Kentucky's coach is.....

[centralhog]

Sly.  Look at what he did with the kid Goodwin.  Recruited him, did not encourage him to stay as he has with several others.  Goodwin has spent most of his time in the D league.  Cal will recruit a kid that he does no really want to keep other teams from getting thus addition by subtraction.   Just a theory.   

[WarPig88]

Goodwin was a starter for Cal.

He is a good example about why playing for Cal is a myth though. If anything, Cal lowered Goodwin's draft stock.

Kanter was ineligible to even practice and was the highest Kentucky kid taken in the draft.

People have to be stupid to believe that Cal has anything to do with whether these kids make it to the next level or not.

[HSVhogfan2]

Goodwin got 3.2 mil guaranteed. He had one thing in mind when he went to KY and that was getting to the NBA the next year. Most of the folks in the Suns organization thinks he will be on their main roster soon.

[twistitup]

..the target of jealous people

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

I wish we would have landed him but I enjoyed watching him play so horribly against us two years ago in BWA.

[HSVhogfan2]

..the target of jealous people

[Randy Johnson]

creepy...he is creepy

[Danny J]

Goodwin was a starter for Cal.

He is a good example about why playing for Cal is a myth though. If anything, Cal lowered Goodwin's draft stock.

Kanter was ineligible to even practice and was the highest Kentucky kid taken in the draft.

People have to be stupid to believe that Cal has anything to do with whether these kids make it to the next level or not.

I agree.......

PS....I could care less if Goodwin ever played a game in the NBA.

[Hawg Red]

Sly.  Look at what he did with the kid Goodwin.  Recruited him, did not encourage him to stay as he has with several others.  Goodwin has spent most of his time in the D league.  Cal will recruit a kid that he does no really want to keep other teams from getting thus addition by subtraction.   Just a theory.   

Archie Goodwin is one of the youngest players in the NBA at just 20 years old. A lot of first round picks spend extended time in the D-League. Goodwin's been behind Goran Dragic, Eric Bledsoe, Gerald Green and Isaiah Thomas for most of his career thus far. Dragic and Thomas are now gone, and Green is a free agent this summer. The Suns have stated that their plan all along was to develop Archie slowly and have him as a rotation member by his 3rd season. It appears the situation is trending in that direction.

And, by the way, look at what another Kentucky rookie (James Young) is experiencing in his first NBA season:

June 26, 2014: Drafted by the Boston Celtics in the 1st round (17th pick) of the 2014 NBA Draft.

July 10, 2014: Signed a multi-year contract with the Boston Celtics

November 15, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

November 17, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

November 23, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

November 24, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 4, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 5, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 6, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 7, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 9, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 11, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 28, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 29, 2014: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

December 31, 2014: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

January 1, 2015: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

January 3, 2015: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

January 5, 2015: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

January 31, 2015: Assigned to the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

February 1, 2015: Recalled from the Maine Red Claws of the D-League.

It happens. Adreian Payne, drafted just outside of the lottery, has played more in the D-League than the NBA this season. And he's about 3 1/2 years older than Archie. It's all about circumstance and situation with these players.

[WarPig88]

Archie Goodwin is one of the youngest players in the NBA at just 20 years old. A lot of first round picks spend extended time in the D-League. Goodwin's been behind Goran Dragic, Eric Bledsoe, Gerald Green and Isaiah Thomas for most of his career thus far. Dragic and Thomas are now gone, and Green is a free agent this summer. The Suns have stated that their plan all along was to develop Archie slowly and have him as a rotation member by his 3rd season. It appears the situation is trending in that direction.

And, by the way, look at what another Kentucky rookie (James Young) is experiencing in his first NBA season:


It happens. Adreian Payne, drafted just outside of the lottery, has played more in the D-League than the NBA this season. And he's about 3 1/2 years older than Archie. It's all about circumstance and situation with these players.

This is exactly why both the NBA and the NCAA are being negatively impacted by the current system.

Guys are not able to build a brand in the D league because they get no exposure. They can in the NCAA.

Instead of having more NCAA teams with great players, which make for more great games, these guys toil in obscurity for a fan base that doesn't exist.

Whoever argued that the one and done was not hurting the college game because we get to see these kids for one year is using sketchy logic at best. Players are almost ALWAYS better as upper classmen regardless of talent level.

Instead of seeing guys who aren't NBA ready but still great for a college player, we don't see them at all when they go the one and done route. Most of these guys go on and become role players at the next level so they never do gain much of a following.

There was a time when Major League Baseball was extremely popular. During that time they started allowing their minor league system to dwindle in size substantially. Previously, nearly everyone knew someone who played in the minors somewhere and felt a connection to a team. Less teams meant less players and eventually less connections.

College basketball is already suffering from this somewhat as it's biggest stars aren't necessarily the stars come draft day.

The NBA will feel the effects of what they are doing eventually by not allowing their future stars to endear themselves to someone besides the city they end up in and die hard NBA fans only.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Sly.  Look at what he did with the kid Goodwin.  Recruited him, did not encourage him to stay as he has with several others.  Goodwin has spent most of his time in the D league.  Cal will recruit a kid that he does no really want to keep other teams from getting thus addition by subtraction.   Just a theory.   

If Archie couldn't see Cal for what he was and has been, then he deserved whatever came his way because of that decision to go to UK.

No pity whatsoever for Mr. Goodwin.  He got exactly what he wanted.

[Hawg Red]

This is exactly why both the NBA and the NCAA are being negatively impacted by the current system.

Guys are not able to build a brand in the D league because they get no exposure. They can in the NCAA.

Instead of having more NCAA teams with great players, which make for more great games, these guys toil in obscurity for a fan base that doesn't exist.

Whoever argued that the one and done was not hurting the college game because we get to see these kids for one year is using sketchy logic at best. Players are almost ALWAYS better as upper classmen regardless of talent level.

Instead of seeing guys who aren't NBA ready but still great for a college player, we don't see them at all when they go the one and done route. Most of these guys go on and become role players at the next level so they never do gain much of a following.

There was a time when Major League Baseball was extremely popular. During that time they started allowing their minor league system to dwindle in size substantially. Previously, nearly everyone knew someone who played in the minors somewhere and felt a connection to a team. Less teams meant less players and eventually less connections.

College basketball is already suffering from this somewhat as it's biggest stars aren't necessarily the stars come draft day.

The NBA will feel the effects of what they are doing eventually by not allowing their future stars to endear themselves to someone besides the city they end up in and die hard NBA fans only.

I mostly agree, but that's the current system. The NCAA is pretty much powerless, though. But it sounds like Adam Silver really wants that two-year age limit. Players' association, not so much. I think Silver will get it done, though.

[WarPig88]

I mostly agree, but that's the current system. The NCAA is pretty much powerless, though. But it sounds like Adam Silver really wants that two-year age limit. Players' association, not so much. I think Silver will get it done, though.

The NCAA has more power than most realize in this. These kids do still want to "build their brand" but they can't without the NCAA and that is a fact. Most players are not LeBron or Kobe and will never get that kind of exposure without playing in college somewhere. Talking smaller endorsements and other things available besides simply a player's salary.

If the NCAA were to make One and Done's negatively affect APR by requiring that the players must graduate within given time period of the start of their eligibility, you would not see anyone trying to sign 5 of these kinds of kids per year.

If all they accomplished was to spread the talent out over a larger number of schools it would be better than it is now.

[Thepigdoctor]

I mostly agree, but that's the current system. The NCAA is pretty much powerless, though. But it sounds like Adam Silver really wants that two-year age limit. Players' association, not so much. I think Silver will get it done, though.

Actually both sides want it, but as usual, it's a bargaining chip to be played. Giving this up will come at a cost to the NBA. That's yet to be determined.

Think about this though, it benefits the players in the league right now more than anyone. For the next two years, there'd be a huge talent drop of to compete against. You'd had players otherwise not drafted, taken in the second round as you'd likely lose 10-15 first round picks, depending on how many freshmen actually wanted to declare. Less talented draft picks mean easier job retention for veterans, a higher demand on proven (even if they've reached their ceiling) players, maybe a handful of the expiring rookies get a few one or two year contracts where they might have been previously out of work, and overall the draft is considered weaker because of those talented freshmen being left out, putting a higher premium on players up for free agency/big contract years.

Of course, it's all a game of who has the leverage chip the other one wants, so they'll be too stupid to realize the immediate benefit to gain for its members. Hopefully some of those things will click soon, the NBA will give up something worthless to them in the grand scheme of things, and college basketball can enjoy a resurgence.

We will still have some of the same problems, but I believe if a kid knows he has to spend two years somewhere, he's going to weigh some additional factors like location, favorite team as a kid, etc, instead of just, who can guarantee me enough exposure to be one and done.

[scorekeeper]

The NCAA has more power than most realize in this. These kids do still want to "build their brand" but they can't without the NCAA and that is a fact. Most players are not LeBron or Kobe and will never get that kind of exposure without playing in college somewhere. Talking smaller endorsements and other things available besides simply a player's salary.

If the NCAA were to make One and Done's negatively affect APR by requiring that the players must graduate within given time period of the start of their eligibility, you would not see anyone trying to sign 5 of these kinds of kids per year.

If all they accomplished was to spread the talent out over a larger number of schools it would be better than it is now.

College basketball has been under hospice care sine AAU has turned into the beast that it is. Most of the kids build their brand in AAU, Youtube, and recruiting services. Although hospice care might be a little extreme, because I have started back to enjoying college basketball a lot more over the past couple years. 

I would like to see the talent spread out over a larger number of schools, but it doesn't seem that much stock is put into being "The Man/Leader of the team" if it all pays the same.

[sowmonella]

#ontheedge.

[Danny J]

This is exactly why both the NBA and the NCAA are being negatively impacted by the current system.

Guys are not able to build a brand in the D league because they get no exposure. They can in the NCAA.

Instead of having more NCAA teams with great players, which make for more great games, these guys toil in obscurity for a fan base that doesn't exist.

Whoever argued that the one and done was not hurting the college game because we get to see these kids for one year is using sketchy logic at best. Players are almost ALWAYS better as upper classmen regardless of talent level.

Instead of seeing guys who aren't NBA ready but still great for a college player, we don't see them at all when they go the one and done route. Most of these guys go on and become role players at the next level so they never do gain much of a following.

There was a time when Major League Baseball was extremely popular. During that time they started allowing their minor league system to dwindle in size substantially. Previously, nearly everyone knew someone who played in the minors somewhere and felt a connection to a team. Less teams meant less players and eventually less connections.

College basketball is already suffering from this somewhat as it's biggest stars aren't necessarily the stars come draft day.

The NBA will feel the effects of what they are doing eventually by not allowing their future stars to endear themselves to someone besides the city they end up in and die hard NBA fans only.

AND that above doesn't even take into consideration overseas play where many of these guys who don't get drafted and are not in the D league go. So in many of these players minds it is "hey...if I don't get drafted, don't get signed I can always go overseas". So that hurts as well.

[MountieDawg]

On a side note, Calipari's former players are now under contract for more than a billion dollars. With that being said Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Terrence Jones and Enes Kanter plus more are still under the NBA 1st three years of their contract on controlled contracts... I am sure Davis next contract will be well over $100 million.

Archie really never bought into the team 1st system and was determined to do things his way... Archie probably would have done better somewhere else, he wanted to score 30 a game...

Here are the Kentucky players in the NBA
http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-players

[Jamie Jones]

IF the NBA and NCAA agree that players have to be 2 or 3 years removed from the high school ranks to play professionally, it will hinder UK some. They may reload with McDonalds All-Americans every year, but it wont be wholesale changes. Some of those kids will have to go elsewhere. And more of them will likely go where they aren't competing for playing time behind 2 other players at their position. Kentucky wins in basketball the same way Barry Switzer said that he won at OU and Jimmy Johnson won at UM in football..."the team with the most talent nearly always wins". Cal replenishes and manages his talent. How is does the latter, makes him appear to be an elite coach. How he does the former, makes him questionable at best. As an opponent, I don't like him. If he were our coach, I'd support him, but I wouldn't trust him and I'd never be surprised at the outcome. 

[NATEHOGG216]

On a side note, Calipari's former players are now under contract for more than a billion dollars. With that being said Anthony Davis, Nerlens Noel, Michael Kidd Gilchrist, Terrence Jones and Enes Kanter plus more are still under the NBA 1st three years of their contract on controlled contracts... I am sure Davis next contract will be well over $100 million.

Archie really never bought into the team 1st system and was determined to do things his way... Archie probably would have done better somewhere else, he wanted to score 30 a game...

Here are the Kentucky players in the NBA
http://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conferences/Southeastern-Conference/8/Kentucky/258/nba-players

I'm confused why this matters or what it proves.  if I would have coached those kids they would have been lottery picks. Cal is a hell of a recruiter no doubt. Doesn't prove ANYTHING about if he is a good coach or not.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

Stays on his kness around William Wesley....

[bigdaddyhawg]

I'm confused why this matters or what it proves.  if I would have coached those kids they would have been lottery picks. Cal is a hell of a recruiter no doubt. Doesn't prove ANYTHING about if he is a good coach or not.

To find out if he's a good coach or not, all one must do is look at the product on the floor.

His ability to get these McDonald's All-Americans to play selflessly, play rock hard defense, and to share minutes willingly, with no hint of ego or team chemistry problems is absolutely amazing to me.

Not addressing his character faults, which are considerable, the guy is a great, great college basketball coach.

[MountieDawg]

I'm confused why this matters or what it proves.  if I would have coached those kids they would have been lottery picks. Cal is a hell of a recruiter no doubt. Doesn't prove ANYTHING about if he is a good coach or not.

For a good comparison look at McDonalds All Americans that play for Pitino vs Calipari.  Pitino has had 9 and only Peyton Siva is playing in the NBA averaging 2 points per game. Actually more of Pitino's have been arrested than played in the NBA. So maybe you can get them to succeed in the NBA but Pitino can't. You should call Louisville and ask for his job.

Bill Self's guys are not as bad a Pitino's but not the success of Cal's.

Coach K off all of his players while at Duke only has 1 guy in the NBA averaging more than 15 points per game and no one averaging more than 6 rebounds per game. Just Cal's guys from his 5 years at UK has 5 guys averaging more than 15 points and 5 guys averaging more than 6 rebounds per game.

So you are a better coach than Self, Pitino and Coach K!!! CONGRATS!!!

[HSVhogfan2]

If Archie couldn't see Cal for what he was and has been, then he deserved whatever came his way because of that decision to go to UK.

No pity whatsoever for Mr. Goodwin.  He got exactly what he wanted.

LOL. He got 3.2 million.......... In his FIRST contract. How much will the average person posting in this thread make in a lifetime?

[Jackrabbit Hog]

MountieDawg, I don't think anyone is arguing against you that the NBA is full of Cal's recruits, or that most of them produce (and get paid handsomely) once they get there.  I think what some are saying is that with the recruits he gets, that's the way it should be and they would be in the NBA whether Cal coached them for a year or two, or not.  Your argument is that Cal does more to develop McD's All Americans than any other college coach.  Have you considered that everybody else is right, but you are too?  Cal is on record now as saying that his primary goal is to get his players to the NBA.  I don't think you'll find another college coach in America that would echo that sentiment.  So he is accomplishing his goal rather well, while other coaches focus more on team ball. 

I will say this...Cal has been very fortunate that his best two groups of recruits at Kentucky (the Anthony Davis group and the current group) had the rare quality of being not only uber-talented but also, seemingly, high character and high IQ kids that weren't selfish.  How much of that was due to Cal and how much of it was inherent in those kids is open to question.  For every Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, there's an Archie Goodwin and a DeMarcus Cousins. 

[Albert Einswine]

guaranteed to leave his current program just before the NCAA rides in and bludgeons the hammered crap out of it.

[MountieDawg]

MountieDawg, I don't think anyone is arguing against you that the NBA is full of Cal's recruits, or that most of them produce (and get paid handsomely) once they get there.  I think what some are saying is that with the recruits he gets, that's the way it should be and they would be in the NBA whether Cal coached them for a year or two, or not.  Your argument is that Cal does more to develop McD's All Americans than any other college coach.  Have you considered that everybody else is right, but you are too?  Cal is on record now as saying that his primary goal is to get his players to the NBA.  I don't think you'll find another college coach in America that would echo that sentiment.  So he is accomplishing his goal rather well, while other coaches focus more on team ball. 

I will say this...Cal has been very fortunate that his best two groups of recruits at Kentucky (the Anthony Davis group and the current group) had the rare quality of being not only uber-talented but also, seemingly, high character and high IQ kids that weren't selfish.  How much of that was due to Cal and how much of it was inherent in those kids is open to question.  For every Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, there's an Archie Goodwin and a DeMarcus Cousins. 

I respect you see that he does get high character kids with high basketball IQ and he has quit recruiting many kids due to issues. Cousins has never been arrested, he us rough on the court and will get in a fight on the court. Cal kept him under control and he was always great with fans and kids at Kentucky. He also has done many things to give back to the community at Sacramento. He is like many football players a beast on the court and a Teddy bear off the court. Goodwin, He never bought into the Kentucky way, probably would have preferred to go somewhere that he could shoot 25 times a game.

[Randy Johnson]

guaranteed to leave his current program just before the NCAA rides in and bludgeons the hammered crap out of it.

[chenalhog]

Sly.  Look at what he did with the kid Goodwin.  Recruited him, did not encourage him to stay as he has with several others.  Goodwin has spent most of his time in the D league.  Cal will recruit a kid that he does no really want to keep other teams from getting thus addition by subtraction.   Just a theory.   

your idiot   goodwin was top 50 recruit

[lefty08]

I respect you see that he does get high character kids with high basketball IQ and he has quit recruiting many kids due to issues. Cousins has never been arrested, he us rough on the court and will get in a fight on the court. Cal kept him under control and he was always great with fans and kids at Kentucky. He also has done many things to give back to the community at Sacramento. He is like many football players a beast on the court and a Teddy bear off the court. Goodwin, He never bought into the Kentucky way, probably would have preferred to go somewhere that he could shoot 25 times a game.

Our own Corliss Williamson can claim a lot of the turn around of Cousins. Its been speculated it's the main reason they wanted Corliss as coach to begin with was to mentor cousins. Dude was a goof off the court as well as on it for a good bit

[MountieDawg]

Our own Corliss Williamson can claim a lot of the turn around of Cousins. Its been speculated it's the main reason they wanted Corliss as coach to begin with was to mentor cousins. Dude was a goof off the court as well as on it for a good bit

You are probably right, I am sure he has been a good influence too.

[870hogfan]

Is a cheat and I hope he puts Kentucky on probation.

[Randy Johnson]

gonna snow again in northern arkansas

[Cresthog]

there's an Archie Goodwin and a DeMarcus Cousins. 

Yea these two are just totally failing. Especially Cousins being a top 5 big man in the NBA, if not Top 3.

[Hogfaniam]

... talked about entirely too much on this Hog message board.   

[jmb1973]

your idiot   goodwin was top 50 recruit

oh the irony

[Hog Fan from Camden]

... talked about entirely too much on this Hog message board.   

This!

[bigdaddyhawg]

LOL. He got 3.2 million.......... In his FIRST contract. How much will the average person posting in this thread make in a lifetime?

If that was the height of his career, I'd say he probably could have taken a better route, one that gave him the prep in college he didn't get as a Kentucky one and done.

You know, big picture:  long term success vs. immediate gain, that sort of thing.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Yea these two are just totally failing. Especially Cousins being a top 5 big man in the NBA, if not Top 3.

I wasn't referring to NBA success.  I was talking about lack of maturity and attitude problems while in college.  That was the conversation.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

To find out if he's a good coach or not, all one must do is look at the product on the floor.

His ability to get these McDonald's All-Americans to play selflessly, play rock hard defense, and to share minutes willingly, with no hint of ego or team chemistry problems is absolutely amazing to me.

Not addressing his character faults, which are considerable, the guy is a great, great college basketball coach.

I seriously doubt he's the only coach that could achieve these results. As for the $ that his former players have signed for in the NBA, start adding up Dean Smith's player's earnings. For that matter, how much $ can Kobe's high school coach  claim?

[Danny J]

to my point in another thread....Mann catches the ball wide open at 8' and instead of shooting he tries to drive down low and shoot over two 7' UK players and gets it blocked. Unreal. Just a very low IQ basketball play. At least they were bailed out on the last second 3.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

LOL. He got 3.2 million.......... In his FIRST contract. How much will the average person posting in this thread make in a lifetime?

Al Capone had a net worth of over $100 million (which would make him a Billionaire today) and he died over 60 years ago. Your point?

[Hogfaniam]

...getting fat.  Back away from the buffet Cal.  Must be stress eating due to the win streak.

[Rawker]

... talked about entirely too much on this Hog message board.   

Gawd, yes.  Please stop this crap.

[greasy_corner]

..the target of jealous people

...the object of affection of the high post count crowd from opposing schools

[elksnort]

To find out if he's a good coach or not, all one must do is look at the product on the floor.

His ability to get these McDonald's All-Americans to play selflessly, play rock hard defense, and to share minutes willingly, with no hint of ego or team chemistry problems is absolutely amazing to me.

Not addressing his character faults, which are considerable, the guy is a great, great college basketball coach.
[/This

[ChicoHog]

To find out if he's a good coach or not, all one must do is look at the product on the floor.

His ability to get these McDonald's All-Americans to play selflessly, play rock hard defense, and to share minutes willingly, with no hint of ego or team chemistry problems is absolutely amazing to me.

Not addressing his character faults, which are considerable, the guy is a great, great college basketball coach.

100% agree.  their defense is fantastic.  They play pretty good team basketball also for a group of guys who are used to being "the guy". 

[770john111]

Yeah ol Goodwin winless against hogs

[SPAL]

Sec board?

[usf15cc]

Yes please tired of seeing all this uk crap.