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Spring football bullet points

Started by Biggus Piggus, April 08, 2015, 09:57:12 am

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TeedupHigh

Hunter Henry is the MAN!  Many of you must have forgotten what he has done for the ARKANSAS RAZORBACKS!  Sounds kinda like the backup QB argument has begun...........at TE!  I will take HH and be very proud to have the others in the wings.

jjdlc

I think the take away on tight end is that we are absolutely loaded there, and we haven't even seen the other 2 yet.  Gives a lot of options for different looks.

 

bennyl08

Quote from: jjdlc on April 08, 2015, 07:53:14 pm
I think the take away on tight end is that we are absolutely loaded there, and we haven't even seen the other 2 yet.  Gives a lot of options for different looks.

Which is very exciting to salivate about.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 07:22:25 pm
I don't disagree but its not "homerism" when it's the truth. Homerism is when fans exaggerate a player's ability without facts. The funny thing about HH is that the Ark fans underestimate his playmaking ability whereas the rest of the SEC and media (not to mention NFL) seems to recognize his playmaking ability. I find it interesting that HH is talked about so critically by Hog fans but he's the only player that an opposing SEC team would spend time focusing on. I remember after  Texas AM game Sumlin saying the "only" player they were concerned about was HH.

I would sure like to read that quote by Sumlin. Have you got a link to that? I have searched for it and can't find it, so if you have it, I'd sure appreciate you sharing it with us.
Go Hogs Go!

Hog N Bama

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
So Henry is two time All SEC but now suddenly Sprinkle is better and will have more impact next year? A guy just writes an article a month ago naming Henry the SEC Toughest Matchup (the SEC!) but somehow Sprinkle or Gragg is going to takeover for Henry and be the #1 guy. What has Sprinkle done? He's been up there three years and I have not seen anything. I watched him get blown up blocking and drop quite a few key passes just last year. On the key 4th down play at A&M it was Sprinkle's man who made the tackle and we lost the game. HH is a gamer. He started as a true freshman and beat out a senior (Tate). Last year at Miss State he single handily kept us in the game. Last year every single team keyed on him and he still made plays. And that's why the NFL already has him as one of the highest rated TEs in the country as a junior but according to Hogville we need to wait until spring is over to see who the #1 TE is.
I agree. Sprinkle sure looks the part, but I gotta see it before I buy in.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 08, 2015, 08:02:14 pm
I would sure like to read that quote by Sumlin. Have you got a link to that? I have searched for it and can't find it, so if you have it, I'd sure appreciate you sharing it with us.

No link, but that's pretty much what Sumlin said, that "HH was the only receiving threat they were worried about".
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Hawgzinbowlz

When the game is on the line, I want HH on the field.

Adam has grown as a kicker and I think he will be solid, within his range.

Hoping Blake Johnson can get it done in the punting game.

" GO HOGS "

razorbacksnum1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 08, 2015, 08:02:14 pm
I would sure like to read that quote by Sumlin. Have you got a link to that? I have searched for it and can't find it, so if you have it, I'd sure appreciate you sharing it with us.
It was a quote in the post game of the A&M game. Sumlin said HH was ghe player we knew we needed to shut down.

CHELLO300

Will we ever see 5 TEs on the field at same time?

OneTuskOverTheLine™

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on April 08, 2015, 09:57:12 am

  • Who thought we might see the day when Hunter Henry is fighting for playing time? Right now, the base set would be one back with two tight ends, Henry and Jeremy Sprinkle. Let's watch the rest of spring and evaluate whether Henry is the best receiver among the TEs. He's not the best blocker, and Sprinkle is really making a move as a playmaker. To get run blocking and pass protection right, Arkansas might need a blocking specialist to go with the receiving TE. Also, if the Hogs get comfortable with a fullback, the base set could shift back to one TE.

I for one played with one of the "Sprinkle Boyz" at White Hall... I was not surprised. Cedric and Sherman were beasts that could have played for the Hog's at ANY time. They are just Uncles I suppose, cause Jeremy looks more like Cedric and Sherman's daddy than he looks like Billy, his own daddy...
Quote from: capehog on March 12, 2010...
My ex wife had a pet monkey I used to play with. That was one of the few things I liked about her

quote from: golf2day on June 19, 2014....
I'm disgusted, but kinda excited. Now I'm disgusted that I'm excited.

Kevin

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

smb

All good points. Excited counting the days until the first game.
GeorgiaHOG

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 09:25:05 pm
It was a quote in the post game of the A&M game. Sumlin said HH was ghe player we knew we needed to shut down.

I found the post game presser for Sumlin. Never heard him say anything about HH (maybe he did and I missed it) but I do know that at about the 7:25 mark he said the that the difference in our team was the production of Brandon Allen and he mentions what a great running team that we are.

Here's the link to that.

Sumlin Arkansas Post Game Presser


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7r_xgdJp6w
Go Hogs Go!

 

Peter Porker

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
So Henry is two time All SEC but now suddenly Sprinkle is better and will have more impact next year? A guy just writes an article a month ago naming Henry the SEC Toughest Matchup (the SEC!) but somehow Sprinkle or Gragg is going to takeover for Henry and be the #1 guy. What has Sprinkle done? He's been up there three years and I have not seen anything. I watched him get blown up blocking and drop quite a few key passes just last year. On the key 4th down play at A&M it was Sprinkle's man who made the tackle and we lost the game. HH is a gamer. He started as a true freshman and beat out a senior (Tate). Last year at Miss State he single handily kept us in the game. Last year every single team keyed on him and he still made plays. And that's why the NFL already has him as one of the highest rated TEs in the country as a junior but according to Hogville we need to wait until spring is over to see who the #1 TE is.

My thinking as well. Watch the 4th down TD vs Ole Miss and Sprinkle doesn't even touch his guy. Sprinkle can run and catch, but to me hes just a big wide receiver with limited blocking ability. Hunter Henry is the best TE we have and will be the best TE Arkansas has ever had.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Peter Porker on April 09, 2015, 06:05:33 am
My thinking as well. Watch the 4th down TD vs Ole Miss and Sprinkle doesn't even touch his guy. Sprinkle can run and catch, but to me hes just a big wide receiver with limited blocking ability. Hunter Henry is the best TE we have and will be the best TE Arkansas has ever had.

Henry is a really good player and I am glad that we have him. He may wind up being the best TE to ever play at Arkansas, that story isn't written yet. I'm just glad that we have a lot of talent at TE and that they are all improving and pushing each other to get better. Competition will do that. Every one of these kids can improve in some area of their game and I think if we had a chance to talk to them about this, that is what they would say as well.
Go Hogs Go!

razorbacksnum1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 05:47:26 am
I found the post game presser for Sumlin. Never heard him say anything about HH (maybe he did and I missed it) but I do know that at about the 7:25 mark he said the that the difference in our team was the production of Brandon Allen and he mentions what a great running team that we are.

Here's the link to that.

Sumlin Arkansas Post Game Presser


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7r_xgdJp6w
Coaches do lots of interviews after the game. I was driving back to my hotel after the game  listening to Texas radio and Sumlin was being interviewed about the game. It was a radio interview at one point he said something like "the one player that we knew we needed to control was HH, he is the player that makes their offense go"

ballhogger

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
So Henry is two time All SEC but now suddenly Sprinkle is better and will have more impact next year? A guy just writes an article a month ago naming Henry the SEC Toughest Matchup (the SEC!) but somehow Sprinkle or Gragg is going to takeover for Henry and be the #1 guy. What has Sprinkle done? He's been up there three years and I have not seen anything. I watched him get blown up blocking and drop quite a few key passes just last year. On the key 4th down play at A&M it was Sprinkle's man who made the tackle and we lost the game. HH is a gamer. He started as a true freshman and beat out a senior (Tate). Last year at Miss State he single handily kept us in the game. Last year every single team keyed on him and he still made plays. And that's why the NFL already has him as one of the highest rated TEs in the country as a junior but according to Hogville we need to wait until spring is over to see who the #1 TE is.
First of all, I am not downing Hunter at all, but he is no angel.  I  do think he will be the toughest TE to deal with in the SEC especially with it being in his third year.  I do also know of several times that he missed key blocks and did not protect in the passing game as well.  The point that I am making is most players make mistakes at this level because they are also playing against some really good competition.  If coach Enos is very high on Sprinkle that is good for all Hog fans because that means we not only have one but two top flight tight ends and the opposing Defense cannot key on Hunter.  I don't know why we sit around and debate over who is this and that when they play on the same team.  It is nothing but a plus in my eyes.

Biggus Piggus

It's like nothing at all could have happened since last September. Weird.
[CENSORED]!

carolinahogger

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on April 08, 2015, 10:44:39 am
Definitely needed to redshirt but had to play because of the sorry condition the WR corps was in at the time.

+1 for using corps instead of core or corp.

Oklahawg

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on April 09, 2015, 08:49:51 am
It's like nothing at all could have happened since last September. Weird.

And, as Hog fans, we have witnessed players coming from "nowhere", going from workmanlike contributor to star.

Gosh, what if our known high-end TE (Henry) now has a worthy companion (Sprinkle) of now-similar ability but the skill sets are different?

Gosh, we have a new OC - what if we have new looks that suddenly make Sprinkle look better than he was able to look last year?

I think we both recognize some odd posting in the thread. *Shock*

Really like the OP, Biggus.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Oklahawg

There is an interesting understory developing up front on both sides of the ball.

The diversity of skills is such that we are mixing and matching again, trying out a player here or there, (crafting 3 DE sets, for example) to get the best combination on the field. But, more importantly, to generate ideas for when we need them in the fall. They aren't waiting until game week vs X opponent to try and solve things with a tactical change in the lineup - that is happening now. Refreshing coaching vision, but also exciting that the talent is there to make it happen.

Really curious to see what a Pittman line looks like once there is a legit 2-deep. How will he work in subs or give "breathers"?

I am counting 4 DTs and 6 DEs getting mentioned this spring? That is outrageous depth for Arkansas football.

Johnson, Froholdt, Jackson, Ledbetter ... where is Hodge? Where is Watts? Will Marks be able to contribute?

Wise, Winston, Beanum, Loewen (hurt this spring), Hall, Ledbetter again...am I missing someone? Has Lewis gotten a mention or is he the other one hurt? Am I imagining two injuries at DE?
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

Piggfoot

I think the key to Depth in Razorback football with CBB  compared to CHN and CBP is the players that CBB is recruiting are " Uncommon" young men who are staying with the program. Previous coaches always had decent recruiting classes on paper but the attrition rate was horrible.
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

thebignasty

Sprinkle was wrecking dudes on special teams toward the end of the year last year. Maybe the light came on. Would be great to add a weapon in him.

nwahogfan1

All good points Biggus.  A lot of optimism going forward.  Recruiting is the key.  I don't think we can out recruit many of the SEC schools so we need to get really good players and coach them up.

We have not gotten 5 star players at all positions but we have many really good FB players so with excellent coaching, getting them in the right alignments and play calling then the offense as a whole can play like a 5 star offense.


 

Biggus Piggus

Quote from: Oklahawg on April 09, 2015, 09:37:59 am
Johnson, Froholdt, Jackson, Ledbetter ... where is Hodge? Where is Watts? Will Marks be able to contribute?

Wise, Winston, Beanum, Loewen (hurt this spring), Hall, Ledbetter again...am I missing someone? Has Lewis gotten a mention or is he the other one hurt? Am I imagining two injuries at DE?

They are taking it easy on Lewis to make sure he gets 100%. Not practicing.

Beanum and Wise are running very close at the strongside end. With the suspension of Anthony Brown, the Hogs need an impact player behind Winston. That's probably going to end up being Ledbetter. When Lewis returns, he will be on the other side.

At DT there's Johnson and Froholdt, and at NG there's Jackson and Hodge. Ledbetter can play inside too, but the coaches want to make sure they find the best way to get him into the Dline rotation.

Watts - nothing wrong with him - developing fine at DT. Still young. One injury away.
[CENSORED]!

Chief Mac

Quote from: Oklahawg on April 09, 2015, 09:37:59 am

I am counting 4 DTs and 6 DEs getting mentioned this spring? That is outrageous depth for Arkansas football.



This type of quality DL depth is definitely unknown in Arkansas football for at least two decades.  I'm surprised its not talked about more
"We spend two hundred and fifty billion dollars a year on defense and here we are....the fate of the planet in the hands of a bunch of retards I wouldn't trust with a potato gun!

ChitownHawg

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 09, 2015, 07:34:32 am
It was a radio interview at one point he said something like "the one player that we knew we needed to control was HH, he is the player that makes their offense go"

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 07:22:25 pm
I remember after  Texas AM game Sumlin saying the "only" player they were concerned about was HH.

Those two statements are different. Which was it - "he makes the offense go" or "he is the only player we are concerned about"?
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

Klamath River Hog: " Is your spell check made in India?"

hawginbigd1

The irrational need to bash Sprinkle to justify their irrational attachment to HH. Defective personalities, same people who run tell the boss what other people are doing thinking it makes them look better instead of just standing behind their own performance.

For me a good way to compare the two in their potential in the passing game, HH is Witten and Sprinkle is Gates, they are both great but they do it in entirely different ways. Others disagree, but I believe Sprinkle is the better blocker by a decent bit so far. seems we run behind him more than we do HH, I would think there would be a reason for that.

ricepig

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on April 09, 2015, 01:06:54 pm
The irrational need to bash Sprinkle to justify their irrational attachment to HH. Defective personalities, same people who run tell the boss what other people are doing thinking it makes them look better instead of just standing behind their own performance.

For me a good way to compare the two in their potential in the passing game, HH is Witten and Sprinkle is Gates, they are both great but they do it in entirely different ways. Others disagree, but I believe Sprinkle is the better blocker by a decent bit so far. seems we run behind him more than we do HH, I would think there would be a reason for that.

I don't think there was any effort to run behind one over the other. I actually thought they ran more behind AJ, haha.

justmaybe

Sprinkle may be a better athlete but the difference is that HH has really soft  hands and is much more adept at the nuances of usng his body and positioning to catch the ball, he can catch the ball in traffic at the extreme reach of his hands which is almost a born-with trait rather than a learned skill

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
So Henry is two time All SEC but now suddenly Sprinkle is better and will have more impact next year? A guy just writes an article a month ago naming Henry the SEC Toughest Matchup (the SEC!) but somehow Sprinkle or Gragg is going to takeover for Henry and be the #1 guy. What has Sprinkle done? He's been up there three years and I have not seen anything. I watched him get blown up blocking and drop quite a few key passes just last year. On the key 4th down play at A&M it was Sprinkle's man who made the tackle and we lost the game. HH is a gamer. He started as a true freshman and beat out a senior (Tate). Last year at Miss State he single handily kept us in the game. Last year every single team keyed on him and he still made plays. And that's why the NFL already has him as one of the highest rated TEs in the country as a junior but according to Hogville we need to wait until spring is over to see who the #1 TE is.

That may be a bit of an over reaction. I don't think that anyone thinks that Hunter Henry isn't the #1 TE among all TE's. Due to what he has accomplished so far on the basis of his receiving, I'm sure that he is in the minds of the folks who count, the staff.

On the other hand, I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone saying that Sprinkle has perhaps improved to the point that he is really giving Hunter some competition this Spring. Do we prefer to have a guy who was a Honorable Mention All SEC TE in 2014 resting on his laurels, or continuing to get better not only because he has the desire to do so, but also because someone behind him has improved and is now perhaps pressuring him?

I like the fact that there is competition, it is good for everyone and for the team. Will Gragg find a way into a two deep, two TE Set rotation? We will see, it is still way too early to say, but he has potential. What he doesn't have is the valuable experience of playing at a high level of competition that is found only by being on the field that Henry, Sprinkle and Voelzke already possess. That doesn't mean that if his talent alone puts him in a position to play, that he won't.

What we don't have and haven't had is the total TE, who blocks as well as he runs patterns, gets open and secures catches. We have had great blocking TE's that weren't as much of a receiving threat and we have had TE's who were tremendous receiving threats but who didn't always block as well as they should.

My hope is that we are about to finally see the guys who play this position evolve into more of that total TE package. No one is going to be perfect in either one, but Henry would benefit in his receiving by simply having another TE or FB on the field, along with better WR's, that prevent other teams from focusing on him when he goes out in a pattern.

I don't think anyone doubts who is currently the #1 TE and it is Hunter Henry's to lose. I doubt that he will, but the competition makes everyone better, so this is a good thing.
Go Hogs Go!

lumphog

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on April 09, 2015, 08:49:51 am
It's like nothing at all could have happened since last September. Weird.
You're sharp as a tack......+1

LZH


bennyl08

QuoteWhat we don't have and haven't had is the total TE, who blocks as well as he runs patterns, gets open and secures catches.

I mean, arguably Gronk is the only TE who can do that, or at least if you want the player to be good at all of that. I am probably equally good at blocking and receiving, just equally terrible. In general, one is going to find somebody who is great at one and solid enough at the other. I.e. somebody who can drive blocks 10 yards downfield and pancake the guy as well as catch the ball and maybe outmuscle the defender for it, but probably isn't ever going to get much yac, or a guy who is impossible to cover and can get the ball, get open, break tackles, and get yac, but also hold their own at the los for at least a few seconds but probably won't be driving people back, getting pancakes, or holding blocks for more than 4 seconds.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: bennyl08 on April 09, 2015, 07:26:28 pm
I mean, arguably Gronk is the only TE who can do that, or at least if you want the player to be good at all of that. I am probably equally good at blocking and receiving, just equally terrible. In general, one is going to find somebody who is great at one and solid enough at the other. I.e. somebody who can drive blocks 10 yards downfield and pancake the guy as well as catch the ball and maybe outmuscle the defender for it, but probably isn't ever going to get much yac, or a guy who is impossible to cover and can get the ball, get open, break tackles, and get yac, but also hold their own at the los for at least a few seconds but probably won't be driving people back, getting pancakes, or holding blocks for more than 4 seconds.

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 04:20:59 pm
What we don't have and haven't had is the total TE, who blocks as well as he runs patterns, gets open and secures catches. We have had great blocking TE's that weren't as much of a receiving threat and we have had TE's who were tremendous receiving threats but who didn't always block as well as they should.

My hope is that we are about to finally see the guys who play this position evolve into more of that total TE package. No one is going to be perfect in either one, but Henry would benefit in his receiving by simply having another TE or FB on the field, along with better WR's, that prevent other teams from focusing on him when he goes out in a pattern.

You have this tendency to only quote that which fits the point you want to make, instead of quoting the entire statement. It takes on a different meaning when context is included.

And while very good, Gronkowski hasn't re-written the book about being a total TE.

Additionally, one doesn't need to be able to drive block someone downfield 10 yards and pancake their man to be a very good blocking TE. But overstatement does tend to be your friend.
Go Hogs Go!

bennyl08

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 07:31:55 pm
You have this tendency to only quote that which fits the point you want to make, instead of quoting the entire statement. It takes on a different meaning when context is included.

And while very good, Gronkowski hasn't re-written the book about being a total TE.

Additionally, one doesn't need to be able to drive block someone downfield 10 yards and pancake their man to be a very good blocking TE. But overstatement does tend to be your friend.

I selected part of it because it was a long post and I didn't want to take up so much room. Sort of a jumping off point that somebody could go back to your post and reference. Obviously I didn't take your statement to mean you expect them to be perfect at both. Though I do think there is valid debate as to the threshold for being good at both is.

IMO opinion, HH reaches the threshold in both categories. I'd say he is at least a B+ in terms of strength, speed, blocking, catching, and route running. Others seem to put his blocking more around a C+/B-. A+ in blocking would be the type of TE who could also play tackle, A+ in speed for a TE would be sub 4.5 forty, etc... Your post was a bit vague what you considered a total TE. You mention he is as good as this as he is as that and he doesn't have to be perfect in either is all I had to go off of. I use the NFL examples because people tend to be more familiar with a wide range of players in the NFL vs college. Not meaning to say that you think we need to have players of that caliber, just easier to make comparisons and such. And while Gronk hasn't written the book yet, he is by far the best TE who can do every listed above at an A level by NFL standards (I.e. B+ blocking in college does not equal B+ blocking in the NFL, I'm using a relative grading scale vs an absolute).

Would it be safe to say you consider Jason Witten a total TE? He isn't very fast, but he gets open, makes catches, and blocks well. IMO, he is sort of the cutoff of total TE's and there aren't that many above him in the NFL. Again, Witten would be an elite TE in college, but translate his abilities relative to the NFL down to the college level is what I'm projecting your views of a total TE to be.

Yes, that was overstatement and I tried to make it obvious as such. I was not trying to provide a realistic expectation of what a great blocking TE had to demonstrate.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: bennyl08 on April 09, 2015, 08:19:11 pm
I selected part of it because it was a long post and I didn't want to take up so much room. Sort of a jumping off point that somebody could go back to your post and reference. Obviously I didn't take your statement to mean you expect them to be perfect at both. Though I do think there is valid debate as to the threshold for being good at both is.

IMO opinion, HH reaches the threshold in both categories. I'd say he is at least a B+ in terms of strength, speed, blocking, catching, and route running. Others seem to put his blocking more around a C+/B-. A+ in blocking would be the type of TE who could also play tackle, A+ in speed for a TE would be sub 4.5 forty, etc... Your post was a bit vague what you considered a total TE. You mention he is as good as this as he is as that and he doesn't have to be perfect in either is all I had to go off of. I use the NFL examples because people tend to be more familiar with a wide range of players in the NFL vs college. Not meaning to say that you think we need to have players of that caliber, just easier to make comparisons and such. And while Gronk hasn't written the book yet, he is by far the best TE who can do every listed above at an A level by NFL standards (I.e. B+ blocking in college does not equal B+ blocking in the NFL, I'm using a relative grading scale vs an absolute).

Would it be safe to say you consider Jason Witten a total TE? He isn't very fast, but he gets open, makes catches, and blocks well. IMO, he is sort of the cutoff of total TE's and there aren't that many above him in the NFL. Again, Witten would be an elite TE in college, but translate his abilities relative to the NFL down to the college level is what I'm projecting your views of a total TE to be.

Yes, that was overstatement and I tried to make it obvious as such. I was not trying to provide a realistic expectation of what a great blocking TE had to demonstrate.

Nothing vague about it, as I said, someone who is as very good at receiving as he is at blocking. Not sure how that is vague in any way.
Go Hogs Go!

bennyl08

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 08:45:57 pm
Nothing vague about it, as I said, someone who is as very good at receiving as he is at blocking. Not sure how that is vague in any way.

What you said above, you did not communicate below. (fully quoted so as to please you).

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 04:20:59 pm
That may be a bit of an over reaction. I don't think that anyone thinks that Hunter Henry isn't the #1 TE among all TE's. Due to what he has accomplished so far on the basis of his receiving, I'm sure that he is in the minds of the folks who count, the staff.

On the other hand, I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone saying that Sprinkle has perhaps improved to the point that he is really giving Hunter some competition this Spring. Do we prefer to have a guy who was a Honorable Mention All SEC TE in 2014 resting on his laurels, or continuing to get better not only because he has the desire to do so, but also because someone behind him has improved and is now perhaps pressuring him?

I like the fact that there is competition, it is good for everyone and for the team. Will Gragg find a way into a two deep, two TE Set rotation? We will see, it is still way too early to say, but he has potential. What he doesn't have is the valuable experience of playing at a high level of competition that is found only by being on the field that Henry, Sprinkle and Voelzke already possess. That doesn't mean that if his talent alone puts him in a position to play, that he won't.

What we don't have and haven't had is the total TE, who blocks as well as he runs patterns, gets open and secures catches. We have had great blocking TE's that weren't as much of a receiving threat and we have had TE's who were tremendous receiving threats but who didn't always block as well as they should.

My hope is that we are about to finally see the guys who play this position evolve into more of that total TE package. No one is going to be perfect in either one, but Henry would benefit in his receiving by simply having another TE or FB on the field, along with better WR's, that prevent other teams from focusing on him when he goes out in a pattern.

I don't think anyone doubts who is currently the #1 TE and it is Hunter Henry's to lose. I doubt that he will, but the competition makes everyone better, so this is a good thing.

I mean, I agree with almost everything that you say here. The only caveat being I either have a lower threshold than you for what makes somebody a total player or I think Henry is a better blocker than you do. I guess technically I would say Henry is a balanced TE more than the total package given that I would only rate his blocking a B+. Whereas Todd Gurley was the total package at RB given that he is a solid A at every facet of the position, speed, agility, strength, vision, pass catching, pass blocking, patience, burst, etc... Chubb has a higher speed/power combo than Gurley, but isn't as well polished.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

supersaint

There's no sense in nonsense when the heat is hot.

Deep Shoat

All Gas, No Brakes!

razorbacksnum1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 09, 2015, 04:20:59 pm
That may be a bit of an over reaction. I don't think that anyone thinks that Hunter Henry isn't the #1 TE among all TE's. Due to what he has accomplished so far on the basis of his receiving, I'm sure that he is in the minds of the folks who count, the staff.

On the other hand, I don't think that there is anything wrong with someone saying that Sprinkle has perhaps improved to the point that he is really giving Hunter some competition this Spring. Do we prefer to have a guy who was a Honorable Mention All SEC TE in 2014 resting on his laurels, or continuing to get better not only because he has the desire to do so, but also because someone behind him has improved and is now perhaps pressuring him?

I like the fact that there is competition, it is good for everyone and for the team. Will Gragg find a way into a two deep, two TE Set rotation? We will see, it is still way too early to say, but he has potential. What he doesn't have is the valuable experience of playing at a high level of competition that is found only by being on the field that Henry, Sprinkle and Voelzke already possess. That doesn't mean that if his talent alone puts him in a position to play, that he won't.

What we don't have and haven't had is the total TE, who blocks as well as he runs patterns, gets open and secures catches. We have had great blocking TE's that weren't as much of a receiving threat and we have had TE's who were tremendous receiving threats but who didn't always block as well as they should.

My hope is that we are about to finally see the guys who play this position evolve into more of that total TE package. No one is going to be perfect in either one, but Henry would benefit in his receiving by simply having another TE or FB on the field, along with better WR's, that prevent other teams from focusing on him when he goes out in a pattern.

I don't think anyone doubts who is currently the #1 TE and it is Hunter Henry's to lose. I doubt that he will, but the competition makes everyone better, so this is a good thing.
Just to correct you HH was 2nd Team All Sec (Coaches) and is the only two time All SEC player currently on the roster. Competition is good for every player. My quote had nothing to do with competition it had to do with the idea that Sprinkle is better than Henry which I think is ridiculous.

razorback44

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on April 09, 2015, 01:06:54 pm
The irrational need to bash Sprinkle to justify their irrational attachment to HH. Defective personalities, same people who run tell the boss what other people are doing thinking it makes them look better instead of just standing behind their own performance.

For me a good way to compare the two in their potential in the passing game, HH is Witten and Sprinkle is Gates, they are both great but they do it in entirely different ways. Others disagree, but I believe Sprinkle is the better blocker by a decent bit so far. seems we run behind him more than we do HH, I would think there would be a reason for that.

Sprinkle didn't even play regularly on offense this past season so I'm not really sure how you can surmise that we ran more behind him than Henry.
"No force and no man can abolish memory"  FDR

razorbacksnum1

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on April 09, 2015, 01:06:54 pm
The irrational need to bash Sprinkle to justify their irrational attachment to HH. Defective personalities, same people who run tell the boss what other people are doing thinking it makes them look better instead of just standing behind their own performance.

For me a good way to compare the two in their potential in the passing game, HH is Witten and Sprinkle is Gates, they are both great but they do it in entirely different ways. Others disagree, but I believe Sprinkle is the better blocker by a decent bit so far. seems we run behind him more than we do HH, I would think there would be a reason for that.
Did you watch the Hog games last year? Sprinkle didn't even play last year. Its hard to run behind a player that is on the bench.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 10, 2015, 08:13:35 am
Did you watch the Hog games last year? Sprinkle didn't even play last year. Its hard to run behind a player that is on the bench.

According to the NCAA he played in all 13 games last year and had 7 receptions for 84 yards and 1 TD with an average reception of 12 yards. Now how many plays did he play on average per game? That is another question.
Go Hogs Go!

ricepig

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on April 10, 2015, 08:37:15 am
According to the NCAA he played in all 13 games last year and had 7 receptions for 84 yards and 1 TD with an average reception of 12 yards. Now how many plays did he play on average per game? That is another question.

Yeah, I guess we just used 1 TE when Derby was hurt.......

Pig In The City

Quote from: The_Iceman on April 08, 2015, 11:08:28 am
The one thing you can't take away from Hunter Henry is you know when the lights come on, and a big play/catch is needed, he will deliver. The guy is a gamer.

He needs to improve in his blocking to be a complete ready for the NFL TE

Arkansas WR

Quote from: razorbacksnum1 on April 08, 2015, 02:52:55 pm
So Henry is two time All SEC but now suddenly Sprinkle is better and will have more impact next year? A guy just writes an article a month ago naming Henry the SEC Toughest Matchup (the SEC!) but somehow Sprinkle or Gragg is going to takeover for Henry and be the #1 guy. What has Sprinkle done? He's been up there three years and I have not seen anything. I watched him get blown up blocking and drop quite a few key passes just last year. On the key 4th down play at A&M it was Sprinkle's man who made the tackle and we lost the game. HH is a gamer. He started as a true freshman and beat out a senior (Tate). Last year at Miss State he single handily kept us in the game. Last year every single team keyed on him and he still made plays. And that's why the NFL already has him as one of the highest rated TEs in the country as a junior but according to Hogville we need to wait until spring is over to see who the #1 TE is.
Exactly what i was thinking while reading all of this. I like the optimism about Sprinkle, but Henry is a beast. You can't downplay the impact he has had on this team.

jcarney12747

Laughable. Hunter Henry is the best TE on the team and it's not close. I'm trying to get Gragg on the field.

jcarney12747

Quote from: Pig In The City on April 10, 2015, 08:42:09 am
He needs to improve in his blocking to be a complete ready for the NFL TE
There's a ton of NFL Tight ends that can't block. Julius Thomas, Jimmy Graham. Henry will never be a great blocker. Just needs to be a serviceable blocker.

gmarv

Quote from: Piggfoot on April 09, 2015, 09:44:16 am
I think the key to Depth in Razorback football with CBB  compared to CHN and CBP is the players that CBB is recruiting are " Uncommon" young men who are staying with the program. Previous coaches always had decent recruiting classes on paper but the attrition rate was horrible.
I think this is a huge point,when ranking recruiting classes.in the end don,t matter how high your ranked if half don,t ever play for you.