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Author Topic: What has caused the OL issues?  (Read 8133 times)

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bigpigpimpin

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #150 on: October 01, 2017, 09:51:52 am »

Lack of talent
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Swestwill66

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #151 on: October 01, 2017, 09:53:08 am »


The recruiting isn't similar

You don't think those 2 programs get top 5 talent every year, seriously?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #152 on: October 01, 2017, 09:53:15 am »

I seriously worry about Austin Allen getting badly injured when we get into the meat of our SEC schedule. And I'm not even talking or thinking about losing our starting qb...I'm just worried about his well being, and no I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

Our pass plays take too long to develop, O-line can't hold the blocks and he is gonna get absolutely hammered, planted, and beaten when we play the likes of Alabama or Auburn.

3-1/2 seconds. Need to get rid of the ball. But Allen is trying to allow the younger receivers to get open so he stands and holds the ball beyond that time limit and takes a lot of hits and Sacks he shouldn't be taking. About half the time there are pass pro issues among the OL, TE's and RB's, but the other half of the time it is on Allen and the WR's. If the WR's can't break open on time he has to learn to just throw it away. Being a competitor I am sure that is difficult for him which is why he is taking too many hits.
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Cambridge Hog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #153 on: October 01, 2017, 09:53:57 am »

Line looked better, though it was not vs A&M level talent.

What combinations of lines did they experiment with? Any work better than others?
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Swestwill66

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2017, 09:55:17 am »

Yeah F.S.U is gonna have to recruit better. Lol
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GalaHawg

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2017, 09:56:56 am »

We just need to find one more consistent guy on the right side - guard or tackle. Maybe Zach Rogers will work at right guard and they will keep Gibson at RT this week. Someone has to step up to the plate and show consistency. WRs are starting show some light --- Nance and Jones are emerging as mid-range and deep threats... Stewart and Hammonds are showing spark in the short game... CJ is emerging as a reliable target. Offense will get better as the season progresses but we need that one guy to step up to consistent SEC level on the right side to give an extra second or two to AA.
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jkstock04

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2017, 10:05:33 am »

I'm curious; is this a wish or a fear? 

Likes...? As for Alabama/Auburn are you saying there others like them on our schedule?  Because if that's what you mean by likes, I can assure you there are none like them among Miss, MSU, USCe, LSU and UM.

I have observed you like the worse case scenario about Arkansas.  My question is:  Why are you are "fan?"
Ya that's it, you got me. I am wishing for Austin Allen to be critically injured..good call. Are you really this dense?

I'm a fan because I've always been. Hogs are the only college team I've ever cheered for. Just because I'm not a a mindless homer guaranteeing minimum 9-10 wins this year like yourself doesn't make me less of a fan.

I don't miss home games. And I'll be getting on a plane early Friday morning heading to Columbia to cheer the Hogs. How about you Mr. Homer?
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Arazorbackguy1

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2017, 10:06:06 am »

I supposed I am talking about the line that still allowed Allen to get destroyed several times yesterday, including on one of the last drives of the game.  The guy is going to be a walking CTE patient by the time he's done at Arkansas.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #158 on: October 01, 2017, 10:08:56 am »

I supposed I am talking about the line that still allowed Allen to get destroyed several times yesterday, including on one of the last drives of the game.  The guy is going to be a walking CTE patient by the time he's done at Arkansas.

3-1/2 seconds. Need to get rid of the ball. But Allen is trying to allow the younger receivers to get open so he stands and holds the ball beyond that time limit and takes a lot of hits and Sacks he shouldn't be taking. About half the time there are pass pro issues among the OL, TE's and RB's, but the other half of the time it is on Allen and the WR's. If the WR's can't break open on time he has to learn to just throw it away. Being a competitor I am sure that is difficult for him which is why he is taking too many hits.

We've allowed 11 sacks through 5 games. Half of those are not on the OL.
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PorkRinds

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #159 on: October 01, 2017, 10:09:47 am »

We are an OT away from having a decent OL.
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parallaxpig

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #160 on: October 01, 2017, 10:27:46 am »

Passing: 19 for 26 / 264 yrds = 13.9 yrds per pass
Rushing: 228 yrds on 51 carries = 4.5 yrds per rush

Probably could be the Sunbelt Champions.....
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #161 on: October 01, 2017, 10:34:35 am »

We are an OT away from having a decent OL.

Wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson stays at RT and Rogers gets time at RG.  Rogers was solid when in yesterday.
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piggie 316

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #162 on: October 01, 2017, 10:45:29 am »

Wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson stays at RT and Rogers gets time at RG.  Rogers was solid when in yesterday.
I would like to see more of this also.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #163 on: October 01, 2017, 10:47:54 am »

Can wait for FOTH to come back with the grades after the OL faces some legit DL’s.
I always do.  Rather have the coaching staffs grades who know he assignments than the experts on the message boards.
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lakecityhog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #164 on: October 01, 2017, 11:08:34 am »

I thought that Rogers got in the game yesterday. Did Wallace ever get any snaps?
Saw in the participation chart that Merrick and Raulerson played were they on special teams or what?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #165 on: October 01, 2017, 11:09:22 am »

if a QB is holding the ball too long, he's not reading his progressions



Or he is waiting for someone to come open. I don't care which it is, if the ball isn't leaving his hand in 3-1/2 to 4 seconds (max) he is taking a chance that he is either going to get sacked or get drilled at the release.
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factchecker

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #166 on: October 01, 2017, 11:10:39 am »

I thought that Rogers got in the game yesterday. Did Wallace ever get any snaps?
Saw in the participation chart that Merrick and Raulerson played were they on special teams or what?

Rogers worked in at right guard toward the end of the game I believe.

Not sure about Wallace.

Did they ever say what Ramirez left the game with..... it looked like a shoulder injury from the stands but I never got word.  He came back in so it wasn't too bad.

I think Merrick and Raulerson play on field goal/extra point protection.
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HenduHog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #167 on: October 01, 2017, 11:10:55 am »

I think it is a number of things.

1. We build our lines for power (300lbs+ except for Clary). Power doesn't always translate well to pass blocking that requires agility, uper body strength, and quickness.

2. Some of it is pure talent. Not that they don't work hard, but if the guy across from is quicker, stronger, and more agile, he wins most of the time. As some have said, we don't recruit like Bama.

3. Strength . I've been complaining for years that our linemen (O and D) are simply not as strong as the guys they compete against. How many times do we see our Oline pushed back into the backfield? How many times have you seen our Dline blown off the ball?
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Con el Cerdos

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #168 on: October 01, 2017, 11:22:42 am »

I seriously worry about Austin Allen getting badly injured when we get into the meat of our SEC schedule. And I'm not even talking or thinking about losing our starting qb...I'm just worried about his well being, and no I'm not being facetious or sarcastic.

Our pass plays take too long to develop, O-line can't hold the blocks and he is gonna get absolutely hammered, planted, and beaten when we play the likes of Alabama or Auburn.

You're absolutely right, IMO.  Not sure he will survive the Bama and/or Auburn games injury free.  D for each is brutal.
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Arkansas Traveler

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #169 on: October 01, 2017, 11:30:19 am »

I respect the hell out of Austin Allen. It is amazing to me that Austin Allen gets criticized for holding the ball too long when he is doing it to try to make a play. Do you people not realize that he KNOWS he is about to get the piss knocked out of him?

Guarantee if he was throwing it out of bounds to avoid the hit, the Hogville narrative would be, "The kid is gutless."

The truth is, our offense is pretty complex. Has a lot of moving parts. I'm convinced that's why we tend to start every season slowly.
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jkstock04

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #170 on: October 01, 2017, 11:36:43 am »

Or he is waiting for someone to come open. I don't care which it is, if the ball isn't leaving his hand in 3-1/2 to 4 seconds (max) he is taking a chance that he is either going to get sacked or get drilled at the release.
I don't doubt this is part of the equation as well. From the first game I saw problems with receivers getting open...thus him holding on to ball too long. You are right on 4 seconds. Realistically you can't expect blocking to hold up longer than that.
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IronMountainHog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #171 on: October 01, 2017, 11:42:43 am »

Two.  For a total of 20yds. Three penalties in the game for a total of 35yds. Hold on Ragnow. Hold on Ramirez.  Roughing passer on Greenlaw. 
How about the yards we lost besides the penalties? I was at the game. In the first quarter we had about a 25 yard gain off a pass to the visitors side. That was wiped out, and we also lost 10 yards on the penalty. That's 35 lost, not just 10.
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DoubleReedHawgCaller

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #172 on: October 01, 2017, 11:48:39 am »

I’ll stand in for Benny.  497 yards, ZERO sacks, and 42 points and there’s a crappy OL thread.  Brilliant.
Don't leave out AA's missing teeth, busted chin, and the marathon he ran trying to keep from getting his brains beat in thru the first 4 games of the season too.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #173 on: October 01, 2017, 11:49:20 am »

I respect the hell out of Austin Allen. It is amazing to me that Austin Allen gets criticized for holding the ball too long when he is doing it to try to make a play. Do you people not realize that he KNOWS he is about to get the piss knocked out of him?

Guarantee if he was throwing it out of bounds to avoid the hit, the Hogville narrative would be, "The kid is gutless."

The truth is, our offense is pretty complex. Has a lot of moving parts. I'm convinced that's why we tend to start every season slowly.
The same people complaining about Austin holding the ball too long were complaining that Brandon left the pocket and threw the ball away too much.  What do you do when the answer to what your complaining about is what you’ve already complained about? Maybe we should just let Enos coordinate the offense.   I will say that the play action backside throwback to the TE has been shown so much in film that most teams are on to it.  The intentionally unblocked DE gives Austin a shot every time it’s called.  That’s the play where I worry about Austin getting nailed.
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DoubleReedHawgCaller

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #174 on: October 01, 2017, 11:50:38 am »

We are an OT away from having a decent OL.
WTH!!! Good lord man you're just delusional.
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LRHawg

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2017, 12:07:39 pm »

Wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson stays at RT and Rogers gets time at RG.  Rogers was solid when in yesterday.

Yes! I think this should be the starting right side going forward.
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Captain Morgan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #176 on: October 01, 2017, 12:10:37 pm »

It started w Samantha Pittman and ended with Kurt Anderson
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jm

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2017, 12:10:44 pm »

All of the above plus kids don't learn any fundamentals in high school.
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The_Iceman

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2017, 12:15:28 pm »

Merrick and Wallace not stepping up and being the players they should be. Investing so much time recruiting those two guys and for them to not pan out is crippling. Shouldn't have two 4-star all Americans sitting on the bench.
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jkstock04

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2017, 12:16:08 pm »

The same people complaining about Austin holding the ball too long were complaining that Brandon left the pocket and threw the ball away too much.  What do you do when the answer to what your complaining about is what you’ve already complained about? Maybe we should just let Enos coordinate the offense.   I will say that the play action backside throwback to the TE has been shown so much in film that most teams are on to it.  The intentionally unblocked DE gives Austin a shot every time it’s called.  That’s the play where I worry about Austin getting nailed.
Let Enos coordinate the offense? Weren't you the guy who put him and his play calling as the main reason why we lost to TCU?

I don't recall people complaining about Brandon Allen throwing the ball away too much. Like someone else said above...so far this year we have seen Austin Allen under constant pressure and taking a hell of a beating. I'm open minded that it's not all on the O-line. Coverage sacks and blown RB assignments. Not to mention he probably needs to recognize when they are bringing the house and audible out of it. Whatever combination it is hopefully it gets better quick.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #180 on: October 01, 2017, 12:16:26 pm »

The same people complaining about Austin holding the ball too long were complaining that Brandon left the pocket and threw the ball away too much.  What do you do when the answer to what your complaining about is what you’ve already complained about? Maybe we should just let Enos coordinate the offense.   I will say that the play action backside throwback to the TE has been shown so much in film that most teams are on to it.  The intentionally unblocked DE gives Austin a shot every time it’s called.  That’s the play where I worry about Austin getting nailed.

Did you see the film of Del Rio from Florida landing on the point of his shoulder yesterday? Broken collarbone...gone for the season.

I know that Austin is a competitor and wants to complete every single pass. I applaud him, his courage and tenacity for that. But this is where Enos has to drill it into his head (as long as we have WR's still developing and other teams catching on to our TE releases/patterns) that when you get to 3-1/2 to 4  seconds on that clock ticking in your head, whether anyone is open or not, get rid of the ball. Better to do that and try again on another play instead of taking the chance of getting hurt, being gone for good and us having to take a negative play. If fans don't like it, who cares? It is the smart play.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 01:29:22 pm by MuskogeeHogFan »
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incHOGnito

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #181 on: October 01, 2017, 12:20:54 pm »


LSU and FSU are far behind Bama in overall line talent......

LSU is not far behind. Look at the last ten NFL drafts and tell me who sends more prayers to the pros than any other university. Bama may have a better coached team, but is not more talented.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #182 on: October 01, 2017, 12:25:54 pm »

Let Enos coordinate the offense? Weren't you the guy who put him and his play calling as the main reason why we lost to TCU?

I don't recall people complaining about Brandon Allen throwing the ball away too much. Like someone else said above...so far this year we have seen Austin Allen under constant pressure and taking a hell of a beating. I'm open minded that it's not all on the O-line. Coverage sacks and blown RB assignments. Not to mention he probably needs to recognize when they are bringing the house and audible out of it. Whatever combination it is hopefully it gets better quick.
I’ve always like the Enos playbook.  My hope is that we continue to see more of it.  Against TCU, And anyone else for that matter, I wish they would spread things out rather than compress the line of scrimmage in the red zone. They aren’t 340 across the board anymore and can’t just go straight downhill against 8 man fronts.  4 for 4 in the red zone yesterday is a huge step in the right direction.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #183 on: October 01, 2017, 01:10:01 pm »

Merrick and Wallace not stepping up and being the players they should be. Investing so much time recruiting those two guys and for them to not pan out is crippling. Shouldn't have two 4-star all Americans sitting on the bench.
Merrick is a Sophomore.  Give him time.  Wallace... hope he can be a contributor next year. 
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hogginbama

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #184 on: October 01, 2017, 01:12:23 pm »

Two.  For a total of 20yds. Three penalties in the game for a total of 35yds. Hold on Ragnow. Hold on Ramirez.  Roughing passer on Greenlaw. 

FOTH, you know you can't bring stats and truth to these guys. They are all upset that the team won and actually showed improvement in some areas. Most of them were predicting a 7-5/8-4 season during the summer and now act as if we should be in top 10. I truly feel sorry for most of them as it seems they wake up everyday lokking for something to gripe and complain about. Thankfully Hogville exists so they can vent here instead of taking their frustrations out on their families.

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factchecker

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #185 on: October 01, 2017, 01:19:19 pm »

Two.  For a total of 20yds. Three penalties in the game for a total of 35yds. Hold on Ragnow. Hold on Ramirez.  Roughing passer on Greenlaw.

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Con el Cerdos

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #186 on: October 01, 2017, 02:41:47 pm »

I’ve always like the Enos playbook.  My hope is that we continue to see more of it.  Against TCU, And anyone else for that matter, I wish they would spread things out rather than compress the line of scrimmage in the red zone. They aren’t 340 across the board anymore and can’t just go straight downhill against 8 man fronts.  4 for 4 in the red zone yesterday is a huge step in the right direction.

If there is an answer to getting substantially better your comment is it, IMO.
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pigskenG

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #187 on: October 01, 2017, 02:49:59 pm »

just wondering. are we putting more emphasis on OL that can slide left to right for better pass blocking vs the road grader power blockers that we started with when Bielema got here ( like Wisconsin ) ?
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #188 on: October 01, 2017, 02:54:43 pm »

FOTH, you know you can't bring stats and truth to these guys. They are all upset that the team won and actually showed improvement in some areas. Most of them were predicting a 7-5/8-4 season during the summer and now act as if we should be in top 10. I truly feel sorry for most of them as it seems they wake up everyday lokking for something to gripe and complain about. Thankfully Hogville exists so they can vent here instead of taking their frustrations out on their families.


You might find this amusing.  HOGVILLE is a much bigger deal than any of us know.  We sat in the front row yesterday behind the bench.  Ragnow got called for holding.  All-American, future first round draft pick, Frank Ragnow.  Some guy a few row behind us started screaming, “Get 72 out of there!” “He sucks!” “”Can’t play worth a #%*#”
I heard a player on the sideline shout “King of HOGVILLE is in the house!” and a handful of players laugh.  That pretty much sums up how important any of us are.
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WaltonCollege

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #189 on: October 01, 2017, 03:24:45 pm »

Our tackle aren't long and flexible enough, poor reach. Our guards struggle with stunts, clary was blown up 4 straight plays by that DT Lopez. I know not every recruit is going to be a home run but Merrick, Heinrich, Wallace, Rogers all were 4 stars or higher. Someone's gotta start man come on that's just crazy.
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lakecityhog

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #190 on: October 01, 2017, 03:26:03 pm »

Wouldn’t surprise me if Gibson stays at RT and Rogers gets time at RG.  Rogers was solid when in yesterday.

Hate that it took 4 games to figure this out!
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jgphillips3

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #191 on: October 01, 2017, 03:30:27 pm »

You might find this amusing.  HOGVILLE is a much bigger deal than any of us know.  We sat in the front row yesterday behind the bench.  Ragnow got called for holding.  All-American, future first round draft pick, Frank Ragnow.  Some guy a few row behind us started screaming, “Get 72 out of there!” “He sucks!” “”Can’t play worth a #%*#”
I heard a player on the sideline shout “King of HOGVILLE is in the house!” and a handful of players laugh.  That pretty much sums up how important any of us are.

See, they really need to work on player education.  If that guy didn’t know who Ragnow was, he clearly doesn’t post on HOGVILLE.  :)
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Cure

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #192 on: October 01, 2017, 03:35:49 pm »

Sean Kugler is now available.
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factchecker

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #193 on: October 01, 2017, 03:36:48 pm »

Sean Kugler is now available.

UTEP fired Stone Cold Sean Kugler?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #194 on: October 01, 2017, 03:40:12 pm »

You might find this amusing.  HOGVILLE is a much bigger deal than any of us know.  We sat in the front row yesterday behind the bench.  Ragnow got called for holding.  All-American, future first round draft pick, Frank Ragnow.  Some guy a few row behind us started screaming, “Get 72 out of there!” “He sucks!” “”Can’t play worth a #%*#”
I heard a player on the sideline shout “King of HOGVILLE is in the house!” and a handful of players laugh.  That pretty much sums up how important any of us are.

By the same token, I am sure that much of that which is posted here and makes it's way to the team, doesn't seem informed, accurate or supportive to the team, which is why they get a big belly laugh. That fan, whomever he was, should be ashamed and drink less. Stupid is as stupid does.
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factchecker

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #195 on: October 01, 2017, 03:40:19 pm »

Yep, Kugler "stepped down".

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/1/16352378/sean-kugler-fired-utep-coach.

Please..... hire him as a consultant and move him into the offensive line position soon.

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rhames

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #196 on: October 01, 2017, 03:43:50 pm »

My thing is why not change the play at the line in the red zone when you see 10 people in the box.


Other than that I've been happy with the progress of the offense the last month.
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Arkansas Traveler

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #197 on: October 01, 2017, 03:51:14 pm »

By the same token, I am sure that much of that which is posted here and makes it's way to the team, doesn't seem informed, accurate or supportive to the team, which is why they get a big belly laugh. That fan, whomever he was, should be ashamed and drink less. Stupid is as stupid does.

Ah, but of course we have the best fans around.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #198 on: October 01, 2017, 03:52:27 pm »

My thing is why not change the play at the line in the red zone when you see 10 people in the box.


Other than that I've been happy with the progress of the offense the last month.

I don't disagree, I'm not sure that we do enough of that with a Sr. QB at any place on the field, if he is truly capable of reading defenses and their sets and recognizing their tendencies based on down and distance in any field position due to film study of the opponent. The staff should certainly be prepared to send in changes based on this information even if AA isn't capable of doing so on his own.

But, I will say that I have seen our RB's run to the wrong hole at times in the RZ when the hole was clearly provided by the O-Line for the RB to gash.
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rhames

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Re: What is wrong with the OL?
« Reply #199 on: October 01, 2017, 03:53:34 pm »

I don't disagree, I'm not sure that we do enough of that with a Sr. QB at any place on the field, if he is truly capable of reading defenses and their sets and recognizing their tendencies based on down and distance in any field position due to film study of the opponent. The staff should certainly be prepared to send in changes based on this information even if AA isn't capable of doing so on his own.

But, I will say that I have seen our RB's run to the wrong hole at times in the RZ when the hole was clearly provided by the O-Line for the RB to gash.



Oh yeah. There have RBs make mistakes as well.
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