Drake Field Question...

[rowdy1]

Great, and very interesting thread that I would like to read more about....post, post, post away!!

[FaytownHog]

It is not something to jump into lightly. I have a good job as does my wife. She's a nurse and I'm a manager for a mortgage company.
We spend about $950 per month on the plane financing and $190 monthly for insurance.
I let a friend who runs an FBO fly her sometimes and in exchange I get to park the bird in a heated hangar free.
Avgas runs about $1 more per gallon than auto gas and I burn 15 gallons an hour in cruise. But with a nice tailwind I can get 200 knots per hour.
To be honest, I don't fly as much as I thought I would and I am looking for a partner.
My advice for anyone looking to buy a plane is buy used and get a partner to split expenses.

Definitely some good advice in there! I think once I get my license I will start out with a partnership with another person or 2/3. I see some that are co-owned by like 4 people or a small group. I definitely like the idea to split the cost, just hope with very many people there wouldn't be too many scheduling conflicts.

[FaytownHog]

Bro I promise I consider it a huge blessing, and I am as giddy as a schoolboy every time I get the chance!

I really lucked into it... I learned to fly in college, I went to a school that offers aviation degrees and took the advantage of learning to fly. I now work in a field where I am privy to have free reign to a friends hangar. He owns a Cessna 150, a Cessna 172, A piper super cub and a pressurized beech baron (I stay away from the baron)

I admit, recreational flying has gotten to the point that the average joe is simply priced out. It is a privilege that i don't take for granted.

Wow, you ARE lucky! haha. But seriously that's great and it's a little hope hanging out there for me too maybe! I hope I can luck into something like that or similar in the future. Glad to see you are appreciative of it and not taking it for granted.

[Gas Can]

Is it this one or the red one? 

How did you get a pic of my cub?  And where was that taken?

[Flying Razorback]

How did you get a pic of my cub?  And where was that taken?

That's a beautiful Cub, I need one.  I'd find it hard to go back to no weather radar, no TCAS, and not being able to climb at 4000-6000 fpm.  It's definitely a different world and it's hard to get to do both.

[Pigsknuckles]

Why do you stay away from the Baron?  That's a good little plane.  Nice lineup overall.

I went to Costa Rica this summer and rented a pilot and Piper Arrow.  When he found out I had 3x the hours he did he let me fly which was awesome.  Flying VFR over the rain forest in another country is pretty sweet.  We arrived at our destination and I let him take the landing since it was a 25' wide hard pack strip in the rain forest.

I liked the Arrow. Fast, with plenty of pony's (albeit a bit loud), and you could get down in a hurry with those short Hershey Bar wings (see reply #34). Nice gear warning system, though sometimes aggravating on lift off, or maneuvering if you didn't use the override.

[BloodRedHog]

FaytownHog,
Not sure how far along you are in your training, but don't stop...a lot of flight students never finish for one reason or another. I didn't get my license until after age 40 and once I did it, it gave me a huge sense of accomplishment. I also regretted not doing it 20 years sooner. Once you are finished, you will join a select group of Americans. Private pilots make up less than .002 of the U.S. population.

Another thought on airplane ownership...find a good flying club. Might work better than a partnership.

[Flying Razorback]

You can start making real good friends and connections through the flying world as well.  You don't have to be the pushy guy that is always in the FBO like a salesman looking to meet people.  But there are plenty of events at FBOs that you can attend with your instructor and others you generally interact with.  Let your interests be known about wanting a chance to be fractional or in a flying club and you never know when you'll meet the right person.

And the best thing about aviation is the old adage of shared experience.  We all learn from each others' successes, near misses, and failures.  Pilots sitting around talking is the best way to add tips, techniques, and procedures to your tool kit to save your own hide one day.  Even if you're never able to get fully vested in aviation, the recreational pilot will always gain tons by hanging with those who have "been there" before.

[BloodRedHog]

And the best thing about aviation is the old adage of shared experience.  We all learn from each others' successes, near misses, and failures.

Someday I might post my story of an icing encounter...at night...with my family on board. Man, that was dicey.

[Flying Razorback]

Someday I might post my story of an icing encounter...at night...with my family on board. Man, that was dicey.

Icing is no joke and I'm used to pretty good anti-ice equipment.  I'm glad you all made it back and pray you don't have to have something like that again.

[FaytownHog]

FaytownHog,
Not sure how far along you are in your training, but don't stop...a lot of flight students never finish for one reason or another. I didn't get my license until after age 40 and once I did it, it gave me a huge sense of accomplishment. I also regretted not doing it 20 years sooner. Once you are finished, you will join a select group of Americans. Private pilots make up less than .002 of the U.S. population.

Another thought on airplane ownership...find a good flying club. Might work better than a partnership.

You can start making real good friends and connections through the flying world as well.  You don't have to be the pushy guy that is always in the FBO like a salesman looking to meet people.  But there are plenty of events at FBOs that you can attend with your instructor and others you generally interact with.  Let your interests be known about wanting a chance to be fractional or in a flying club and you never know when you'll meet the right person.

And the best thing about aviation is the old adage of shared experience.  We all learn from each others' successes, near misses, and failures.  Pilots sitting around talking is the best way to add tips, techniques, and procedures to your tool kit to save your own hide one day.  Even if you're never able to get fully vested in aviation, the recreational pilot will always gain tons by hanging with those who have "been there" before.

Great advice! Thank you! I've heard this from other pilots too. The icing thing does scare me though I'll admit. I was at the scene of the hot springs dentist crash a couple years ago (they were flying to a basketball game), so I know full well the real danger that is there. Kinda makes me weary of flying in the winter at all.

[bvillepig]

Great thread. Would be great to have a get together some day .

I have had one encounter with ice in our Saratoga coming into northwest Arkansas very tense. 
Y'all take care

[theFlyingHog]

Great thread. Would be great to have a get together some day .

I have had one encounter with ice in our Saratoga coming into northwest Arkansas very tense. 
Y'all take care

I've been looking for some people to have a 1lb flour bag drop with. Haha.

[Flying Razorback]

A Hogville fly in?!  Sounds like a blast! 

[bvillepig]

Hogville fly in. I'm in.

[El Guapo]

The Drake fly-in was a success... we nearly froze when we got to the hill though. Always nice to taxi out at Longview sweating and shiver when you get to fayettenam.

double check the weather. 30% t-storms both sat and sun. use flight following? a good place to stretch the legs is Poteau, ok.

Big thanks and +1 for this advice!! We stopped and waited out some weather in Poteau on the way up. Nice little field with a nice lounge to relax and watch some football while we waited.


On our approach into Drake


Our 172 at Poteau

[BloodRedHog]

Here is my bird. This was the day I flew into KAFW for the A&M game last year.

[FaytownHog]

Check out this story shot out at Drake a couple weeks ago. It's about a 77 year old who just got his pilot's license at the flight school out there. Thought the people in this thread would like it!
http://www.5newsonline.com/news/kfsm-77yearold-determined-to-fly-gets-pilots-license-20110921,0,417314.story

[MDH]

I'm flying a Beech 400 so we have to make all climbouts with one engine inoperative.  In the summer or a wet runway our takeoff roll can get pretty long.

Well if you're flying a DiamondJet turned Beech, just land in XNA and get a limo   Yeah they've needed to upgrade Drake for a while, but with the other airports in the area I'm sure it's hard to justify the expense, which is a shame.

I didn't know they had a shuttle from Drake.  I might have to try and get the Comanche up there for one game.  Getting too expensive to fly much anymore (and more so if the government gets their way with the airspace fees), I've not had the opportunity since I moved back.  Flown it around the patch a time or two, but that's about it.  Can't really justify flying it unless someone is renting it.

[MDH]

I'm new to the flying world, but really love to fly and can't wait to keep taking lessons and get my license. But I guess my question would be, (you don't have to answer if you don't want to), what the heck do you guys do to be able to afford even a fixed wing plane much less a beach400? Holy crap that's expensive! Not to mention putting fuel in it, ect.
It'd be my dream to own a plane some day but I can't figure out how it would even be possible for me.

It's not as bad as you think.  It doesn't take too much to get into a decent Cherokee 140 or a Cessna 150 (25k to 35k).  Most people who drive RV's up there have quite a bit more than that in them and probably spend more on gas.

The real expense is the ongoing maintenance to keep them up.  And you do need to fly them fairly regularly.  The worst thing for an airplane is to just let it sit.

[MDH]

Definitely some good advice in there! I think once I get my license I will start out with a partnership with another person or 2/3. I see some that are co-owned by like 4 people or a small group. I definitely like the idea to split the cost, just hope with very many people there wouldn't be too many scheduling conflicts.

Though I've never been involved in one, there are flying clubs at some of the larger airports in the area- Fort Smith and Texarkana I know for sure.

My approach was a bit different than those listed above.  I work in the industry, doing avionics.  I also grew up in it, my Dad flies for a living, he's 84 and still ferrying stuff around the country.  Quite a few years ago my dad and I got into a 1959 Comanche 180 that had been bellied in on a grass strip.  We restored it with the intention of making it a show plane, which he had never been able to justify before because he didn't want to get upside down in anything he bought.  With the help of a few good people we know we succeeded.  She got Best Custom Contemporary a couple of years ago at Sun & Fun.  We were going to fly her up to Oshkosh this year, but had to cancel at the last moment.

[FaytownHog]

It's not as bad as you think.  It doesn't take too much to get into a decent Cherokee 140 or a Cessna 150 (25k to 35k).  Most people who drive RV's up there have quite a bit more than that in them and probably spend more on gas.

The real expense is the ongoing maintenance to keep them up.  And you do need to fly them fairly regularly.  The worst thing for an airplane is to just let it sit.

Sounds like if you're a casual flyer it may just be better to rent the flight time.

[MDH]

And the best thing about aviation is the old adage of shared experience.  We all learn from each others' successes, near misses, and failures.  Pilots sitting around talking is the best way to add tips, techniques, and procedures to your tool kit to save your own hide one day.  Even if you're never able to get fully vested in aviation, the recreational pilot will always gain tons by hanging with those who have "been there" before.

I second that.

Speaking of toolkit, iPad + Foreflight is just amazing.

[MDH]

Sounds like if you're a casual flyer it may just be better to rent the flight time.

Yes and no.  It's nice to get familiar with an particular aircraft and with a rental you don't have any control over when it gets sold or how it is equipped or maintained.  I do think, as someone said earlier, that Flying Clubs or Fractional Ownership offers a more affordable option that is superior to just straight up renting in most cases.  I'm not saying all rental aircraft are bad, there are some pretty damn nice ones, particularly in NWA.

[dc10x1103]

i am one of the luckiest people on earth.  i flew this plane all over the world, and after i retired, i wasn't ready to hang it up, so i have been flying a corporate jet, a flacon 50, for the past few years.  if there is anything better i don't know what it would be.

[Verge]

Alright, who are the rich bastages in the private jets. There were several leaving after the game. One of them was scooting pretty good, i guess he was in a hurry.

[MDH]

i am one of the luckiest people on earth.  i flew this plane all over the world, and after i retired, i wasn't ready to hang it up, so i have been flying a corporate jet, a flacon 50, for the past few years.  if there is anything better i don't know what it would be.

Wouldn't be better for me, I like being in my own bed each and every night, which I knew wouldn't be the case if I followed in my father's footsteps.  You kind of have to be wired to enjoy being on the road, which I'm not.

Funny thing is we had three G450's and one G550 when I worked at Clay Lacy.  The G4 guys were chomping at the bit to get in them, then after about a month they didn't want to fly them anymore because those planes would go to BFE Africa or somewhere similar and be flying around there for a couple of weeks or a month.

Oddly enough I'll be doing an RVSM certification and a few other inspections on a 50 in NWA next week.  I don't do near the jet work here that I did in LA, but I have about 1% of the stress here which makes it all worth it.  Plus I really do enjoy fixing up vintage aircraft, which we don't always get to do but one or two a year sates the appetite.

[Grunt]

It's not as bad as you think.  It doesn't take too much to get into a decent Cherokee 140 or a Cessna 150 (25k to 35k).  Most people who drive RV's up there have quite a bit more than that in them and probably spend more on gas.

The real expense is the ongoing maintenance to keep them up.  And you do need to fly them fairly regularly.  The worst thing for an airplane is to just let it sit.

bet you could get the 150 lot cheaper than 25k

[Grunt]

Sounds like if you're a casual flyer it may just be better to rent the flight time.

yes. yet i owned one for a few years and used weekly to commute for out of town work. just loved it. also you can usually get your money back when you sell. good advice for the young: get your ap license and DO YOUR OWN ANNUALS! this will save you a fortune.

[FaytownHog]

bet you could get the 150 lot cheaper than 25k

Just looking them up on ebay, if you get into the 1960's-70's models you can get them from 8k-15k. Seems like the technology would need (or would be nice to have) an upgrade.

[Grunt]

Just looking them up on ebay, if you get into the 1960's-70's models you can get them from 8k-15k. Seems like the technology would need (or would be nice to have) an upgrade.

i used a little hikers gps ($100) velcroed to the yoke. on two pages, had all the instruments i needed. replaced all except the fuel guage and did more. amazing accuracy.

[MDH]

Just looking them up on ebay, if you get into the 1960's-70's models you can get them from 8k-15k. Seems like the technology would need (or would be nice to have) an upgrade.

Id question the condition of a 150 in that price range, particularly on the mid to low end of it Even @ around 14 to 15 it's probably going to need some work.  Before you do anything about buying an aircraft you really need to have someone who knows what they are looking at go over the aircraft.

[FaytownHog]

Id question the condition of a 150 in that price range, particularly on the mid to low end of it Even @ around 14 to 15 it's probably going to need some work.  Before you do anything about buying an aircraft you really need to have someone who knows what they are looking at go over the aircraft.

most definitely. Even if I knew a lot of stuff about planes I'd take someone else with me for a second opinion. It's just too important of a piece of machinery, that you're putting your life in its hands to take chances on it.

[f20hog]

I'm flying a Beech 400 so we have to make all climbouts with one engine inoperative.  In the summer or a wet runway our takeoff roll can get pretty long.

Climb gradient is both engines turning not one inop. Are you part 91 or 135?Have you ever used APG. Calculated engine out performance. We use it out of KASE, KEGE, and KRIL.

[theFlyingHog]

Climb gradient is both engines turning not one inop. Are you part 91 or 135?Have you ever used APG. Calculated engine out performance. We use it out of KASE, KEGE, and KRIL.

Oh not this crap. I understood what he meant. He's AF.

[Gas Can]

Just looking them up on ebay, if you get into the 1960's-70's models you can get them from 8k-15k. Seems like the technology would need (or would be nice to have) an upgrade.

If you are over 5-9 and weigh more than 180lbs you are not going to be comfortable in a 150

[FaytownHog]

If you are over 5-9 and weigh more than 180lbs you are not going to be comfortable in a 150

yyyyyeeeeeaaaaaaaa. Might have to upgrade or fly with a leg out the window or something! lol. If I invested in a plane it would at least be a 4 seater or it'd be a waist of money to me.

[Brownstreak]

Climb gradient is both engines turning not one inop. Are you part 91 or 135?Have you ever used APG. Calculated engine out performance. We use it out of KASE, KEGE, and KRIL.

This is the climb gradient requirement for aircraft used in 121 ops.
FAR 121.189:
(2) In the case of an airplane certificated after September 30, 1958 (SR 422A, 422B), that allows a net takeoff flight path that clears all obstacles either by a height of at least 35 feet vertically, or by at least 200 feet horizontally within the airport boundaries and by at least 300 feet horizontally after passing the boundaries.

My understanding is that the AF operates closer to Part 121 standards than anything else.

Here's a great article about safety and performance.  Page 30 has a good explaination on engine inop requirements and second segment climb.

http://flightsafety.org/asw/july07/asw_july07_p26-32.pdf

I fly for a cargo outfit that's rather large, so we have dispatchers and loaders that figure all this stuff out for us.  Honestly, all I do is look at our weight, outside temperature, and altitude.  If it all matches up on the sheet of paper vs the FMC, then we're good to go.  I'd probably kill myself if I got into a GA aircraft and had to do public math.

[MDH]

yyyyyeeeeeaaaaaaaa. Might have to upgrade or fly with a leg out the window or something! lol. If I invested in a plane it would at least be a 4 seater or it'd be a waist of money to me.

I have a total of 1 hour in a 150, well 152.  I went through solo up to about 20 hours in a 182 with a partial STOL, then the rest of the way through the private checkride in various 172s, most of the time in a 1956 172- that was a nice old airplane.  That's also the bird I did my spin training in and unlike any other 172 I flew, it always dropped a wing when you stalled, no matter how centered up the ball was.

How tall are you, freaky tall or average tall?  If you can find a decent one the Beech Musketeer is not a bad old bird that should be somewhere in the 20 to 40 price range.  Was working on one today, actually a fairly nice one (though in desperate need of an avionics upgrade), I'm sure it's not for sale though.  They aren't fast, but they are roomier.  One thing of interest is that they have trailing link landing gear which is odd to see on the smaller aircraft.

Another option is to build one if you have the time and patience.  Kitfox's are nice, but they are taildraggers.  Van's aircraft sells kits for the RV series which are phenomenal.  I helped my dad build a RV-6a and talk about fun to fly, I had a blast in that airplane.  He sold it about 10 years ago, I was sad to see it go.  The one thing about kits though is they always cost more than you initially think they will.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

[Brownstreak]

Here is my bird. This was the day I flew into KAFW for the A&M game last year.

That's a nice bird and all, but I like the bird in your avatar better!

[FaytownHog]

I have a total of 1 hour in a 150, well 152.  I went through solo up to about 20 hours in a 182 with a partial STOL, then the rest of the way through the private checkride in various 172s, most of the time in a 1956 172- that was a nice old airplane.  That's also the bird I did my spin training in and unlike any other 172 I flew, it always dropped a wing when you stalled, no matter how centered up the ball was.

How tall are you, freaky tall or average tall?  If you can find a decent one the Beech Musketeer is not a bad old bird that should be somewhere in the 20 to 40 price range.  Was working on one today, actually a fairly nice one (though in desperate need of an avionics upgrade), I'm sure it's not for sale though.  They aren't fast, but they are roomier.  One thing of interest is that they have trailing link landing gear which is odd to see on the smaller aircraft.

Another option is to build one if you have the time and patience.  Kitfox's are nice, but they are taildraggers.  Van's aircraft sells kits for the RV series which are phenomenal.  I helped my dad build a RV-6a and talk about fun to fly, I had a blast in that airplane.  He sold it about 10 years ago, I was sad to see it go.  The one thing about kits though is they always cost more than you initially think they will.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

I'm just 5-10, and a little....overweight...lol. 240 currently. Hopefully slimming down. But yea, I'm not immobile fat or anything...lol.

And yea, If I built an airplane from a kit, idk if I'd let my sworn enemies fly it. I use the term fly loosely of course....haha.

[Sooiepride]

Hey TX hog!  I'm a pilot and live in Nacogdoches.  You live anywhere around here?  If you ever have an extra seat to a Hog game, I'll pay the gas and help you fly from the right seat! 

I flew into Drake back in 06 to the Auburn game.  The Drake Field shuttle van will bring you right up to the front of the stadium - really cool.  You'll be amazed how the jam 5000 152s, 172s, etc, into a 100,000 sq ft ramp!!

[El Guapo]

Hey TX hog!  I'm a pilot and live in Nacogdoches.  You live anywhere around here?  If you ever have an extra seat to a Hog game, I'll pay the gas and help you fly from the right seat! 

I flew into Drake back in 06 to the Auburn game.  The Drake Field shuttle van will bring you right up to the front of the stadium - really cool.  You'll be amazed how the jam 5000 152s, 172s, etc, into a 100,000 sq ft ramp!!

I am in Longview, the 172 I was in belongs to LeTourneau aviation. (I have a connection)

I am not planning on making any more fayetteville trips this year, but I will try and follow up if we do some trips next season bro!

[Flying Razorback]

I love flying in to GGG Longview.  Great BBQ joint down the street called Adam's Rib.  I've got the GGG t shirt from KRS Aviation I wear around the house.

Longview has great approach work and the controllers are always real good to me.

It's late but I'll get in to our IFR climb out gradient talk tomorrow.  It's real interesting stuff.

[theFlyingHog]

I love flying in to GGG Longview.  Great BBQ joint down the street called Adam's Rib.  I've got the GGG t shirt from KRS Aviation I wear around the house.

Longview has great approach work and the controllers are always real good to me.

It's late but I'll get in to our IFR climb out gradient talk tomorrow.  It's real interesting stuff.

MTOW and typical mission loads, segment lengths, interesting airports, peculiar approaches.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/1110/00678R16.PDF

[fdx flyer]

Here's my Bonanza.  Still haven't flown to Fayetteville - I don't have lights on the strip I'm based at, so a night return becomes a big hassle (have to stage a car at another airport, etc). 

I'm thinking about flying to Dallas for the A&M game though.  My in-laws are there, so lodging and transportation would be free.  The only problem is I land from a Japan trip at about midnight the night before.  It's about a 14 hour leg.  I'm gonna be a little tired Saturday.

I didn't realize there were so many flying Hogvillians.  It'd be cool to hook up sometime.

Now lets go beat Bama!

[Flying Razorback]

Here's my Bonanza.  Still haven't flown to Fayetteville - I don't have lights on the strip I'm based at, so a night return becomes a big hassle (have to stage a car at another airport, etc). 

I'm thinking about flying to Dallas for the A&M game though.  My in-laws are there, so lodging and transportation would be free.  The only problem is I land from a Japan trip at about midnight the night before.  It's about a 14 hour leg.  I'm gonna be a little tired Saturday.

I didn't realize there were so many flying Hogvillians.  It'd be cool to hook up sometime.

Now lets go beat Bama!

You definitely wouldn't have crew rest to make the flight to Fort Worth...  But if you have family to fly with then it would be worth it. 

AFW is another great place to fly in to.  I love places that are free and loose with their courtesy cars like Drake, AFW, and Longview Texas.  Texarkana is another awesome one to spend some time at.

[Flying Razorback]

There's so many flying Hogvillians maybe we could get them to open up a "Flying Hogs" forum for aviation?...  Just a thought.  It would be a great place to coordinate rides when multiple folks fly in to a game, coordinate fly ins, and just talk flying.  Also a great place for some networking....  I wouldn't mind getting to know you Fed Ex guys a little better for when I get out, ha.

Any mods willing to support this? 

[FaytownHog]

Anyone flying from NWA to Tuscaloosa tomorrow morning?

[Flying Razorback]

Good place for this. 

I found out on Friday, I'm coming back home!  I'm re-training in to the C-130J to fly out of Little Rock!  I'm absolutely stoked!  Nothing like coming back to your home state to fly the newest jet in AMC's inventory!