It is NOT time to empty the stadium

[porkrindjimmy]

I don't doubt that recruits pay attention to attendance.

But if they ARE paying attention at yesterday's game, they also have to notice several other things that might impact their commitment decision.
1. An SEC team had all it could handle with a vastly inferior team.
2. The SEC team was poorly prepared.
3. Many of the players on the SEC team were mailing it in.
4. The coaching staff thats recruiting him is not likely to be here in three more weeks and for all he knows, he may not even have an offer after that.

If I'm a recruit and/or family of one, a full stadium is nice, but it isnt going to mitigate that.

And the anger has kicked in for my man Steef!!!

PRJ

[ArkansasI]

Thanks for the kind word.   The third-quarter results look a lot like October 29, 1929. Please don't think that I am in any way justifying this dismal season, the staff, or the players for that matter.  I straddle the line between fan and father and that is why I step away at times.  EVERYONE in the program takes responsibity for this season.  The old term "hold on to the rope" doesn't apply to this team.  This group is a spider web and no one is pulling in the same direction.  I should probably stop right there.

Stay strong. Don't let anybody, including me, dissuade you. We're all better for it.

[ricepig]

I am afraid that already is where the program is. You are right about how better programs have relentless fan support, but Arkansas isn't a better program and doesn't have it. Wish it were different, but it is not.

Bandwagon U, no doubt, and been that way for awhile.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Well, it certainly sounds like your son made the best of his time while at college. Good for him! (As a father of a 16 yr old approaching college, I mean that sincerely)

Your son obviously positioned himself to do well after college. And, that should be the goal for any student or student-athlete, whether it's in professional sports of another profession.

But, my point still stands... (and you proved my point by noting your son didn't choose the UofA because of attendance)...Saturday attendance is not about recruiting. It's a statement from fans about their discontent with the current state of the Football program.

If any recruit (or their parents) can't see that for what it's worth... they're an idiot.

The key is AP classes in High School.  He came in with 31 hrs so he technically  started as a sophomore during his redshirting freshman year.  I know we've butted heads in this thread, but I do see your (and others) perspectives and appreciate your opinions.  The program has got to improve and none of us are happy.

[FANONTHEHILL]

I don't doubt that recruits pay attention to attendance.

But if they ARE paying attention at yesterday's game, they also have to notice several other things that might impact their commitment decision.
1. An SEC team had all it could handle with a vastly inferior team.
2. The SEC team was poorly prepared.
3. Many of the players on the SEC team were mailing it in.
4. The coaching staff thats recruiting him is not likely to be here in three more weeks and for all he knows, he may not even have an offer after that.

If I'm a recruit and/or family of one, a full stadium is nice, but it isnt going to mitigate that.

The other side of that coin is
"this is an awesome place"
"The fans are into it despite the record"
"good school"
& most importantly, "I may see the field in year one"

That has an impact as well.

[ricepig]

The key is AP classes in High School.  He came in with 31 hrs so he technically  started as a sophomore during his redshirting freshman year.  I know we've butted heads in this thread, but I do see your (and others) perspectives and appreciate your opinions.  The program has got to improve and none of us are happy.

Yeah, saved me a semester of graduate school for my oldest, not sure what #2 is going to do, she is double majoring, too, but won't finish in three years.

[ricepig]

I live in Colorado and I watch the HOGS when I can get it.  But there is no way in hell I'm buying a plane ticket, Hotel Room, Possibly a rental car and a game ticket for that "flaming piece of dog crap" that BERT, his coaching staff and AD LONG is pedaling.  I feel for the players and having to endure all of the "negativity" but its not going to change until the coaching staff leaves.   
And I refuse to believe that players aren't "talking" among themselves and to recruits in private about the terrible situation they are in and possibly transferring.   

Those who aren't playing are, but they always are. So, you going to Ft Collins next year?

[Silver Hog]

I remember players telling recruits not to come here, and that was during an up period.

[GuvHog]

This affects more than just the stadium, our Alumni watch parties have dwindled down from 40+ a game to 3 or 5 depending on the opponent. Nobody wants to drive, to watch a noon game we are going to lose, and then drive back. Mowing the yard is more productive right now. And maybe more fun.

That sounds a lot like our local Spring Razorback Club meeting. In 2011 it was noting but wall to wall people (A Sea of Red) and there was a long line from the front clear out the back of people trying to get the HC's autograph. This year it was barely half full and there was no autograph line. What a difference 6 years makes.

[ArkansasI]

I am afraid that already is where the program is. You are right about how better programs have relentless fan support, but Arkansas isn't a better program and doesn't have it. Wish it were different, but it is not.

You disappoint me Biggus. I suggest there is no program with better fans than the University of Arkansas. I can't name a single program that has endured what Razorback fans have endured and continued to support their team any better than us.

I challenge anyone to name better fans. I've got a friend with season tickets on the 50 at OU due to the John Blake era. There is nothing uniquely negative in our fanbase.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Yeah, saved me a semester of graduate school for my oldest, not sure what #2 is going to do, she is double majoring, too, but won't finish in three years.

Our problem is our #2 is a lot more like Dad than Mom.  The AP hours may be few and far between!  He's a HS soph, so there's time. 

[Hoginsavga]

Unfortunately Jeff Long has created the environment where fans think the only way to be heard is by not attending games.  His optics is such that he expects most fans to 'eat cake'.

If fans decide to let JL know by not attending games, it's Jeff Long that's to blame, not the fans.

This is the truth but it also goes even higher IMO because I have not heard or read of any dissatisfaction from the powers that be. From my perspective it all appears it comes down to Longs decision and every public statement he makes winning is not a high priority. Thus it appears the fans have to step forward somehow to show our dissatisfaction.

Personally I am torn about the actions of what fans should do. On one hand FOTH has a solid position. On the other hand I hate the condition the program is currently experiencing.

I will say this with regard to recruiting, I think the program is in such disarray our recruiting and possibly transfers will take a hit this year if a change is not made. Most recruits want to know who their coach will be going forward.

[razorbackchamps94]

49ers game also

[Steef]

The other side of that coin is
"this is an awesome place"
"The fans are into it despite the record"
"good school"
& most importantly, "I may see the field in year one"

That has an impact as well.

I absolutely hate debating you on anything. You are one of, if not THE, classiest member of this board. Im certain your son is, as well.

But attendance isnt going to improve much, imo. Even if it does impact recruiting.

[ricepig]

Our problem is our #2 is a lot more like Dad than Mom.  The AP hours may be few and far between!  He's a HS soph, so there's time. 

That's #3 at my house, haha, a soph taking his first AP classes, oh well, there's always farming.......

[HoggyCat]

What are you gonna tell them?? The only thing they'll listen to is money rolling down the street.

[ATU HOG]

If you are a recruit there a couple things to look at when regarding coming to the U of A
1.  Can I help immediately for this 4-6 team.  If I can come contribute immediately and participate in the best conference in America, that's something to hand my hat on.

2.  What are the facilities like?  Do other schools have my major?  Is it normally like this or has there been better years?  TCU game for example was a great turnout.

3.  If I do come play for this staff what are my chances of playing and being successful... I look at Austin Allen and TJ Hammonds in this context.  Austin could have went to other big time programs but he chose to stay home and try and build something.  Unfortunately he's played half his career running from the opposing team.  Really unfortunate that a player of his caliber isn't reaching his potential due to poor development on the OL and poor recruiting on the outside.  Then TJ... lots of hog fans have seen his flash in the limited touches throughout his career.  If you're a guy that comes to the U of A on a visit and you look at the best player on the field and you ask yourself "why doesn't he play more?"  How do you justify that...  How do you justify to a recruit "he was a wide receiver 2 weeks ago before injuries moved him back to his real position."

I don't believe writing emails works... I know first hand it doesn't unfortunately.  It's unfortunate that it has come to this with the attendance but it does send a strong message that hog fans aren't going to put up with what is being placed in front of them.  I hope your son's last 2 years of football at the U of A are the most successful in Razorback history.  I didn't have the luxury of playing for the Razorbacks, but I did move to Fayetteville to be a hog and was able to graduate a hog.  Transferred as a junior, loved being a part of razorback nation,  and had 1 good football season with petrino before the downfall began.  There is not a better college experience than when the razorbacks are good at football and Fayetteville is rocking n rolling with a buzz that can't be matched. 

Thanks for your insight by the way.  Had a few buddies that worked with the program a few years back and my girlfriend is a former athlete for the university. Woo Pig

[FANONTHEHILL]

Sometimes you just have to just accept it and laugh.  If you remember John McKay left USC in 1976 to take the Head Coach job with the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers.  They went 0-14 their first year.  After a loss he was asked what's he thought about his team's execution.

He replied, "I'm all for it". 

That pretty much sums up this season for everyone involved.

[Steef]

Sometimes you just have to just accept it and laugh.  If you remember John McKay left USC in 1976 to take the Head Coach job with the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers.  They went 0-14 their first year.  After a loss he was asked what's he thought about his team's execution.

He replied, "I'm all for it". 

That pretty much sums up this season for everyone involved.

+1

[grayhawg]

We started to empty the stands in the BUD to get rid of Pelphry and still having trouble getting fans back so emptying the stadium is not an option. JMHO

[Porkette]

Since the original point of this thread was about how crowds and fan support affect recruiting specifically, I think it comes down to this: passionate fans who are intentionally staying away believe that making their voices heard is far more important to the overall future of the program, including recruiting, than anything else. (Plus in a time like this- terrible season and uncertainty over the coach's future- recruiting is going to be poor anyway).  And we all know that the only way to try to make our voices heard is through attendance and ticket sales. People believe they are looking at the big picture by staying home, and unless one knows someone on the team personally, I don't think that's an unreasonable point of view.

The more casual fans just aren't making Razorback football games a priority right now, because it isn't any fun right now. It's more worthwhile to go on a family hike or something on a beautiful fall day. If you're a person who is not as emotionally invested, that also makes sense.

I'm usually more of a loyal, feel-good,  "support the boys" kind of fan who doesn't like to think of college football as a business, but there comes a time where those feelings start to end. When being a Razorback fan becomes miserable instead of fun, and the program is not giving you anything back for your support, you remember the other side of the coin. You think about how hard most of us work each week at our jobs (often for not great pay) and nobody is cheering for us through the hard times. (Sounds silly, but I'm just making a point).  Then we're spending our hard-earned money and our precious time off to do this on the weekends. Or you think about your average college student who is NOT getting their education for free, is working hard and going to finish school with a mountain of debt, and doesn't get any of the extra privileges and pampering (fancy academic support centers etc) that college athletes get. Now please don't get me wrong, normally I don't complain about these things at all, because the program gives us so much in return. We as fans get to share in the fun and excitement of a football win without putting in the physical grind ourselves. We all get to be a part of something special together. But as I said, there comes a time where the feelings of affection end, when we're getting more misery than fun. There comes a time also when you wonder just how much these some of these players really do care, or how hard they really are working in practice, with the results we're seeing on the field.

[Porkette]

 By the way, sorry for my very wordy post above. I had a lot to say 

[EastexHawg]

Agree completely.  Go to the games to support the players, not the staff.  If you want to protest, write an email to Steinmetz and/or BoT members expressing your displeasure with Bielema and Long, wear a t-shirt to the game that says I SUPPORT THE PLAYERS, but don't boycott your own team.

Long doesn't care about your letters.  The fact is he needs to go, too, but he is not going to fire himself because you send him a letter.  Unfortunately, the only thing that will get the attention of decision makers is empty seats. 

What the players need more than apathetic fans coming to occupy chairs is a new administration that gives them the tools they need to succeed.  Letting Baghdad Bob Long pretend all is well is not the way to get that done.

[fieldturf]

The fans are being treated like cattle

Shell out mega dollars and be cramped in like sardines with no room to breathe?

The seating alone makes DRRS a bad product

I’ll say it again

The seating alone makes DRRS a bad product

Fans all over the nation are getting sick of all the respective tangible and intangible squeezes

That is a true statement, and with a poor coaching staff I think I'll stay at the house.

[Augustus]

The key is AP classes in High School.  He came in with 31 hrs so he technically  started as a sophomore during his redshirting freshman year.  I know we've butted heads in this thread, but I do see your (and others) perspectives and appreciate your opinions.  The program has got to improve and none of us are happy.

Yeah... my daughter is taking all the AP classes she can, and I'm all for it.

We're not butting heads, we're just debating/talking. It's not a bad thing for us to continue talking about our varied perspectives.

We know we're both Hogs fans, in the end. So WOOPIG

[sowmonella]

Every player that was dancing around like they had actually accomplished something yesterday needs to be gone in a perfect world.

18 year old kids being excited that they won a game in a season that I'm sure has been tough on them pissed you off?  Why don't you head off to your perfect world and quit finding new things to bitch about like the whiny jerk you are.

[Deep Shoat]

The other side of that coin is
"this is an awesome place"
"The fans are into it despite the record"
"good school"
& most importantly, "I may see the field in year one"

That has an impact as well.

There it is.  That's what a fan looks like.

[Steef]

By the way, sorry for my very wordy post above. I had a lot to say 

You said it well & respectfully.

[elksnort]

So, are you going to buy season tickets with a coaching change, be honest, now.

Do I need to PM you and explain my personal situation?

Maybe then you would understand.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Since the original point of this thread was about how crowds and fan support affect recruiting specifically, I think it comes down to this: passionate fans who are intentionally staying away believe that making their voices heard is far more important to the overall future of the program, including recruiting, than anything else. (Plus in a time like this- terrible season and uncertainty over the coach's future- recruiting is going to be poor anyway).  And we all know that the only way to try to make our voices heard is through attendance and ticket sales. People believe they are looking at the big picture by staying home, and unless one knows someone on the team personally, I don't think that's an unreasonable point of view.

The more casual fans just aren't making Razorback football games a priority right now, because it isn't any fun right now. It's more worthwhile to go on a family hike or something on a beautiful fall day. If you're a person who is not as emotionally invested, that also makes sense.

I'm usually more of a loyal, feel-good,  "support the boys" kind of fan who doesn't like to think of college football as a business, but there comes a time where those feelings start to end. When being a Razorback fan becomes miserable instead of fun, and the program is not giving you anything back for your support, you remember the other side of the coin. You think about how hard most of us work each week at our jobs (often for not great pay) and nobody is cheering for us through the hard times. (Sounds silly, but I'm just making a point).  Then we're spending our hard-earned money and our precious time off to do this on the weekends. Or you think about your average college student who is NOT getting their education for free, is working hard and going to finish school with a mountain of debt, and doesn't get any of the extra privileges and pampering (fancy academic support centers etc) that college athletes get. Now please don't get me wrong, normally I don't complain about these things at all, because the program gives us so much in return. We as fans get to share in the fun and excitement of a football win without putting in the physical grind ourselves. We all get to be a part of something special together. But as I said, there comes a time where the feelings of affection end, when we're getting more misery than fun. There comes a time also when you wonder just how much these some of these players really do care, or how hard they really are working in practice, with the results we're seeing on the field.

All of your points are valid and well thought out.

[hawgon]

18 year old kids being excited that they won a game in a season that I'm sure has been tough on them pissed you off?  Why don't you head off to your perfect world and quit finding new things to bitch about like the whiny jerk you are.

Tough on them?  Hardly...

[MissippHog]

18 year old kids being excited that they won a game in a season that I'm sure has been tough on them pissed you off?  Why don't you head off to your perfect world and quit finding new things to bitch about like the whiny jerk you are.

Amen.

[twistitup]

Lol, good luck......

What a game yesterday...did you go? How were the fans around you feeling before the 4th qtr?

I'm up in the blue collar seats..so you can imagine the groaning I heard- how was the general attitude among upper class fans?

[ricepig]

Do I need to PM you and explain my personal situation?

Maybe then you would understand.

Nope, you've said you had them previously and that a coaching change would bring in new hope, I was just curious, that's all.

[ricepig]

What a game yesterday...did you go? How were the fans around you feeling before the 4th qtr?

I'm up in the blue collar seats..so you can imagine the groaning I heard- how was the general attitude among upper class fans?

Nope, youngest had a golf tournament scheduled for Germantown, but had a medical situation that caused him to withdraw. I had already told my daughter to use the tickets. The lack of class fans at my house were cussing at the TV, it was beyond reasoning to watch our defense give up play after play.

[AnthroHog]

I've always thought that fans not showing up meant that they were upset by the team's performance and were showing the athletic department that they shouldn't be taken for granted.

We started to empty the stands in the BUD to get rid of Pelphry and still having trouble getting fans back so emptying the stadium is not an option. JMHO

Thought it was interesting that you brought up Pelphrey because that's what I thought yesterday while I looked at the stands.  I looked at the average attendance and national rank from 2001-02 which was Richardson's last season to last season:
Richardson - 2002 - 15,065 (13)
Heath - 2003 - 14,790 (14), 2004 - 14,792 (13), 2005 - 15,788 (9), 2006 - 14,958 (12), 2007 - 16,720 (9)
Pelphrey - 2008 - 14,148 (8 ), 2009 - 16,043 (11), 2010 - 13,182 (25), 2011 - 11,884 (29)
Anderson - 2012 - 13,096 (23), 2013 - 13,750 (20), 2014 - 14,023 (21), 2015 - 15,519 (11), 2016 - 14,879 (12), 2017 -15,247 (12)

http://www.ncaa.org/championships/statistics/ncaa-mens-basketball-attendance

If Anderson's teams keep winning, then the average attendance should start passing Pelphrey and Heath's highest totals.

[elksnort]

Fan, the vast majority of those posting about not going to the games don't go anyway, it's just noise. We'll see what attendance is for MSU, that will be a better barometer on fan support for the players.

Just because you don't attend the games doesn't mean you're not a fan.

[ricepig]

Just because you don't attend the games doesn't mean you're not a fan.

I didn't say that at all, Fan was addressed to FOTH, but feel free to join in. It was a post about those who don't go to the games saying they are staying home, that's all.

[kp72204]

I guess we need more Stepford fans.

[FATHAWG08]

Excuse me... but... just as it was your son's decision to attend the UofA and play for the UofA... it's every fan's decision to attend or not attend a game.

None of us fans "demanded" your son attend or play for the UofA. So... don't presume to "demand" fans to attend games.

We have a legitimate issue with the state of Arkansas football. And, on Homecoming weekend, the empty stadium is the best way to voice those concerns. 

NOT, as you suggest: "Contact the Razorback Foundation, The Board of Trustrees, your local state congressman, or the chancellor."... 

and your suggestion of "contact your local state congressman" is absolutely ridiculous. I want my state congressman to govern. Not wasting his time & tax payer dollars focusing on the Razorback Football program that he can't do anything about, anyways.

How should answer that question asked by the parent of a visiting recruit? 

How about: "Well, my son is pursuing his degree in <insert major here>, and the UofA has one of the best <insert major here> programs in the country. Given the statistics, I realize my son won't be going to the NFL, so this is just a means to an end, for my son to get his degree... They are all just kids going to college, after all, and they just happen to play football on Saturdays.

Also... if my son does do well on the football field, and my son decides to stay & work in Arkansas after college... I know that the State of Arkansas will stay true to him.
- A former quarterback (Clint Stoerner) opened a insurance agency and was successful, because Hog fans loved him
- A former tight end (DJ Williams) is a member of Arkansas TV news & sports media, because Hog fans loved him
- A former basketball player (Sydney Moncrief) owned a very successful car dealership, because Hog fans loved him
- A former quarterback (Quinn Grovey) is a member of Arkansas TV news & sports media, because Hog fans loved him
- A former linebacker (David Bazzel) is a member of Arkansas TV/Radio news & sports media, because Hog fans loved him... he went on to start the Nationally respected Broyles Award.

This is not about my son, or the players... this is about the fact that we all recognize that a coaching change is needed... and is most likely coming. And, I would hope you & your son account for that, before considering the UofA. Hopefully the Administration will act decisively to remove any doubt about the future of the Razorbacks."

Don't sugarcoat it... To do so would be insulting to the recruit and the parents.  The Razorback football program is in complete disarray.  Yesterday, we almost lost to a 1st year FBS team, the worst in the Sunbelt conference, with an interim head coach and a backup QB & RB.

I feel for your son and all the kids that have had to endure the last 5 years of what has been a calamity of Razorback Football. But the fans are actually on your's & your son's side.  Fans are hopefully making their voices heard to correct the calamity that has become Razorback Football.

Well said.. Best response to FOTH OP.

[elksnort]

Nope, you've said you had them previously and that a coaching change would bring in new hope, I was just curious, that's all.

I had them until and including 2011.  I had them in Fayetteville in the South Club area when they start in 2001 but gave them up because I did not use them all the time. I occasionally drive all of the state for work and I don't particularly like driving. Obviously,no reason to have Little Rock tickets anymore. 
If I had a sideline pass, I might go to more games.  But the in game experience I don't enjoy
Much anymore.

[elksnort]

I didn't say that at all, Fan was addressed to FOTH, but feel free to join in. It was a post about those who don't go to the games saying they are staying home, that's all.

No problem Rice. Another poster questioned  my fanhood in another thread. If I was not a fan I would not get uptight about it and watch them every week and certainly would not get on the message board and discuss it. 

[ricepig]

No problem Rice. Another poster questioned  my fanhood in another thread. If I was not a fan I would not get uptight about it and watch them every week and certainly would not get on the message board and discuss it. 

No problem.

[ricepig]

I had them until and including 2011.  I had them in Fayetteville in the South Club area when they start in 2001 but gave them up because I did not use them all the time. I occasionally drive all of the state for work and I don't particularly like driving. Obviously,no reason to have Little Rock tickets anymore. 
If I had a sideline pass, I might go to more games.  But the in game experience I don't enjoy
Much anymore.

I've been on the sidelines for a game, you really can't see much and they make you scrunch up around the 15 yard line. I was there with a guy from Jonesboro, it was several years ago.

[elksnort]

I've been on the sidelines for a game, you really can't see much and they make you scrunch up around the 15 yard line. I was there with a guy from Jonesboro, it was several years ago.

An old friend of mine was the videographer for the south Florida Bulls. When they play the Razorbacks at War Memorial in 2002 he got me a sideline pass. Of course he asked me to go to the Razorback side. I really enjoyed watching the ball game from that perspective and I can walk around and didn't have to sit. Man Kenny Hamlin look too fast and Shawn Andrews looked big

[Ex-Trumpet]

An old friend of mine was the videographer for the south Florida Bulls. When they play the Razorbacks at War Memorial in 2002 he got me a sideline pass. Of course he asked me to go to the Razorback side. I really enjoyed watching the ball game from that perspective and I can walk around and didn't have to sit. Man Kenny Hamlin look too fast and Shawn Andrews looked big

He was and he was!!

[elksnort]

He was and he was!!

yes the hogs could could use some players like that.

[ricepig]

After the LSU massacre, it will look like Homecoming! 

Nah, MSU is bringing 5000+ fans, so there will be more.

[Oklahawg]

That's fine.  I would agree.  You should point that out to the guy who brought it up.

We've had the conversation a few times. He is rational, I am rational, we find that helps us work through our differences.

[ricepig]

11a.m. Kickoff and deer season!  I'll believe it when I see it!  Of course, the UA will only announce sold tickets and not attendance!

Well, they haven't announced a kickoff time, so who knows, it definitely will be less at 11, than another time.