Genuine question about the Kentucky/Calipari "system"

[grayhawg]

Its hardly any more One and Done than any of the other top teams like Duke, NC, and Kansas. We just win more than them. And because of that, all of a sudden its a problem.

Why does nobody ever give Cal props for getting them all on the same page every year. Getting new young men in and having them buy into a system where they ARENT the number one option, as they've been their entire lives. Buy into a system where someone like Devin Booker isn't even STARTING, yet somehow still leads the team in scoring. How is that not impressive? Do you not know how hard it is for all the coaches? Hell, all the trainers? All the equipment managers? To get these kids acclimated to the college life and managing that and classes. Oh yeah, by the way, they do go to classes. If they didn't pass those 2nd semester classes, YOU WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. Like...come on.

This OAD team has what? 2 freshmen starting? Its not even outrageous anymore. This isn't the John Wall team that really didn't do anything. Why is there so much hate for the "system"? Its only because the team is still winning. We have older players on the roster as well, and look at that, everything meshes perfectly. Cal isn't doing anything that anyone else isn't doing. Don't get mad at him. Get mad at Coach K and Self for not doing jack with the top recruits they got.

Oh yeah, blame Cal because Marcus Camby enjoyed some prostitutes and money from sports agents.

Blame Cal because Derrick Rose cheated on his SAT.

LOL. Like...come on. Talk about the game. Stop sounding like Louisville fans.

Do you always troll other team's board?

[mikey2toes]

Do you always troll other team's board?

Is that incorrect? Since Cal has been here, it is undoubtedly true. We win more than them. We beat them in the tourney if need be(Kansas for the NC). We beat them in the regular season(Kansas by 30. NC by some double digit number).

And I registered because he was asking a "genuine question" to UK fans. LOL was it rhetorical? Was it a question directed solely so you guys could talk about how THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME IS GOOOOOOONE. Is it shocking to you that almost every single message board has people asking this question after they lose to us? THEY GOTTA BE CHEATING! 

These guys are making millions off of these kids. There is minimal integrity in this game as is. Its bad enough that half the players in the NCAA have zero real ball skills and hide in a zone for lack of any real athleticism or defensive talent.

Anyways, I was directed here by a post on another site that claimed you guys were bitching. My bad.

[The_Bionic_Pig]

You guy's do realize the majority of all those recruiting classes at Memphis & Kentucky are sponsored by William Wesley and his NBA, Celebrity & Agency contacts who involve themselves in the recruiting process by infiltrating (benefiting) the parents & relatives thus no direct link to Calapari or the institution he represents.

This perfect machine = #1 recruiting class each year

[grayhawg]

Is that incorrect? Since Cal has been here, it is undoubtedly true. We win more than them. We beat them in the tourney if need be(Kansas for the NC). We beat them in the regular season(Kansas by 30. NC by some double digit number).

And I registered because he was asking a "genuine question" to UK fans. LOL was it rhetorical? Was it a question directed solely so you guys could talk about how THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME IS GOOOOOOONE. Is it shocking to you that almost every single message board has people asking this question after they lose to us? THEY GOTTA BE CHEATING! 

These guys are making millions off of these kids. There is minimal integrity in this game as is. Its bad enough that half the players in the NCAA have zero real ball skills and hide in a zone for lack of any real athleticism or defensive talent.

Anyways, I was directed here by a post on another site that claimed you guys were bitching. My bad.

In case it has somehow escaped you, UK has been cheating before Cal got there. Even when Sutton was there Kentucky was paying recruits.

[elksnort]

Good post.  +1 

Calipari has always recruited well.  He did at UMass and Memphis and now here with the main difference being he doesn't really have to cheat at UK.  He's had to have been in bed with the AAU coaches to get the talent he got and Nolan hated dealing with those people and said so.  Really good post

Today we just got beat by a better team and unfortunately we had their full attention.  I was proud of our team today.  We competed hard and never quit and that's a characteristic of a Nolan/Mike  coached team. 

[Gonzo]

You guy's do realize the majority of all those recruiting classes at Memphis & Kentucky are sponsored by William Wesley and his NBA, Celebrity & Agency contacts who involve themselves in the recruiting process by infiltrating (benefiting) the parents & relatives thus no direct link to Calapari or the institution he represents.

This perfect machine = #1 recruiting class each year

Yeah, poor, innocent Calipari. That dang unethical AAU machine just keeps following him around every time he tries to leave and get away from it


Go Hogs!

[98hogs]

Hard to trace black bags with cash

[Paul]

And even before Sutton was there....

Adolph Rupp made Cal look like a saint.  However, they still beat us on the court today

[Boarcephus]

But in three years time, that can get one if they choose to.  And some have.

Sure some have but it doesn't change the fact that players go to Bama and Saban first and foremost  because he puts players in the NFL and not  for a degree.  OL come to the UofA because they know Bielema and Pittman put OL in the NFL not because the UofA offers some degree they can't get at some other college. 

[root_hawg]

Actually Bama had the highest number of Academic All Americans in the SEC last year ... kind of shoots down that theory of them going to class at Bama

[jbigs77]

I've heard so many call him a cheater, etc etc, but the problem is, he's not cheating.  I heard him on the radio the other night say that his only goal is to get all his players drafted.  And if you don't want to be one and done, don't come to Kentucky.  So he gets to pick and choose and then the rest recruit who's left.  It's legal,  it's brilliant, but it is an abomination of what college basketball ought to be about.  I can't help but wonder about the life long UK fans.  I mean, I know everyone loves to win, but if it were me, even though I would love to win, I think it also would feel kind of hollow.  These guys couldn't care less about Wildcat tradition and the university.  I'm naïve enough to think that should matter.   And not because of the outcome of today's game, but just in general, I truly don't believe it's right and I don't believe it's good for college basketball.
The Hogs are a college basketball team that rose from being pretty bad with a new coach rebuilding the program.  They've accomplished an amazing amount of success in the past few years as Anderson is building a program with the players he convinced to join us.  It's how it is supposed to work and it is something to be proud of.  But today all we see is a pro team playing a college team and it sucks.
I guess we should be honored that we got their full attention because of our recent record against them and our status as the 2nd place team.  When LSU, aTm, and Ole Miss took them to the wire, I guarantee you they mailed it in.  But not today.
Does anyone else think the NCAA is going to have to make some changes or have some serios, serios problems in the hear future?

Well said, I agree

[Inhogswetrust]

The thing is, UK gets singled out.  What Knight (and others say) basically sums up what major college athletics (football and basketball) has become.  There are hundreds of things that aren't "pure for college athletics" but the sports still go on with bigger and bigger $$$ every year.  I mean look at the new NCAA Tournament or college football playoff broadcasting contracts?  That amount of money screams everything BUT pure amateur athletics.

IU wonder if you felt that way about Cal or the NCAA when he was at Umass or Memphis?

[cypert2]

It's much easier to just play basketball when his team doesn't have to go to class the 2nd semester. They only have to stay eligible for one since they are leaving after year one. This loophole is the only thing I have ever agreed with Bobby Knight on.

Agree with you and Bobby.  They should be penalized for the players that only go to school one semester. They are basically an NCAA sanctioned NBA farm team, not a college basketball team.

[cypert2]

tl;dr

ts;dr

[Hogs-n-Roses]

The schools he left were punished. He never was. I agree with Bobby Knight who says the whole thing that's going on at Kentucky is an abomination for college athletics.

There's nothing about going there that says "student athlete" except that they have to remain eligible while they are there. Basically Kentucky serves the same purpose for its basketball players as a high school prep school. It exists to get them to the next level of basketball.


Calipari's history suggests that he will take another job when he gets wind that the NCAA is closing in on his program.

This. KY buys their championships. They are the Bama of baxetball. Coach turns his head. Boosters funnel cash to recruits families. Google NCAA probation basketball Kentucky. This is their history. Its what they do. I know a couple of KY folks that openly admit it. they just feel like everyone should do it. NCAA/SEC tolerate it cause the NCAA feels (Just like in football wit Bama) that when KY is on top of the BB world its better for the sport. These schools feel like the NCAA s rules shouldn't keep them from being on top. They win their championships over given periods of time,get caught, and have to be punished(better be blatant n lots of proof), give up certain wins n championships, make a fortune, serve their probations, hire another blind coach n carry on.

[Kevin]

Can you provide an article where the NCAA says he cheated, cause I can provide one where it says he was cleared? 

All that means is they could not find a paper trail to his desk. Coaches that get caught are the ones that have a trail to their desk. Like tressel

[KentuckyFan]

IU wonder if you felt that way about Cal or the NCAA when he was at Umass or Memphis?

I'll freely admit, I liked Calipari's UMass teams, because it was one of the few powerful mid-majors.  However, I grew to dislike his Memphis teams.  Now, you have to consider that UK's teams during Cal's prime at Memphis were some of the worst at UK (Tubby's last few years, Gillispie's 2 years).  Was some of that jealously that another team in blue/white was winning a lot and pulling in many recruits UK used to get?  Yes.  Part of it was their style of play and Cal himself.  So I'd say I was indifferent to Cal, didn't really hate him, but didn't really like him either.

With that said, it doesn't change what I said previously.  What major college sports has become today isn't at all what it was 20 years ago.  To single out one portion of that and whine that it isn't "pure" doesn't make sense.

[hoghiker]

Duke had 4 McD in last year's game and currently leads the way this year with 2 McD commitments.

No one knows that he cheats.

Somebody does.

[sigpooie]

The problem is not Cheatipairi it's the Admin that does not stop it or turn them in. Just as it is and always shall be at Bama schools, Texas Schools and West coast schools. They need the funds so they look the other way while someone like Cheatipairi does his thing. Millions are spent on this so to say it's not cheating is blind to good and fail play. Most schools they are competing with can not afford to play this game.
I think we are seeing then end of it with these clowns adding 9 players like this to one team (makes the paper trail tighter) and they might be doing so to cash in as much as they can to hire all the legal help they will need when it falls apart. Also understand that Ky has always cheated (re: eddie and the fedex, Joe and the handshakes walking though the mall going into rupp.

[donk]

It is what it is.  No one likes Cal but everyone likes winning.  2 years ago UK didn't make the NCAAT and lost in the first round of the NIT.  My UK friends hated the OAD then.  Winning fixes everything.  Their OAD system will make for erratic success. 

It's also nice that the entire nation can hate one team.

[ROBLYNNM]

I wish college basketball was like college baseball.  If you want to go pro right out of high school, fine.  But if you sign with a college you have to stay three years. 

This would make the game a LOT better.

Didn't one of the owners of an NBA team say basically the same thing?  And I agree with you. 

[WarPig88]

You have 2 finish the 2nd semester or it kills APR.

Not really, you just have to be in good academic standing.

[WarPig88]

I'll freely admit, I liked Calipari's UMass teams, because it was one of the few powerful mid-majors.  However, I grew to dislike his Memphis teams.  Now, you have to consider that UK's teams during Cal's prime at Memphis were some of the worst at UK (Tubby's last few years, Gillispie's 2 years).  Was some of that jealously that another team in blue/white was winning a lot and pulling in many recruits UK used to get?  Yes.  Part of it was their style of play and Cal himself.  So I'd say I was indifferent to Cal, didn't really hate him, but didn't really like him either.

With that said, it doesn't change what I said previously.  What major college sports has become today isn't at all what it was 20 years ago.  To single out one portion of that and whine that it isn't "pure" doesn't make sense.

Your coach is a scummy cheater.

He didn't start "recruiting" well at Memphis until he met WorldWideWesley. He simply found a loophole and exploited it. Rose was never an eligible player either.

I am sure WWW isn't the only feeder has anymore if they are smart they change their practices after a while so as not to develop a clear pattern that can be traced. Cal has learned that AAU types with connections can steer kids to your program by doing anything a booster might do like make promises and provide cash but that they aren't traceable back to your school.

It sucks, but it's technically legal and gives the coach plausible deniability. Something Cal has always made sure to have. Not completely clean, just muddy the waters enough to claim no knowledge of the wrong doing.

He's scum. Bad for college basketball, but certainly in line with Kentucky's rich tradition of cheating. Adolph Rupp, Eddie Sutton, and now Cal.

[nationwish]

Can we stop with how getting one and done type players is "Cal's" system, like he is the only one who goes after these guys. Every major program is tryign to get these players. The difference is that Kentucky seems to get their pick. Locality, previous relationships, and all other factors that normally factor in don't seem to matter when it comes to Kentucky recruiting. Calipari just seems to be that much better in recruiting than everyone else, so much to the point that it is really difficult to believe.

And let's not act like Cal really has a reputation of putting out great players. I'd say John Wall has been his most consistent, and he can't make a team a contender in a weak conference without significant help. Anthony Davis will probably be the best out of there in the next few years, but after that it's all hype. Where is Nerlins Noel? Where are all these other Kentucky superstars? Cal's reputation is in recruiting, not in development. For every successful NBA player out of Kentucky since he's taken over, how many more have there been from Duke? I'd say you get more production out of players from Kansas, as well, and I'm sure I could make a decent list. The fact is that the actual production of former Wildcats does not match their hype, or their draft position.

[william.lane123]

The one and done rule is ruining college basketball! And will only get worse until something is done about it. 

[phadedhawg]

I love SEC basketball and I don't hold much of a grudge against UK for winning.  That school has thirsted for a victory against Arkansas for a few years now and finally got their signature win.  Part of being at this level of success is other teams circle the date and give you their best shot.  Calapari, after years of coming up short, found a way to beat Arkansas. 

This isn't the end of Razorback basketball just because this year we got beat by Kentucky.  It's hard to win on the road and we came up short Saturday. 

oh well. 

Gratz Kentucky.

[lefty08]

Can we stop with how getting one and done type players is "Cal's" system, like he is the only one who goes after these guys. Every major program is tryign to get these players. The difference is that Kentucky seems to get their pick. Locality, previous relationships, and all other factors that normally factor in don't seem to matter when it comes to Kentucky recruiting. Calipari just seems to be that much better in recruiting than everyone else, so much to the point that it is really difficult to believe.

And let's not act like Cal really has a reputation of putting out great players. I'd say John Wall has been his most consistent, and he can't make a team a contender in a weak conference without significant help. Anthony Davis will probably be the best out of there in the next few years, but after that it's all hype. Where is Nerlins Noel? Where are all these other Kentucky superstars? Cal's reputation is in recruiting, not in development. For every successful NBA player out of Kentucky since he's taken over, how many more have there been from Duke? I'd say you get more production out of players from Kansas, as well, and I'm sure I could make a decent list. The fact is that the actual production of former Wildcats does not match their hype, or their draft position.

That's fundamentally not correct for starters

[grayhawg]

Can we stop with how getting one and done type players is "Cal's" system, like he is the only one who goes after these guys. Every major program is tryign to get these players. The difference is that Kentucky seems to get their pick. Locality, previous relationships, and all other factors that normally factor in don't seem to matter when it comes to Kentucky recruiting. Calipari just seems to be that much better in recruiting than everyone else, so much to the point that it is really difficult to believe.

And let's not act like Cal really has a reputation of putting out great players. I'd say John Wall has been his most consistent, and he can't make a team a contender in a weak conference without significant help. Anthony Davis will probably be the best out of there in the next few years, but after that it's all hype. Where is Nerlins Noel? Where are all these other Kentucky superstars? Cal's reputation is in recruiting, not in development. For every successful NBA player out of Kentucky since he's taken over, how many more have there been from Duke? I'd say you get more production out of players from Kansas, as well, and I'm sure I could make a decent list. The fact is that the actual production of former Wildcats does not match their hype, or their draft position.

Please go back and read post #58 in this thread.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Can we stop with how getting one and done type players is "Cal's" system, like he is the only one who goes after these guys. Every major program is tryign to get these players. The difference is that Kentucky seems to get their pick. Locality, previous relationships, and all other factors that normally factor in don't seem to matter when it comes to Kentucky recruiting. Calipari just seems to be that much better in recruiting than everyone else, so much to the point that it is really difficult to believe.

And let's not act like Cal really has a reputation of putting out great players. I'd say John Wall has been his most consistent, and he can't make a team a contender in a weak conference without significant help. Anthony Davis will probably be the best out of there in the next few years, but after that it's all hype. Where is Nerlins Noel? Where are all these other Kentucky superstars? Cal's reputation is in recruiting, not in development. For every successful NBA player out of Kentucky since he's taken over, how many more have there been from Duke? I'd say you get more production out of players from Kansas, as well, and I'm sure I could make a decent list. The fact is that the actual production of former Wildcats does not match their hype, or their draft position.

Sat out first year to rehab injury, now healthy and starting to play lights out basketball.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

John Chaney knew what he was doing

I'd have given anything to have been assigned to security that night during Cal's press conference.  I'd have cleared a path to the podium for Chaney.

[jgphillips3]

One and done needs to go.  We need to go the baseball route and have guys s either go straight pro or make a commitment to their school for three years.  Who cares if some of the best talent will bypass the college game.  That talent is only going to spend one year in college and the historically great programs are the only ones getting those guys for the most part so I see no benefit to the game as a whole.