What's needed to fix recruiting

[PorkRinds]

Bagmen.  Lots and lots of bag men. 

[IronHog]

Bagmen.  Lots and lots of bag men. 

Not true.


Charlie Strong coulda recruited to UA......UA woulda never hired him though.

[atekido]

Fixing the horrible coaching philosophies in Arkansas High School football would net us the greatest  help.  As I have said before,  Arkansas High schools specifically little rock and North have strayed away from kids knowing and being used to playing physical football.  They are all playing west coast, run n shoot, air raid, HUNH schemes.  That does not fit the philosophy of the Razorbacks heck even with Petrino it left a gaping whole called Defense or any time we played a physical team.  It hurts the Razorbacks when the in state recruit are not taught the same philosophy.  It forces Arkansas to look outside the state to fill some holes or forces Arkansas to take in state recruits who do not match what we need. 

[HiggiePiggy]

Location, winning, and the hardest part on fans is time.   Our location isn't going to change so we have to hope our coach can continue to progress as he has done in his first 3 years.  If he gets up to winning 8 to 10 games a year consistently then recruiting will start getting better. 

[Wildhog]

Winning.
Sending out more offers.
Winning.
Hiring some stud recruiters.
Winning.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

You can't fix geography and demographics. For all practical purposes the University of Arkansas is not even in the SEC footprint nor does it share the wealth of talent.

To recruit as well as we do on a national level is honestly quite impressive. But when compared to the SEC its like admiring your newly constructed $650k home sitting among those selling for $2 million and up. Welcome to feeling like the poorest rich dude on the block.

[ricepig]

Winning.
Sending out more offers.
Winning.
Hiring some stud recruiters.
Winning.

Which the most important part is winning.

[BallHog1]

More than Arkansas got from the whole state this year.


    Tyler Wilson (2008)—Football player; starting quarterback for Arkansas Razorbacks; led Greenwood to three consecutive state football titles (2005–07)
    Drew Morgan - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Lucas Miller - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Adam McFain - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Spencer Harris- Illinois Fighting Illini football player.
    Jabe Burgess-Tulsa Golden Hurricane football player.

And it looks like another Morgan is a walk-on this year at the UofA

Thanks. I was trying to think of any before Tyler. Seems like he started a trend.

[Wildhog]

Which the most important part is winning.

You gotta ask yourself, why does Nick Saban put an emphasis on hiring proven, established recruiters?  People always say that Bama recruits itself, but that hasn't changed Saban's approach to hires.  He hires the best recruiters he can find.

[Pork Twain]

You gotta ask yourself, why does Nick Saban put an emphasis on hiring proven, established recruiters?  People always say that Bama recruits itself, but that hasn't changed Saban's approach to hires.  He hires the best recruiters he can find.

Saban hires whoever he wants.  Saban and Bama recruit themselves and we cannot all be Bama.

[Wildhog]

Saban hires whoever he wants.  Saban and Bama recruit themselves.

...lol, okay.  So he puts a ton of emphasis on hiring proven recruiters for nothing?

[Vantage 8 dude]

A major influx of Cash into the LR School System with a systematic plan to rebuild the Football Programs in their and Pulaski County Schools.

Cursed be Federal Henry Woods.

While we're at it then let's certainly not overlook the real "blood sucker" that has played the part of Dracula for the past 10+ plus years and helped continue "stirring the pot" when it comes to stability in the LRSD. That would be the Johnny Cockrill (sp) "wanna be" also known as one John Walker. Heck, the guy has used the district as his own piggy back and check book; he's go the talent to suck juice out of a tried up prune or raisin and still want more, more, more......

[hogsanity]

Problem you will run into in many cases though are the logistics of consolidation.  Where I grew up in North Central AR, there are not a lot of options for consolidating.  Take Mammoth Spring for instance, no football team, but it is quite a drive to either Salem or Highland for a consolidation to make sense and then you also have to get the voters to sign off on it.  This would be the case for all of the 1A schools.

http://www.maxpreps.com/state/basketball/arkansas.htm
http://www.maxpreps.com/state/football/arkansas.htm

What about hybrid consolidation? I know here in Sebastian Cty, Hartford kids who want to play football play for hacket, yet they have their own basketball and baseball teams.

[Wildhog]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/tosh_lupoi_was_a_recruiting_fo.html

Last year, Saban brought in Tosh Lupoi (Rivals' 2010 national recruiter of the year), AS AN INTERN. 

He's since moved to LB coach, but that's just insane.

[ricepig]

Saban hires whoever he wants.  Saban and Bama recruit themselves and we cannot all be Bama.

You gotta ask yourself, why does Nick Saban put an emphasis on hiring proven, established recruiters?  People always say that Bama recruits itself, but that hasn't changed Saban's approach to hires.  He hires the best recruiters he can find.

So, you're saying he doesn't care about getting along with his staff, or hiring good coaches, that he only looks for recruiters?

IMO, a HC needs to hire what feels comfortable with. If it doesn't work out, he'll be looking for a new job. Wasn't Shannon suppose to be an "Ace" recruiter, how did he do overall at Arkansas?

[ricepig]

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/tosh_lupoi_was_a_recruiting_fo.html

Last year, Saban brought in Tosh Lupoi (Rivals' 2010 national recruiter of the year), AS AN INTERN. 

He's since moved to LB coach, but that's just insane.

We don't have the money Bama does, fact. Now, if some of these "fans" of ours would buy tickets, donate to the RF, maybe we could hire some more "analysts".

[Wildhog]

So, you're saying he doesn't care about getting along with his staff, or hiring good coaches, that he only looks for recruiters?

IMO, a HC needs to hire what feels comfortable with. If it doesn't work out, he'll be looking for a new job. Wasn't Shannon suppose to be an "Ace" recruiter, how did he do overall at Arkansas?

I'm sure that he cares about those things, but he won't hire someone that's not a good recruiter.

[Wildhog]

We don't have the money Bama does, fact. Now, if some of these "fans" of ours would buy tickets, donate to the RF, maybe we could hire some more "analysts".

That doesn't change the point.  I hope your argument isn't "Arkansas is too poor to hire recruiters."

[ricepig]

I'm sure that he cares about those things, but he won't hire someone that's not a good recruiter.

As was mentioned above, we aren't Bama, and in the same line of thinking, Bielema isn't Saban.

[ricepig]

That doesn't change the point.  I hope your argument isn't "Arkansas is too poor to hire recruiters."

Sure it does, compare our staff salaries with Bama, LSU, and Auburn.

[Wildhog]

Sure it does, compare our staff salaries with Bama, LSU, and Auburn.

There are plenty of good recruiters out there that we can afford. 

Terrible argument.

[Wildhog]

And last I recall, we were one of the very few programs in the country that doesn't operate in the red.

[ricepig]

And last I recall, we were one of the very few programs in the country that doesn't operate in the red.

Because we don't have a $5.5m assistant coaching staff, we have a $3.5m one.

[Wildhog]

Because we don't have a $5.5m assistant coaching staff, we have a $3.5m one.

The money argument against recruiting just doesn't fly.  Sorry.  I'm sure it makes you feel better, and I get where you're coming from, but it's just not true.

[ricepig]

There are plenty of good recruiters out there that we can afford. 

Terrible argument.

Terrible argument, again, you're only thinking in terms of recruiting, not what the HC wants as far as staff cohesion.

[ricepig]

The money argument against recruiting just doesn't fly.  Sorry.  I'm sure it makes you feel better, but it's just not true.

Sorry, your thinking it's as simple as hiring a recruiter for the same money doesn't fly. I 'm sure you think it's a simple answer and makes you feel better as well.

[Wildhog]

Terrible argument, again, you're only thinking in terms of recruiting, not what the HC wants as far as staff cohesion.

You think Nick Saban and Lane Kiffin are "cohesive?"

Hell no, but they just won a title.

[Wildhog]

Sorry, your thinking it's as simple as hiring a recruiter for the same money doesn't fly. I 'm sure you think it's a simple answer and makes you feel better as well.

If there weren't great recruiters out there making less than what we're paying our assistants, you'd have a point. But again, it just doesn't fly.

[ricepig]

If there weren't great recruiters out there making less than what we're paying our assistants, you'd have a point. But again, it just doesn't fly.

That wish to work here, or for us?

[ricepig]

You think Nick Saban and Lane Kiffin are "cohesive?"

Hell no, but they just won a title.

Well, we ain't Bama, but you already know that.

[Wildhog]

That wish to work here, or for us?

Are you saying CBB can't attract assistants?  So now we're too broke to hire good recruiters and they don't want to work for us, anyway.  That's fantastic.

[Wildhog]

Well, we ain't Bama, but you already know that.

You were just talking about cohesion.  You think Saban and Kiffin are a good "fit?"  You think they're buddies?

[ricepig]

Are you saying CBB can't attract assistants?  So now we're too broke to hire good recruiters and they don't want to work for us, anyway.  That's fantastic.

You tell me, why haven't we hired your "star" recruiter?

[Wildhog]

You tell me, why haven't we hired your "star" recruiter?

Because CBB doesn't seem to put a lot of emphasis on it when making his hires. He's looking for a good coach that he thinks will mesh with the staff, personality-wise.  It's a bit of a different approach for the SEC-W, and maybe it'll work.  I guess we'll find out.

[Biggus Piggus]

Arkansas evaluates very well - just needs to get a little more realism in the decisionmaking process. They cannot afford to move as slowly as they do, deciding when to offer. And they need to give out more offers to keep their list full through the recruiting season. Let's not pretend that everybody's going to commit at once.

[Wildhog]

Arkansas evaluates very well - just needs to get a little more realism in the decisionmaking process. They cannot afford to move as slowly as they do, deciding when to offer. And they need to give out more offers to keep their list full through the recruiting season. Let's not pretend that everybody's going to commit at once.

100% agree.  We wait entirely too long to offer some prospects that we will absolutely end up offering later, anyway.  And then by the time we offer, they've got a ton of good offers and we're behind the 8-ball.

[ricepig]

100% agree.  We wait entirely too long to offer some prospects that we will absolutely end up offering later, anyway.  And then by the time we offer, they've got a ton of good offers and we're behind the 8-ball.

I've got no problem with this, although I completely agree on our in-state offers. And since Bielema prefers not having the signing day shenanigans, it would be prudent to but out a few more.

[buldozer]

The "we aren't Bama", "we don't have the budget for it" and "we can never compete with the likes of those guys" arguments are just not factual any longer. I don't know where the money is going, but the football program has always produced a positive cash flow. Now the SEC Network proceeds have infused over $30M per year of ADDITIONAL new revenue. There is no excuse for razorback football to continue to spend half as much on recruiting as the SEC schools with the best ranked recruiting classes.

If we get out recruited, fine. But it should not be because we are out spent when we have $30M of new revenue coming in due to the SEC Network that we all know is primarily due to the football program! Specifically, top rated recruiters should be hired to concentrate on TX, LA and FL.

[ricepig]

The "we aren't Bama", "we don't have the budget for it" and "we can never compete with the likes of those guys" arguments are just not factual any longer. I don't know where the money is going, but the football program has always produced a positive cash flow. Now the SEC Network proceeds have infused over $30M per year of ADDITIONAL new revenue. There is no excuse for razorback football to continue to spend half as much on recruiting as the SEC schools with the best ranked recruiting classes.

If we get out recruited, fine. But it should not be because we are out spent when we have $30M of new revenue coming in due to the SEC Network that we all know is primarily due to the football program! Specifically, top rated recruiters should be hired to concentrate on TX, LA and FL.

We don't spend half as much, but I knew you would copy and paste this, lol. We spend half as much as TN and Auburn.

Also, the conference gave us $30m total, it all isn't from the SEC Network.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/12974161/southeastern-conference-distribute-record-435m-revenue-member-schools

[buldozer]

Arkansas evaluates very well - just needs to get a little more realism in the decisionmaking process. They cannot afford to move as slowly as they do, deciding when to offer. And they need to give out more offers to keep their list full through the recruiting season. Let's not pretend that everybody's going to commit at once.

Very accurate point. If you look at the top rated recruits in TX on the 247 site, many of the top kids in 2017 class are already committed now to schools all over the US. Many schools outside and inside of TX have prolly half or more of those kids locked down and not one AR commit on the list anywhere. I'm sure we will come in with some before its over due to how thin AR is this year but right now we only have 1 did on our 2017 list from LA, Bama has 8.

[Pork Twain]

...lol, okay.  So he puts a ton of emphasis on hiring proven recruiters for nothing?

I must have missed all those quotes from Saban where he says all he cares about is recruiters.  Easy to look like an all-star when you are recruiting players to Bama or LSU.

[Wildhog]

I must have missed all those quotes from Saban where he says all he cares about is recruiters.  Easy to look like an all-star when you are recruiting players to Bama or LSU.

He's hiring guys that were star recruiters before they got to Bama. 

But now that you mention it, I read an article a while back about how important hiring recruiters is to Saban. Let me see if I can dig it up.

[buldozer]

We don't spend half as much, but I knew you would copy and paste this, lol. We spend half as much as TN and Auburn.

Also, the conference gave us $30m total, it all isn't from the SEC Network.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/12974161/southeastern-conference-distribute-record-435m-revenue-member-schools

Fair enough! Lol. But we are getting over $10M of NEW REVENUE from the SEC Network and only being outspent by less than $1M a year!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/recruiting/2015/02/03/college-football-recruiting-signing-day-sec-power-conferences/22813887/

It just seems ridiculous to me that to not pull out all the stops on something like recruiting when it is so obvious that it is the foundation that a winning program is built upon and it cost so little compared to everything else we have invested in... it is a no-brainer

[Deep Shoat]

You can't "fix" recruiting.  Arkansas HAS to learn how to recruit high upside players and hold on to them.  Keep a large number of RS Jr's and SR's in the program and sprinkle in the limited number of instate studs and even more limited number of out of state studs we can find.

There is no other option.  We just don't have the recruiting base.

[buldozer]

Our 10 year trend is exactly where we are now.... exactly average!

http://espn.go.com/blog/sec/post/_/id/114278/recruiting-rankings-continue-10-year-trend-in-sec

A wise man once said the definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing while expecting different results!

If we want to improve our recruiting we need to change some things.
1. Increase spending on recruiting, we will have to outspend all other SEC schools due to our location
2. Concentrate on the closest states with the most D1 talent, TX, LA, FL
3. Hire a specialist proven top in each of these states to concentrate on it alone

Recruiting is cheap compared to the rest of the football program and has more long term impact on results than any other area other than coaching, which in our case is in good shape

[Wildhog]

He's hiring guys that were star recruiters before they got to Bama. 

But now that you mention it, I read an article a while back about how important hiring recruiters is to Saban. Let me see if I can dig it up.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2350958-nick-saban-and-the-inner-workings-of-his-alabama-recruiting-machine

"Nick only hires coaches who have reputations for being good recruiters," said Cignetti. "Every assistant recruits an area, so Nick wants assistants that have relationships with high school coaches in the specific area that he will be in charge of recruiting. Recruiting is information-gathering and sales. Once we get film of the player, the position coach will evaluate it. He then passes his evaluation along to Nick. And then if Nick decides to make an offer, he's very good at giving people attention, which is really what people want. He's good at developing and maintaining relationships.

[navyhog24]

We need boosters willing to "help" out, good instate crop, and the good ole thing called winning

[BigD94]

It seems like most of the athletes in central Arkansas nowadays are playing basketball rather than football. With AAU and tournaments, basketball has basically become a year round thing now. I think a lot of the good athletes are just strictly playing basketball rather than football. It seems like the last good Little Rock group was around the 04,05 time frame. McFadden, our entire starting defensive line was from LR, Fairchild.

[Sooie71923]

"stud" recruiters are a figment of your imagination. we have some dang good recruiters. some of the best. do they get elite talent to sign with Arkansas? no. but who can? we have 1 championship to our name and 1 loss in a BCS bowl. we havent shown recruits we are a championship program just yet. but we have showed and are showing commitment to becoming one. its nobodies fault that we havent won a championship. just how the cards have fallen.

does bama have a staff of "stud" recruiters? MAYBE but playing for championships every year has to be worth something. high draft pick has to be worth something. our staff could recruit the same at BAMA, FLA or LSU.

the program has more to do with considering the "recruiter" a stud, NOT the players that are signed. the majority of players are gonna goto the school that wins championships and has the best chance to.

so aside from winning championships or throwing cash around, we will continue to have top 25 classes.

and its not a bad thing.

recruiting is the life blood of the program, but it still has to be pumped through. coaches are the brains and the school is the heart. we have heart and mind, we'll always be fine.

[Wildhog]

"stud" recruiters are a figment of your imagination.

Stopped reading here. I can assure you, they're very real. And many of the best ones are in our division.