Jim Harbaugh Rapidly Becoming The "Butch Jones" Of the Big 10

[HawgWild]

A coach is an adult male at the helm of a multi-million dollar athletic program.  He should be a symbol of stability and honesty. 

We've had adult coaches that have acted like children before.

[oldman1015]

And unless they completely shut down their recruiting after committing, they're not breaking their word.  A commit is non-binding until they sign the LOI, and coaches know this. 

our definition of committed and breaking your word is different. what they are allowed to do and what is right are two different things.

[hawganatic]

there is no difference in my opinion.

No offense, but your opinion is pretty far off base on this.  A player de-commits from a school, that doesn't change the course of that school's future.  If a coach pulls a player's scholarship, that effectively alters that kid's life.

Not to even bring up the fact that the schools is going to make millions off of that kid (if he is that good), and the kid makes minimal in return.  I think the kid gets a little more leeway on this...

[atekido]

He hasn't done anything wrong.  To much panzy PC in this topic.  CFB is a business first a sport second.

[Arkapigdiesel]

Jim Harbaugh, is at it again. After blindsiding long time 4 star OL commit Erik Swanson last week with his revoking of an offer, apparently another kid has been encouraged to seek "employment" elsewhere.

Quit crying.  All coaches have done it.  Big deal.  Some of you need to put some lead in your pencil.

[Vantage 8 dude]

He hasn't done anything wrong.  To much panzy PC in this topic.  CFB is a business first a sport second.

Okay tough guy! Gotta ya' Rocky or is that Apollo?

[Vantage 8 dude]

Quit crying.  All coaches have done it.  Big deal.  Some of you need to put some lead in your pencil.

I'll put lead in my pencil when you kindly put brains in your noggin'. Fair enough?

[ALLVOL]

Sorry....but as usual you fail again. And so how is Butch so well respected across the nation? Please refer and quote some of those wonderful testimonies. BTW never said the guy was necessarily a bad person-wife beater, murderer, kicks his dog or whatever. What I DID say is that based on some of "reopening his recruiting" cases at UT in the last couple of years the "slippery recruiting offer" is a Tenner staple.

Seriously? As usual I fail? We're talking football and opinion! How does one "fail" oh I get it. Your an e-cred guy who needs to show how brilliant you are. It's a shame they took the likes away.

Per your question, Coach B came on the radio and talked about Butch and raved about their friendship and how he is well respected etc.

[ALLVOL]

Quit crying.  All coaches have done it.  Big deal.  Some of you need to put some lead in your pencil.

Absolutely. It just usually doesn't get attention because the kid chooses to keep it quiet too.

[Dropkick]

Quit crying.  All coaches have done it.  Big deal.  Some of you need to put some lead in your pencil.

Not to be argumentative but does anyone know when the last time CBB did this? Bill Snyder? Kirk Ferentz?

[ALLVOL]

Not to be argumentative but does anyone know when the last time CBB did this? Bill Snyder? Kirk Ferentz?

Usually when it happens no one ever knows. Typically all parties keep it quiet.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Usually when it happens no one ever knows. Typically all parties keep it quiet.

However the one point you're still ignoring is that most coaches don't wait until the last two weeks of recruiting to spring their surprise on a kid. And in the case of the 4 star apparently the sainted Harbaugh didn't even have the gonads to tell it directly to the player. Apparently, at least according to reports I've heard, the recruit was told Harbaugh wouldn't speak to him.....nice and classy move there.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Usually when it happens no one ever knows. Typically all parties keep it quiet.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Seriously? As usual I fail? We're talking football and opinion! How does one "fail" oh I get it. Your an e-cred guy who needs to show how brilliant you are. It's a shame they took the likes away.

Per your question, Coach B came on the radio and talked about Butch and raved about their friendship and how he is well respected etc.

How about PM me? We can discuss at length/leisure. Besides I rather doubt our "pissing contest" is wanted or needed on here. As to the "likes" being taken away: I bet if you contact any of the mods they just might be able to accommodate you.

[ALLVOL]

How about PM me? We can discuss at length/leisure. Besides I rather doubt our "pissing contest" is wanted or needed on here. As to the "likes" being taken away: I bet if you contact any of the mods they just might be able to accommodate you.

This will be my last response to you. I've been on here for a very long time and get a long with overwhelming majority. I won't waste time with you anymore. Have a good day.

[Vantage 8 dude]

This will be my last response to you. I've been on here for a very long time and get a long with overwhelming majority. I won't waste time with you anymore. Have a good day.

Best news I (and I'm sure others) have had all day. You have a good one too.......

[LZH]

No offense, but your opinion is pretty far off base on this.  A player de-commits from a school, that doesn't change the course of that school's future.  If a coach pulls a player's scholarship, that effectively alters that kid's life.

Not to even bring up the fact that the schools is going to make millions off of that kid (if he is that good), and the kid makes minimal in return.  I think the kid gets a little more leeway on this...

That is kind of like saying one lie is more tolerable than another lie because it does less damage to one of the parties being lied to. They both are lies. I am NOT in favor of changing any rules, but my buddy from Desha County has a very good point.

A deal is a deal...... a verbal agreement is a verbal agreement.

[Vantage 8 dude]

That is kind of like saying one lie is more tolerable than another lie because it does less damage to one of the parties being lied to. They both are lies. I am NOT in favor of changing any rules, but my buddy from Desha County has a very good point.

A deal is a deal...... a verbal agreement is a verbal agreement.

I agree. However, you'd hope the idea that a "Man's word is his bond" would apply to BOTH parties. Unfortunately in today's world I'm afraid it often may not apply to either.

[LZH]

I agree. However, you'd hope the idea that a "Man's word is his bond" would apply to BOTH parties. Unfortunately in today's world I'm afraid it often may not apply to either.

Correct. And I understand that these kids are bombarded with fairy tales told by coaches and boosters to get them to sign. But, one five-star hotshot can hold three or four programs hostage while he does his televised "pick the hat trick" on signing day after he has already given a commitment to someone 12 months prior. Like I said, no need to shake things up just for the sake of change, but it is a problem for coaches and recruits alike.

[Squealers]

How do you come by that understanding?

If that's true than what the freak are we all talking about, anyhow.

Wait, those were offers made back sometime in 2014?  If so, could a kid possibly think a former coach's offer was valid in a new coach's program?? 

Seems illogical...

Read more, post less

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/25463245/its-all-business-jim-harbaugh-and-his-disappearing-michigan-commits

[Dropkick]

Usually when it happens no one ever knows. Typically all parties keep it quiet.

I'll take that as you don't have any examples.

[ALLVOL]

I'll take that as you don't have any examples.

Oops you got me. I just made that up. LoL

[code red]

And we should give a squat because???

[code red]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

Agreed Michigan has that kind of leverage....be nice if Arkansas could get there....I think CBB is the man to do it.

[Hambunctious]

The problem with opinions is they are often wrong, but the misinformed strut around like a peacock reminding you it's just their opinion.


"It's just business " is to blame for the downfall of society.

All Vol is full of it. The only thing he as said that is true is that Bielema and Butch are buddies. Then he used Bielema has Butch's lone character reference. I think to most people, Butch is the laughing stock of the SEC, and after he blows a couple more second half leads next year, he'll be an afterthought.

This happens all the time, but both parties keep quiet. Except then the kid ends up somewhere else all of sudden. I mean, what does it say about our society that people with that level of logic can function, sometimes successfully, on a daily basis?

Yep, no good excuse for anything.

[Torqued pork]

Who wants to see Urban and the Buckeyes win the Big Ten most years?

You go, Jimmy.

[ALLVOL]

The problem with opinions is they are often wrong, but the misinformed strut around like a peacock reminding you it's just their opinion.


"It's just business " is to blame for the downfall of society.

All Vol is full of it. The only thing he has said that is true is that Bielema and Butch are buddies. Then he used Bielema as Butch's lone character reference. I think to most people, Butch is the laughing stock of the SEC, and after he blows a couple more second half leads next year, he'll be an afterthought.

This happens all the time, but both parties keep quiet. Except then the kid ends up somewhere else all of sudden. I mean, what does it say about our society that people with that level of logic can function, sometimes successfully, on a daily basis?

LOL the guy asked me for an example and I gave one. There are tons of other examples but it really doesn't matter.

As far as UT goes blowing leads. The media over hyped the team going into the season. Go back and check and you will see my prediction was maybe 8 wins. And as far as a laughing stock of the SEC goes? OK man. LOL

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

LOL the guy asked me for an example and I gave one. There are tons of other examples but it really doesn't matter.

As far as UT goes blowing leads. The media over hyped the team going into the season. Go back and check and you will see my prediction was maybe 8 wins. And as far as a laughing stock of the SEC goes? OK man. LOL

I think you and I would both agree that Vandy and Kentucky are much more of a laughing stock of the SEC in football than you guys.  But that's probably where the agreement would end.   

[ALLVOL]

I think you and I would both agree that Vandy and Kentucky are much more of a laughing stock of the SEC in football than you guys.  But that's probably where the agreement would end.   

The funny thing about last season. Prior to the SEC media days pretty much everyone had UT going 7 to 8 wins. For ssome reason the media lost their darned minds at media days and people bought in. UT had a lot of talent but we had no depth and our Oline was an issues at Oline.

[Wooderson]

Coach B is not above doing this same thing.

Respectfully,
Kaleb Blanchard

[ALLVOL]

Coach B is not above doing this same thing.

Respectfully,
Kaleb Blanchard

It happens at pretty much all big football schools.

[Dropkick]

Coach B is not above doing this same thing.

Respectfully,
Kaleb Blanchard

Did CBB originally offer or was it a case of not honoring The previous staffs offer?

Nice try

[Vantage 8 dude]

Coach B is not above doing this same thing.

Respectfully,
Kaleb Blanchard

If that's the young man from Louisiana (?) that was hotly pursued by "Smiley" before he left and CBB entered as HC then there's a HUGE difference. The kid was NOT a CBB target. It was made clear by Bret after he got here that the offer wasn't going to remain. Pulling a scholarship offer made by a previous staff is one thing; having an offer pulled by an EXISTING staff is another. In other words, you aren't honoring the offer YOU tendered and then pulled just a couple weeks prior to NSD!!!!!!

[jackflash]

at the end of the day Harbaugh will be judge by if he wins. If he wins all will be forgiven

[VegasHog]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/25465425/jim-harbaughs-bringing-ric-flair-to-michigans-national-signing-day-party

[20gauge]

The 4* kid had been committed for a while. However when Harbaugh took over he met the kid and told him he would honor his commitment. Thing is Harbaugh had some low level employee call and tell the kid, he didn't do it himself if I read the article on it correctly.

I've seen several posts about kids flipping and so this is OK. No it's not. At this moment this is the biggest decision in their life. Yes some of them play games and that's another thing entirely. But for the most part these kids have a tough decision.

I believe a school should honor their offer once the kid commits unless there are extenuating circumstances requiring it to be pulled. Remember who the adults are and if we are trying build character young men then we should show character as well

[Vantage 8 dude]

at the end of the day Harbaugh will be judge by if he wins. If he wins all will be forgiven

And in a sense that is perhaps the saddest commentary on this whole business. Look, I get that either side (or both) can "pull"/flip a scholarship for any (or no reason). However, when you look at the circumstances, at least what's been made available to the public, the way the whole thing was handled IMO stinks to high heaven. First ole Jim waits until a couple weeks before NSD and to compound the problem he apparently doesn't even have the gonads to call the kid himself to give him the news. In fact, when the recruit wanted to talk directly with Harbaugh he was apparently too busy or otherwise engaged to speak with the kid. Yep, real courage and honor there.....

BTW for all who say in the end it just comes to winning and all will be forgiven there's another real issue IMO. Seems that in today's world whether it be business, sports or whatever the ONLY thing that matters is whether one wins or not. Screw your buddy, neighbor, competition, and anyone else that might get in your way just so YOU end up on top. While I'm fully appreciate that we pay our coaches to produce on the field results, I also believe you can win and coach with honor. I realize that's an old fashion viewpoint; however, I also believe that HCs and their staffs should also try to instill in their players some sense of right and wrong. In other words, how to win and play with honor. Hopefully the values these men instill will also impact the kid's lives off the playing field. In other words, the coach, as the adult, should set the standard and example for the kids to follow. As such, he should be held a higher measure of conduct.

A major reason why the #Uncommon theme of the staff on the Hill is so impressive and why I believe Hog fans everywhere should be so proud of who we have leading our team. Be a man of your word......

[ALLVOL]

We all can say how terrible this is or that is. But if a coach is the best guy in the world and loses he's fired.
Before he went on an ill advised motor cycle ride Bobby P was lauded on this very site and anyone who made statements about his character was attacked very harshly. What's his name here now?
Winning matters even if it's done by a bastard. Just so he is our bastard all is OK.

[Vantage 8 dude]

We all can say how terrible this is or that is. But if a coach is the best guy in the world and loses he's fired.
Before he went on an ill advised motor cycle ride Bobby P was lauded on this very site and anyone who made statements about his character was attacked very harshly. What's his name here now?
Winning matters even if it's done by a bastard. Just so he is our bastard all is OK.

My comments/thoughts/opinions still stand. And that applies to ANY and EVERY HC!

BTW just curious: how would you feel if you were the parent of either one of the two young men involved in Harbaugh's moves? Think you'd still be so disinterested/understanding under the circumstances? And please don't give me the standard line that "sure, it's just business........" 

[longpig]

Coach B is not above doing this same thing.

Respectfully,
Kaleb Blanchard

And many others, difference is Bielema evaluated the first class immediately, called every one of them personally that didn't meet his standards.  And btw, none of them he cut have done much and some have gotten cross ways with the law.

Here's the last mention of Blanchard, thank you Coach.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/04/suspended_south_alabama_runnin.html

[Dropkick]

We all can say how terrible this is or that is. But if a coach is the best guy in the world and loses he's fired.
Before he went on an ill advised motor cycle ride Bobby P was lauded on this very site and anyone who made statements about his character was attacked very harshly. What's his name here now?
Winning matters even if it's done by a bastard. Just so he is our bastard all is OK.

On this we agree

[ALLVOL]

On this we agree

Oh trust me. We all have our we have our hypcrit fans too. We had fans who LOVED Kiffin and now curse him. He was "good" when he was ours. Cracks me up.

[vol_in_ar]

It's a matter of what you want.  Do you want a coach with principles who will follow through on offers made, even if it means not having a place for a "better" prospect who wants to commit at the last minute?  Or do you want somebody who takes the best when they come available, even if it means telling a less talented commit to get lost?

Butch Jones is clearly the latter, but he's pulling in blue chippers left and right.  Makes me mad but I have a feeling the UT fans are on board with his methods.

after the 8 years, Hambone set us on..we're on board with winning

[Vantage 8 dude]

after the 8 years, Hambone set us on..we're on board with winning

Well golly, gee.....we have someone else on board with winning. Who'd a thunk it? The real question is HOW you achieve your success. Do you do it with honesty and being up front or do you do it with just telling a kid to "get lost" if another recruit comes along you prefer more? I believe either way CAN yield the same results. However, the manner you choose also speaks volumes about your values and character as a person. 

[ALLVOL]

Well golly, gee.....we have someone else on board with winning. Who'd a thunk it? The real question is HOW you achieve your success. Do you do it with honesty and being up front or do you do it with just telling a kid to "get lost" if another recruit comes along you prefer more? I believe either way CAN yield the same results. However, the manner you choose also speaks volumes about your values and character as a person. 

I have ZERO doubt Butch Jones is a very good person. All though you're opinion of him weights heavily on my opinions...

[Torqued pork]

He hasn't done anything wrong.  To much panzy PC in this topic.  CFB is a business first a sport second.

Exactly. It's just too easy to get out the soapbox when you don't have boosters expecting greatness and a multi-million dollar contract riding on the performances of 18-22 year olds.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I have ZERO doubt Butch Jones is a very good person. All though you're opinion of him weights heavily on my opinions...

Glad you've FINALLY come over from the "dark side" and have seen the true light! It's heavenly over here, bro, just delightful. 

[Vantage 8 dude]

Exactly. It's just too easy to get out the soapbox when you don't have boosters expecting greatness and a multi-million dollar contract riding on the performances of 18-22 year olds.

Again, the point being, and not getting on a "soapbox" as you say, there are a lot of ways a HC and staff can conduct themselves when it comes to recruiting top players. And it DOESN'T necessarily have to entail being a "d#ck" when it comes to how you conduct yourself toward pursuing/handling recruits and offers. And that's a fact, jack!

[ALLVOL]

Again, the point being, and not getting on a "soapbox" as you say, there are a lot of ways a HC and staff can conduct themselves when it comes to recruiting top players. And it DOESN'T necessarily have to entail being a "d#ck" when it comes to how you conduct yourself toward pursuing/handling recruits and offers. And that's a fact, jack!

I don't remember your outrage when Mr Character himself Bobby P coached at Fville. Ohhhhhhh that's right a bbastard is cool as long as he's your bastard. I see.

Your level headed/fairness is legendary on this site...

[ALLVOL]

Again, the point being, and not getting on a "soapbox" as you say, there are a lot of ways a HC and staff can conduct themselves when it comes to recruiting top players. And it DOESN'T necessarily have to entail being a "d#ck" when it comes to how you conduct yourself toward pursuing/handling recruits and offers. And that's a fact, jack!

I guess you're very upset with Coach B then. I mean he's bringing kids in who have already committed to other schools. How dare he try and teach young men (uncommon if you will) to go against their word!!! What kind of person would try and get young influential men to not keep their word. Am I right? LOL