3 years ago today...

[hogcard1964]

Steef, and your point is? All that has been said is CBP's record shows he was closer to an NC than we currently are.

That has nothing to do with the job that CBB is doing. Nor any indication of the heights that CBB will take us.

It simply is a statement that CBP took this program to a level that his predecessor couldn't. Not sure why some of you then turn the discussion into CBB is the better coach. I have not read a response saying that CBP was the better coach.

It is simply the question from the OP is poor. He asked us to compare four years against two. If we do then CBP took us higher. CBP was a jerk, but we can still enjoy the history of going to the Sugar Bowl and Cotton Bowl. Ending one season as #5 and being considered as a dark horse for the NC by the national talking heads.

Not sure how some of you (Steef you were not alone in this) want to poo poo on that. Crap on CBP as a man, but not our Hog's record. We were good - a little unbalanced in that our defense was always weak. But being a top 10 team is good for us.

I will end with this. I have always said without CBP's success here I'm not sure CBB would have come to Arkansas. CBP showed you can build a winner here. Now we have a coach who can build a winner and build these young boys into good men.

Great post

[Steef]

Bobby's psyche is germane to the topic of the thread.

Closer? If falling short can be measured, then Bobby was closer.

If potential is what we're measuring, then Bobby proved conclusively he wasn't gonna reach the promised land. In that vein, his character flaws are as germane as his coaching ability.

You are correct that the basic premuse of the OP has a lot of hypothetical built in.

But its the off season.

And no one is making anyone post.

I think we're "closer" to a Natty I guess, for the simple reason that Bret has NOT yet proven conclusively....that he can't.

Bobby did.

[thirrdegreetusker]

I have always said without CBP's success here I'm not sure CBB would have come to Arkansas. CBP showed you can build a winner here.

I think UA is, historically, a place where a good coach can get us in the top 10. The majority of HCs in the last 50 years have had us in the top 10 in multiple seasons (JFB, Holtz, Hatfield, HDN, BP).

Maybe the BP era impressed or influenced BB. But so would the DMAc/Felix era, you would think.

[Gonzo]

Bobby's psyche is germane to the topic of the thread.

Closer? If falling short can be measured, then Bobby was closer.

If potential is what we're measuring, then Bobby proved conclusively he wasn't gonna reach the promised land. In that vein, his character flaws are as germane as his coaching ability.

You are correct that the basic premuse of the OP has a lot of hypothetical built in.

But its the off season.

And no one is making anyone post.

I think we're "closer" to a Natty I guess, for the simple reason that Bret has NOT yet proven conclusively....that he can't.

Bobby did.

Anyone who believes they have absolute knowledge of hypothetical futures is deluding themselves, but that doesn't stop many from doing so. BP had no more conclusively proven he would never achieve this or that with the Hogs than he had conclusively proven he would continue to win 10+ games a season year in and year out (as some of your opposite side would allege) because he did the last two seasons he was the Hog HC.  Too bad so many can't simply admit they, like everyone else, don't know what would have happened had the situation played out differently, admit the Hogs had a pretty good coach, admit they have a pretty good one now, and just enjoy the present.


Go Hogs!

[ChitownHawg]

Bobby's psyche is germane to the topic of the thread.

Closer? If falling short can be measured, then Bobby was closer.

If potential is what we're measuring, then Bobby proved conclusively he wasn't gonna reach the promised land. In that vein, his character flaws are as germane as his coaching ability.

You are correct that the basic premuse of the OP has a lot of hypothetical built in.

But its the off season.

And no one is making anyone post.

I think we're "closer" to a Natty I guess, for the simple reason that Bret has NOT yet proven conclusively....that he can't.

Bobby did.

Yep it's the off season and posting this off season is a whole more fun than last year. Funny how many of the antagonists from last year are gone. 

[EastexHawg]

Anyone who believes they have absolute knowledge of hypothetical futures is deluding themselves, but that doesn't stop many from doing so. BP had no more conclusively proven he would never achieve this or that with the Hogs than he had conclusively proven he would continue to win 10+ games a season year in and year out (as some of your opposite side would allege)

Thank you for posting this and saving me the trouble.  How can someone say "Bobby had proven conclusively he wasn't gonna reach the promised land"?  Where is the proof?

We all post opinions.  That's fine...it's what message boards are all about.  But to post something that no one can prove one way or the other and say it has been "conclusively proven"?  Might want to rephrase that one...

[ChitownHawg]

I'm not sure if Bielema came to Arkansas because of what HDN accomplished with a run first game, less than great coaching and lazy recruiting, or whether it was because BP and what he was able to accomplish with good offensive scheming and less than stellar recruiting, or was it also because of what he had seen the University do of late in terms of improved facilities and because he felt that he and Jeff Long would be a good match with each other? Maybe some of all of the above?

I agree, I enjoyed our two really good seasons with trips to higher level bowl games and I am proud of the team for having achieved those things. And, like you, I think we have the right man for the job of building this program into a level of success that is sustainable.

Good points about the facility upgrades and I'm sure Jeff Long was a breath of fresh air compared to his former boss. No matter what happened in Wisconsin his old boss would take some of the credit. For our team CBB can truly say this is a team he built. Jeff ensures he has the money and CBB uses it to construct a first class football program.

Another side note - our major sports seem to all have solid head coaches. And some use to say Jeff Long only cared about Jeff Long.  Seems to me he cares a great deal about winning.  ;

[thirrdegreetusker]

Anyone who believes they have absolute knowledge of hypothetical futures is deluding themselves, but that doesn't stop many from doing so. BP had no more conclusively proven he would never achieve this or that with the Hogs than he had conclusively proven he would continue to win 10+ games a season year in and year out (as some of your opposite side would allege) because he did the last two seasons he was the Hog HC.  Too bad so many can't simply admit they, like everyone else, don't know what would have happened had the situation played out differently, admit the Hogs had a pretty good coach, admit they have a pretty good one now, and just enjoy the present.


Go Hogs!

Schrodinger's cat

[Peter Porker]

How so?

I told you how so. Look at the 2 deeps.

[LZH]

I told you how so. Look at the 2 deeps.

That's what I thought....it tells us little-to-nothing.  Different coaches, different circumstances, different schemes.  Unless you are referring to the JLS-led 2012 team (post-Harleygate), you're just guessing like everyone else.

[Peter Porker]

That's what I thought....it tells us little-to-nothing.  Different coaches, different circumstances, different schemes.  Unless you are referring to the JLS-led 2012 team (post-Harleygate), you're just guessing like everyone else.

I'm referring to the 2 walkons on the left side of the line. I'm referring to the failed of playing Tenarius Wright at middle linebacker. Again, compare the 2-deeps.

[LZH]

I'm referring to the 2 walkons on the left side of the line. I'm referring to the failed of playing Tenarius Wright at middle linebacker. Again, compare the 2-deeps.

There's no way of knowing if Bobby Petrino could have won 9 or 10 games in 2012 with Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Chris Gragg, and Knile Davis in his offense.  Same goes for BB this year....his RB's are certainly capable, but he needs more playmakers.  Point is, coaches are not the same and they don't always get the same results from the same players.  Ex: JLS could have inherited the most talented team in the nation that year and we'd still have fallen flat on out face.

And if you want to get really technical (such as rosters and depth charts)....don't forget that this year's team has to play Bama, Ole Miss, and LSU on the road, whereas in 2012 we had them all at home - that makes a big difference, too.


Add:  I can't argue the finer points of the rosters like you apparently can, fwiw.

[Biggus Piggus]

There's no way of knowing if Bobby Petrino could have won 9 or 10 games in 2012 with Tyler Wilson, Cobi Hamilton, Chris Gragg, and Knile Davis in his offense.  Same goes for BB this year....his RB's are certainly capable, but he needs more playmakers.  Point is, coaches are not the same and they don't always get the same results from the same players.  Ex: JLS could have inherited the most talented team in the nation that year and we'd still have fallen flat on out face.

And if you want to get really technical (such as rosters and depth charts)....don't forget that this year's team has to play Bama, Ole Miss, and LSU on the road, whereas in 2012 we had them all at home - that makes a big difference, too.


Add:  I can't argue the finer points of the rosters like you apparently can, fwiw.

Arkansas would have had a good, possibly very good 2012 and a not-so-good 2013. It was predestined. Recruiting in 2009-10 was too thin.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Anyone who believes they have absolute knowledge of hypothetical futures is deluding themselves, but that doesn't stop many from doing so. BP had no more conclusively proven he would never achieve this or that with the Hogs than he had conclusively proven he would continue to win 10+ games a season year in and year out (as some of your opposite side would allege) because he did the last two seasons he was the Hog HC.  Too bad so many can't simply admit they, like everyone else, don't know what would have happened had the situation played out differently, admit the Hogs had a pretty good coach, admit they have a pretty good one now, and just enjoy the present.


Go Hogs!

I'm giving you a +1 and an up yours.. I am the see'r of see'r's, and I say we are closer now and you can just come over to my place and we can drink about it...

[Gonzo]

I'm giving you a +1 and an up yours.. I am the see'r of see'r's, and I say we are closer now and you can just come over to my place and we can drink about it...

Well far be it from me to disagree with the seer of seers, much less if they are offering worthwhile refreshments. I do believe we can all definitively assert the Hogs are closer to their next national title now than they were 3 years ago........or 23 years ago........or anytime since 1965 for that matter.....provided of course they win another one someday


Go Hogs!

[LZH]

Arkansas would have had a good, possibly very good 2012 and a not-so-good 2013. It was predestined. Recruiting in 2009-10 was too thin.

If I remember correctly, at least one (or more) of those classes in that period were ranked fairly high but only a fraction of those kids actually made it to campus, after which several more got run off when practices started.  Why is it that when coaches (especially around here) have some success, instead of ramping up their recruiting efforts and really try to capitalize on a 10-win season or two, they get lazy and seem to disappear?  Holtz, Nutt, and Petrino immediately pop into my head.

As competitive as Petrino was, you'd think he'd be hell-bent on signing the best talent he could get his hands on at any cost - because you know damn well it chapped his ass that he couldn't beat Saban.  He could continue to say that he, Saban, and Miles were friends all he wanted, but I don't believe that for a second.  I guess Miss Blondie Longlegs, combined with his ego and the idea he had that he was bigger than the program, all outweighed any ambition he may have once had to win a championship and make a little history.

Even though BB hit the hill running his mouth, thank God he's since chilled out....and more importantly - I don't see any "I've got it made so I'm gonna sit around and draw my check" in him.

[Peter Porker]

Arkansas would have had a good, possibly very good 2012 and a not-so-good 2013. It was predestined. Recruiting in 2009-10 was too thin.

I disagree. Here's the 2 deep.
OFFENSE

WR

17 Brandon Mitchell (Jr., 6-4, 230)

2 Julian Horton (Jr., 6-1, 194)

4 Keon Hatcher (Fr., 6-2, 205)



WR

11 Cobi Hamilton (Sr., 6-3, 209)

19 Javontee Herndon (Jr., 6-1, 204)



WR

82 Mekale McKay (Fr., 6-6, 190)

81 Demetrius Wilson (Jr., 6-3, 180)

15 Keante Minor (So., 6-0, 205)



TE

80 Chris Gragg (Sr., 6-3, 236)

87 Austin Tate (Jr., 6-6, 253)

46 Alex Voelzke (Fr., 6-6, 220)



OT

69 David Hurd (Jr,. 6-6, 300)

70 Chris Stringer (So., 6-7, 304)



OG

76 Tyler Deacon (Sr., 6-4, 300)

75 Luke Charpentier (So., 6-4, 305)



C

64 Travis Swanson (Jr., 6-5, 305)

65 Mitch Smothers (So., 6-4, 296)



OG

67 Alvin Bailey (Jr., 6-5, 312)

75 Luke Charpentier (So., 6-4, 305)



OT

74 Brey Cook (So., 6-7, 308) 71

Jason Peacock (Sr., 6-4, 305)



QB

8 Tyler Wilson (Sr., 6-3, 220)

10 Brandon Allen (Fr., 6-3, 212)



RB

7 Knile Davis (Jr., 6-0, 226) 33

Dennis Johnson (Sr., 5-9, 213)

OR

20 Ronnie Wingo Jr. (Sr., 6-3, 231)



FB

36 Kiero Small (Sr., 5-10, 255)

40 Kody Walker (Fr., 6-2, 240)



K

18 Zach Hocker (Jr., 6-0, 180)

43 John Henson (So., 5-11, 138)



P

14 Dylan Breeding (Sr., 6-1, 211)

18 Zach Hocker (Jr., 6-0, 180)



SNP

53 Alan D'Appollonio (So., 6-0, 201)

56 Will Coleman (Jr., 6-3, 253)



DEFENSE

DE

86 Trey Flowers (So., 6-4, 243)

41 Austin Flynn (Jr., 6-5, 260)



DT

54 Byran Jones (Jr., 6-2, 312)

51 Alfred Davis (Sr., 6-1, 318)

57 Jared Green (Sr., 6-0, 315)



DT

92 DeQuinta Jones (Sr., 6-5, 299)

98 Robert Thomas (Jr., 6-3, 308)



DE

42 Chris Smith (Jr., 6-3, 251)

90 Colton Miles-Nash (Sr., 6-6, 261)



OLB

39 Jarrett Lake (Jr., 6-3, 223)

24 Daunte Carr (So., 6-3, 224)



MLB

43 Tenarius Wright (Sr., 6-2, 252)

36 Kiero Small (Sr., 5-10, 255)



OLB

45 Alonzo Highsmith (Sr., 6-1, 233)

25 Terrell Williams (Sr., 6-3, 232)



CB

8 Tevin Mitchel (So., 6-0, 192)

13 Davyon McKinney (Fr., 6-3, 190)

9 Will Hines (Fr., 6-1, 185)



S

35 Ross Rasner (Sr., 6-0, 212)

27 Alan Turner (So., 6-0, 212)



S

14 Eric Bennett (Jr., 6-0, 206)

26 Rohan Gaines (Fr., 5-11, 190)



CB

21 Darius Winston (Sr., 6-0, 191)

23 Kaelon Kelleybrew (Sr., 5-11, 180)



SPECIAL TEAMS

H

16 Brian Buehner (So., 5-11, 195)

14 Dylan Breeding (Sr., 6-1, 211)



KOR

33 Dennis Johnson (Sr., 5-9, 213)

22 Nate Holmes (Fr., 6-1, 175)

20 Ronnie Wingo Jr. (Sr., 6-3, 231)



PR

33 Dennis Johnson (Sr., 5-9, 213)

15 Keante Minor (So., 6-0, 205)

[MuskogeeHogFan]

If I remember correctly, at least one (or more) of those classes in that period were ranked fairly high but only a fraction of those kids actually made it to campus, after which several more got run off when practices started.  Why is it that when coaches (especially around here) have some success, instead of ramping up their recruiting efforts and really try to capitalize on a 10-win season or two, they get lazy and seem to disappear?  Holtz, Nutt, and Petrino immediately pop into my head.

As competitive as Petrino was, you'd think he'd be hell-bent on signing the best talent he could get his hands on at any cost - because you know damn well it chapped his ass that he couldn't beat Saban.

Even though BB hit the hill running his mouth, thank God he's since chilled out....and more importantly - I don't see any "I've got it made so I'm gonna sit around and draw my check" in him.

2009:#16 class 32 signees and those who didn't make it or left early.
Neal Barlow-WR, Colby Berna-OL, Shauntez Bruce-OL, Ryan Calendar-DE, Brton Forrester-K, David Gordon-DB, Ricky Hughey-TE, Kevin Lowery-DT, Anthony Oden-OL, Lance Ray-WR, Turell Williams-RB/LB

11 of 32 (34.4%)

2010-#49 class  25 signees and those who didn't make it or left early.
Calvin Barnett-DT, Jatashun Beachem-DT, LaCraig Brown-DT, Cam Feldt-OL, Courtney Gaston-LB, Brad Hefley-LB, Maudrecus Humphrey-WR, Marquel Wade-WR, Jacoby Walker-QB

9 of 25 (36%)

2011: #24 class 32 signees and those who didn't make it or left early.
Horace Arkadie-DE, Robert Atiga-LB, Quinta Funderburk-WR, Tyler Gilbert-LB, Lonnie Gosha-DT, Brock Haman-LB, Andrew Peterson-TE, Jashaud Sims-RB, Brett Weir-DB, Kane Whitehurst-WR

10 of 32 (31.3%)

(And I might have missed some)

And I agree that it is a mystery how a coach could have a successful season and then not work their tails off to capitalize on that in recruiting.