What's needed to fix recruiting

[kp72204]

I've read countless posts saying we will never get super talent to come to the Hill. I'm asking what is the reason for this. I'm under the impression that the really talented kids (runners, jumpers, hitters), just don't play football. When I was in high school( 1996 Hall High Little Rock), most of the kids were in gangs or just doing drugs. I don't recall really caring at the time, but was it because of after school sports. What's so different about the southern states compared to ours that they can get talent from with-in their state? I don't recall NWA having good talent back then( I could be wrong but hey I was a teenager). Does Little Rock really have a total lack of real talent? What factors are preventing Arkansas from having real strong high school classifications? I'm not trying to be a Negative Nancy or crap on our recruits cause a excited about 3/4 of them, but for the most part, every year we seem to lose out on good recruits. Yes its the best recruits we had a legitimate shot at late, but when the clock strikes midnight......well you get the idea. Sorry for rambling, but it was either vent here or talk to the old lady and well.....she hates how worked u i get over the HOGGS   

[LittlePigMan]

"I'm asking what is the reason for this."

The NEA.

[Murr]

Starting out of the gates winning games.

Winning against big branded opponents; Alabama, LSU, and so on...

Winning the SEC West

Winning the SEC

Getting to the CFP and/or winning our bowl games.

Not constantly replacing OC's and DC's

[redeye]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

2. The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.

3. The difference with southern states is demographics.  Where ever you have large black populations, you have a great recruiting region.  As a state, Arkansas is better then most, but we have a far smaller black population then most SEC states.  This is also a reason why talent in NWA is overstated, because it has the smallest black population in the state.

4. The biggest problem Arkansas faces recruiting is proximity to these large black populations.  Most other SEC schools are much closer to them then Arkansas.  Most players for all schools come from within a 200-300 mile radius from campus and there's just not that many in that radius for Arkansas.

[arlhog]

Coaching can have a huge impact on recruiting.   Look at what Saban did at bama and what freeze did at miss.  But if you have the same coach at both places bama or texasj, they  would out recruit us.   They have more tradition, a bigger in state talent pool, and a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits more that ark does.  And when I say coaching has a big impact, I'm not bashing cbb.  He has done a better job at Arkansas than anyone else has done in a long time. 

[RME]

Starting out of the gates winning games.

Winning against big branded opponents; Alabama, LSU, and so on...

Winning the SEC West

Winning the SEC

Getting to the CFP and/or winning our bowl games.

Not constantly replacing OC's and DC's

[longpig]

[Kamkaizen]

Coaching can have a huge impact on recruiting.   Look at what Saban did at bama and what freeze did at miss.  But if you have the same coach at both places bama or texasj, they  would out recruit us.   They have more tradition, a bigger in state talent pool, and a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits more that ark does.  And when I say coaching has a big impact, I'm not bashing cbb.  He has done a better job at Arkansas than anyone else has done in a long time.

As a student at the U of A, I was a member of the drumline and I had the opportunity to travel to almost every campus and college town in the SEC.  I don't think ANY of them were BETTER than Northwest Arkansas, as far as a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits.  Ever been to Oxford, MS?  What's there that would attract recruits MORE than NWA?  Nothing, in my opinion.  The same would go for every other college town that I visited within the SEC. 

I believe the issue about our university is the national perception of the state of Arkansas.  I relocated to the Atlanta, GA area last year.  As you all probably know, the greater Atlanta area is a hotbed for talented football players.  Most of the people I have encountered in Atlanta don't perceive Arkansas to be a major player in the SEC.  I don't want to bash anyone, but the extended periods of mediocrity we endured under Houston Nutt seem to have really damaged the perception of the Razorbacks, even though we've had some success against some of the teams people actually do consider to be powerhouses in the SEC.  Also, considering our recent history with John L. Smith, and our records under CBB, it's no wonder that kids view Arkansas as an afterthought.  I just think it is going to take an extended period of time of winning 9-10+ games per year, with the occasional trip to the College Football Playoff in order to change perception of the U of A. 

Now, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit.  I live down the street from Archer High School in Lawrenceville, GA.  That school is a powerhouse for football and they have a few players who just signed with SEC schools.  One of the most popular SEC schools, according to kids in this area is....Ole Miss.  Despite the mediocrity of Ole Miss athletics over the years, somehow, that university has found grace with the people in one of the great football hotbeds in the south.  How have they done it?  I'm not sure (though I believe illegal benefits are involved).  But, somehow, the U of A has to find grace in football hotbeds of the south. 

[HankHog]

As a student at the U of A, I was a member of the drumline and I had the opportunity to travel to almost every campus and college town in the SEC.  I don't think ANY of them were BETTER than Northwest Arkansas, as far as a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits.  Ever been to Oxford, MS?  What's there that would attract recruits MORE than NWA?  Nothing, in my opinion.  The same would go for every other college town that I visited within the SEC. 

I believe the issue about our university is the national perception of the state of Arkansas.  I relocated to the Atlanta, GA area last year.  As you all probably know, the greater Atlanta area is a hotbed for talented football players.  Most of the people I have encountered in Atlanta don't perceive Arkansas to be a major player in the SEC.  I don't want to bash anyone, but the extended periods of mediocrity we endured under Houston Nutt seem to have really damaged the perception of the Razorbacks, even though we've had some success against some of the teams people actually do consider to be powerhouses in the SEC.  Also, considering our recent history with John L. Smith, and our records under CBB, it's no wonder that kids view Arkansas as an afterthought.  I just think it is going to take an extended period of time of winning 9-10+ games per year, with the occasional trip to the College Football Playoff in order to change perception of the U of A. 

Now, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit.  I live down the street from Archer High School in Lawrenceville, GA.  That school is a powerhouse for football and they have a few players who just signed with SEC schools.  One of the most popular SEC schools, according to kids in this area is....Ole Miss.  Despite the mediocrity of Ole Miss athletics over the years, somehow, that university has found grace with the people in one of the great football hotbeds in the south.  How have they done it?  I'm not sure (though I believe illegal benefits are involved).  But, somehow, the U of A has to find grace in football hotbeds of the south. 

Very good post and very well written.

[lilRockNDubb]

If we continue beating ole miss and LSU 2 outta 3 years and ever figure out a Bamma win that would continue to build the bridges we need into the Georgia, Alabama, LSU talent pool. We get over the hump of the a&m whoas(which I believe start this coming year) and continue playing 2 Texas schools every year, our bridge into Texas will get stronger. The addition of Enos and especially Anderson will have the Midwest guys looking. And like the poster earlier said winning is the key. This coaching staff will get the cruits looking here. The play on the field and the wins will get them here. Especially the ones looking for a family atmosphere away from their family. We have improved every year under Bielema. He is the man of the hour. He is building something special here. Your dream home isn't build over night. It takes time. But once you see the foundation in place and that frame go up you start visioning the finished product. That foundation is down and that frame is staring us in the face...

[havok]

Nothing to Fix.

It is a process of building stability and "Imprint" the Hawg Brand onto the scene, whereas High school Players, Coaches and the family structure around recruits will automatically know, Ark is a place where integrity exists and Uncommon young men will be made into Very Uncommon Adults ready for all the challenges the world can throw at them. 

Just look back at what has happened in last decade or so.. the end of the Dork era, Petrino came in and changed team philosophy 180 degrees, add to this his abrasive attitude probably turned off players and families we were recruiting.   Then the off the field issues with him, the year of Slappy the Clown as Part time coach, part time vaudeville embarrassing act..   

Now. we have a coach that has put Ark Football Program back on the Football Field where it belongs, Unlike a decade where it seemed when People thought of Ark Football..it was more or less the off the field stuff that first came to mind.

[UAfanatic]

Shear numbers is one aspect.
Population:

Alabama      4,779,736
Arkansas      2,915,918
Florida      18,801,310
Georgia      9,687,653
Kentucky      4,339,367
Louisiana      4,533,372
Mississippi   2,967,297
Missouri      5,988,927
South Carolina   4,625,384
Texas      25,145,561
Tennessee   6,346,105

Winning fights against these numbers.. but basically the number of kids playing football is partially attributed to this.
But, to your point, in Little Rock, the High school game is not what it used to be. the money put in to it and the
importance to the schools is low.
The culture of football 'friday night lights' is not as great in parts of Arkansas as it is in other states still.

I blame part of this to the lack of jobs and college graduate exodus to other states, not allowing a competitive local tax base and
donations to local sports.

fighting this trend, NW arkansas, shows this goes hand in hand with local high school pride.

So basically, fight to have more large business be brought to Arkansas in a better concerted effort.

[The_Iceman]

Fix This:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=AR

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=LA

[VirginiaHog]

Simply a numbers thing. For example. The population of Houston is almost that of the state of Arkansas. So instate talent compared to other sec states is not even comparible. There are exceptions. But this is a big part.

[sylamore]

We need better development and program continuity across the state. Why a tiny town, (Greenwood), and mostly white, produces D1 players regularly while larger towns do not, I think tells much. Truth is, other southern states have better, more intentional player development from grade school up. Folks point to the great coaching at Greenwood, which is true, but the reason behind it is that the town leaders and School Board once made an intentional decision to do what what was necessary to develop such a program, hiring a known coach from Jenks, OK., and the whole town is largely behind it. This (player development) is what even tiny Texas towns try to do, and most Arkansas towns even the large ones do not. If we had a better share of D1 players in our state, recruiting would be much, much easier. For some reason other southern towns just put more emotion, energy and money into player development starting at a young age with continuity up to and through high school. That makes a much bigger difference than folks realize. And all other southern states also have the sadly ubiquitous gang problem as well.  The best way for schools to take care of gang issues is to have better education,  inclusive of better athletics.

[sylamore]

Oklahoma, Miss., AL., are not that much bigger than Arkansas, yet they consistently produce more D1 level players on a per capita basis than we. So far as Texas is concerned yes, Houston and DFW  are certainly bigger than our whole state,, but many of the small TX towns produce more D1 players than our large Arkansas towns. There must be a reason.

[DeltaBoy]

A major influx of Cash into the LR School System with a systematic plan to rebuild the Football Programs in their and Pulaski County Schools.

Cursed be Federal Henry Woods.

[BallHog1]

We need better development and program continuity across the state. Why a tiny town, (Greenwood), and mostly white, produces D1 players regularly while larger towns do not, I think tells much. Truth is, other southern states have better, more intentional player development from grade school up. Folks point to the great coaching at Greenwood, which is true, but the reason behind it is that the town leaders and School Board once made an intentional decision to do what what was necessary to develop such a program, hiring a known coach from Jenks, OK., and the whole town is largely behind it. This (player development) is what even tiny Texas towns try to do, and most Arkansas towns even the large ones do not. If we had a better share of D1 players in our state, recruiting would be much, much easier. For some reason other southern towns just put more emotion, energy and money into player development starting at a young age with continuity up to and through high school. That makes a much bigger difference than folks realize. And all other southern states also have the sadly ubiquitous gang problem as well.  The best way for schools to take care of gang issues is to have better education,  inclusive of better athletics.

How many d1 players have come out of Greenwood?

[arlhog]

Very good post and very well written.

I'm not a big fan of oxford myself and if you look at my post, I said the coach is a big part of it and miss has pretty much waxed us in the recruiting game since freeze has been there.  I love northwest ark, I grew up an hour south of  ua. I don't see us going to texas and getting many of their blue chippers if they are offered by ut and take a trip to 6th street or an Alabama kid that takes a trip to Tuscaloosa.  Arkansas is at a huge disadvantage purely on population alone.  Texas has 2 metro areas that have more people than the entire state and the Birmingham area alone is nearly as big as Arkansas. 

[arlhog]

Very good post and very well written.

I'm not a big fan of oxford myself and if you look at my post, I said the coach is a big part of it and miss has pretty much waxed us in the recruiting game since freeze has been there.  I love northwest ark, I grew up an hour south of  ua. I don't see us going to texas and getting many of their blue chippers if they are offered by ut and take a trip to 6th street or an Alabama kid that takes a trip to Tuscaloosa.  Arkansas is at a huge disadvantage purely on population alone.  Texas has 2 metro areas that have more people than the entire state and the Birmingham area alone is nearly as big as Arkansas. 

[Pork Twain]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

2. The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.

3. The difference with southern states is demographics.  Where ever you have large black populations, you have a great recruiting region.  As a state, Arkansas is better then most, but we have a far smaller black population then most SEC states.  This is also a reason why talent in NWA is overstated, because it has the smallest black population in the state.

4. The biggest problem Arkansas faces recruiting is proximity to these large black populations.  Most other SEC schools are much closer to them then Arkansas.  Most players for all schools come from within a 200-300 mile radius from campus and there's just not that many in that radius for Arkansas.

Very good info here

[Ex-Trumpet]

If we are talking about recruiting instate talent (or lack thereof), one needs to evaluate the education system in the state of Arkansas.  What is the bussing situation?  Do kids go to school where they live?  Is their only way home leaving school at 3:30?

Serious questions...

[jm]

Winning games would make a difference, but I din't know how much. The media drives players to certain schools to a large degree. All of these kids watch sports center or other shows and it impacts their decisions. It makes a difference in the way they view themselves when they are offered by a team, and then hear a former football star say that team X is the best program in history or coach X is the gretest ever. There are a lot of highly recruited players that make a "band wagon" decision to play for who ever is hottest in the media today without really understanding what would really be best for their own future.

[UAfanatic]

How many d1 players have come out of Greenwood?

More than Arkansas got from the whole state this year.


    Tyler Wilson (2008)—Football player; starting quarterback for Arkansas Razorbacks; led Greenwood to three consecutive state football titles (2005–07)
    Drew Morgan - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Lucas Miller - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Adam McFain - Arkansas Razorback Football Player.
    Spencer Harris- Illinois Fighting Illini football player.
    Jabe Burgess-Tulsa Golden Hurricane football player.

And it looks like another Morgan is a walk-on this year at the UofA

[hoghiker]

"I'm asking what is the reason for this."

The NEA.

Good grief.

[hogsanity]

I have said this since before I joined here over a decade ago. Draw a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville and count the number of players who sign with power 5 schools from within that circle. Now do the same for every other sec school. You see the problem, it is population and demographics.

And. the talent the state does produce tends to be similar every year. Rb's, Wr's, te's, ol, and one or 2 dl players. Very very few sec type lb's or cb's. Which, when you look at it, are the spots really holding our defense back.

But it has been more of the lack of talent depth in the state. In a state like Texas or LA or FLa  they can get their DEPTh by getting all the 3 stars out of their own state they want. The 9th or 19th rated player at a position in Bama HS ball is still a pretty good player. The 9th or 10th rated player at a position in AR is usually not being recruited by anyone, at any level.

[MJ2]

Every year on signing day we point to other SEC teams and say "they're cheating"...   I propose we spent $1M per year to hire a Chancellor of NCAA Rule Circumvention and immediately make it his responsibility to see to it that the coaches are provided every angle possible to navigate around any and all rules and regulations necessary to build a championship team.   Give him a $10M per year budget to build his organization and coordinate payments, vehicles, clothes, women, etc to get the team to the final 4 playoff every year and win it 1 out of 3 years.    The earnings from a NC would cover way more than the $11M investment.

[sylamore]

the NSD this year was certainly sad, with us losing many at the last minute. But truth is, we are in the process of fixing recruiting. We got some great players, we just got them early, so we took them for granted. Had we not known of Whaley, Agim, Hammonds, et. al., we would have been turning back flips.  If one looks at our overall player ratings numbers for the last five years in terms of 3-5 stars, the improvement is obvious. We had a good year and came closer than many realize to have a true banner year. I am also confident they will yet find some late players, like they have in the past, to round things out.

Our recruiting is improving and we are building more depth, it is just slower and more difficult than many are willing to accept. And the entire culture throughout the state also needs to change. When CBB proclaimed he did not come to play the Tide but rather to beat them, he set a high bar. Well, if you do not set the bar high you never are able to jump over that height. We are getting there, it just takes time especially when one remembers just how far into the pit our program had fallen for many reasons. As noted in another post, local towns also need to do their thing. But If we keep CBB we will get there.

[Danny J]

We need better development and program continuity across the state. Why a tiny town, (Greenwood), and mostly white, produces D1 players regularly while larger towns do not, I think tells much. Truth is, other southern states have better, more intentional player development from grade school up. Folks point to the great coaching at Greenwood, which is true, but the reason behind it is that the town leaders and School Board once made an intentional decision to do what what was necessary to develop such a program, hiring a known coach from Jenks, OK., and the whole town is largely behind it. This (player development) is what even tiny Texas towns try to do, and most Arkansas towns even the large ones do not. If we had a better share of D1 players in our state, recruiting would be much, much easier. For some reason other southern towns just put more emotion, energy and money into player development starting at a young age with continuity up to and through high school. That makes a much bigger difference than folks realize. And all other southern states also have the sadly ubiquitous gang problem as well.  The best way for schools to take care of gang issues is to have better education,  inclusive of better athletics.

This....

[Stateline Hawg]

Makes you wonder,  LSU almost fires Miles, likely will fire him if another lackluster year occurs.  They were pummeled by the Hogs 2 yrs in a row.  They're having coordinator turnover in the last year or 2, they have horrible qb play and the rb position is locked down,  they're gonna run it with fournette. The Hogs are on an upswing, coaching stability minus the OL Coach,  early playing time at several positions. Enos has shown a diverse and exciting offense.  LSU ends up with a top class and the Hogs ,rankings wise, with a pretty much part for the course.

[bphi11ips]

Here you go:

1. Nothing needs to be "fixed" with recruiting.  Arkansas would have finished 4th in the ACC, 6th in the B1G, 4th in the Pac XII and 5th in the Big XII, but we're in the SEC, so we finished 9th in the conference and 25th in the nation.  We're still one of the better recruiting schools in P5 college football.

2. The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.

3. The difference with southern states is demographics.  Where ever you have large black populations, you have a great recruiting region.  As a state, Arkansas is better then most, but we have a far smaller black population then most SEC states.  This is also a reason why talent in NWA is overstated, because it has the smallest black population in the state.

4. The biggest problem Arkansas faces recruiting is proximity to these large black populations.  Most other SEC schools are much closer to them then Arkansas.  Most players for all schools come from within a 200-300 mile radius from campus and there's just not that many in that radius for Arkansas.

Hogville Hall of Fame Post. 

[jkstock04]

We need better development and program continuity across the state. Why a tiny town, (Greenwood), and mostly white, produces D1 players regularly while larger towns do not, I think tells much. Truth is, other southern states have better, more intentional player development from grade school up. Folks point to the great coaching at Greenwood, which is true, but the reason behind it is that the town leaders and School Board once made an intentional decision to do what what was necessary to develop such a program, hiring a known coach from Jenks, OK., and the whole town is largely behind it. This (player development) is what even tiny Texas towns try to do, and most Arkansas towns even the large ones do not. If we had a better share of D1 players in our state, recruiting would be much, much easier. For some reason other southern towns just put more emotion, energy and money into player development starting at a young age with continuity up to and through high school. That makes a much bigger difference than folks realize. And all other southern states also have the sadly ubiquitous gang problem as well.  The best way for schools to take care of gang issues is to have better education,  inclusive of better athletics.

This is pretty much what I think as well. Look at what our state produces as far as D1 football players compared to other southern states...it's pathetic.

All coaching staffs we have had over the years recruit almost exactly the same as far as "elite" type players go. There is a reason for this...in my opinion it's directly correlated to how strong of an in state recruit crop there is that year.

To jump in on what the OP is saying and asking, I'm not sure how the university could do it, but to me if the could somehow implement programs/clinics around the state to increase quality football/football players within our borders this would help immensely. Imagine if Little Rock took football as seriously as Greenwood, Fayetteville, or Bentonville?

I guarantee you there are kids walking around Ft smith, Little Rock, etc. schools...that if had the proper motivation and guidance and applied themselves accordingly could be 4/5* athletes. Unfortunately, these types usually fall through the cracks and probably never even play sports. Sad really.

The problem with this idea is, I don't think people care enough to take it that far. Look at the overall sentiment of this thread...you have people saying nothing to fix, just win more blah blah blah. We aren't going to win more, as a whole...in the SEC west if our opponents have more talented players than us.

If I were in charge or had the means I would take notice of communities/cities and somehow try and improve the local (state) situation so maybe I wouldn't have to fly a million miles around the country and beg some kid from New Jersy to come play for the Hogs. This couldn't be done overnight but I think it would work long term. It's no coincidence Greenwood produces so many D1 football players despite being 99.9% white. Obviously when it comes to football they know what they are doing.

But, if we keep doing exactly what we are doing (which we will) we should expect similar results. Every once in a while we will have 4 or 5 elite players in one class and that will result in an eventual 10 win season.

[The_Iceman]

I have said this since before I joined here over a decade ago. Draw a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville and count the number of players who sign with power 5 schools from within that circle. Now do the same for every other sec school. You see the problem, it is population and demographics.

And. the talent the state does produce tends to be similar every year. Rb's, Wr's, te's, ol, and one or 2 dl players. Very very few sec type lb's or cb's. Which, when you look at it, are the spots really holding our defense back.

But it has been more of the lack of talent depth in the state. In a state like Texas or LA or FLa  they can get their DEPTh by getting all the 3 stars out of their own state they want. The 9th or 19th rated player at a position in Bama HS ball is still a pretty good player. The 9th or 10th rated player at a position in AR is usually not being recruited by anyone, at any level.

Same reason Nebraska is struggling to regain the prior success.

[wildturkey8]

I'm not a big fan of oxford myself and if you look at my post, I said the coach is a big part of it and miss has pretty much waxed us in the recruiting game since freeze has been there.  I love northwest ark, I grew up an hour south of  ua. I don't see us going to texas and getting many of their blue chippers if they are offered by ut and take a trip to 6th street or an Alabama kid that takes a trip to Tuscaloosa.  Arkansas is at a huge disadvantage purely on population alone.  Texas has 2 metro areas that have more people than the entire state and the Birmingham area alone is nearly as big as Arkansas. 

Birmingham's population is not nearly as big as all of Arkansas.  Now that is nonsense.

[wildturkey8]

If we are talking about recruiting instate talent (or lack thereof), one needs to evaluate the education system in the state of Arkansas.  What is the bussing situation?  Do kids go to school where they live?  Is their only way home leaving school at 3:30?

Serious questions...

This is the issue.

[DeltaBoy]

Same reason Nebraska is struggling to regain the prior success.

Yep the Huskers lost their Walk on pipe line after Dr Tom Retired.

[jackflash]

I think this staff has done a great job of recruiting. Can't make a prospect choose Arkansas

[hogsanity]

Makes you wonder,  LSU almost fires Miles, likely will fire him if another lackluster year occurs.  They were pummeled by the Hogs 2 yrs in a row.  They're having coordinator turnover in the last year or 2, they have horrible qb play and the rb position is locked down,  they're gonna run it with fournette. The Hogs are on an upswing, coaching stability minus the OL Coach,  early playing time at several positions. Enos has shown a diverse and exciting offense.  LSU ends up with a top class and the Hogs ,rankings wise, with a pretty much part for the course.

where did most of the LSU class come from? Was it in state? Within 100 miles, 200 miles, 300 miles. 17 were in state, 3 more were from eastern Texas, 1 was from southern Alabama, 1 FLA and 1 AZ.

[hogsanity]

This....

The thing about a town like GW is that they throw money at football from rinky dink on up. When you play football in Greenwood, you start being indoctrinated into the HS program in 1st or 2nd grade. And if you live in town and don't start playing football until 6th or 7th grade, your will be lucky if they let you play. They also red shirt boys there, intentionally holding them back so they will be at the upper end of the age range by the time they are srs. Not every town has the ability,  resources, or the player numbers to do this.

Greenwood does things a lot like they did ( maybe still do ) at places like Massalin(sp) Ohio. There is a documentary called Go Tigers about their school football, if you can find it online, that was pretty interesting.

[RazorWild]

Winning changes everything. -Nolan Richardson

[BearsBisonsBoars]

As a student at the U of A, I was a member of the drumline and I had the opportunity to travel to almost every campus and college town in the SEC.  I don't think ANY of them were BETTER than Northwest Arkansas, as far as a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits.  Ever been to Oxford, MS?  What's there that would attract recruits MORE than NWA?  Nothing, in my opinion.  The same would go for every other college town that I visited within the SEC. 

I believe the issue about our university is the national perception of the state of Arkansas.  I relocated to the Atlanta, GA area last year.  As you all probably know, the greater Atlanta area is a hotbed for talented football players.  Most of the people I have encountered in Atlanta don't perceive Arkansas to be a major player in the SEC.  I don't want to bash anyone, but the extended periods of mediocrity we endured under Houston Nutt seem to have really damaged the perception of the Razorbacks, even though we've had some success against some of the teams people actually do consider to be powerhouses in the SEC.  Also, considering our recent history with John L. Smith, and our records under CBB, it's no wonder that kids view Arkansas as an afterthought.  I just think it is going to take an extended period of time of winning 9-10+ games per year, with the occasional trip to the College Football Playoff in order to change perception of the U of A. 

Now, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit.  I live down the street from Archer High School in Lawrenceville, GA.  That school is a powerhouse for football and they have a few players who just signed with SEC schools.  One of the most popular SEC schools, according to kids in this area is....Ole Miss.  Despite the mediocrity of Ole Miss athletics over the years, somehow, that university has found grace with the people in one of the great football hotbeds in the south.  How have they done it?  I'm not sure (though I believe illegal benefits are involved).  But, somehow, the U of A has to find grace in football hotbeds of the south.

We've had more success in the SEC than Ole Miss, and they seem to have survived the Nutt.

What I'm about to say would have earned me some smites, but I think it's deeper than our recent history. Arkansas lacks a certain state identity as perceived from the outside. We have the "backwards" stigma of a deep south state without the known culture and history that Georgia, Mississippi, or Alabama have. It's like they say: having no credit is worse than bad credit. People just don't know anything about Arkansas unless they have lived here.

When you get them here, you can educate them. But it's hard to get them here, and it's even harder or impossible to change the perceptions of all the people they have chirping in their ears.

[GTOWNHOG]

Shear numbers is one aspect.
Population:

Alabama      4,779,736
Arkansas      2,915,918
Florida      18,801,310
Georgia      9,687,653
Kentucky      4,339,367
Louisiana      4,533,372
Mississippi   2,967,297
Missouri      5,988,927
South Carolina   4,625,384
Texas      25,145,561
Tennessee   6,346,105

Winning fights against these numbers.. but basically the number of kids playing football is partially attributed to this.

You are correct, but it is more than just raw population.  Take a look at this:

     State                   # of School Districts          # of Students enrolled in Grades 9-12 (District Average)
     Alabama                            132                                          1641
     Arkansas                            239                                           589
     Florida                                 95                                          8553
     Georgia                              180                                          2786
     Louisiana                              70                                         2720
     Mississippi                           160                                           871
     Tennessee                           136                                         2100

I could not find the data for the actual number of high schools in each district, but this points to the problem in Arkansas.  Too many school districts, and low numbers of students in grades 9-12.  Larger high schools with larger enrollments develop more Division 1 football players.  They play against higher quality competition.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

The thing about a town like GW is that they throw money at football from rinky dink on up. When you play football in Greenwood, you start being indoctrinated into the HS program in 1st or 2nd grade. And if you live in town and don't start playing football until 6th or 7th grade, your will be lucky if they let you play. They also red shirt boys there, intentionally holding them back so they will be at the upper end of the age range by the time they are srs. Not every town has the ability,  resources, or the player numbers to do this.

Greenwood does things a lot like they did ( maybe still do ) at places like Massalin(sp) Ohio. There is a documentary called Go Tigers about their school football, if you can find it online, that was pretty interesting.

This is what most southern cities and towns do.  They get kids from a very young age and develope them.  these areas put a lot of pride in football. They have huge stadiums and coaches making 6 figures.  This enthusiasm makes its way down to the kids.
  Little Rock is completely lacking in this, and is the reason we don't see 6-10 SEC recruits from there every year.   The only part of the state we really see this in is NW Arkansas which also has the smallest black population.  with the growth of NWA if central Arkansas would ever step up, Arkansas would be in much better shape recruiting and we would be a top 20 team most years.
My kids go to Lakeside HS in Hot Springs, and Coach  Mcbride has put a big emphasis on early football development.  It's already really improved the program. 

[Pork Twain]

Birmingham's population is not nearly as big as all of Arkansas.  Now that is nonsense.

based on the 2010 numbers, Birmingham metro has a population of 1,143,772 and Arkansas' population is 2,978,204, so while it is a little over 1/3 of our state's population, it is still huge.

[Hogwild]

Fix This:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=AR

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=Highschool&State=LA

What makes matters worse that is a bad crop of seniors for LA, LSU might only offer a dozen, LSU is headed to Texas & Florida next year.


The New Orleans Advocate post recruiting day article.

His absence is a blow to a class that already falls short of its predecessor, a record-breaking 2016 crew.

"There's going to be a little bit of a dropoff," Shipp said.

"It's not as strong," said Mike Scarborough, publisher at TigerBait.com, the Rivals.com affiliate covering LSU.

The proof is in the numbers. LSU has one player committed for the 2017 class — four fewer than the program had at this time last year for the 2015 class and this time two years ago for 2014.

The Tigers have offered 12 scholarships to Louisiana players in the 2017 class, six short of the offer count to 2016 Louisiana recruits at this time last year. They've offered more Texans for 2017.

"I think there's several guys you could look at picking up LSU offers. I could see that number being 17 to 20," Shipp said. "Seventeen would be lower than the last few years. I look at the 2017 class and I kind of look at it along the lines of 2015.

"You had (receiver) Tyron Johnson and (running back) Derrius Guice, but you don't ... have four of the top 15 players in the country like 2014."

What does it mean for the Tigers? Head out of the state.

That has never been a problem for LSU. Nearly half — 47 percent — of the players from LSU's previous 10 signing classes under coach Les Miles have come from outside Louisiana. In fact, LSU signed more out-of-state guys than Louisiana players in three of those 10 years.

"(Bradley Dale) Peveto is a very good recruiter in Texas. Corey Raymond is a very good recruiting in Florida," Shipp said.

[buldozer]

The talent produced in LR and Central Arkansas is vastly understated among fans.  Likewise, the talent in NWA is vastly overstated by fans.  But part of the problem with LR/NLR is that 4-5 star players like Hill, Dyer and Tenpenny chose to leave the state.

There are a host of reasons kids in central and south Arkansas some times go elsewhere, but none less important than the location of the program in relation to them an their family. If a kid's family can't afford to travel to watch him play on Saturday.... then from a logistics standpoint, he might as well be in Tuscaloosa or Columbus

[wildturkey8]

You are correct, but it is more than just raw population.  Take a look at this:

     State                   # of School Districts          # of Students enrolled in Grades 9-12 (District Average)
     Alabama                            132                                          1641
     Arkansas                            239                                           589
     Florida                                 95                                          8553
     Georgia                              180                                          2786
     Louisiana                              70                                         2720
     Mississippi                           160                                           871
     Tennessee                           136                                         2100

I could not find the data for the actual number of high schools in each district, but this points to the problem in Arkansas.  Too many school districts, and low numbers of students in grades 9-12.  Larger high schools with larger enrollments develop more Division 1 football players.  They play against higher quality competition.

This is a definite problem.

[Pork Twain]

You are correct, but it is more than just raw population.  Take a look at this:

     State                   # of School Districts          # of Students enrolled in Grades 9-12 (District Average)
     Alabama                            132                                          1641
     Arkansas                            239                                           589
     Florida                                 95                                          8553
     Georgia                              180                                          2786
     Louisiana                              70                                         2720
     Mississippi                           160                                           871
     Tennessee                           136                                         2100

I could not find the data for the actual number of high schools in each district, but this points to the problem in Arkansas.  Too many school districts, and low numbers of students in grades 9-12.  Larger high schools with larger enrollments develop more Division 1 football players.  They play against higher quality competition.

Problem you will run into in many cases though are the logistics of consolidation.  Where I grew up in North Central AR, there are not a lot of options for consolidating.  Take Mammoth Spring for instance, no football team, but it is quite a drive to either Salem or Highland for a consolidation to make sense and then you also have to get the voters to sign off on it.  This would be the case for all of the 1A schools.

http://www.maxpreps.com/state/basketball/arkansas.htm
http://www.maxpreps.com/state/football/arkansas.htm

[Athog]

As a student at the U of A, I was a member of the drumline and I had the opportunity to travel to almost every campus and college town in the SEC.  I don't think ANY of them were BETTER than Northwest Arkansas, as far as a town with a college atmosphere that attracts recruits.  Ever been to Oxford, MS?  What's there that would attract recruits MORE than NWA?  Nothing, in my opinion.  The same would go for every other college town that I visited within the SEC. 

I believe the issue about our university is the national perception of the state of Arkansas.  I relocated to the Atlanta, GA area last year.  As you all probably know, the greater Atlanta area is a hotbed for talented football players.  Most of the people I have encountered in Atlanta don't perceive Arkansas to be a major player in the SEC.  I don't want to bash anyone, but the extended periods of mediocrity we endured under Houston Nutt seem to have really damaged the perception of the Razorbacks, even though we've had some success against some of the teams people actually do consider to be powerhouses in the SEC.  Also, considering our recent history with John L. Smith, and our records under CBB, it's no wonder that kids view Arkansas as an afterthought.  I just think it is going to take an extended period of time of winning 9-10+ games per year, with the occasional trip to the College Football Playoff in order to change perception of the U of A. 

Now, I'm going to contradict myself a little bit.  I live down the street from Archer High School in Lawrenceville, GA.  That school is a powerhouse for football and they have a few players who just signed with SEC schools.  One of the most popular SEC schools, according to kids in this area is....Ole Miss.  Despite the mediocrity of Ole Miss athletics over the years, somehow, that university has found grace with the people in one of the great football hotbeds in the south.  How have they done it?  I'm not sure (though I believe illegal benefits are involved).  But, somehow, the U of A has to find grace in football hotbeds of the south. 

+1

[IronHog]

NWA is a decent location for a big 12 program......not a SEC program.