Losing the big 3, what does our defense look like next year?

[HogCard]

Losing Trey, Martrell and most likely Darius is a huge hit.  Many media outlets have us ranked very high on the early 2015 projections and they are citing our dominance in the trenches as the justification. 

Who has the best chance of replacing these guys?  What do you think the rest of the defense looks like by position? 

[trashcan maN]

We need Bijhon and Ledbetter to man up and own those 2 DL spots. Dont let a Fr beat you out. Let Lewis and Wise battle for the other DE spot.

Hoping we can move Brooks out to Spaights spot and Williams can take over at MLB

[thebignasty]

Need a couple out of Wise, Winston, Johnson, Jackson, Ledbetter and Froholdt to step up, no doubt. I was surprised at how natural Loewen looked at DE- do we get him back?  For the first time in a long time I actually feel pretty decent about linebackers and the secondary.

[trashcan maN]

Loewen will be back

[JackJohnson]

We need Bijhon and Ledbetter to man up and own those 2 DL spots. Dont let a Fr beat you out.

Hoping we can move Brooks out to Spaights spot and Williams can take over at MLB

This is my hope as well

I also wondered a couple of other options on the DL (hopefully the LB's are what you mentioned bc it seems like a natural progression for both of them)

1- Maybe instead of having Ledbetter be the next Flowers, he is now the next Philon?  He is actually bigger than DP (and slightly bigger than Flowers)

2- maybe move Taiwon to Philon's spot to be the undersized interior disrupter and have Jackson (who was backup tilt) to now be the starter in place of Johnson at the Tilt

Good news is we have the numbers, bad news is Flowers and Philon were monsters.  Here is to hoping whomever steps up the production and results are comparable

[emdavenp]

It's also important to note that we haven't had a DT like Bijohn in a while. Not necessarily a pass rush threat, but a huge run stopper.

It'll be interesting to see the dynamic of it.

[The_Iceman]

We need Bijhon and Ledbetter to man up and own those 2 DL spots. Dont let a Fr beat you out. Let Lewis and Wise battle for the other DE spot.

Hoping we can move Brooks out to Spaights spot and Williams can take over at MLB

Not sure if Ledbetter will be a DE or DT. Could play both depending on down/distance and whether it is a spread or power team.

[Amityvillehogger]

Thing to remember is Spaight and Philon weren't tabbed to be what they were this year. We knew they had talent but the light come on this year. (Philon may have, I don't remember? However, he performed better then most thought.) I am hoping this defensive staff can continue to make it happen for other players as well. Who knows, at the end of next year, we may have a completely different 3 headed monster.

[BatesvilleHOG]

I think we'll keep Brooks at MLB and Josh at OLD because he is faster/more athletic. I expect our young LB'ers to really shine. Ledbetter will play DE. Froholdt will be a beast. Henre Toliver should be the star of our secondary.

[HogCard]

Thing to remember is Spaight and Philon weren't tabbed to be what they were this year. We knew they had talent but the light come on this year. (Philon may have, I don't remember? However, he performed better then most thought.) I am hoping this defensive staff can continue to make it happen for other players as well. Who knows, at the end of next year, we may have a completely different 3 headed monster.

Good point.  Hoping they can take a couple of these guys and wreak some havoc

[Amityvillehogger]

I think we'll keep Brooks at MLB and Josh at OLD because he is faster/more athletic. I expect our young LB'ers to really shine. Ledbetter will play DE. Froholdt will be a beast. Henre Toliver should be the star of our secondary.

Really looking forward to seeing what Santos Ramirez can do also since they almost took his RS off a few times this year.

[Polecat]

Randy Ramsey has the athletic ability and length to be a really good LB if he has a great offseason in the film room and with Herb

[Pork Twain]

Losing Trey, Martrell and most likely Darius is a huge hit.  Many media outlets have us ranked very high on the early 2015 projections and they are citing our dominance in the trenches as the justification. 

Who has the best chance of replacing these guys?  What do you think the rest of the defense looks like by position? 

I love those three but before this year, only Flowers was considered a major factor heading into this season.  I am confident that our defense is getting to the point where we are prepared for guys leaving.  It will NOT be easy to replace them, but also not impossible.

[razorbackkid]

Got a few months to figure things out, got a few players to beef up, mean up and coach up.

:razorback:

[Sportster365]

We didn't even know them as the big 3 until the Texas game, so I suspect will find another big 3 in this upcoming Robb Smith defense.

[a0ashle]

I think ideally we wouldn't try to recreate Philon/Flowers/Spaight, but instead Robb Smith would create a new wrinkle to the defense that accentuates the strengths of the guys we have coming in. I don't expect to see the "Bermuda Triangle" again unless we see players with the same strengths as Philon/Flowers/Spaight.

[Fayettetopia]

We didn't even know them as the big 3 until the Texas game, so I suspect will find another big 3 in this upcoming Robb Smith defense.

Totally inaccurate. We may not have dubbed them "big 3," but we most certainly knew how valuable all three were to our defense. They were beasts, and we all knew they were our playmakers.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

Defense will take a step back without those three.  Philon would have wrecked havoc next year.  We are talking about replacing him with a redshirt freshman who hopefully will be serviceable but will be a big drop off.  Really stinks for us. 

[ricepig]

We didn't even know them as the big 3 until the Texas game, so I suspect will find another big 3 in this upcoming Robb Smith defense.

Then you weren't watching.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Totally inaccurate. We may not have dubbed them "big 3," but we most certainly knew how valuable all three were to our defense. They were beasts, and we all knew they were our playmakers.

New "playmakers" will emerge. There isn't any doubt that losing these three is a significant loss, but "next man up". Most of us thought that Flowers was going to be big this year and some of us thought that Philon was going to emerge, but no one knew for certain that Spaight was going to come up as big as he did, though we all hoped.

I would suggest that the defensive bar for performance at Arkansas has been raised, and that we will find guys who step up, though we aren't sure who those will be at this time.

[Razorfox]

So we might let LSU and Ole Miss score 7 points? 

[nchogg]

Many schools have used true freshman on defense which were big play makers. We have recruited pretty good and have new recruits. We have coaches on defense that teach players. There may be some drop off the first few games but they will carry on the legacy of the ones that left. That is what  Flowers, Spaight and Philon have shown the rest of the defense. The all will be students of the game.

[Sportster365]

Totally inaccurate. We may not have dubbed them "big 3," but we most certainly knew how valuable all three were to our defense. They were beasts, and we all knew they were our playmakers.

We knew coming into the season that both Philon and Flowers were going to bring it barring no injuries. Spaight was still a huge question mark. As the season progressed and the defense started to gel we realized just how valuable Spaight was to our D. I don't think that fully materialized to us fans until after the Mississippi St. game. I personally recall thinking about how much Ellis meant to our team after Georgia game when he was out due to injury. But the glaring difference between this years defense and last years was noticeable for me during the A&M game. Robb Smith exposed the Aggies and it was never any more evident to me then at that point of the season.

[Pork Twain]

We knew coming into the season that both Philon and Flowers were going to bring it barring no injuries. Spaight was still a huge question mark. As the season progressed and the defense started to gel we realized just how valuable Spaight was to our D. I don't think that fully materialized to us fans until after the Mississippi St. game. I personally recall thinking about how much Ellis meant to our team after Georgia game when he was out due to injury. But the glaring difference between this years defense and last years was noticeable for me during the A&M game. Robb Smith exposed the Aggies and it was never any more evident to me then at that point of the season.

People that "knew" what Philon and Spaight were going to be before this season are VERY few and far between.  This defensive staff had a LOT to do with how our players showed up on the field and I am completely confident that next year there will be 3-4 guys step up just like they did this year.  We have a several very good linemen on both sides of the ball.

[Lake City Hog]

The same thing could happen next year. With the scheme that Smith runs and the NFL style D'Line rush techniques that we have started using we could see several guys start making more plays.

Armon Watts is a guy that I am wondering about, 6'5" and 288 lbs, this kid could become a MONSTER! J Ledbetter is another BIG kid that could potentially help to fill the void left by Philon.

Might we see J Williams move to the outside? I just don't see Ellis giving up the middle, he is just too good there.

Folks we have the weapons and a guy that knows how to use them.

[tophawg19]

most knew that Philon was going to be very good . Lowen has the chance to be as good as Flowers . he is a bit quicker on the snap. I was totally surprised at his ability . Very strong kid too. he can dominate at times and is very disruptive . Just needs more work at the position.

[bennyl08]

We will be fine on the DL. I project Wise to really make the jump at DE this year. IMO, he is by far our most athletic DE. However, similar to Flowers used to be, he can often explode his way right past the play. Just like Flowers, it takes some time to learn how to control it. He was injured at the start of the season, had to work his way back, and so a lot of people have kind of forgotten about him. That said, with as much depth as we still have on the DL, I expect us the entire two deep there to basically all be starters.

LB is where the real question is at. First, assuming all of our scholarship guys play at a high level, that still doesn't leave us with a lot depth at the position. Moreover, we really only have 1 returning guy with much experience (I really wish we didn't lose Otha here). However, the guys we do have are pretty athletic. Two of them were originally safeties and are learning a new position and how to play at a very different weight. The other freshman was the size of a safety but essentially used the same trick some people use in the video game and put a safety at the DE position and just always rushed the passer. Given that that HS trick will almost certainly not translate to his time here, it is really hard to evaluate him from his HS tape, other than he has good straight line speed and is faster than HS OL players. Finally, we have JUCO in his second year here as well who, like Spaight, was very athletic but didn't see the field much his first year. Two of those 4 have to step up next season just to have a starting group, and the other 2 need to as well to provide some depth.

[ADavisTheGOAT]

Taiwan Johnson is really good from what I have seen.

[supersaint]

most knew that Philon was going to be very good . Lowen has the chance to be as good as Flowers . he is a bit quicker on the snap. I was totally surprised at his ability . Very strong kid too. he can dominate at times and is very disruptive . Just needs more work at the position.

I can tell that you watched Loewen with a keen eye. He's going to be really good.

[Lake City Hog]

Benny, could you see a combination of Ramsey, Ellis and Williams with Eugene and Hackett backing up all 3 spots? Williams could use his speed and athleticism in the same way as Spaight. Ellis is very solid in the middle and Ramsey has the look at least.

I agree with you 100% on the DL, we will be fine there. We have quite a bit of experience and tons of talent. Winston, Wist, Loewen ans Beanum will make it hard for anyone to crack the 2-deep at DE. That allows Smith all kinds of choices at NG and DT.

[regi]

The d-line is deep and talented. Wise, Winston B Jackson, T Johnson, B Lewis, T Beanum, Mitch Loewen, are all proven, Froholdt and Ledbetter will play early. Will be interested to see if the very athletic 4 Star, Jamario Bell is ready to play early. The key to the 2015 defense will be Collins, Tolliver and Dean. All three can play.

[31to6]

Losing Trey, Martrell and most likely Darius is a huge hit.  Many media outlets have us ranked very high on the early 2015 projections and they are citing our dominance in the trenches as the justification. 

Who has the best chance of replacing these guys?  What do you think the rest of the defense looks like by position? 

Well, unlike some I sure hope the answer is not incoming freshman.

People always get excited about the new recruits, but it is rare that a freshman comes in and dominates on the front-7 of an SEC defense.

I certainly hope that we are recruiting athletes that have the potential to play as freshmen, but I hope that in year 3 we don't need dudes a few months out of high school to carry the load.

[bennyl08]

Benny, could you see a combination of Ramsey, Ellis and Williams with Eugene and Hackett backing up all 3 spots? Williams could use his speed and athleticism in the same way as Spaight. Ellis is very solid in the middle and Ramsey has the look at least.

I agree with you 100% on the DL, we will be fine there. We have quite a bit of experience and tons of talent. Winston, Wist, Loewen ans Beanum will make it hard for anyone to crack the 2-deep at DE. That allows Smith all kinds of choices at NG and DT.

Something like that. Based solely off of HS highlights, I wouldn't imagine that Ramsey would be the one to come out on top, but that is largely because I didn't see do many linebackery things. I would assume that Williams would have a quicker adjustment from JUCO to SEC than the freshman would have from Safety to LB AND from HS to SEC, but I think the main 3 would be Williams, Ellis, and Eugene/Hackett with whoever the odd man out is above and Ramsey filling in the reserves. Like the DL, I imagine all 5 will see plenty of the field.

Also, while not part the "big 3", I think Tevin's name needs to be mentioned in a thread like this. While was moved from outside to nickel corner, he played exceptionally at the nickel spot. I think Toliver will be our main guy at corner next season with Dean and Collins being the next two. Would Dean stay on the outside, or could he take over the nickel spot?

[Augustus]

The defense will regress, after losing Flowers, Spaight, and Philon. By mid-October, there will be a thread on this board asking why we gave Robb Smith such a hefty raise. Book it.

Also, losing our OC (and possibly other Offensive Asst's)? The offense will regress, as well. I've seen a lot of cheering about Chaney leaving, and I have to shake my head. We're year 2 of a rebuild, and we're about to ask a Senior QB to adopt his now 3rd OC's gameplan, and the WR's we were counting on next year...  they just wasted a year learning routes that won't ever be used.

We were still in the rebuilding stage, not the reloading stage. And losing Chaney & Shannon hurts. I think Philon knew it, and that's why he made the jump to the NFL too early.

[shotgun7]

The defense will regress, after losing Flowers, Spaight, and Philon. By mid-October, there will be a thread on this board asking why we gave Robb Smith such a hefty raise. Book it.

Also, losing our OC (and possibly other Offensive Asst's)? The offense will regress, as well. I've seen a lot of cheering about Chaney leaving, and I have to shake my head. We're year 2 of a rebuild, and we're about to ask a Senior QB to adopt his now 3rd OC's gameplan, and the WR's we were counting on next year...  they just wasted a year learning routes that won't ever be used.

We were still in the rebuilding stage, not the reloading stage. And losing Chaney & Shannon hurts. I think Philon knew it, and that's why he made the jump to the NFL too early.

Not so sure, I don't think he would have got the raise he got if CBB didn't expect great things.

[Pork Twain]

I love all the people coming out talking about how great they knew Spaight and Philon would be before this year began.  Problem is that I do not remember them saying that before this year.  There was a lot of talk about trying to replace Smith, Jones and Thomas though.  We did ok there and we have a ton of talent on the lines in the last two classes that should be ready to step up and will be in year two of the Robb Smith Experience.

[ChitownHawg]

So we might let LSU and Ole Miss score 7 points? 

Dude get out of here with that negative attitude. A real Hog fan knows we allow only 6 points. A field goal a piece.    [sarcasm off]

[immahog]

I worried about LB depth .....but if you go back and look we played more nickle than a base 4-3 b/c of the teams we played and it will be the case this coming season.

we saw more of tevin mitchell than braylon mitchell

IMO the front four will be fine a lot of good dept on the DL Im looking to see who steps up to be the other LB with ellis an I think we see jared collins dean an toliver on the field with gaines an who ever steps up at Turner's spot ( J liddell)

[bennyl08]

I love all the people coming out talking about how great they knew Spaight and Philon would be before this year began.  Problem is that I do not remember them saying that before this year.  There was a lot of talk about trying to replace Smith, Jones and Thomas though.  We did ok there and we have a ton of talent on the lines in the last two classes that should be ready to step up and will be in year two of the Robb Smith Experience.

Your memory must be failing you on Philon. It was well established from the previous season what we had with him. Nobody had to say anything about knowing he "would be great" because his value as a player was already a known quantity. What you did hear was questioning the depth of the DT position.

As for Spaight, I don't think anybody is claiming now how they "knew" he would be great. However, what was already established including from the coach's mouth, was that Spaight was our most athletic linebacker. Therefore, his production this year was not a surprise as it just required his mental light to turn on.

[lahawg1]

I have read all the names here and everyone is overlooking Hodge. What potential does he have and also what adjustments will CRS make to make up for the less talented individuals?

[bennyl08]

I have read all the names here and everyone is overlooking Hodge. What potential does he have and also what adjustments will CRS make to make up for the less talented individuals?

Hodge is a, or at least to this point in his career, situational player. He's a guy you want to bring in to be that immovable object and anchor the line. However, in the past he has had issues with conditioning (his weight jumped quite a bit from two years ago to last year and from the looks of it, it wasn't all good). However, the bigger issue could be that his type of play is best in a read and react defense, eating up OL players so the LB'ers can react, but is much less effective in the pin your ears back and attack style defense. Not exactly the type of guy you scheme to run a loop. But, this is a new year. Some better conditioning, different players now may ask for a different scheme, different opponents may call for a different scheme, who knows.

[3kgthog]

I thought Wise would show some flashes this year, but according to ESPN he logged no action until the LSU game. That's not exactly avoiding a sophomore slump. Was he injured or did he simply not earn playing time?

[rljjr]

I would feel a lot better had Loewen not been injured and, as I think I read, will miss the entire spring doing rehab. That guy is a beast in waiting and was fun to watch. Speedy recovery to him.

I think we will be ok plugging in new starters, but there is still no substitute for experience. It will be as much fun next year to watch this team grow as it was this year. New names, same attitude. WPS.

[lefty08]

I thought Wise would show some flashes this year, but according to ESPN he logged no action until the LSU game. That's not exactly avoiding a sophomore slump. Was he injured or did he simply not earn playing time?

Injuries

[hoglady]

This happens every year to good SEC defenses that have talented players.
Players are lost early to the NFL (Philon)
It's part of it and comes with the territory.
If you're going to continue to be good you've got to have quality depth - cause the really good ones don't stay for 4 years.

[trashcan maN]

The defense will regress, after losing Flowers, Spaight, and Philon. By mid-October, there will be a thread on this board asking why we gave Robb Smith such a hefty raise. Book it.

Also, losing our OC (and possibly other Offensive Asst's)? The offense will regress, as well. I've seen a lot of cheering about Chaney leaving, and I have to shake my head. We're year 2 of a rebuild, and we're about to ask a Senior QB to adopt his now 3rd OC's gameplan, and the WR's we were counting on next year...  they just wasted a year learning routes that won't ever be used.

We were still in the rebuilding stage, not the reloading stage. And losing Chaney & Shannon hurts. I think Philon knew it, and that's why he made the jump to the NFL too early.

The defense will definitely start out in a lower gear than we ended on last year while people figure out their roles, but I expect them to get better every game, similar to this year.

As for the WR and QBs, no game experience is a 'waste'. I think you're overstating the amount of routes that are in the game of football. They will still be running seams, posts, quick outs, slants, flags, sluggo etc. All pro-style routes.

I'm hoping the difference will be the talent we have out there and the quality of the routes. I never saw one of our receivers make a guy leave his cleats behind because he was faked out so hard..

[LRrazorback]

Haven't seen Anthony Browns name mentioned. This guy got on the field as a true freshman early this year with all those good players in front of him. He's big and fast and will definately be in the two deep rotation if not starting. I could see him and Mitchell loewen sp? starting. Excited about the ends next year

[Pork Twain]

Your memory must be failing you on Philon. It was well established from the previous season what we had with him. Nobody had to say anything about knowing he "would be great" because his value as a player was already a known quantity. What you did hear was questioning the depth of the DT position.

As for Spaight, I don't think anybody is claiming now how they "knew" he would be great. However, what was already established including from the coach's mouth, was that Spaight was our most athletic linebacker. Therefore, his production this year was not a surprise as it just required his mental light to turn on.

No, my memory is fine.  Now we have a lot of people coming out after the fact and claiming something that was not the case before the season.

http://www.forwhomthecowbelltolls.com/2014/7/28/5944055/2014-sec-preseason-football-position-rankings-linebackers

I am not saying anyone thought either of those would be a bust but they surely did not voice their belief that they would perform to the level that they did and nothing about the previous year's results supported that, not to the level we saw on the field (On Phil Steele's list, Flowers was first team, Philon was 4th team).  I honestly think we are getting to the point with our defense that when someone leaves, someone else will step up.  That is the point of recruiting solid players, with a low miss-rate, redshirting them and developing them in practice and in the weight room.

Just look at the youth on our tackle chart compared to years past.  Very good trend.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2014/team/31/tackle/index.html

[trashcan maN]

No, my memory is fine.  Now we have a lot of people coming out after the fact and claiming something that was not the case before the season.

I get what you're saying, but I think most people expected Philon to be one of the most disruptive DL in the SEC this year, because he was the year before. It's not like he is an All-American and people are claiming they called it during pre-season..

[Pork Twain]

I get what you're saying, but I think most people expected Philon to be one of the most disruptive DL in the SEC this year, because he was the year before. It's not like he is an All-American and people are claiming they called it during pre-season..

No, but they are acting like he will be difficult to replace based on what he did this year and not taking into account that we have some very good players that we have recruited to play on our DL.  I am more worried about LB than DT, but Spaight came out of nowhere, so I take that into account and it greatly reduces my concern.  I believe we will be even better next year.

That is my biggest point here.  We did NOT expect the defense we saw this year, thanks to Robb Smith and I have no reason to doubt we will see even more improvement in that group with another year under him.  He was very impressive at Rutgers.