Presidents Cup

[95_alum]

Tiger is currently 28th on the list. If you're Couples, do you move him ahead of the 15 golfers in front of him?

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/prescup.html?140

[Dropkick]

NO

[Golfer59]

I would like to think no, but I think you have to pick him.  Presidents Cup is over two months away still.  He does seem to be healthy now which means more practice time.  I like how Couples said he wants him to play more than just the Australian Open before Pres. Cup.  He definitely is not playing great right now, but the guy has won over 70 times on the PGA Tour and 14 Majors. 

[Hawgndaaz]

President's cup isn't a very big deal. its pretty much golf's version of an exhibition game. If this were the Ryder Cup people would have reason to complain.

[HF#1]

I agree with Freddie, he needs to play more.  I don't select him because he hasn't played.

[Divot]

Freddie will be "encouraged" to pick him for the TV ratings.

[Stang1970]

Freddie will be "encouraged" to pick him for the TV ratings.

My question is do we want ratings or do we want to win?

[kingofdequeen]

you cannot take Eldrick.  he hasn't played much, and when he has played, he's played like stuff.

neg on tiger.

[Hawg414]

My question is do we want ratings or do we want to win?

us the fans?  win.

corporate sponsors?  ratings. 

[Stang1970]

us the fans?  win.

corporate sponsors?  ratings.

I would completely agree with that.  So you as a fan, would you want the captain to choose Tiger.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

tiger isn't very good in a team format, so I say no.  what does he add to help the team?



PP

[Martygit]

you cannot take Eldrick.  he hasn't played much, and when he has played, he's played like stuff.

neg on tiger.

This

[EastexHawg]

There's no way he deserves to be named to the team.  Yes he has been a great player over the years, but he was rewarded for that past greatness by making those past teams.  No one kept choosing Nicklaus for international teams two years after he stopped contending.

[Ex-Trumpet]

http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/6896204/fred-couples-selects-tiger-woods-presidents-cup-team

Looks like Eldrick will be on the team.

[bcook823]

There's no way he deserves to be named to the team.  Yes he has been a great player over the years, but he was rewarded for that past greatness by making those past teams.  No one kept choosing Nicklaus for international teams two years after he stopped contending.

he finished 4th in the masters this year. hasn't played enough this year to say that he "isn't contending"

[95_alum]

Hmmm. That was rather quick considering he had four more weeks to decide.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Hmmm. That was rather quick considering he had four more weeks to decide.

thats what I was thinking, maybe he got some assurances that Tiger will be playing before the Australian Masters.


PP

[95_alum]

Tiger & Phil: Teammates. 

[bcook823]

thats what I was thinking, maybe he got some assurances that Tiger will be playing before the Australian Masters.

Couples comments basically said as much. I agree that he needs to tee it up in competition before Australia.


PP

[mr4pt]

5-0

Take him

[Golfer59]

Steve Stricker is the top ranked American player and he came out and said he wants Tiger on the team.  He seems like a smart guy.

[95_alum]

I wonder if Couples looked all of the following in the eye & told them why they would not be representing the United States of America: Rickie Fowler, Brandt Snedeker, Zach Johnson, Jason Dufner, Ryan Moore, Keegan Bradley, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Byrd, Ryan Palmer, Jeff Overton, Charles Howell III, Steve Marino, Gary Woodland, Sean O'Hair and Kevin Na.

[Hawg414]

I wonder if Couples looked all of the following in the eye & told them why they would not be representing the United States of America: Rickie Fowler, Brandt Snedeker, Zach Johnson, Jason Dufner, Ryan Moore, Keegan Bradley, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Byrd, Ryan Palmer, Jeff Overton, Charles Howell III, Steve Marino, Gary Woodland, Sean O'Hair and Kevin Na.

probably not.  nor did he email any of them pictures of tigers 14 trophies.  of which those 15 players have a combined 2. 

[kingofdequeen]

probably not.  nor did he email any of them pictures of tigers 14 trophies.  of which those 15 players have a combined 2. 

he's not gathering wares to take down to Arkansas Cash for Gold, he's trying to put together a winning team.  i think picking tiger is wasting a spot.

that hurts me to type that. 

[Hawg414]

he's not gathering wares to take down to Arkansas Cash for Gold, he's trying to put together a winning team.  i think picking tiger is wasting a spot.

that hurts me to type that. 

i understand that.  but im amazed at people acting like freddy owes an explanation for picking tiger.

[Ex-Trumpet]

I wonder if Couples looked all of the following in the eye & told them why they would not be representing the United States of America: Rickie Fowler, Brandt Snedeker, Zach Johnson, Jason Dufner, Ryan Moore, Keegan Bradley, Mark Wilson, Jonathan Byrd, Ryan Palmer, Jeff Overton, Charles Howell III, Steve Marino, Gary Woodland, Sean O'Hair and Kevin Na.

Not sure Eldrick (he'll be Tiger to me again when he earns it!) deserves to be on the team, but I'd still take him over any of these guys if it were my choice, too.  Tiger on a bad day can still beat anyone in the world, if they let him get into their heads!

[EastexHawg]

i understand that.  but im amazed at people acting like freddy owes an explanation for picking tiger.

No explanation needed.  Couples is a gutless sellout.

As for Tiger being named to the team because he finished 4th (when he choked on the back nine Sunday) at the Masters...Nicklaus wasn't picked for the Ryder Cup because he finished 6th at the Masters in 1998.  And he has 18 trophies he could photograph and email...

Tiger was named to every international team there was as a "reward" for all the tournaments he won and points he accumulated.  Current players deserve the same. 

A guy whose best finish since the last President's Cup is a tie for 4th, and whose OWGR has dropped over 30 places since then, doesn't deserve to be on the team.  End of story.

[reeser]

You guys crack me up, when all you guys become President Cup captains you can pick whichever 2 players you want...Tiger got the nod because Boom Boom is his boy, like Adam Scott did a few years back when Norman was the captain. Tiger will be fine, he'll ride Stricker all weekend and work on his game in the process.

[EastexHawg]

You guys crack me up, when all you guys become President Cup captains you can pick whichever 2 players you want...Tiger got the nod because Boom Boom is his boy, like Adam Scott did a few years back when Norman was the captain. Tiger will be fine, he'll ride Stricker all weekend and work on his game in the process.

That's a great story, but which part of it has anything to do with Tiger's play the last two years making him deserving of being on the team?  I'm trying to envision a similar scenario.  What if Mike Anderson's Hogs go 12-4 in conference and 26-6 overall, but are left out of the NCAA tournament while an 18-13 Duke team makes the field...and the explanation is that the head of the selection committee has always admired Coach K and thinks Duke should be in the tournament based on their past accomplishments?

[reeser]

That's a great story, but which part of it has anything to do with Tiger's play the last two years making him deserving of being on the team?  I'm trying to envision a similar scenario.  What if Mike Anderson's Hogs go 12-4 in conference and 26-6 overall, but are left out of the NCAA tournament while an 18-13 Duke team makes the field...and the explanation is that the head of the selection committee has always admired Coach K and thinks Duke should be in the tournament based on their past accomplishments?

ACC bball > SEC ball

just the way it is

[Pulled(PP)pork]

No explanation needed.  Couples is a gutless sellout.

As for Tiger being named to the team because he finished 4th (when he choked on the back nine Sunday) at the Masters...Nicklaus wasn't picked for the Ryder Cup because he finished 6th at the Masters in 1998.  And he has 18 trophies he could photograph and email...

Tiger was named to every international team there was as a "reward" for all the tournaments he won and points he accumulated.  Current players deserve the same. 

A guy whose best finish since the last President's Cup is a tie for 4th, and whose OWGR has dropped over 30 places since then, doesn't deserve to be on the team.  End of story.

comparing apples to wingnuts, good lord.  How old was Nicklaus in 98? 60+?  Im not advocating Tiger being picked, but your argument stooooopid.

by the way, you don't rail on Rory for blowing the final round at the masters, with an 80, I believe.....why for?


PP

[EastexHawg]

comparing apples to wingnuts, good lord.  How old was Nicklaus in 98? 60+?  Im not advocating Tiger being picked, but your argument stooooopid.

by the way, you don't rail on Rory for blowing the final round at the masters, with an 80, I believe.....why for?


PP

If Rory was an American, hadn't won in two years, and his lone claim to fame was leading the Masters on the front nine until he choked down the stretch, I would think the same thing about him being selected for the team.

What does age have to do with anything?  Does Tiger get selected because he's won in the past and is still getting around without a walker?  When he tees it up in the President's Cup he will have won exactly as many tournaments in the past two years as Nicklaus had in 1998...or has won in 2011, for that matter.

Of course the Nicklaus argument is stupid...just as stupid as the idea that Tiger should be named to the team because he has "14 trophies."

Would you like it better if I used Tom Watson?  He has a bunch of trophies, too, and he's come a hell of a lot closer to winning a tournament in the last two years than Tiger has.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

If Rory was an American, hadn't won in two years, and his lone claim to fame was leading the Masters on the front nine until he choked down the stretch, I would think the same thing about him being selected for the team.

What does age have to do with anything?  Does Tiger get selected because he's won in the past and is still getting around without a walker?  When he tees it up in the President's Cup he will have won exactly as many tournaments in the past two years as Nicklaus had in 1998...or has won in 2011, for that matter.

Of course the Nicklaus argument is stupid...just as stupid as the idea that Tiger should be named to the team because he has "14 trophies."

Would you like it better if I used Tom Watson?  He has a bunch of trophies, too, and he's come a hell of a lot closer to winning a tournament in the last two years than Tiger has.

really, I would call it a wash, they both fell apart on the last day of the major.

Rory doesn't even compare, but I thought I would use the same idiocy you were.


PP

[EastexHawg]

really, I would call it a wash, they both fell apart on the last day of the major.

Not really.  Watson lost the British Open in a playoff.  Tiger's "near win" was when he finished four shots behind Schwartzel at the Masters.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Not really.  Watson lost the British Open in a playoff.  Tiger's "near win" was when he finished four shots behind Schwartzel at the Masters.

he had the lead and relinquished it, it was still a fail.


PP

[Hawg414]

correct, tiger hasnt won anything in two years.
correct, tiger hasnt really come close. 
also correct that many things not called suddenlossoftalent have played a factor.

if my life depends on a birdie on the next hole, i want tiger on the tee box moreso than any of the other goons mentioned. 

[EastexHawg]

if my life depends on a birdie on the next hole, i want tiger on the tee box moreso than any of the other goons mentioned. 

It's your life, but if we're dealing in facts there are 30 other players on tour who have broken par on a hole more often than Tiger this year...

Par Breakers...21.46%...31st...#Birdies/Eagles 85...#Holes 396

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/00/87/93/stats

Tiger makes birdie or eagle as often as Fredrik Jacobson

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?105

[Pulled(PP)pork]

It's your life, but if we're dealing in facts there are 30 other players on tour who have broken par on a hole more often than Tiger this year...

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/00/87/93/stats

Tiger makes birdie or eagle as often as Fredrik Jacobson

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?105

oh, is that the criteria?  Silly Fred!



PP

[al2305]

It's your life, but if we're dealing in facts there are 30 other players on tour who have broken par on a hole more often than Tiger this year...

http://www.pgatour.com/players/r/?/00/87/93/stats

Tiger makes birdie or eagle as often as Fredrik Jacobson

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/xm.html?105

Its not about stats, or ur hate for tiger, its about who's been there and had lots of success under pressure, and nobody has been better under pressure than Tiger.  In Freddie's mind Tiger is healthy and his game is getting better.  Barring any re-injuries I actually think he will be playing good by the presidents cup.  The only ones who 'deserve it' are the top 10 players.  After that it's whoever Freddie thinks will help the team the most. 

[Pulled(PP)pork]

I mean, really?  Freddie chooses some up and comer with little to no Ryder/Presidents Cup experience over a tried and trusted crafty veteran......that's just ludicrous.

not to mention, someone who the top ten grew up and probably aspired to be like.  I bet that just destroys team moral


PP

[kingofdequeen]

crafty veterans blast it into the next fairway 1 out of 2 times?

wow.  the def. has changed.

he COULD be a crafty veteran and beat the skis off folks....Hitting stingers and not giving a crap about the driver.  he's not shown he's willing to do that.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

crafty veterans blast it into the next fairway 1 out of 2 times?

wow.  the def. has changed.

he COULD be a crafty veteran and beat the skis off folks....Hitting stingers and not giving a crap about the driver.  he's not shown he's willing to do that.

I get what you are saying, but he brings experience to the table, almost like a Nolan Richardson would to MA.  Nolan prolly couldn't relate to the spoiled brats of today, but he's knows his basketball and could utilize his brains.

thatsallimsayin


PP

[kingofdequeen]

I get what you are saying, but he brings experience to the table, almost like a Nolan Richardson would to MA.  Nolan prolly couldn't relate to the spoiled brats of today, but he's knows his basketball and could utilize his brains.

thatsallimsayin


PP

the past is in the past. 

[Pulled(PP)pork]

the past is in the past.

we shall see


PP

[razorduck9]

the past is in the past. 

The past always counts though.....  in everything.  He is going to have to have a couple more years like the last 2 before anybody gives up on him in a situation like this.

The part that nobody has mentioned is how tough of a spot that puts the captain in when Tiger doesn't make it in on points by himself.  You don't pick him and lose, you get killed by the media and everybody else.  Maybe not by EastTex or Iwastherein1492whenchristophercolumbosailedtheoceanblue, but everybody else in mainstream media in and out of golf would bag you forever.

It's kind of one of those situations where you have to pick him if he wants to play IMO.  You have to pick him and either win or lose with him because you can't take the chance of losing without him.

I would have picked him also if I was the captain and he told me he wanted to play and would be ready.

[95_alum]

If "the past always counts", let Nicklaus tee it up. He has lots of trophies too.

[razorduck9]

If "the past always counts", let Nicklaus tee it up. He has lots of trophies too.

I was meaning the relatively recent past......  like 2 years ago in 2009 when he had 6 or 7 victories.  Not in the 60's and 70's before he was born.  Not trying to and not going to get in the Woods/Nicklaus pissing matches on here.

Not to actually throw too many facts out here that will muddy the arguments, but if yall remember the last time they had one of these President's cup get togethers Tiger went 5-0 in his matches..... was paired with Stricker in all the team matches to go 4-0 and won his singles match over Yang 6 and 5.  Only 2nd time an American has went 5-0 in President's cup play. (**Saw that on golf.com other day.  I didn't remember that**)

If I am captain, I am picking him.  If he tells me he is healthy and will commit to practice and will be ready when it comes around, he's on my team.

[razorduck9]

Here is the current standings.....  Meh, I would take my chances with Tiger too.

(Through August 28, 2011)

                 U.S. TEAM
 

Rank   Player                   Points
    1   Matt Kuchar      14,271,827
    2   Steve Stricker      13,907,203
    3   Dustin Johnson      13,361,897
    4   Nick Watney      12,231,320
    5   Phil Mickelson      11,967,727
    6   Bubba Watson      9,763,499
    7   Webb Simpson      9,196,373
    8   David Toms      8,918,935
    9   Hunter Mahan      8,672,292
   10   Bill Haas                    8,548,577
   11   Jim Furyk                    8,409,914
   12   Brandt Snedeker       8,066,263
   13   Rickie Fowler      7,516,201
   14   Bo Van Pelt      7,386,383
   15   Jonathan Byrd      7,280,688
   16   Zach Johnson      7,079,980
   17   Jason Dufner      7,055,408
   18   Mark Wilson      6,966,704
   19   Ryan Moore      6,899,113
   20   Keegan Bradley      6,864,399
   21   Ryan Palmer      6,548,434
   22   Gary Woodland      6,067,713
   23   C. Howell III      6,058,717
   24   Jeff Overton      5,921,385
   25   Steve Marino      5,811,032

[kingofdequeen]

you can pick a great team from those guys.  young guys that can get pumped up about playing together as a team and rallying together.

Throw tiger in the mix, and you take a chance at screwing with chemistry.

Hell, i'd leave phil at the house, too.

[95_alum]

I was meaning the relatively recent past......  like 2 years ago in 2009 when he had 6 or 7 victories.  Not in the 60's and 70's before he was born.  Not trying to and not going to get in the Woods/Nicklaus pissing matches on here.

Not to actually throw too many facts out here that will muddy the arguments, but if yall remember the last time they had one of these President's cup get togethers Tiger went 5-0 in his matches..... was paired with Stricker in all the team matches to go 4-0 and won his singles match over Yang 6 and 5.  Only 2nd time an American has went 5-0 in President's cup play. (**Saw that on golf.com other day.  I didn't remember that**)

If I am captain, I am picking him.  If he tells me he is healthy and will commit to practice and will be ready when it comes around, he's on my team.

Understood. I'm cheering for USA regardless.