids, and that's what got him fired after 2 years.  Now they are having to bring in an unproven high school coach with heavy ties to the program just to try to unite everyone again and get their top in-state kids back interested in the program.  These Arkansas kid's love the being apart of that 40 minutes of hell history and playing that up-tempo style of play, you get rid of that, it could be some of that same backlash Memphis dealt with. And I don't care who the coach is they won't survive at Arkansas long without getting the top in-state kids.

Did Perry switch back to Arkansas?

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 10:18:42 am
Which is beyond stupid. Exactly which top notch coach is Arkansas going to get? Mike Anderson has had progression during his time here and losing one of his top players to the draft should not put Mike at fault. He has some solid recruits coming in and he can still go get another big man for the next year as well.

Arkansas fans needs to stop putting the cart before the horse.

It doesn't matter if there is a horse and cart if it doesn't go down the road.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: jvanhorn on March 22, 2018, 02:01:04 am
Even the University of Memphis only needed two years to figure out that Tubby Smith was not going to be the answer--and actually do something about it.  Of course, the fans stopped coming and they do have a pro team as an alternative.  I have no idea if Penny Hardaway is the answer or not but there is a lot of talent in Memphis and, at worst, he will keep them from going elsewhere.

Tubby made some big mistakes there. That caused attendance to plummet. It got so bad they even lost the money the Grizzlies were paying them for attendance. All they needed was 6,000 and they weren't averaging that! He never endeared himself to the community. That is a necessity in Memphis and most places. Thus they hire Mr. Tiger and get one of the most liked Tiger athletes. It didn't work for Larry Finch but we'll see how Penny does.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 01:51:18 am
I would agree with this.

One thought that I haven't seen mentioned by any posters regarding if we fired Mike Anderson is the affect it may have on our in-state recruiting.  CMA has built a very solid network across the state and has really started to lock down all our top in state recruits, we have the top guys from 2017 to the foreseeable future.  And when you listen to them talk they all mention how much they love the style of play and the staff.  Ronnie Brewer was on Bo's show talking about this the other day.  When you look at the Arkansas Hawks program, we're getting all their top players, the staff has a great relationship with Bill Ingram and all those guys.  The staff has repaired the relationship with Parkview a school that's known for cranking out D1 prospects.  CMA is friends with Fitz Hill, who's son is the top 2019 prospect, and one of the kids that's been helping recruit other Arkansas kids the hardest.  Then you look at all the old players that feel comfortable coming back home now, I don't ever remember so many ex-players being at the games, visiting the locker rooms, going on the radio shows talking about the team.  With this staff you can tell it's a comfort level with a lot of them.

I think if a change is made, the AD is going to have to be very careful, and it's has to be the right person, the person may have to have some Arkansas ties to make the transition smooth.  Because it could turn into a situation like what Memphis just dealt with in hiring Tubby Smith.  Which was, they had a lot of people with influence over their top in-state kid not really liking the hire and feeling like Tubby really didn't represent Memphis and wasn't one of them and he was essentially blackballed from getting any of the top in-state kids, and that's what got him fired after 2 years.  Now they are having to bring in an unproven high school coach with heavy ties to the program just to try to unite everyone again and get their top in-state kids back interested in the program.  These Arkansas kid's love the being apart of that 40 minutes of hell history and playing that up-tempo style of play, you get rid of that, it could be some of that same backlash Memphis dealt with. And I don't care who the coach is they won't survive at Arkansas long without getting the top in-state kids.

That bolded part is very important, isn't it?  Just gives you the warm fuzzies.  A reason we made this hire.  They got their program back. 

Where are these in state recruits going to go?  Little Rock, Ok St, Wichita, Bama, play football and basketball at Memphis?  If we can't get a staff who can lock down this level of in state recruits and those who love the Hog (Portis) just shut it down. 

Arkansas ties?  Never [CENSORED] learn do we.  Let's not try and hire the best coach possible and just hire them to do a job.  Got to have that incest thing.  Warm fuzzies.  Make it personal to where we get this darn over and over.

Your post is what makes it hard to force myself to pay attention any longer.
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

MakingPlays

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 22, 2018, 07:01:48 am
Did Perry switch back to Arkansas?

Should have clarified, we're getting all their top in-state prospects.  And anybody that follows recruiting knows what happened with the Perry situation it's been discussed everywhere thousands of times. 

 

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: Kevin on March 22, 2018, 06:51:34 am
he has had a long enough leash. 7 freaking years. it is not like he got here yesterday.  let's not go down the propaganda road that long started by saying his first 3 years don't count. they made that up to help calm people down.
Not arguing that.
Basically Anderson's 7 years = Heath's 5 years.
Factoring that, they're both being treated fairly at this point.

MakingPlays

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 22, 2018, 08:55:42 am
That bolded part is very important, isn't it?  Just gives you the warm fuzzies.  A reason we made this hire.  They got their program back. 

Where are these in state recruits going to go?  Little Rock, Ok St, Wichita, Bama, play football and basketball at Memphis?  If we can't get a staff who can lock down this level of in state recruits and those who love the Hog (Portis) just shut it down. 

Arkansas ties?  Never [CENSORED] learn do we.  Let's not try and hire the best coach possible and just hire them to do a job.  Got to have that incest thing.  Warm fuzzies.  Make it personal to where we get this darn over and over.

Your post is what makes it hard to force myself to pay attention any longer.

Whoa there buddy, your post is off the rails and very emotional.  I'm not here for the name calling and cursing and emotional outburst I read mostly and post occasionally, I'm not about drama just want some civil discussion, if you can't do that I'm probably not the guy to respond to, I'm quick to ignore. 

I was just telling you some of the affects that happens when you fire a coach with long time ties to the program especially a coach that has built strong relationships.  I provided the example of what happened with Memphis.  Pastner was a guy that had been there as an assistant and a head coach, he had a lot of ties, when he left, and Tubby came in and got rid of all his assistants, and wasn't trying hire any Memphis guys, it rubbed them the wrong way and he really struggled to build relationships in the Memphis area because of it.  Georgetown was faced with a similar situation, people love the Thompson's but Thompson III wasn't getting the job done, they hired Patrick Ewing to keep things together because their was a lot of people in their fan base still loved the Thompsons and wanted their style of play because they were accustomed to it.  When you fire somebody that's had ties to the program for nearly 30 years, it comes with some backlash, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.


MakingPlays

Quote from: jvanhorn on March 22, 2018, 02:01:04 am
Even the University of Memphis only needed two years to figure out that Tubby Smith was not going to be the answer--and actually do something about it.  Of course, the fans stopped coming and they do have a pro team as an alternative.  I have no idea if Penny Hardaway is the answer or not but there is a lot of talent in Memphis and, at worst, he will keep them from going elsewhere.

You must not have followed Memphis situation.  Tubby got the Memphis job for the job he did at Texas Tech, which was basically pulling them out of the dumpster and making them relevant.  People talk about Chris Beard, but Tubby is the guy that rebuilt that program, He left the program in great shape for Beard.

What happened with Tubby is he rubbed the wrong people the wrong way, has nothing to do with his on the floor coaching.  It started when it was rumored that he'd hire Penny on as an assistant if he got the job, because a lot of Memphis really wanted Penny as apart of the program.  Once Tubby got it he quickly shut those rumors down and let it be known it was his program and he wasn't bringing Penny on.  After that Tubby demoted the Lawson's dad, who was an assistant under Pastner. When he did this the Lawson brothers transferred, and one even made a video that went viral saying "F Tubby."  From there Tubby was pretty much blackballed from getting any of their top recruits in the Memphis area.  His lawyer is currently looking into Penny's role in steering kids away from Memphis.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2018/03/09/memphis-basketball-tigers-tubby-smith-penny-hardaway-high-school-recruiting-aau-tulsa-cincinnati-aac/411485002/

Tubby got the raw end of that deal.  He was hired to clean the program up and get them back to relevance.  He was in the process of doing that, and outside influences did not allow him to do that.

hogsanity

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 22, 2018, 07:01:48 am
Did Perry switch back to Arkansas?

We're getting all the top players - that are not likely to play in the NBA is really what Mike is getting.

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 22, 2018, 08:55:42 am
That bolded part is very important, isn't it?  Just gives you the warm fuzzies.  A reason we made this hire.  They got their program back. 

Where are these in state recruits going to go?  Little Rock, Ok St, Wichita, Bama, play football and basketball at Memphis?  If we can't get a staff who can lock down this level of in state recruits and those who love the Hog (Portis) just shut it down. 

Arkansas ties?  Never [CENSORED] learn do we.  Let's not try and hire the best coach possible and just hire them to do a job.  Got to have that incest thing.  Warm fuzzies.  Make it personal to where we get this darn over and over.

Your post is what makes it hard to force myself to pay attention any longer.

Been very telling the last few days, some of these guys are finally, though unintentionally, coming clean about the fact that the most important thing to them is clinging to the 90's. Juts like how some on here think TJ in the next coaching in training.

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 11:09:57 am

When you fire somebody that's had ties to the program for nearly 30 years, it comes with some backlash, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.


Oh we acknowledge it, which is why you should not make those type hires to start with, and why some of us did not want Mike to start with. There were probably 3 dozen coaches out there with similar records as to Mike at UAB and Mizzu, but none came with the emotional baggage. IF they did not get the job done it was easy to say " thanks but your services are no longer needed. ".  Can't do that with Mike, too many people look at him and still see Nolan. And then he has brought back Thurman and Mayberry and TJ to strengthen that visual. Don't you find it odd how few Nolan or Anderson assistants have ever been plucked away to be a HC anywhere?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

MakingPlays

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2018, 11:53:13 am
We're getting all the top players - that are not likely to play in the NBA is really what Mike is getting.

Been very telling the last few days, some of these guys are finally, though unintentionally, coming clean about the fact that the most important thing to them is clinging to the 90's. Juts like how some on here think TJ in the next coaching in training.

Oh we acknowledge it, which is why you should not make those type hires to start with, and why some of us did not want Mike to start with. There were probably 3 dozen coaches out there with similar records as to Mike at UAB and Mizzu, but none came with the emotional baggage. IF they did not get the job done it was easy to say " thanks but your services are no longer needed. ".  Can't do that with Mike, too many people look at him and still see Nolan. And then he has brought back Thurman and Mayberry and TJ to strengthen that visual. Don't you find it odd how few Nolan or Anderson assistants have ever been plucked away to be a HC anywhere?

Have any of them been actively looking for head coaching jobs?  I keep up with it pretty close, and only thing I've ever heard is rumors that TJ may be interested in a job and that was only like once, I've never heard any confirmation that any of them actually applying for a head coaching job and got turned down.  If you have confirmation on that I'd love to see it.

And do you seriously think TJ Cleveland or Melvin Watkins can't go out and get a head coaching job at a D2/D3 school or a lower division D1 school?  That's laughable, there's WAY less qualified guys than them that have head coaching jobs at these type of schools.  If they were absolutely set out to get a head coaching job they could get one.  But, why would they just take any job at any place, when they could make similar or more money being assistants here at Arkansas?  And with TJ Cleveland he's still really young, I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to continue to learn under Coach Anderson, especially at his Alma Mater.  I mean just look at coach Anderson he was an assistant for 18 years under Nolan.  Arkansas was premier program while Nolan was here, you think he couldn't have got a head coaching job anytime he wanted?  He seemed to find a job pretty quickly with UAB after Arkansas didn't offer him the job.  Everybody doesn't just want to jump around and just take a job just to say they are a head coach.  If you are in a good situation, you can wait around and be picky and choose the right situation. 

hobhog

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 12:41:24 pm
Have any of them been actively looking for head coaching jobs?  I keep up with it pretty close, and only thing I've ever heard is rumors that TJ may be interested in a job and that was only like once, I've never heard any confirmation that any of them actually applying for a head coaching job and got turned down.  If you have confirmation on that I'd love to see it.

And do you seriously think TJ Cleveland or Melvin Watkins can't go out and get a head coaching job at a D2/D3 school or a lower division D1 school?  That's laughable, there's WAY less qualified guys than them that have head coaching jobs at these type of schools.  If they were absolutely set out to get a head coaching job they could get one.  But, why would they just take any job at any place, when they could make similar or more money being assistants here at Arkansas?  And with TJ Cleveland he's still really young, I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to continue to learn under Coach Anderson, especially at his Alma Mater.  I mean just look at coach Anderson he was an assistant for 18 years under Nolan.  Arkansas was premier program while Nolan was here, you think he couldn't have got a head coaching job anytime he wanted?  He seemed to find a job pretty quickly with UAB after Arkansas didn't offer him the job.  Everybody doesn't just want to jump around and just take a job just to say they are a head coach.  If you are in a good situation, you can wait around and be picky and choose the right situation.

Wow. So you're saying they'd turn down 3 to 10 times their salary because they like it here so much and want to learn? And former players have ALWAYS come back and supported Hogs. Not unique to MA.

You have made it clear you are happy with Razorback basketball where it is right now, which is fine. But you're trying really hard to convince others to agree.

GuvHog

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 12:32:05 pm
Cronin and Mack would have to be nuts to leave their programs for Arkansas but I do appreciate you putting some names down in the post to discuss. I'm not too sure about Matta though. I would prefer Andy Kennedy over Matta, more so due to playing style.

The fact that you would chose a coach that did virtually nothing at Ole Miss and got fired for it over a coach that won big at Ohio State speaks volumes about your mentality (or lack thereof).

Frankly, I don't care what style of ball a head coach espouses. All I care about is that he wins and advances in the NCAA Tournament while running a clean program.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MakingPlays

Quote from: hobhog on March 22, 2018, 01:26:34 pm
Wow. So you're saying they'd turn down 3 to 10 times their salary because they like it here so much and want to learn? And former players have ALWAYS come back and supported Hogs. Not unique to MA.

You have made it clear you are happy with Razorback basketball where it is right now, which is fine. But you're trying really hard to convince others to agree.

Can you quote me some where I said I was happy?  I gave TJ's possible reasoning for wanting to stay as an assistant.  This is his alma mater and he learning directly under his uncle.  Sounds like a good situation to me.  And Melvin Watkins is like 60 something years old and already been a head coach before. I'd imagine he's ready to retire in the next couple of years why would he look for a head coaching job? And Scotty Thurman has only been an assistant for 2 years, he still has a long way to go before before he's ready for head coaching. 

You guys are way too emotional, it's just game it's not that serious trust me, life goes on.  Everything is not a conspiracy theory and our coaches aren't the worst coaches in the world like you guys want it to be.  If you guys want to carry on and act like Coach Anderson and his staff are the worst thing to every happen to razorback basketball and nobody else wants them, then by all means continue to think that, but I was just letting you know that's not the reality, if it was they wouldn't be here plain and simple. 

hobhog

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 01:40:35 pm
Can you quote me some where I said I was happy?  I gave TJ's possible reasoning for wanting to stay as an assistant.  This is his alma mater and he learning directly under his uncle.  Sounds like a good situation to me.  And Melvin Watkins is like 60 something years old and already been a head coach before. I'd imagine he's ready to retire in the next couple of years why would he look for a head coaching job? And Scotty Thurman has only been an assistant for 2 years, he still has a long way to go before before he's ready for head coaching. 

You guys are way too emotional, it's just game it's not that serious trust me, life goes on.  Everything is not a conspiracy theory and our coaches aren't the worst coaches in the world like you guys want it to be.  If you guys want to carry on and act like Coach Anderson and his staff are the worst thing to every happen to razorback basketball and nobody else wants them, then by all means continue to think that, but I was just letting you know that's not the reality, if it was they wouldn't be here plain and simple.

Too emotional? Life goes on?

Ok, you win. Just let the program ride, shut up and be happy. Got it.

Davidr295

Isn't it Anserson's fault we are turning over 90% of the roster to freshman; how about those two full classes he wiffed on completely.

cram224

Who was the main recruiters for Nolan during his first 8 years at Ark? When did CMA take over as the top assistant for Nolan?

GuvHog

Quote from: HogBreath on March 21, 2018, 10:00:53 pm
Did the APR issues result in the year where Mike didn't have any recruits at all?  Like none..at all, yeah, he's a great recruiter all right. 

Oh wait, there was Whitt, but he left, wasn't he a Pel recruit?  Dustin Thomas  and Cook were Pel guys right?  Hazen, Doobie, Wagner, Babb, JaCorey Williams, yeah ole Pel left a mess all right.

But yeah, you're right, we just need to be patient and give Mike a chance to get his players in here.

Sheeze..I forgot about Rotnei Clarke, Michelson and Abrons who also hooked it up on the fast forty...as soon as Abrons had that twenty rebound game, I knew he wasn't cut out for the Coach Mike system.

The falsehoods that are being told about John Pelphrey on this board are unbelievable.

Pelphrey inherited the APR problems from Heath but they did not continue through his tenure. He inherited a complete dumpster fire and cleaned it up. Arkansas was looking at losing multiple scholarship due to Stan Heath's mess and by the time Pel was terminated, he had cleaned the APR problems up to the point that Arkansas would eventually lose only one scholarship rather than multiple ones. The team he inherited had 6 Seniors on it and he lost 3 other players after the season bringing the total to 9. Left with only 4 scholarship players and 2 walk ons, he started to rebuild the program to the point that in his final season, his Hogs earned an NIT bid, and he had a top 10 rated recruiting class headed to campus for the next season. That should have earned him another season at Arkansas.

Pel was fired for one reason and one reason only. It was because certain people were screaming for Mike Anderson and had been doing so since Nolan's termination. Plain and simple, John Pelphrey was treated very dirty by the U of A.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MakingPlays

Quote from: hobhog on March 22, 2018, 01:42:25 pm
Too emotional? Life goes on?

Ok, you win. Just let the program ride, shut up and be happy. Got it.

That's what i mean by too emotional.  It's one extreme or another extreme with some of you guys.  I've yet to see in this thread where anyone has said they are perfectly happy with where the program is after year 7 under CMA, and I've yet to see anyone tell someone to shut and be happy.  If you seen that please point it and quote it because I think most would agree that person is wearing hog colored glasses because there should be some cause for concern. 

What some of us are simply saying is it's not as bad as some of you are making it out to be and we could be in a much worst situation and if a change is made it has to be the right fit at the right time otherwise we could set this program back again, which nobody wants to see.  Any reasonable person can understand that, but I guess it may be too much to ask for some people to leave emotion out of it and see that.

porkinsons disease

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 01:40:35 pm
Can you quote me some where I said I was happy?  I gave TJ's possible reasoning for wanting to stay as an assistant.  This is his alma mater and he learning directly under his uncle.  Sounds like a good situation to me.  And Melvin Watkins is like 60 something years old and already been a head coach before. I'd imagine he's ready to retire in the next couple of years why would he look for a head coaching job? And Scotty Thurman has only been an assistant for 2 years, he still has a long way to go before before he's ready for head coaching. 

You guys are way too emotional, it's just game it's not that serious trust me, life goes on.  Everything is not a conspiracy theory and our coaches aren't the worst coaches in the world like you guys want it to be.  If you guys want to carry on and act like Coach Anderson and his staff are the worst thing to every happen to razorback basketball and nobody else wants them, then by all means continue to think that, but I was just letting you know that's not the reality, if it was they wouldn't be here plain and simple. 
I'm not seeing in this thread where people are saying that CMA is the worst thing to ever happen to Razorback basketball. If I am missing it , please point it out. Most are saying that CMA has brought us back to respectability but has probably reached his ceiling here. They, including myself are willing to risk what we currently have in hopes of greater accomplishments (something more than making 3/7 tourneys with weekend exits in all of them). The "feel good " story has played out long enough. CMA has been well compensated for his time and efforts. Thank him and move on
This hiding behind he has a great recruiting classcoming in crap is just another excuse for this man. you could give this man M. Johnson and Larry Bird togather and he still would not win. he is a pitiful coach who can,t coach a lick.-fcj 1/22/2011

Cargill A. BullHog

Quote from: texas tush hog on March 21, 2018, 11:11:44 pm

As long as Mike puts butts in seats he will be here. Ya'll can just sit and simmer and burn. The people who buy tickets are the ones who determine his future and there are more of them than there are on Hogville. LOL

Exactly.  Coach A has strong support from the fanbase because of his history with the program.  Fans are excited to watch the rebirth of Hog basketball under the best assistant to the best coach we've ever had.  WPS
I love my Razorbacks, Coach A, Coach M, Coach VH and all the players and fans.

steveaustin69

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 12:41:24 pm
Have any of them been actively looking for head coaching jobs?  I keep up with it pretty close, and only thing I've ever heard is rumors that TJ may be interested in a job and that was only like once, I've never heard any confirmation that any of them actually applying for a head coaching job and got turned down.  If you have confirmation on that I'd love to see it.

And do you seriously think TJ Cleveland or Melvin Watkins can't go out and get a head coaching job at a D2/D3 school or a lower division D1 school?  That's laughable, there's WAY less qualified guys than them that have head coaching jobs at these type of schools.  If they were absolutely set out to get a head coaching job they could get one.  But, why would they just take any job at any place, when they could make similar or more money being assistants here at Arkansas?  And with TJ Cleveland he's still really young, I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to continue to learn under Coach Anderson, especially at his Alma Mater.  I mean just look at coach Anderson he was an assistant for 18 years under Nolan.  Arkansas was premier program while Nolan was here, you think he couldn't have got a head coaching job anytime he wanted?  He seemed to find a job pretty quickly with UAB after Arkansas didn't offer him the job.  Everybody doesn't just want to jump around and just take a job just to say they are a head coach.  If you are in a good situation, you can wait around and be picky and choose the right situation.

Your posts are actually hilarious. Good lord you're out of touch.

steveaustin69

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 02:26:11 pm
That's what i mean by too emotional.  It's one extreme or another extreme with some of you guys.  I've yet to see in this thread where anyone has said they are perfectly happy with where the program is after year 7 under CMA, and I've yet to see anyone tell someone to shut and be happy. If you seen that please point it and quote it because I think most would agree that person is wearing hog colored glasses because there should be some cause for concern. 

What some of us are simply saying is it's not as bad as some of you are making it out to be and we could be in a much worst situation and if a change is made it has to be the right fit at the right time otherwise we could set this program back again, which nobody wants to see.  Any reasonable person can understand that, but I guess it may be too much to ask for some people to leave emotion out of it and see that.

You must not read too good then

Mike Irwin

I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas. He won't be fired but supposedly he will retire if he thinks he's not moving the program forward. The word is he's pretty excited right now because he believes that recruiting has picked up. He also thinks there will be less cheating because of the FBI probe which, over the next few years, will level the playing field for those coaches who run a clean program.

hobhog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 22, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas. He won't be fired but supposedly he will retire if he thinks he's not moving the program forward. The word is he's pretty excited right now because he believes that recruiting has picked up. He also thinks there will be less cheating because of the FBI probe which, over the next few years, will level the playing field for those coaches who run a clean program.

How can that possibly be in today's college basketball world? It's not like he was won banners and championships and earned the right to retire when he wants. If what you say is true and we don't dance next year and he is retained then Yurachek and administration are not doing their jobs.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MakingPlays on March 22, 2018, 11:21:48 am
You must not have followed Memphis situation.  Tubby got the Memphis job for the job he did at Texas Tech, which was basically pulling them out of the dumpster and making them relevant.  People talk about Chris Beard, but Tubby is the guy that rebuilt that program, He left the program in great shape for Beard.

What happened with Tubby is he rubbed the wrong people the wrong way, has nothing to do with his on the floor coaching.  It started when it was rumored that he'd hire Penny on as an assistant if he got the job, because a lot of Memphis really wanted Penny as apart of the program.  Once Tubby got it he quickly shut those rumors down and let it be known it was his program and he wasn't bringing Penny on.  After that Tubby demoted the Lawson's dad, who was an assistant under Pastner. When he did this the Lawson brothers transferred, and one even made a video that went viral saying "F Tubby."  From there Tubby was pretty much blackballed from getting any of their top recruits in the Memphis area.  His lawyer is currently looking into Penny's role in steering kids away from Memphis.

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2018/03/09/memphis-basketball-tigers-tubby-smith-penny-hardaway-high-school-recruiting-aau-tulsa-cincinnati-aac/411485002/

Tubby got the raw end of that deal.  He was hired to clean the program up and get them back to relevance.  He was in the process of doing that, and outside influences did not allow him to do that.

I live in a Memphis suburb and I'm very familiar with them. Tubby did it to himself but that was his prerogative as the head coach. He should be able to hire and fire whomever he feels like. The ONLY outside sources that influenced his firing was a huge drop in attendance and his not getting out in the community and hobnob with the PTB's like he should have. Also Lawson was only going to be an assistant there for Pastner IF his sons signed with them and they did except the younger one that will now sign with Penny since he played on his East high school state championship team this year. Lawson did believe he was going to be retained and was mad when he wasn't.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 22, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas. He won't be fired but supposedly he will retire if he thinks he's not moving the program forward. The word is he's pretty excited right now because he believes that recruiting has picked up. He also thinks there will be less cheating because of the FBI probe which, over the next few years, will level the playing field for those coaches who run a clean program.

So no expectations on him besides don't go Dave Bliss or Sandusky.  Whatever happens it doesn't matter. 

Given you said after the Butler game the season had been a disappointment, did you tell your source how stupid this is?  Remind them of when fans thought the football program was in a similar situation? 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

cram224

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 22, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas. He won't be fired but supposedly he will retire if he thinks he's not moving the program forward. The word is he's pretty excited right now because he believes that recruiting has picked up. He also thinks there will be less cheating because of the FBI probe which, over the next few years, will level the playing field for those coaches who run a clean program.
So you hearing that CMA will not get evaluated after each year. The ptb must have used up all of their pull to get rid of JL.

hamARchy in the USA

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 22, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas. He won't be fired but supposedly he will retire if he thinks he's not moving the program forward. The word is he's pretty excited right now because he believes that recruiting has picked up. He also thinks there will be less cheating because of the FBI probe which, over the next few years, will level the playing field for those coaches who run a clean program.

Hey, it isn't April 1 yet.

porkinsons disease

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on March 22, 2018, 07:08:45 pm
So no expectations on him besides don't go Dave Bliss or Sandusky.  Whatever happens it doesn't matter. 

Given you said after the Butler game the season had been a disappointment, did you tell your source how stupid this is?  Remind them of when fans thought the football program was in a similar situation? 
Like a lot of us have been saying COACH FOR LIFE
This hiding behind he has a great recruiting classcoming in crap is just another excuse for this man. you could give this man M. Johnson and Larry Bird togather and he still would not win. he is a pitiful coach who can,t coach a lick.-fcj 1/22/2011

Sivad

Quote from: Mike Irwin on March 22, 2018, 05:50:47 pm
I'm told that Mike Anderson will decide when he's no longer the coach at Arkansas.
Sad but true. Just as we were warned: An Anderson hire means no pressure, no questions, no requirement to produce wins. He can never be fired. Just be Mike Anderson and bring back nostalgic memories of Nolan before he declined.

Locutus_of_Boar

Quote from: systemroot on March 21, 2018, 10:18:42 am
Arkansas fans needs to stop putting the cart before the horse.

Arkansas needs to give up on the overmatched donkey trying to push the cart backwards and get a get a draft horse who is strong enough to drag the cart out of 25 years of mud.