Paul Finebaum “expert” comments on Arkansas

[CiriusPorker]

Wow, CiriusPorker posting? Glad to see you back!

I'm pretty glad to be back, actually.  Just wish it were in better times...but hey.  It's home, right?

[Pork Twain]

Finebaum has a guy named Ken Cliffbrier (couldn’t clearly hear the last name so could be wrong.). Anyway this guy is more of a business expert that Paul occasionally has on and they were discussing vacant or soon to be vacant jobs in the SEC.
They covered Florida and Tennessee first.  When it came to Arkansas, Ken commented that Tenner and Florida were 1st tier jobs and could garner first tier talent.  He said that Arkansas was a 2nd tier job, and that their best bet was to look for an up and comer from somewhere like Memphis or Iowa State.
His opinion of Bielema was that the success he had at Wisconsin was really a product of Barry Alvarez’ system more than Bret’s talent.  He said he doesn’t see anything to make him think Bielema can do any better in year six than he did in year five and that Jeff Long is indulging in wishful thinking if he believes any different.
As an extra nugget they also discussed that Gus and his AD were reportedly no longer on speaking terms and that probably suggests one or the other will be gone after this season.
Just thought the comments were interesting enough to share.
WPS

I like all of those options, but Gus

[nwahogfan1]

65 power 5 football programs.  Arkansas is one of the top 15 or 16 jobs?

Grizzle I know you love the Hogs but you are so wrong.  When you leave our state,  Arkansas in football talk is not mentioned. Right now we are 2nd tier about in the middle of the P5 schools but sliding each CBB year towards 3rd tier.

[nwahogfan1]

I think Gus would be a good choice but I hope we have better options.

[bkjbearcat]

^^^THIS^^^^ Bert just never has made that a priority for some reason, he was all about Fl. when he came here, he was never a good fit at Ar. Then there was that little dust up when he pissed off all the coaches down there by demeaning their style of play.......

I was originally OK with Bert's focus on FL. It was a state the Hogs always had trouble recruiting. Yet it's the state most SEC schools go to first, other then their own. Same thing with GA. When he got Alex Collins to come here and not Miami, I thought it was going to the beginning of something good. Problem is, Collins was the best player he got from FL and the Hogs are no better or worst in that state then when Bert first got here.

The dust up at the coaches conference was a mistake. One of his worst as HC. My guess is the next HC will put in a spread. And weather it's Campbell, Norvell, Morris or whomever the recruiting in Texas will improve dramatically.

[hogsanity]

I was originally OK with Bert's focus on FL. It was a state the Hogs always had trouble recruiting. Yet it's the state most SEC schools go to first, other then their own. Same thing with GA. When he got Alex Collins to come here and not Miami, I thought it was going to the beginning of something good. Problem is, Collins was the best player he got from FL and the Hogs are no better or worst in that state then when Bert first got here.

The dust up at the coaches conference was a mistake. One of his worst as HC. My guess is the next HC will put in a spread. And weather it's Campbell, Norvell, Morris or whomever the recruiting in Texas will improve dramatically.

And still have no defense, yet ask it to be on the field even more. Yaa, can't wait.

[jwreynolds01]

Literally, the only reason we are considered lower than Tennessee is a freaking fumble in 1998.  Had they ruled that the ground caused it (it did), Tennessee would have no claim to being a better program than Arkansas.  But here is the bigger problem, they say that crap on a TV show, and it has the potential to become fact.  It could be the furthest thing from the truth, but because it is spoken someone will believe it. 

[hogfan10]

I don't understand that tier business.  We can pay whatever they can.  Sure it's easier to win at Florida but the expectations are much higher.  If a coach averages 8 wins here he'll be celebrated.  Averaging 8 wins at Florida gets you fired.  I'm not sure it's even easier to win a tenner and thier expectation are certainly higher. 

Really, Hatfield averaged 9+ wins/year and Nutt averaged 7.5 wins/year; and the fans couldn't wait to get rid of them.
Why did we as fans want them out; well Hatfield didn't win with the style that we wanted and Nutt chose not to feature a unproven (still to this day) freshman QB over 3 future NFL backs.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here's some data for you. The total record is through games played in 2017.

24/7 Recruiting Rank & Wins               
Year         Okla   A&M   Texas   OSU      Ark
2017          8       13      25       38       27
2016         19       18      7        45       23
2015         15       11     10       40       22
2014         14        5      17       27       29
2013         16        9      17       31       23
Total         72       56     76      181      124
5 Yr Avg   14.4    11.2    15.2    36.2    24.8
5 Yr Rec  48-12  38-22  28-30   44-16  28-31
Win %    0.800   0.633   0.483   0.733   0.475
               
Average Texas Players Signed Each Year               
Year       Okla   A&M   Texas   OSU   Ark
2013-16   8.8   18.5   17.3    11.8    3.0
2002-12   9.8   18.5   19.8    14.4    5.7

This may aide the discussion some.

^^^THIS^^^^ Bert just never has made that a priority for some reason, he was all about Fl. when he came here, he was never a good fit at Ar. Then there was that little dust up when he pissed off all the coaches down there by demeaning their style of play.......

Not a substantial difference as you can see above.

Everyone seems to be signing fewer Texas players than they used to, even Texas schools.

[Hogwild]

Grizzle I know you love the Hogs but you are so wrong.  When you leave our state,  Arkansas in football talk is not mentioned. Right now we are 2nd tier about in the middle of the P5 schools but sliding each CBB year towards 3rd tier.

Some already have us in tier 4

Tier IV — Best of the rest

Florida State
Nebraska
Clemson
Penn State
Miami
UCLA
Washington
Arkansas
South Carolina

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/ranking-the-secs-best-coaching-jobs-against-the-countrys-elite

[azhog10]

Would love to get a top defensive mind for our HC. He can hire a good OC, it seems you see more of those out there than top DC. Give me a guy that is really good defensively and we can find enough talent to throw some points on the board.

[Razorfox]

Literally, the only reason we are considered lower than Tennessee is a freaking fumble in 1998.  Had they ruled that the ground caused it (it did), Tennessee would have no claim to being a better program than Arkansas.  But here is the bigger problem, they say that crap on a TV show, and it has the potential to become fact.  It could be the furthest thing from the truth, but because it is spoken someone will believe it. 

I wish that were true because I hate Tennessee, but they have a WAY better record in the head-to-head match-up against us. 

[HoggieStyle]

The Gus Bus is headed toward NWA.

I really hope not. He alienated and/or pissed off way too many people.

[Grizzlyfan]

Grizzle I know you love the Hogs but you are so wrong.  When you leave our state,  Arkansas in football talk is not mentioned. Right now we are 2nd tier about in the middle of the P5 schools but sliding each CBB year towards 3rd tier.

Well I was actually questioning whether the other poster really believed that Arkansas was a Tier 1 job.  So I think you and I agree.

[EastexHawg]

Would love to get a top defensive mind for our HC. He can hire a good OC, it seems you see more of those out there than top DC. Give me a guy that is really good defensively and we can find enough talent to throw some points on the board.

Not disagreeing, but most "defensive coaches" want a ball control offense.  I have often wondered why any coach wouldn't want a top notch defense AND a high flying offense to go with it.  In other words, why try to win games 20-10 and not 42-10?  In my opinion the answer is that "defensive coaches" want the offense to spend more time on the field, even if in the process of getting off the field quickly the offense scores a touchdown.  How are defenses measured to determine how great they are?  By statistics.

A defense that allows its opponents to score 40% of the time is going to give up more points if its own offense gets twelve possessions per game...meaning the opponent also has twelve possessions per game...than a defense that allows the opponent to score on 50% of possessions but is paired with a ball control offense that only averages eight per game.

40% x 12 = 4.8 scores per game
50% x 8 = 4 scores per game

Now...is the offense that "only" gives up four scores per game really better, or does it simply have better statistics because it faces fewer opponents' opportunities?

This is why Buddy Ryan punched Kevin Gilbride on the Oilers' sideline...because Gilbride's run 'n' shoot offense wasn't running enough time off the clock and was screwing up Buddy's defensive stats.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

I'll disagree.

Willing to pay top dollar for a HC? Yes.
Great facilities? Yes.
Great Conference Affiliation? Yes, especially since it is located in the Eastern Division.
Ability to recruit top tier classes and talent? Yes. 2013-#25, 2014-#7, 2015-#4, 2016-#14, 2017(even with a down-trending HC)-#17

Compare that to Arkansas.

Willing to pay top dollar for a HC? Yes.
Great facilities? Yes.
Great Conference Affiliation? Yes, even though it is located in the Western Division.
Ability to recruit top tier classes and talent? No.

I bet Lane Kiffin could do it, but I sure do think we'd be selling our souls to let him try.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I bet Lane Kiffin could do it, but I sure do think we'd be selling our souls to let him try.

All you could count on with Kiffin is him calling Allied Van Lines and disappearing suddenly into the night. He has no sense of obligation to anyone other than himself.

[Davidr295]

Can someone tell me why Gus would come here?

Money? Okay, that's a valid reason.

But he'd be leaving a school with a far more fertile recruiting base to move to a school where he'd still have to play the same teams he plays now but with a tougher recruiting base.

He's won 8, 7, and 8 in his last three years at Auburn. What shows that he would do better than that here, or even get to those win totals?

I'll pass.

Yeah who would want a coach that actually has beat Saban's bama and been to a nation championship. Why would we want a coach like that. And drumbs us every year.

[31to6]

Yeah who would want a coach that actually has beat Saban's bama and been to a nation championship. Why would we want a coach like that. And drumbs us every year.

I agree that he is a good coach, but he is not a good enough coach to want a weasel like him back in the program.

[j-mann]

if i coached  Ark 

here is what i wouild do   

run a hybid off   haif spead haif keep ball away     and on def  make teams do what they dont want to do   ie  Bama  make them throw every down   mizz  make them power run every down   

tell the ad look with 8 sec games unlees a okle or okie st  wants to play us  lets load our non conf with teams like umass army   e mich  nevada  teams that willing to just take out $$

recudit  miss bama hard for 3 star kids that wanted to be bama and auburn miss and miss st  really bad
i wouild have every 1 of my coaches  in texas as well  the goal after 4 years wouild be 35 tex players on this roster   

[Philip Seaton]

The Gus Bus is headed toward NWA.

Sorry. Not going to and shouldn't happen.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Let's see, haven't we gotten higher prestige coaches our last two hires than either Florida or Tennessee?

Seems we have,

Petrino and Bielema better than,

Lane Kiffin and Butch Jones

Muschamp and McElwin(sp)

Someone want to try again?

[Youngsta71701]

Finebaum has a guy named Ken Cliffbrier (couldn't clearly hear the last name so could be wrong.). Anyway this guy is more of a business expert that Paul occasionally has on and they were discussing vacant or soon to be vacant jobs in the SEC.
They covered Florida and Tennessee first.  When it came to Arkansas, Ken commented that Tenner and Florida were 1st tier jobs and could garner first tier talent.  He said that Arkansas was a 2nd tier job, and that their best bet was to look for an up and comer from somewhere like Memphis or Iowa State.
His opinion of Bielema was that the success he had at Wisconsin was really a product of Barry Alvarez' system more than Bret's talent.  He said he doesn't see anything to make him think Bielema can do any better in year six than he did in year five and that Jeff Long is indulging in wishful thinking if he believes any different.
As an extra nugget they also discussed that Gus and his AD were reportedly no longer on speaking terms and that probably suggests one or the other will be gone after this season.
Just thought the comments were interesting enough to share.
WPS

Sounds about right.

[Redhogs]

All you could count on with Kiffin is him calling Allied Van Lines and disappearing suddenly into the night. He has no sense of obligation to anyone other than himself.

Sure appears that way.

[Redhogs]

Sorry. Not going to and shouldn't happen.

thank god.

[100%Razorback]

Gus, Kiffin, or Norvell. I'm good with any of these 3.

[Redhogs]

Yeah who would want a coach that actually has beat Saban's bama and been to a nation championship. Why would we want a coach like that. And drumbs us every year.

Meaning what? Everybody smokes us except Fbs and Fcs teams.

[GuvHog]

Yeah who would want a coach that actually has beat Saban's bama and been to a nation championship. Why would we want a coach like that. And drumbs us every year.

He'd burned too many bridges by the time he left the state after the 2006 season. Not happening.

[Athog]

The Gus Bus is headed toward NWA.

Oh great!! Get the banner mad up now!! How long till Hogville wants attention!

[razorbackfaninar]

Yeah who would want a coach that actually has beat Saban's bama and been to a nation championship. Why would we want a coach like that. And drumbs us every year.

He beat Alabama in 2013, same year he went to the National Championship and lost and he has settled into mediocrity ever since.  The fact is that Gus would probably be better than Bielema, but still not a good coach at Arkansas.  He will not get the same quantity of quality players he gets at Auburn and will be coaching in the same division of the same conference that he is currently middling in right now. I mean we have a good body of work to show how he would do in the SEC West with top 10 recruiting classes.  How could anyone assume he is going to do better than he currently is doing right now only with less talented depth on his team?

[pigbacon]

He'd burned too many bridges by the time he left the state after the 2006 season. Not happening.

What did he do to burn bridges? I've never understood the ridicule for what appeared to be a dismal situation to say the least. Is it that he is considered an opportunist who took advantage of a situation to self serve? How many on this board would not have done the same in similar situations? Maybe I'm just seeing it differently.

[Big Boi]

Would love to get a top defensive mind for our HC. He can hire a good OC, it seems you see more of those out there than top DC. Give me a guy that is really good defensively and we can find enough talent to throw some points on the board.

yes! Because Arkansas has a rich SEC history of great LB and DL play.*

[Peter Porker]

Man I'm taking feelings out of it. Id take Gus for sure if he wanted to coach here, dude fields nasty defenses that actually lay the wood and their offense is fun to watch and put up points. He wins games plain and simple. Winning would be cool!

nasty defense full of 4 and 5 stars from alabama and georgia that won't be coming here. you guys realize this correct? besides, gus' recruiting ranking are seemingly top 10 and yet his record isn't much better than what we have. Now, what would he do with less talent?

[HF#1]

Gus is retiring and moving back to Arkansas?

Seriously though, that's the only way Gus will ever return to the state of Arkansas.

You have no evidence of this.

[HF#1]

For all the people against Gus, does he not check a lot of boxes for what Arkansas needs to succeed? Everyone is automatically a no on him for whatever reason but if Long were to pull that off, it would be a legit move and we would be instantly better for it.

[USChog]

Arkansas would be in good hands if Gus came to Fayetteville. I'm not saying he is my number one choice, but I would not be angry if he were the next coach of the Razorbacks.

[HF#1]

Arkansas would be in good hands if Gus came to Fayetteville. I'm not saying he is my number one choice, but I would not be angry if he were the next coach of the Razorbacks.

My initial reaction was NO but HELL NO.  Then after I thought about it, it would be a fantastic fit.

[Nashville Fan]

AR is tier 1 job because if you win 7-8 games a year and don't fall off a motorcycle or harass a player, you can coach there for life. Not many jobs like that left.

[Con el Cerdos]

A tier 1 school is one where a good coach can average 9+ regular season wins in a P5 conference mainly due to being able to out-recruit competing schools.

Tier 1 schools
Texas
Notre Dame
Florida
Georgia
LSU
Bama
USC
Michigan
Ohio St
Penn St
Florida St.

These schools with a very good/great coach can be at the Tier 1 level
Miami
Auburn
Tennessee
UCLA
Nebraska
Clemson


Arkansas is not tier 1. No coach will average 9 wins at Arkansas. A very good/great coach can come to Arkansas and win 10 games every 3 or 4 years though. Rivals has Arkansas currently ranked 67th for 2018 recruiting.

And has not been since 1989.

[GuvHog]

You have no evidence of this.

As I stated earlier, Gus burned a lot of bridges in 2006. He will not be the HC at Arkansas.

[rhames]

As I stated earlier, Gus burned a lot of bridges in 2006. He will not be the HC at Arkansas.

110%  Gus will be coach now. Thanks a lot Guv.

[hogsanity]

Not a substantial difference as you can see above.

Everyone seems to be signing fewer Texas players than they used to, even Texas schools.

Those hanging their hat on recruiting Texas harder still think it is 1985.

Texas recruits are more spread out because EVERYONE is recruiting Texas, plus Texas, like every where else except FLA, AL, Ga, LA, and Cali, are producing the same type of players, all the talent is put at WR and QB. Unfortunately, teams still need OL that can actually block moving forward, DL and Lb's that can tackle, and Db's that can cover.