Everyone ask yourself this question:

[WilsonHog]

Here are a couple more numbers for you.

Ford was a "great" hire at the time and here are his numbers vs the SEC 15-25-1
Crowe was 3-8-1
Hatfield was 6-3
Holtz was 4-2
JFB was 1-10

So as you can see Arkansas has always dominated the SEC...  Not... 29-48-2 since JFB began coaching the Hogs till the season before Dale was hired.  So for all of you that want to bring up how great the Hogs used to be and how far we have slipped please explain those numbers to me.  Talk to me about how we have dominated the SEC teams.

I am NOT happy losing but prove to me that there is someone better out there to lead our team.  Or by getting rid of the known, HDN who has won at Arkansas, are we just going to get more unknown, Ford won it all somewhere else but didn't do Shiite for the hogs.  I would rather give HDN and company the last two years that JFB said would be rough years and see what he can do this year and next. 

Some of you have no mid-term memory...  You can remember the glory days of the Hogs and you can remember how bad we are sucking now but you refuse to remember the NCAA cloud and the fact that JFB said "it" would cause us to have a couple of down years.

http://www.wholehogsports.com/story.php?paper=adg&section=Sports&storyid=49274&searchterm=nebraska%20offer

Butch Davis??? Winning at the U of Miami and winning at arkansas are so different it is not even funny.

2000   11   1      Butch Davis
1999   9   4      Butch Davis
1998   9   3      Butch Davis
1997   5   6      Butch Davis
1996   9   3      Butch Davis
1995   8   3      Butch Davis

2003   9   4      Houston Nutt
2002   9   5      Houston Nutt
2001   7   5      Houston Nutt
2000   6   6      Houston Nutt
1999   8   4      Houston Nutt
1998   9   3      Houston Nutt

We don't know if there is someone better out there until we find out by hiring him and seeing what he can do.

The worst reason I can think of for failing to act is fear. No one ever won any money in Vegas by playing the nickel slots.

Risk is part of the equation. No guts, no glory. I would rather try and fail than to accept  a lesser position out of fear.

[Pork Twain]

The worst reason to act is out of Panic...  JFB said there would be a couple of rough years.  I think a lot of you missed that memo.  You can have selective memory all you want but it is fact.  A Nationally accepted fact.

If you and your wife have a couple of rough years after having a pleasant 8 year marriage do you just dump her with hopes that there might be something better out there?  Do you cut all of the ties you have created with her or do you try to make it work?  That makes a lot of sense to me until I realize that bringing in GM/AW/RH sounds a lot like you are now swinging... 

I am saying the man deserves a chance to just be the HC and let he coordinators lead the team like almost every other HC in the NCAA.  If he interferes with his coordinators then his ass has to go.

[silvertip]

Who was the last national level recruit FROM OUTSIDE AR that signed with the Hog FB team?  And by national level, I mean a guy that everyone was after.  When was the last time we beat out the likes of FSU, PSu, FL, Miami etc for a out of state player in football. 

Now, when you see how few times it has happened in the last 30 years, you will see why we have not done much in those same 30 years.

Tony Ugoh. Batman Vickiel Vaughn. Probably others, but I don't have time to think now.

Agreed, hogsanity, that recruiting has been a problem. As I've posted elsewhere, I think a big part of THAT problem is the out-of-date conservative run-first offense favored by JFB & the coaches he keeps bringing us.

That is supposed to be changing. The Hogs need to get a repetuation as a high-octane high-scoring offense based on a strong passing game. A reputation like Spurrier's.
It's already happened with recruiting Mitch, Damian, Cleveland, London Crawford. I don't care where these guys are from, they could have signed on with any program.

Winning begets winning = more top recruits with NFL potential. Gus (or Butch) or a Spurrier type can change the image of Hog football into a modern program that produces NFL players. Something we haven't seen enough here for 30 years. Build it & they will come.

[DirkPiggler]

So the only answer is $$$$$$$$.  The only way to get a name guy is to pay him some ridiculous amount?  Then whats to keep him from turning right around a leaving here for even more $$$$$$$.

And, by that theory, Buffalo or Eastern michigan should be able to pony up 2mil and win a nc.  There is a lot more to it than just the coach. 

Basically, you guys are saying what I am saying.  The program can not attract a big name coach on its name alone.  Same problem we have with big name recruits.

Do you think LSU fans regret bringing in Nick Saban because he left after five years?  As long as the next coach leaves the program on solid footing let him go.  Someone else will be there to pick up the slack if the program is winning.  It would be a refreshing change to have coaches that have the opportunity to move on to the NFL or to the USC's of the world.  The one we have now would be in Conference USA or at a school like Indiana if he lost his current job. 

You mention Buffalo and Eastern Michigan, but you know damn good and well that in spite of our built-in limitations we are still closer to the USC's and Texass's of the world than we are to those types of programs.  We have a history of success, facilities comparable to anyones, and a lot of television exposure.  It will be tougher for Arkansas to be a national player than it is for USC, the Florida schools, or Texas, but it shouldn't be any tougher than it is for Iowa, Oklahoma, and Virginia Tech. 

[Albert Einswine]

Before you post silliness like this.

http://www.hogwired.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPSID=30724&SPID=2419&DB_OEM_ID=6100&KEY=&Q_SEASON=2005

If HDN's record make you sick how does this make you feel???  We had a great 8 year run before Dale got here didn't we???  We have absolutely dominated the SEC since 1992.  I am sure that the eight years of sucking ass before HDN got here did not hurt the program at all but him going to six bowl games and following it up with two losing seasons has just destroyed us.  We were told to expect the last two year but they still surprised us.  Everyone in the world acknowledges the NCAA cloud but disgruntled fans.  A couple of different breaks and we have a winning record last year.  That is what I see GM, AW and RH giving us this year.  I think HDN will be a great HC, but he just needs to manage and leave the play calling up to the OC and DC.
Year   W  L  T
1997   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1996   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1995   8   5   0   Danny Ford (Carquest L to North Carolina)
1994   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1993   6   4   1   Danny Ford
1992   3   7   1   Joe Kines
1992   0   1      Jack Crowe
1991   6   6      Jack Crowe (Independence L to Georgia)
1990   3   8      Jack Crowe
1989   10   2   0   Ken Hatfield (Cotton L vs Tenn)
1988   10   2   0   Ken Hatfield (Cotton L vs UCLA)
1987   9   4   0   Ken Hatfield (Liberty L vs Georgia)
1986   9   3   0   Ken Hatfield (Orange L vs Oklahomo)
1985   10   2   0   Ken Hatfield (Holiday W vs Arizona St)
1984   7   4   1   Ken Hatfield
1983   6   5   0   Lou Holtz
1982   9   2   1   Lou Holtz
1981   8   4   0   Lou Holtz
1980   7   5   0   Lou Holtz
1979   10   2   0   Lou Holtz
1978   9   2   1   Lou Holtz
1977   11   1   0   Lou Holtz

From 1977 to 1992 we were 4-9-1 in bowl games under the great Holtz, Hatfield and Ford.  Sorry I am not old enough to remember the glory days of the 50's and 60's but I am old enough to remember the Holtz/Hatfield era which was followed by Crowe/Ford and to me Dale is no the end of the world.

I wasn't happy with Hatfield after the '87 season.  I was not happy with the Crowe hire.  I did not want the Ford hire and was never satisfied with his results.

I supported HDN wholeheartedly in '98-'99.   I began to see the problems in 2000 but told myself it was just an abberation.

Despite the warnings of sentinels like Biggus Piggus and EastexHawg I held to the defense of Dale.   Though there were chinks in the armor,  I defended steadfastly until the O for October collapse of '03.  That was it for me.

I hoped beyond hope that he would bestow his gifts on Nebraska and the next year I prayed that LSU would be so foolish as to take him and his crew. 

The list that I compiled at the top of the page is real.  The most embarrassing losses ( Citadel being an exception) and the worst beatings in decades have been suffered under the present Head Coach and core staff.

If you want to defend that and be content with that,  knock yourself out.  Just don't expect me and a whole bunch of others to sit idly by and not let our voices be heard.

Dale's record speaks for itself.   Other than a couple of victories over Texas it doesn't say much but sorrow and pain.

[Pisapig1]

    I believe JFB beat Georgia 16-2 in sugar and 31-10 in Cotton.  Might have beaten Ole MIss once but I'm just going off memory.  Screwed against Tenn. in Liberty.

[Pork Twain]

Albert you really don't need to warn anyone that comes to this board that those that don't like Dale are going to speak their minds.  We all know you will speak your minds.  That is the main reason I and many others stayed away from this board for so long.  Lets move on.

I think HDN could win as a HC IF he can keep his hands off of teh offense and leave GM and AW alone to run things.

JFB beat Georgia twice and lost to Tenn, Miss, LSU, and Alabama

[MrSpook1352]

Let's win this year and next and then we can stop worrying about "last year."

[Razorback_Z71]

Put a $2.2 mil starting salary on that job and watch 'em get into line to fill out the application.   Money talks and it's the universal language.

Exactly.  We're not going to get a name coach for the same money we're paying Nutt, or for the same money that coach is making now.  Until we restore our program prestige to its rightful place among the elite we'll have to throw some serious money at potential candidates.  And yes, our athletic department can afford to pay whatever it takes, no matter what some would have you believe.

A lot of folks don't remember just how bad of a program Texas A$M was before Jackie Sherrill arrived there, or how big of a name Sherrill was in coaching circles at that time.  A$M couldn't even win in the watered down SWC back then.  Their AD and alums decided to shock the world with their next coach's salary, and they landed the guy who was considered one of the top five coaches in America (they also spent money wisely on players, but that's a story for another day).  The point is, they knew they couldn't attract the best and brightest paying the same salary as they were paying Tom Wilson, and they knew that they couldn't compete with Texass and Arkansas with the likes of Tom Wilson as head coach.  They identified the problem, threw money at the problem, and for the next 20 years or so they got results like they'd never seen before.

Oh, and Jackie Sherrill wasn't the Aggies' first choice either.  They originally offered Bo Schembechler of Michigan, who seriously considered leaving arguably one of the top two or three jobs in America.  Obviously he didn't leave, but the salary offered was enough to at least get his attention.  Should we have a vacancy that's exactly the way JFB/ Lindsey should play it.  Identify the top five to ten coaches in the country, set the price at $3 million per year, and offer it to everyone on the list until someone says yes.  If the money is right we won't have to go very far down the list, I promise.

So the only answer is $$$$$$$$.  The only way to get a name guy is to pay him some ridiculous amount?  Then whats to keep him from turning right around a leaving here for even more $$$$$$$.

And, by that theory, Buffalo or Eastern michigan should be able to pony up 2mil and win a nc.  There is a lot more to it than just the coach. 

Basically, you guys are saying what I am saying.  The program can not attract a big name coach on its name alone.  Same problem we have with big name recruits.

The "big name" programs do pay HUGE $$$$$$ to their coaches.   You're not going to attract a 1st tier coach with a 2nd tier salary, period end of story.

But would you be willing to pay  $1,200 for season tickets to watch a championship caliber Hog program?

[EastexHawg]

I'm thinking of becoming a Nutt groupie.  It must be loads of fun.

All you have to do is sit around and come up with explanations for why the Razorback football program sucks, has sucked in the past, and will continue to suck in the future.

Where do I sign up?

[WilsonHog]

Put a $2.2 mil starting salary on that job and watch 'em get into line to fill out the application.   Money talks and it's the universal language.

Exactly.  We're not going to get a name coach for the same money we're paying Nutt, or for the same money that coach is making now.  Until we restore our program prestige to its rightful place among the elite we'll have to throw some serious money at potential candidates.  And yes, our athletic department can afford to pay whatever it takes, no matter what some would have you believe.

A lot of folks don't remember just how bad of a program Texas A$M was before Jackie Sherrill arrived there, or how big of a name Sherrill was in coaching circles at that time.  A$M couldn't even win in the watered down SWC back then.  Their AD and alums decided to shock the world with their next coach's salary, and they landed the guy who was considered one of the top five coaches in America (they also spent money wisely on players, but that's a story for another day).  The point is, they knew they couldn't attract the best and brightest paying the same salary as they were paying Tom Wilson, and they knew that they couldn't compete with Texass and Arkansas with the likes of Tom Wilson as head coach.  They identified the problem, threw money at the problem, and for the next 20 years or so they got results like they'd never seen before.

Oh, and Jackie Sherrill wasn't the Aggies' first choice either.  They originally offered Bo Schembechler of Michigan, who seriously considered leaving arguably one of the top two or three jobs in America.  Obviously he didn't leave, but the salary offered was enough to at least get his attention.  Should we have a vacancy that's exactly the way JFB/ Lindsey should play it.  Identify the top five to ten coaches in the country, set the price at $3 million per year, and offer it to everyone on the list until someone says yes.  If the money is right we won't have to go very far down the list, I promise.

So the only answer is $$$$$$$$.  The only way to get a name guy is to pay him some ridiculous amount?  Then whats to keep him from turning right around a leaving here for even more $$$$$$$.

And, by that theory, Buffalo or Eastern michigan should be able to pony up 2mil and win a nc.  There is a lot more to it than just the coach. 

Basically, you guys are saying what I am saying.  The program can not attract a big name coach on its name alone.  Same problem we have with big name recruits.

The "big name" programs do pay HUGE $$$$$$ to their coaches.   You're not going to attract a 1st tier coach with a 2nd tier salary, period end of story.

But would you be willing to pay  $1,200 for season tickets to watch a championship caliber Hog program?

I paid $1,500 this year.

[pseudorabies]

    I believe JFB beat Georgia 16-2 in sugar and 31-10 in Cotton.  Might have beaten Ole MIss once but I'm just going off memory.  Screwed against Tenn. in Liberty.

Broyles never beat Ole Miss.

[pseudorabies]

Put a $2.2 mil starting salary on that job and watch 'em get into line to fill out the application.   Money talks and it's the universal language.

Exactly.  We're not going to get a name coach for the same money we're paying Nutt, or for the same money that coach is making now.  Until we restore our program prestige to its rightful place among the elite we'll have to throw some serious money at potential candidates.  And yes, our athletic department can afford to pay whatever it takes, no matter what some would have you believe.

A lot of folks don't remember just how bad of a program Texas A$M was before Jackie Sherrill arrived there, or how big of a name Sherrill was in coaching circles at that time.  A$M couldn't even win in the watered down SWC back then.  Their AD and alums decided to shock the world with their next coach's salary, and they landed the guy who was considered one of the top five coaches in America (they also spent money wisely on players, but that's a story for another day).  The point is, they knew they couldn't attract the best and brightest paying the same salary as they were paying Tom Wilson, and they knew that they couldn't compete with Texass and Arkansas with the likes of Tom Wilson as head coach.  They identified the problem, threw money at the problem, and for the next 20 years or so they got results like they'd never seen before.

Oh, and Jackie Sherrill wasn't the Aggies' first choice either.  They originally offered Bo Schembechler of Michigan, who seriously considered leaving arguably one of the top two or three jobs in America.  Obviously he didn't leave, but the salary offered was enough to at least get his attention.  Should we have a vacancy that's exactly the way JFB/ Lindsey should play it.  Identify the top five to ten coaches in the country, set the price at $3 million per year, and offer it to everyone on the list until someone says yes.  If the money is right we won't have to go very far down the list, I promise.

So the only answer is $$$$$$$$.  The only way to get a name guy is to pay him some ridiculous amount?  Then whats to keep him from turning right around a leaving here for even more $$$$$$$.

And, by that theory, Buffalo or Eastern michigan should be able to pony up 2mil and win a nc.  There is a lot more to it than just the coach. 

Basically, you guys are saying what I am saying.  The program can not attract a big name coach on its name alone.  Same problem we have with big name recruits.

The "big name" programs do pay HUGE $$$$$$ to their coaches.   You're not going to attract a 1st tier coach with a 2nd tier salary, period end of story.

But would you be willing to pay  $1,200 for season tickets to watch a championship caliber Hog program?

I paid $1,500 this year.

no comment.

[WilsonHog]

The worst reason to act is out of Panic...  JFB said there would be a couple of rough years.  I think a lot of you missed that memo.  You can have selective memory all you want but it is fact.  A Nationally accepted fact.

If you and your wife have a couple of rough years after having a pleasant 8 year marriage do you just dump her with hopes that there might be something better out there?  Do you cut all of the ties you have created with her or do you try to make it work?  That makes a lot of sense to me until I realize that bringing in GM/AW/RH sounds a lot like you are now swinging... 

I am saying the man deserves a chance to just be the HC and let he coordinators lead the team like almost every other HC in the NCAA.  If he interferes with his coordinators then his ass has to go.

You make two erroneous assumptions.

(1) That I regard the first eight years as "pleasant." I don't. To be specific, I was happy with 1998 and 1999 and 2002, because I believe that the results that we saw in 1998, 1999, and 2002 SHOULD BE EXPECTED EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I was not pleased with 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, or 2005. In sum, HDN has met my expectations for the program in only three of his eight years.

(2) You say that HDN "deserves a chance to just be the HC and let the coordinators lead the team like almost every other coach in the NCAA." You make it sound like JFB forbid Nutt from hiring an offensive coordinator the first eight years he was in Fayetteville, and we all know that to be wrong. He did it to himself. 

[Albert Einswine]

The worst reason to act is out of Panic...  JFB said there would be a couple of rough years.  I think a lot of you missed that memo.  You can have selective memory all you want but it is fact.  A Nationally accepted fact.

If you and your wife have a couple of rough years after having a pleasant 8 year marriage do you just dump her with hopes that there might be something better out there?  Do you cut all of the ties you have created with her or do you try to make it work?  That makes a lot of sense to me until I realize that bringing in GM/AW/RH sounds a lot like you are now swinging... 

I am saying the man deserves a chance to just be the HC and let he coordinators lead the team like almost every other HC in the NCAA.  If he interferes with his coordinators then his ass has to go.

You make two errorneous assumptions.

(1) That I regard the first eight years as "pleasant." I don't. To be specific, I was happy with 1998 and 1999 and 2002, because I believe that the results that we saw in 1998, 1999, and 2002 SHOULD BE EXPECTED EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I was not pleased with 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, or 2005. In sum, HDN has met my expectations for the program in only three of his eight years.

(2) You say that HDN "deserves a chance to just be the HC and let the coordinators lead the team like almost every other coach in the NCAA." You make it sound like JFB forbid Nutt from hiring an offensive coordinator the first eight years he was in Fayetteville, and we all know that to be wrong. He did it to himself. 

Excellent rebuttal Wilson,  you should have been an attorney. 

[Razorback_Z71]

The worst reason to act is out of Panic...  JFB said there would be a couple of rough years.  I think a lot of you missed that memo.  You can have selective memory all you want but it is fact.  A Nationally accepted fact.

If you and your wife have a couple of rough years after having a pleasant 8 year marriage do you just dump her with hopes that there might be something better out there?  Do you cut all of the ties you have created with her or do you try to make it work?  That makes a lot of sense to me until I realize that bringing in GM/AW/RH sounds a lot like you are now swinging... 

I am saying the man deserves a chance to just be the HC and let he coordinators lead the team like almost every other HC in the NCAA.  If he interferes with his coordinators then his ass has to go.

You make two erroneous assumptions.

(1) That I regard the first eight years as "pleasant." I don't. To be specific, I was happy with 1998 and 1999 and 2002, because I believe that the results that we saw in 1998, 1999, and 2002 SHOULD BE EXPECTED EVERY SINGLE YEAR. I was not pleased with 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, or 2005. In sum, HDN has met my expectations for the program in only three of his eight years.

(2) You say that HDN "deserves a chance to just be the HC and let the coordinators lead the team like almost every other coach in the NCAA." You make it sound like JFB forbid Nutt from hiring an offensive coordinator the first eight years he was in Fayetteville, and we all know that to be wrong. He did it to himself. 

1998 was a good season, but we sure looked bad against Miss St. and Michigan.

[Hugehogsfan]

I think that in the end most recruits are swayed to other schools.  Think of some of the big ones, who signed with other teams even though like the kid that carried the goal post down Dixon, have a good time at U of A and like the facilities.  What is it that causes them to pick someone else in the end?  When we answer that question maybe we can get these top players.

[Pork Twain]

Eastex--I am thinking about becoming a darksider...  All you have to do is sit around a bitch about every move everyone associated with the program makes.   That sounds like fun and I would finally be able to contribute to our progress.

I hope you are not refering to me with the hugger crap.  That is the way you do things though.  If you cannot combat facts with facts you just say naner, naner, naner you a hugger and everything you say isn't true because your mamma make you drink HDN fruit punch.  I swear you sound like a child with all of your hugger/sunshine crap...

[EastexHawg]

Eastex--I am thinking about becoming a darksider...  All you have to do is sit around a bitch about every move everyone associated with the program makes.   That sounds like fun and I would finally be able to contribute to our progress.

I hope you are not refering to me with the hugger crap.  That is the way you do things though.  If you cannot combat facts with facts you just say naner, naner, naner you a hugger and everything you say isn't true because your mamma make you drink HDN fruit punch.  I swear you sound like a child with all of your hugger/sunshine crap...

Okay, let's talk facts.  I'll start it...

SEC RECORDS THIS CENTURY (2000-2005)
1. Auburn...37-12
2. (tie)  LSU...37-14
           Georgia...37-14
4. Florida...35-14
5. Tennessee...33-17
6. (tie) Alabama...24-24
          South Carolina...24-24
8. Ole Miss...22-26
9. ARKANSAS...21-28
10. Mississippi State...10-38
11. Kentucky...8-40
12. Vanderbilt...6-42

Ninth.  Out of twelve.  Ouch.

But hey...at least we have a better record than MSU, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt since the turn of the century...although we can't exactly claim "scoreboard" since we are 1-1 head up against Kentucky and 0-1 against the Commodores during that time.

[musiccityhog]

I'll give you a fact , Hogsanity can get on everybodies nerves with his posts. The reason why is because he is 100% right. I will admit I don't like what he posts most of the time, but he really has a lot of common sense.

[Oklahawg]

4-star out-of-staters under HDN:

Felix Jones
Marcus Shavers
Tony Ugoh
Vickiel Vaughn
Reggie Banks
Micheal Grant
Lawrence Richardson
Ahmad Carroll
London Crawford

I don't believe Jason Peters was a 4-star.

[Tusks]

I think Lucas Jackson was a 4-star LB out LA when he signed.  Grit said he would be the best LB at Arkansas since the late 70's.

Who recruited that DL, was his name Marcus Clavelle? He was a 4-star I think, but hurt his neck.

I will say one thing, Danny Ford knew how to recruit DL...he put about 5 in the NFL.  Ray Lee, Ford, Anderson, Hale?, and a couple of others that escapes me.

[Pork Twain]

I have NEVER said I was happy with our W/L record in the SEC.  I have said that in the past our defense let us down time and time again, but Dale stuck by his guys.  If we would have had a DC like RH 5-6 years ago I think things would be much different now.  We have always been able to score points.  We are just not always able to score more than our defense has allowed the other team to score.

My main point is that everyone wants to talk about the Glory Days of Arkansas and how we will never get there with HDN.  I will say Arkansas has never had any Glory Days against the teams that make up the SEC and there is no guarantee that the next coach we get will not be another Danny Ford and bury our program.  HDN has won games for us and we should have done better than we did last year. 

I am hoping that the solution to our shortcomings last year is a new OC.  Nobody knows what kind of a HC HDN can be without the OC title around his neck.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

maybe if Nutt was a decent coach, we could have won some of those games he flat out gave away and nabbed more high profile recruits from out of state.

Like i said before, a donkey could have coached us to wins over Vandy and South Carolina at home.

Two of the most mismanaged games Ive ever seen in Razorback history.

WIth Wood and Gus, that should change.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

I have NEVER said I was happy with our W/L record in the SEC.  I have said that in the past our defense let us down time and time again, but Dale stuck by his guys.  If we would have had a DC like RH 5-6 years ago I think things would be much different now.  We have always been able to score points.  We are just not always able to score more than our defense has allowed the other team to score.

My main point is that everyone wants to talk about the Glory Days of Arkansas and how we will never get there with HDN.  I will say Arkansas has never had any Glory Days against the teams that make up the SEC and there is no guarantee that the next coach we get will not be another Danny Ford and bury our program.  HDN has won games for us and we should have done better than we did last year. 

I am hoping that the solution to our shortcomings last year is a new OC.  Nobody knows what kind of a HC HDN can be without the OC title around his neck.

Coach Ford didnt "bury" the football program. His style was probably not suited for us at the time.

He coached this program to its ONLY true SEC west title.

He also set up HDN's success at Arkansas for the first two years with his staff's recruiting efforts.

[Pork Twain]

Year   W  L  T
1997   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1996   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1995   8   5   0   Danny Ford (Carquest L to North Carolina)
1994   4   7   0   Danny Ford
1993   6   4   1   Danny Ford

DF won the SEC West in a year that LSU, Aub, Ala were all down and all had to face a Fla team that finished 12-1.  He really set the tone for Arkansas in the SEC with a 15-25-1 record vs the SEC and three seasons of 4-7 overall.

[Tusks]

Oh come on, he won the West period.  That's more than HDN has done.  What was Auburns record and what did they do in their bowl that year?

He also recruited the ENTIRE 1998 team, that HDN has his best year with.  He had as good a team returning in 1999 but assclown got scared and got Clint hurt.  That cost the hogs 2 games.

[hogsanity]

4-star out-of-staters under HDN:

Felix Jones
Marcus Shavers
Tony Ugoh
Vickiel Vaughn
Reggie Banks
Micheal Grant
Lawrence Richardson
Ahmad Carroll
London Crawford

I don't believe Jason Peters was a 4-star.

These guys don't fit my definiton of national big time recruit.  A national big time recruit is a kid who when he signs with some, it simply crushes all the others who were after him.  And, when it comes to out of state talent, I dont rememeber the last guy, that say FSU, LSu and Tn was after that we ended up getting that really hurt their classes.  I remember it happeneing to us a ton of times. 

And, these guys you listed were/are good players, but are any of them truly great difference makers?  Felix could be.

[dmhog v2.0]

Felix Jones, Alex Mortenson (yes, he did get offers from other SEC schools), Robert Johnson (he was a top 10 dual threat QB),  Tony Ugoh (we beat OU for him),  Michael Smith, Casey Dick. Those are the ones I think of off the top of my head.  I will study the roster to see how many others I can find.     

PS.  I find it very interesting that since Nutt bashing was outlawed on this site the darksiders come up with creative ways to still throw darts at Nutt without mentioning his name.   How long do you all think to  come up these veiled attempts to slam our coach?  You all make me sick!!

Yeah. Wasn't Felix Jones highly recruited, most notably by OU?

[Pork Twain]

Too bad Danny couldn't win with those players.

1995 results

Alabama was 8-3 (5-3) No Bowl
Auburn was 8-4 (5-3) Hall of Fame vs Penn St L 14-43
LSU was 7-4-1 (4-3-1) Independence Bowl vs Michigan St W 45-26

Arkansas was 8-5 (6-2) Carquest vs North Carolina L 10-20 LSU beat them 28-0 and Fla beat them 34-3
Lost the last three games of the season 13-82 and followed it up with two 4-7 seasons.

Please tell me more about all of teh great things Danny did for Arkansas football...

[hogsanity]

The one thing Ford knew was the value of OL and DL and he did recruit very well at those positions, thus the good teams we had in 98 and 99. 

[Pork Twain]

I never said he couldn't recruit.  Stan Heath can recruit...

[WilsonHog]

There are two major differences that explain why Danny Ford is no longer the head coach and Houston Nutt is.

(1) Birthplace;
(2) Willingness to grovel.

[Tusks]

Too bad Danny couldn't win with those players.

1995 results

Alabama was 8-3 (5-3) No Bowl
Auburn was 8-4 (5-3) Hall of Fame vs Penn St L 14-43
LSU was 7-4-1 (4-3-1) Independence Bowl vs Michigan St W 45-26

Arkansas was 8-5 (6-2) Carquest vs North Carolina L 10-20 LSU beat them 28-0 and Fla beat them 34-3
Lost the last three games of the season 13-82 and followed it up with two 4-7 seasons.

Please tell me more about all of teh great things Danny did for Arkansas football...

Danny Ford proved that Arkansas can win the West and go to the SECCG, that's what he proved.  The Hogs were the first team from the West other than Alabama to make the game and only the 3rd team in the conference to play in it....Florida, Alabama and Arkansas.  He then recruited a BCS/NC team (1998) for the coach that followed him.  I personally think he did some nice things for the program at a very difficult time.

Is your point that HDN has done more than DF?  Or is your point that DF was so bad a monkey could've done better?  HDN is 2 games better a year than DF.  I think in conference he's 1 or 1.5 games better.

[Tusks]

Actually it's not even a full game better.

DF Conference record  16-24-1  Avg. 3.2    -  4.8  - .2
HN Conference record  31-34     Avg. 3.875 - 4.25

So HDN is about a half game better a year in conference play.  That my friends is insignificant.

[EastexHawg]

I have NEVER said I was happy with our W/L record in the SEC...

This is the part of the "keep Nutt" argument that I don't get.

Not just trying to single you out, Superhog, but I read this all the time.  Those who support Nutt, when presented with the facts regarding his record over the years, say, (and I paraphrase) "How dare you suggest that I am satisfied with mediocrity or our record.  I am NOT satisfied."

And yet, in the next breath, they vehemently oppose replacing the very coach who has produced that record.

How can you say you are not satisfied with Nutt's performance, yet promote retaining him?

If you are the sales manager at a car dealership, and one of your salesmen consistently fails to make sales for five, six, or seven years...are you going to keep him?  And if the owner of the dealership finally comes to you, eight years into that salesman's employment, and asks why you won't get rid of a guy whose performance is so poor...do you think that owner is going to think maybe he needs to replace both the salesman and you if you reply, "Well, you know...I am not satisfied with his performance..."?

If you aren't satisfied, why are you so intent on hanging onto him?

It's not just the last two years, either.  As I posted earlier, Nutt's teams at Arkansas rank NINTH in the SEC, record-wise, over the last SIX YEARS.  The only programs with worse records are Miss. State, Kentucky, and Vanderbilt.

You say you aren't satisfied with that.  Okay, that makes two of us.  Do you mind if I ask exactly what you think should be done about Nutt's "unsatisfactory" results? 

Or do you think we should just keep paying him $1.5 million per year and do nothing?

[Pork Twain]

I think there are two major facts that Danny is gone and HDN is here.

*** 3 4-7 seasons in 4 years
*** 6 bowls in his first 6 seasons followed by two down years that the AD said would come.

Danny Ford proved to me that you can be successful and win it all at one place and suck it up at another.  I guess those of you that think DF did something for our program are huge supporters of Stan huh???  Please tell me you are because all you are basing you love of Ford on is the fact that he recruited good. 

I know for a fact after listening to the crap on this board that none of you would be happy with ANY coach that led the Hogs to 6-4/4-7/8-5/4-7/4-7 in a five year span and I don't care if they won the SECCG the 8-5 year.  HDN has had TWO down years and you want him gone and you expect anyone on this board to believe you would accept the type of performance Ford gave us?

[Pork Twain]

Eastex--I think there are probably a few coaches out there that could run circles around HDN, but there are also a lot of coaches out there that would sink us even farther.  I think HDN can get us back where we need to be if he will allow his OC/DC to do their jobs.  None of us has ever seen what HDN is capable of as just the HC and no OC duties.

Everyone wants to talk about Butch, but ALL he has done is win at Miami and as I have stated in previous post everyone has won at Miami.  If we get a new coach I want a young innovative guy that is offensive oriented.

Here are the main reasons I don't want to shitcan HDN yet...

***I think GM is the real deal but I think it will take him at least one season to get his offense installed.  Bringing in a new HC and trying to force GM on him could backfire a lot bigger than forcing GM on HDN because HDN does love the helmet.

***I think RH is the real deal on the defensive side of the ball and I think our defense will continue to improve all year.

I think we have a great OC/DC combo here and if we bring in a new coach he is going to want to bring in his own style and his own staff.

[Tusks]

DF Conference record  16-24-1  Avg. 3.2    -  4.8  - .2
HN Conference record  31-34     Avg. 3.875 - 4.25

It is what it is.  No excuses, no more no less.

[WilsonHog]

Eastex, let me add on your point.

There are very few pro, college, or high school jobs that don't have carry limitations. For that matter, there are very few jobs that don't carry limitations. For an unsuccessful coach or employee, the existance of those limitations are neither a jutification or a defense. There comes a time when the organization has to thank the coach or employee for their contributions and move forward to find someone else who might be better able to work within the constraints of those limitations.

   

[jabohog]

Who was the last national level recruit FROM OUTSIDE AR that signed with the Hog FB team?  And by national level, I mean a guy that everyone was after.  When was the last time we beat out the likes of FSU, PSu, FL, Miami etc for a out of state player in football. 

Now, when you see how few times it has happened in the last 30 years, you will see why we have not done much in those same 30 years.

How many of the 98, 99 class were nationally recruited? The 98 bunch went toe to toe with the national champion that year and had them beat on their own field. Though I understand your point, there are other things that can be fixed now that would make us more competetive than what we are. One of those is recruiting organization and coordination. Those have suffered.

[Pork Twain]

Great can you post that same thing about five more times because I think you have almost made your point...  Which is???

Danny coached 5 years 15-25-1 (36.6%) in the SEC 26-30-1 (45.6%) overall
HDN coached 8 years 31-35 (47.7%) in the SEC 57-40 (58.8%) overall

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Arkansas.htm#1995 ;

I will provide the numbers and you provide the calculator...  There is no range in absolute averages but nice try to twist the numbers.  I am NOT saying HDN is the answer but don't waste my time telling me Ford did something for the UofA.

[Pork Twain]

Wilson-- I agree there has to be limitations but when the AD has been known to meddle and then he comes out and tells the National media that he expect his program to have a couple of rough years.  Then he turns around and fires the coach because of those rough years.  What do you think that says to prospective coaches.  Do you think they have all forgotten Holtz/Hatfield?

[hogsanity]

Who was the last national level recruit FROM OUTSIDE AR that signed with the Hog FB team?  And by national level, I mean a guy that everyone was after.  When was the last time we beat out the likes of FSU, PSu, FL, Miami etc for a out of state player in football. 

Now, when you see how few times it has happened in the last 30 years, you will see why we have not done much in those same 30 years.

How many of the 98, 99 class were nationally recruited? The 98 bunch went toe to toe with the national champion that year and had them beat on their own field. Though I understand your point, there are other things that can be fixed now that would make us more competetive than what we are. One of those is recruiting organization and coordination. Those have suffered.

Undoubtedly.  I think the answer may very well lie in trying to sign as many low 4 star and top flight 3 star guys from out of state, and grabbing all the top in state guys.  To try to get 5 start guys out of fla or tx or Ga or wherever, in my opinion, at this point, is a waste of valuable recruiting resources. 

[wacohog]

Wilson-- I agree there has to be limitations but when the AD has been known to meddle and then he comes out and tells the National media that he expect his program to have a couple of rough years.  Then he turns around and fires the coach because of those rough years.  What do you think that says to prospective coaches.  Do you think they have all forgotten Holtz/Hatfield?

I think I would be able to handle the 2 yr excuse if the prior yrs had been outstanding...which they weren't( as far as my expectations.) I BELIEVE HDN HAS SHOWN HIS STRIPES.And now, he has a JFB-mandated coaching-style epiphany, and many of you blindly believe all is magically well, and that is your right. Others(you, sanity) ask rhetorical questions which can never be answered fully whilst you use circular logic to prove, in your opinion, that the Hogs can't win, won't win, shouldn't win, never won much, etc.

My vote goes this way: Buy a big-time coach, turn him loose, demand results, pay whatever it takes, and tell all who accept this mind-numbing mediocrity in which we are mired to find another team to support.

HE WHO DARES WINS

[WilsonHog]

Wilson-- I agree there has to be limitations but when the AD has been known to meddle and then he comes out and tells the National media that he expect his program to have a couple of rough years.  Then he turns around and fires the coach because of those rough years.  What do you think that says to prospective coaches.  Do you think they have all forgotten Holtz/Hatfield?

I have a couple of observations about those two years.

Can you think of another major college football program where an AD, in the middle of a coach's tenure, openly gave the coach two down years? That it even occurred is an extraordinary statement about the status of our program.

Secondly, forget that the last two years happened; just erase them from the record books.  What we're left with is Houston Nutt's best seasons as the Razorback football coach. His very best ones. Do you know what our record in the SEC was after his first six years?

26-22 (.541).

1998 - 6-2.
1999 - 4-4.
2000 - 3-5.
2001 - 4-4.
2002 - 5-3.
2003 - 4-4.

In the first "down" year (2004) our record in the SEC was 3-5; the SAME as it was in 2000, and just one game worse than it was in 1999, 2001, and 2003.

In the second "down" year our record was 2-6. If you do the old statistical maneuver of throwing out the best (6-2) and the worst (2-6), HDN's record in the SEC in the remaining six years was 23-25.

The only way that those numbers can be defended is to compare them to those of Danny Ford, which in effect is making the argument that, "We don't suck as badly as we used to."       

Superhog, do you know when I'll get off HDN's back? Of for that matter, the back of ANY Razorback football coach from now until I die?

When I look at the coach's record and I no longer see 2-6, 3-5, or 4-4 marks in SEC play. When I CONSISTENTLY see 5-3 to 7-1 records EACH AND EVERY YEAR then I'll be satisfied with the performance of the Razorback football coach.

And I don't give a damn who it is. 

[Hollywood_HOGan]

Coach Ford gave us a line that could pass block and an DL that could rush the passer.

We havent had one since.

The state of our football program was just so bad that I dont even think the great Houston Nutt could have had a record any better.

Coach Ford set the foundation for two of the better teams Arkansas has had recently.

he built a team that probably could have won a championship.

We havent come close since.

Case closed.

[Albert Einswine]

Wilson-- I agree there has to be limitations but when the AD has been known to meddle and then he comes out and tells the National media that he expect his program to have a couple of rough years.  Then he turns around and fires the coach because of those rough years.  What do you think that says to prospective coaches.  Do you think they have all forgotten Holtz/Hatfield?

I have a couple of observations about those two years.

Can you think of another major college football program where an AD, in the middle of a coach's tenure, openly gave the coach two down years? That it even occurred is an extraordinary statement about the status of our program.

Secondly, forget that the last two years happened; just erase them from the record books.  What we're left with is Houston Nutt's best seasons as the Razorback football coach. His very best ones. Do you know what our record in the SEC was after his first six years?

26-22 (.541).

1998 - 6-2.
1999 - 4-4.
2000 - 3-5.
2001 - 4-4.
2002 - 5-3.
2003 - 4-4.

In the first "down" year (2004) our record in the SEC was 3-5; the SAME as it was in 2000, and just one game worse than it was in 1999, 2001, and 2003.

In the second "down" year our record was 2-6. If you do the old statistical maneuver of throwing out the best (6-2) and the worst (2-6), HDN's record in the SEC in the remaining six years was 23-25.

The only way that those numbers can be defended is to compare them to those of Danny Ford, which in effect is making the argument that, "We don't suck as badly as we used to."       

Superhog, do you know when I'll get off HDN's back? Of for that matter, the back of ANY Razorback football coach from now until I die?

When I look at the coach's record and I no longer see 2-6, 3-5, or 4-4 marks in SEC play. When I CONSISTENTLY see 5-3 to 7-1 records EACH AND EVERY YEAR then I'll be satisfied with the performance of the Razorback football coach.

And I don't give a damn who it is. 

Excellence!  Logic!  +1

[GrizzledHogFan]

Great can you post that same thing about five more times because I think you have almost made your point...  Which is???

Danny coached 5 years 15-25-1 (36.6%) in the SEC 26-30-1 (45.6%) overall
HDN coached 8 years 31-35 (47.7%) in the SEC 57-40 (58.8%) overall

http://www.jhowell.net/cf/scores/Arkansas.htm#1995 

I will provide the numbers and you provide the calculator...  There is no range in absolute averages but nice try to twist the numbers.  I am NOT saying HDN is the answer but don't waste my time telling me Ford did something for the UofA.

You're complaining about biased math, but you chose to count Ford's tie game as a loss, rather than give him a half-game credit, or throwing it out entirely.  Not that it makes a huge difference, but it doesn't seem quite right.

[GrizzledHogFan]

I think there are two major facts that Danny is gone and HDN is here.

*** 3 4-7 seasons in 4 years
*** 6 bowls in his first 6 seasons followed by two down years that the AD said would come.

Danny Ford proved to me that you can be successful and win it all at one place and suck it up at another.  I guess those of you that think DF did something for our program are huge supporters of Stan huh???  Please tell me you are because all you are basing you love of Ford on is the fact that he recruited good. 

I know for a fact after listening to the crap on this board that none of you would be happy with ANY coach that led the Hogs to 6-4/4-7/8-5/4-7/4-7 in a five year span and I don't care if they won the SECCG the 8-5 year.  HDN has had TWO down years and you want him gone and you expect anyone on this board to believe you would accept the type of performance Ford gave us?

One, Broyles should've been fired for giving Nutt a two year pass.  That's unacceptable.  Nutt should have been fired by now as well.  Two, I don't think you'll find many Ford supporters here.  I think the point is that Nutt isn't that much better.