Jim Harbaugh Rapidly Becoming The "Butch Jones" Of the Big 10

[Vantage 8 dude]

Not to be outdone by Butch Jones' antics of pulling scholarship offers I see our old "friend" up north at Meeccchegan, Jim Harbaugh, is at it again. After blindsiding long time 4 star OL commit Erik Swanson last week with his revoking of an offer, apparently another kid has been encouraged to seek "employment" elsewhere. According to a news release on Monday Rashad Weaver, a 2 star DE out of Cooper City, Florida, was told that there was a "50/50 chance"  UM wouldn't have room for him in this year's class.

Weaver committed in June 2015 after an outstanding performance in a South Florida satellite camp. As a result he was one of the Wolverine's first pledges to the upcoming freshman football class.

Weaver was apparently told that if he still wanted to attend Ann Arbor that he could do so as either an preferred walk-on or could enter a prep school. According to Rashad the school told him that he was a considered a "Plan B"  player all along.

There are several programs that the young man is considering. Perhaps in this case "all's-well-that-ends-well".

[Hogarusa]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

[Vantage 8 dude]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

Perhaps. Then again, when you begin to develop a pattern (second one in a week, including a 4 star) it's a legitimate reason to post. Yep, it's certainly not an unknown occurrence; however, maybe it would be better to wait to offer even if it means you possibly endanger getting a pledge in the first place.

A lot of folks have complained that for whatever reason(s) we were "slow to the party" in offering Daniels. I certainly have no insight into why that was so. However, even if we lose the young man due to our much more deliberate pace in extending the offer I much prefer that approach then possibly handing out an offer to a (any) young man and then jerking it at the (relatively) last moment. I suppose it depends on how you want to be perceived and how you want to play the odds. 

BTW if Harbaugh is accepting offers from only 4 stars and above then why did he once again wait to pull an offer?  Are you saying that he only just now discovered the kid didn't "measure up"? And one more btw....so if he only accepts pledges from the "cream of the crop" how does that jive with the revocation of the Swanson offer-a four star in his own right. Sorry, you've offered up a very miserable excuse/explanation. Even for you that's pitiful.

[PorkRinds]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

What it does show is that you commit to Michigan at your own risk unless you're a 5 star.  With the fact that we hired a guy that's going to be recruiting OL against Harbaugh, I want him to keep this up. 

[HawgWild]

It could have been handled even more poorly.

[Vantage 8 dude]

What it does show is that you commit to Michigan at your own risk unless you're a 5 star.  With the fact that we hired a guy that's going to be recruiting OL against Harbaugh, I want him to keep this up.

At this rate even if you're a five star who says you're totally safe with this clown? I mean apparently you might have to have some type of exceptional "swag" or other notoriety to qualify and maintain an offer from his majesty JH.

[Vantage 8 dude]

It could have been handled even more poorly.

Perhaps. However, that's still doesn't address the pattern that this idiot is establishing. Hence the "Butch Jones" comparison.

[Hoggish1]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

Harbaugh can cast out a ton of offers and then sort through those t0 accept a week or less before signing date and take who are the highest rated ones? 

That's not a method.  He must not plan to be at Michigan past a couple more years.

[Hoggish1]

What it does show is that you commit to Michigan at your own risk unless you're a 5 star.  With the fact that we hired a guy that's going to be recruiting OL against Harbaugh, I want him to keep this up. 

Wait, so you are saying it's the kid who commits w/o an offer?  Or, are you saying the offer is like a trawling net and only good when we've finished sorting through the net and have culled out the best fish...?

Actually the dept. of natural resources will give you a hefty fine for that...

LMAO

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Perhaps. However, that's still doesn't address the pattern that this idiot is establishing. Hence the "Butch Jones" comparison.

It's a matter of what you want.  Do you want a coach with principles who will follow through on offers made, even if it means not having a place for a "better" prospect who wants to commit at the last minute?  Or do you want somebody who takes the best when they come available, even if it means telling a less talented commit to get lost?

Butch Jones is clearly the latter, but he's pulling in blue chippers left and right.  Makes me mad but I have a feeling the UT fans are on board with his methods.

[PorkRinds]

Wait, so you are saying it's the kid who commits w/o an offer?  Or, are you saying the offer is like a trawling net and only good when we've finished sorting through the net and have culled out the best fish...?

Actually the dept. of natural resources will give you a hefty fine for that...

LMAO

I'm confused by this post.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

It's a matter of what you want.  Do you want a coach with principles who will follow through on offers made, even if it means not having a place for a "better" prospect who wants to commit at the last minute?  Or do you want somebody who takes the best when they come available, even if it means telling a less talented commit to get lost?

Butch Jones is clearly the latter, but he's pulling in blue chippers left and right.  Makes me mad but I have a feeling the UT fans are on board with his methods.

In case you are not aware, at this point Tennessee and Arkansas are virtually neck and neck in this years recruiting race.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

In case you are not aware, at this point Tennessee and Arkansas are virtually neck and neck in this years recruiting race.

Rivals has Tennessee #18 and Arkansas #36.  I wouldn't exactly call that neck-and-neck.  But I'm sure there are other services that have them closer.

My point was simply that Jones' methods don't seem to be hurting UT at all.  And Bielema's methods are obviously working for him okay too.  Again, what type of coach do you want?  I'm great with who we have.

[ZERO]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

I think it depends on the context, but you'd generally want your 52 year-old head coach to make decisions, deal with people, and handle delicate situations better than you're average attention-seeking 17 year-old, wouldn't you say?

It's not so much that he yanked the offer. That's whatever. But it's Michigan. A blue-blood program if there ever was one. Was there any real threat of their brand (helmed by a coach who took a team to the Super Bowl like three years ago) having to stoop so low as to lead on a 2* for half a year because they didn't think a flashier recruit would come along? It's a freaking week until signing day. This is all just entirely unnecessary.

[longpig]

Just when you think James Joseph couldn't get any flakier.

[Paul]

Dude is a 2 star, Harbaugh is only accepting 4 star and above.  I dont think this is really that uncommon.  If kids can decommit, then coaches should be able to pull offers.  No biggie

definitely not UNCOMMON

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Rivals has Tennessee #18 and Arkansas #36.  I wouldn't exactly call that neck-and-neck.  But I'm sure there are other services that have them closer.

My point was simply that Jones' methods don't seem to be hurting UT at all.  And Bielema's methods are obviously working for him okay too.  Again, what type of coach do you want?  I'm great with who we have.

Oh, I much prefer Bielema and his methods. And IMO Harbaugh is a tee total chit head.

BTW, not being argumentative, but don't reference Rivals. They haven't been up to snuff since Shannon Terry sold it to Yahoo and started 247 Sports. Seriously.

[Hoggish1]

It's a matter of what you want.  Do you want a coach with principles who will follow through on offers made, even if it means not having a place for a "better" prospect who wants to commit at the last minute?  Or do you want somebody who takes the best when they come available, even if it means telling a less talented commit to get lost?

Butch Jones is clearly the latter, but he's pulling in blue chippers left and right.  Makes me mad but I have a feeling the UT fans are on board with his methods.

Well, we beat those blue chippers this year.  So, let's see who wins the SEC first, between our "methods..."

[Hoggish1]

I'm confused by this post.

I thought I was clear about my post, but I'll try again.

With fishing regulations, in most states, if you take a fish off the stringer and throw it back 'cause you caught a bigger one (culling), if caught you are subject to a pretty hefty fine.

Harbaugh and Jones should be fined (not a literal fine) for such behavior and perhaps the law of karma will catch up to them in the end with such behavior.

Back to my question:  Is UM making offers like a trawler lets out a net then takes the biggest fish, throwing the rest back or does their offer mean anything?

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Well, we beat those blue chippers this year.  So, let's see who wins the SEC first, between us with our "methods..."

Amen brother.  Any year we beat the puke orange hillbillies is a good year.

[Hoggish1]

I think it depends on the context, but you'd generally want your 52 year-old head coach to make decisions, deal with people, and handle delicate situations better than you're average attention-seeking 17 year-old, wouldn't you say?

It's not so much that he yanked the offer. That's whatever. But it's Michigan. A blue-blood program if there ever was one. Was there any real threat of their brand (helmed by a coach who took a team to the Super Bowl like three years ago) having to stoop so low as to lead on a 2* for half a year because they didn't think a flashier recruit would come along? It's a freaking week until signing day. This is all just entirely unnecessary.

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about...

[Squealers]

From what I understand these players were never offered by Harbaugh.  They were offered by Brady Hoke.  I am sure Harbaugh is just aligning to his vision....even though it sucks for the players turned away.

[Torqued pork]

Big time college football is becoming more like the cutthroat NFL all time time. Stories like this will soon be looked at as business as usual.

[Hoggish1]

From what I understand these players were never offered by Harbaugh.  They were offered by Brady Hoke.  I am sure Harbaugh is just aligning to his vision....even though it sucks for the players turned away.

How do you come by that understanding?

If that's true than what the freak are we all talking about, anyhow.

Wait, those were offers made back sometime in 2014?  If so, could a kid possibly think a former coach's offer was valid in a new coach's program?? 

Seems illogical...

[Jackrabbit Hog]

If that's true than what the freak are we all talking about, anyhow.

Wait, those were offers made back sometime in 2014 sometime?  If so, could a kid possibly think a former coach's offer was valid in a new coach's program?? 

Seems illogical...

Reminds me, I wonder if those 12-13 year olds that Kiffin was offering at UT and SoCal are still expecting their scholies?

[ricepig]

From what I understand these players were never offered by Harbaugh.  They were offered by Brady Hoke.  I am sure Harbaugh is just aligning to his vision....even though it sucks for the players turned away.

Which isn't a problem, but tell them 6 months ago when you determined they didn't fit, not when better players came along.

[BornaHog]

I thought I was clear about my post, but I'll try again.

With fishing regulations, in most states, if you take a fish off the stringer and throw it back 'cause you caught a bigger one (culling), if caught you are subject to a pretty hefty fine.

Harbaugh and Jones should be fined (not a literal fine) for such behavior and perhaps the law of karma will catch up to them in the end with such behavior.

Back to my question:  Is UM making offers like a trawler lets out a net then takes the biggest fish, throwing the rest back or does their offer mean anything?

  The part about fishing is in fact wrong in every state which I have fished. I have fished in roughly 40 of the lower 48 states. All of the professional circuits also use an immediate cull in their tournaments. The states the circuits use normally have a Game and Fish crew there to collect any large fish to help with increasing their brood stock programs. I know this from experience and am not just making some knee jerk remark.   WPS    :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:   GHG

[Vantage 8 dude]

From what I understand these players were never offered by Harbaugh.  They were offered by Brady Hoke.  I am sure Harbaugh is just aligning to his vision....even though it sucks for the players turned away.

Wait a second-when was Harbaugh hired? It's clearly stated that the latest "turn back" was offered after a camp LAST spring/summer down in Florida. Did I somehow miss the fact that Hoke was still recruiting in '15 for the Woolyrines? I once again pose the question: was the not great evaluator of talent, Harbaugh, just made aware that less than two weeks before NSD he might not really want a two star?

[Vantage 8 dude]

Reminds me, I wonder if those 12-13 year olds that Kiffin was offering at UT and SoCal are still expecting their scholies?

Golly, that's a good question. I just hope those kids are waiting by the phone holding their breathes waiting for that one special call from ole Lane.

[ALLVOL]

Perhaps. However, that's still doesn't address the pattern that this idiot is establishing. Hence the "Butch Jones" comparison.

Butch Jones LOL. OK man. It happens at every school. Most of the time the kid keeps it quiet and states they're "opening up" their recruiting.

[Sed76]

Just wait til Harbaugh slips out in the middle of the night at one of these recruit sleepovers to high tail it back to the NFL. He just comes across as a first class jackwagon.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Butch Jones LOL. OK man. It happens at every school. Most of the time the kid keeps it quiet and states they're "opening up" their recruiting.

Happens at EVERY school and less than two weeks before NSD    Right, keep tell yourself that Vol man and btw it obviously happens at some places FAR more than others-Like in Knocksville. Oh yeah, as a Vol fan you obviously speak from great experience as the refrain (i.e. excuse) of "opening up" their recruiting has been echoing through the hills around your campus continually for the past couple of years. Funny how that's happened.....

[LZH]

Call it the law of attraction, positive reinforcement.....or, as in the Boiler Room movie, "act as if". When people think that you have a big swinger because that is what you have led them to believe, they will treat you as if you actually have one.

It seems possible that "Hardball" is playing hardball with some of these kids to light a fire under their ass to commit early to Michigan asafp. The old "you had better take it before I change my mind" trick.

[Murr]

Not to be outdone by Butch Jones' antics of pulling scholarship offers I see our old "friend" up north at Meeccchegan, Jim Harbaugh, is at it again. After blindsiding long time 4 star OL commit Erik Swanson last week with his revoking of an offer, apparently another kid has been encouraged to seek "employment" elsewhere. According to a news release on Monday Rashad Weaver, a 2 star DE out of Cooper City, Florida, was told that there was a "50/50 chance"  UM wouldn't have room for him in this year's class.

Weaver committed in June 2015 after an outstanding performance in a South Florida satellite camp. As a result he was one of the Wolverine's first pledges to the upcoming freshman football class.

Weaver was apparently told that if he still wanted to attend Ann Arbor that he could do so as either an preferred walk-on or could enter a prep school. According to Rashad the school told him that he was a considered a "Plan B"  player all along.

There are several programs that the young man is considering. Perhaps in this case "all's-well-that-ends-well".

If he can help us, I believe he'll get two cracks at Michigan with his time as a razorback.  That would be motivation enough for me.

[Murr]

Just wait til Harbaugh slips out in the middle of the night at one of these recruit sleepovers to high tail it back to the NFL. He just comes across as a first class jackwagon.

JH saw the situation in San Francisco falling apart and got out because he couldn't fix it with the new GM they have now.  I remember when he was at Stanford, JH was talking about how he wanted to do a two QB system with RG3 and Johnny Football.  Instead, he settled for Andrew Luck.

[ALLVOL]

Happens at EVERY school and less than two weeks before NSD    Right, keep tell yourself that Vol man and btw it obviously happens at some places FAR more than others-Like in Knocksville. Oh yeah, as a Vol fan you obviously speak from great experience as the refrain (i.e. excuse) of "opening up" their recruiting has been echoing through the hills around your campus continually for the past couple of years. Funny how that's happened.....

I guess that's why Butch is so well respected across the nation. Hell, he's very close friends with your coach. But he's a bad person...

[BPsTheMan]

I'm hereby pulling Ponderin and ricepig's schollies

sorry grayshirts!! Hahahahaha!!!

[Hoggish1]

  The part about fishing is in fact wrong in every state which I have fished. I have fished in roughly 40 of the lower 48 states. All of the professional circuits also use an immediate cull in their tournaments. The states the circuits use normally have a Game and Fish crew there to collect any large fish to help with increasing their brood stock programs. I know this from experience and am not just making some knee jerk remark.   WPS    :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback: :razorback:   GHG

I'm not talking about professional rules, etc.  Every day limits say you can't cull...  You can choose to not bring the fish in the boat, but that isn't what I referenced. 

For recruiting purposes, if you throw out a line and catch a recruit, you can't throw him back if you catch a bigger recruit' unless you don't care about the rules...

[Vantage 8 dude]

I guess that's why Butch is so well respected across the nation. Hell, he's very close friends with your coach. But he's a bad person...

Sorry....but as usual you fail again. And so how is Butch so well respected across the nation? Please refer and quote some of those wonderful testimonies. BTW never said the guy was necessarily a bad person-wife beater, murderer, kicks his dog or whatever. What I DID say is that based on some of "reopening his recruiting" cases at UT in the last couple of years the "slippery recruiting offer" is a Tenner staple.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I'm hereby pulling Ponderin and ricepig's schollies

sorry grayshirts!! Hahahahaha!!!

Harry Rex, is it really you?! I heard an ugly, nasty rumor over on Dickson Street Tavern that you were really just a distant memory. Man, am I glad to see you're really still with us.

[EastexHawg]

I thought I was clear about my post, but I'll try again.

With fishing regulations, in most states, if you take a fish off the stringer and throw it back 'cause you caught a bigger one (culling), if caught you are subject to a pretty hefty fine.

You may want to check your analogy.  I have fished tournaments in several states and I have not yet seen one where culling a smaller fish for a bigger one is not allowed.

EDIT:  Okay, I see that someone else already made this point.

[DeltaBoy]

Feel bad for the Kid and I hope he lands somewhere.

[oldman1015]

why is it ok for a kid to back out but not a coach?

[ricepig]

I'm hereby pulling Ponderin and ricepig's schollies

sorry grayshirts!! Hahahahaha!!!

[hawganatic]

why is it ok for a kid to back out but not a coach?

Difference between a 17-year-old kid and a full grown adult making a decision.

The decision also affects the kid a lot more than it does the coach. 

[oldman1015]

Difference between a 17-year-old kid and a full grown adult making a decision.

The decision also affects the kid a lot more than it does the coach. 

there is no difference in my opinion.

[PorkRinds]

there is no difference in my opinion.

Your opinion is just that, your opinion.  But it's also pretty much wrong.  A coach is an adult male at the helm of a multi-million dollar athletic program.  He should be a symbol of stability and honesty.  Pulling kids' offers is one thing.  Pulling them within two weeks of signing day leaves a teenager in a bad spot, especially if it's a kid that has been committed for a long time, and has ended his recruiting.  It can leave them without a good landing spot simply because they were loyal to the school.  Penalizing a teenager for loyalty, which you seem to think is fair, is not a good practice.  Coaches are adults, and have plenty of options.  One player flipping doesn't make a huge difference, even if it's a highly regarded player.  But pulling an offer can negatively impact a player for the rest of their lives.

[Adam Stokes]

Rivals has Tennessee #18 and Arkansas #36.  I wouldn't exactly call that neck-and-neck.  But I'm sure there are other services that have them closer.

My point was simply that Jones' methods don't seem to be hurting UT at all.  And Bielema's methods are obviously working for him okay too.  Again, what type of coach do you want?  I'm great with who we have.

Yeah, I think that's why we should just 247 composite when comparing player/team rankings.  It averages the various sites together and eliminates a lot of cherry-picking of stats in the process.  247 has Tennessee at 20 and Arkansas at 23, both with the same numbers of commits.

[oldman1015]

Your opinion is just that, your opinion.  But it's also pretty much wrong.  A coach is an adult male at the helm of a multi-million dollar athletic program.  He should be a symbol of stability and honesty.  Pulling kids' offers is one thing.  Pulling them within two weeks of signing day leaves a teenager in a bad spot, especially if it's a kid that has been committed for a long time, and has ended his recruiting.  It can leave them without a good landing spot simply because they were loyal to the school.  Penalizing a teenager for loyalty, which you seem to think is fair, is not a good practice.  Coaches are adults, and have plenty of options.  One player flipping doesn't make a huge difference, even if it's a highly regarded player.  But pulling an offer can negatively impact a player for the rest of their lives.

I'm saying both are wrong. a 17-18 year old is old enough to learn his word matters.

[PorkRinds]

I'm saying both are wrong. a 17-18 year old is old enough to learn his word matters.

And unless they completely shut down their recruiting after committing, they're not breaking their word.  A commit is non-binding until they sign the LOI, and coaches know this.