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Mike’s recruiting

Started by rolyat_2008, March 20, 2018, 02:08:23 am

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steveaustin69

Quote from: daprospecta on March 21, 2018, 10:02:37 am
This is cbb. Players transfer, go to the NBA, can't get medically cleared etc.  Every year Duke may have one or two core guys but the rest are usually young. Along with most successful programs.

Yes and we return zero current core guys if Gafford leaves and aren't bringing in a plethora of top 100 impact players.

#1 STUNNA

one thing is for sure... we will be alot more athletic than we were this season... if you arent skilled you at least need to be athletic. Right now we have to many guys that are one or the other. That was our biggest issue this season. I like this class alot. Losing perry hurts alot if we lose Gafford. Other than that I think all positions will be upgraded in athleticism which will in return help our defense as I thought we were very slow and unathletic. Some of our freshman looked very athletic at times and very lost at other times. I look for them to play alot faster and confident this year.

 

GuvHog

Quote from: daprospecta on March 21, 2018, 10:02:37 am
This is cbb. Players transfer, go to the NBA, can't get medically cleared etc.  Every year Duke may have one or two core guys but the rest are usually young. Along with most successful programs.

Duke doesn't have years where as many as 6 or 7 players leave. Coach K is an expert at balanced recruiting.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on March 21, 2018, 10:08:38 am
one thing is for sure... we will be alot more athletic than we were this season... if you arent skilled you at least need to be athletic. Right now we have to many guys that are one or the other. That was our biggest issue this season. I like this class alot. Losing perry hurts alot if we lose Gafford. Other than that I think all positions will be upgraded in athleticism which will in return help our defense as I thought we were very slow and unathletic. Some of our freshman looked very athletic at times and very lost at other times. I look for them to play alot faster and confident this year.

Without Gafford, the Hogs will get killed in 2018-2019 underneath the basket. Also, it looks as if college basketball is going back to 4 quarters instead of 2 halves and that will make it even more difficult to wear teams down so I'd doubt that playing faster will help.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: GuvHog on March 21, 2018, 10:11:20 am
Duke doesn't have years where as many as 6 or 7 players leave. Coach K is an expert at balanced recruiting.

2015 6 signed
2016 6 signed
2017 7 signed
2018 4 signed

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: GuvHog on March 21, 2018, 10:16:24 am
Without Gafford, the Hogs will get killed in 2018-2019 underneath the basket. Also, it looks as if college basketball is going back to 4 quarters instead of 2 halves and that will make it even more difficult to wear teams down so I'd doubt that playing faster will help.

when i mean play alot faster i mean not timid and scared.

GlassofSwine

Quote from: GuvHog on March 21, 2018, 10:16:24 am
Without Gafford, the Hogs will get killed in 2018-2019 underneath the basket. Also, it looks as if college basketball is going back to 4 quarters instead of 2 halves and that will make it even more difficult to wear teams down so I'd doubt that playing faster will help.

Gafford is not the key piece to next years success. He wasn't this year either. He is an elite defender around the rim and great at cleaning up missed shots. He was no threat offensively off the block to score and he was not a very good defensive rebounder. We lived and died by our guard play. Many games we played better with Thompson on the floor. The incoming guards will have far more to do with our success or failure with or without Gafford.

HawgHeadCheese

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on March 21, 2018, 10:21:01 am
2015 6 signed
2016 6 signed
2017 7 signed
2018 4 signed
Lol I swear people don't check Google they just say dumb stuff. I'm sure he will have a dumb comeback tho. Good facts

steveaustin69

Quote from: HawgHeadCheese on March 21, 2018, 11:35:21 am
Lol I swear people don't check Google they just say dumb stuff. I'm sure he will have a dumb comeback tho. Good facts

You can do that when you sign the number 1, 2, 3 and 9 player in the nation...

HawgHeadCheese

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 12:07:14 pm
You can do that when you sign the number 1, 2, 3 and 9 player in the nation...
That wasn't the debate though. They were debating roster balance.

steveaustin69

Quote from: HawgHeadCheese on March 21, 2018, 12:10:35 pm
That wasn't the debate though. They were debating roster balance.

Huge swings in your roster are disadvantageous unless you are bringing in studs year in, year out. Duke shouldn't have been mentioned as a team with roster continuity, but the point stands. Mike doesn't bring in highly rated players and doesn't balance his roster.

GuvHog

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 12:07:14 pm
You can do that when you sign the number 1, 2, 3 and 9 player in the nation...

Exactly. Coach K signs 5 star players Just as Calipari does.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: HawgHeadCheese on March 21, 2018, 12:10:35 pm
That wasn't the debate though. They were debating roster balance.

In my reply above, I stated that some coaches live and die signing 5 Star one and done players. Obviously Coach K is one who signs mostly 5 Star players.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

 

hogsanity

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 12:13:27 pm
Huge swings in your roster are disadvantageous unless you are bringing in studs year in, year out. Duke shouldn't have been mentioned as a team with roster continuity, but the point stands. Mike doesn't bring in highly rated players and doesn't balance his roster.

Duke is kind of a hybrid. They have one and dones but then they have a guy like Allen who is pretty good and has been there 4 years.

As you pointed out, Mike does not sign much in the way of 1 and done or 2 and done, or NBA talent at all really, and then he has almost all of the scoring graduate at one time. Terrible roster mgt.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hobhog

Quote from: King Kong on March 21, 2018, 08:10:22 am
If we go by the success stories. Clearly one could go the other way and point out the ones that didn't work out.

Players like Qualls, BP, Hannahs, Macon, Barford and Durham took about a year.

Madden and Kingsley 2.

Ceiling for Mike. And what was accomplished with these players?

hawg66

The  six seniors is largely the result of Anderson going with jucos to plug holes in the roster. Would anyone like to have seen the last two years without Macon and Barford?

The practice facility was needed sooner and has definitely helped recruiting. There were holes that weren't getting filled. Personally I'll take 49 wins and two trips to the tourney over what the last two seasons would have been without those jucos. The unbalanced class is the payback.

steveaustin69

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 01:14:26 pm
The  six seniors is largely the result of Anderson going with jucos to plug holes in the roster. Would anyone like to have seen the last two years without Macon and Barford?

The practice facility was needed sooner and has definitely helped recruiting. There were holes that weren't getting filled. Personally I'll take 49 wins and two trips to the tourney over what the last two seasons would have been without those jucos. The unbalanced class is the payback.

Those holes are his fault...


The Hogfather

Quote from: BentonvilleJeff on March 20, 2018, 09:52:35 am
I remember the time we lost in the big dance when Big O, Mayberry, and Day were seniors.  It was like someone had died. The incoming class was good but nobody knew how they would do. Corliss came in hurt and was going to miss an early game against Memphis St. I went to Barnhill thinking Penny was going to whip our tails. We ended up playing them out of the gym with all our new guys. Some dude named Scotty Thurman that nobody wanted was draining 30 footers.

Moral of the story. Let's wait and see with the eyeball test next season against D1 competition what we have.

I actually love that we won't be able to "rely" on older players because Anderson really gets too into that mentality.  Next season, he'll have to play the younger, more talented players.  Sure, the youngsters will have some growing pains, but they'll grow up fast.

I know I keep saying this, but we will be as good, if not better, if:

1.  Gafford comes back.
2.  Garland is cleared and plays the whole season.
3.  Harris does what I think he's going to do.

I think Harris is going to surprise a lot of people who only look at his stats at New Mexico as a barometer for how good he currently is. 

If Gafford leaves, Garland isn't cleared, and/or Harris doesn't pan out like I think he's going to, we will probably have a rough year.  I just don't see where the offense would come from and it is hard to rely on freshmen to provide scoring and consistent defense.

hawg66

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 01:20:06 pm
Those holes are his fault...
So what would you have had him do to fill those holes?  It wasn't ideal but the jucos gave us a nice two years.

NaturalStateReb

The big intangible on recruiting is the FBI thing.  Clearly, MA isn't cheating or paying players, so he's not implicated in any way. 

This federal thing is about to start causing some real casualties.  Part of the reason that MA might not have done as well in recruiting is that he's not paying.  Maybe in the aftermath of the investigation, or at least with the investigation ongoing, it might balance the scales for programs like Arkansas. 
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

The Hogfather

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on March 21, 2018, 01:31:20 pm
The big intangible on recruiting is the FBI thing.  Clearly, MA isn't cheating or paying players, so he's not implicated in any way. 

This federal thing is about to start causing some real casualties.  Part of the reason that MA might not have done as well in recruiting is that he's not paying.  Maybe in the aftermath of the investigation, or at least with the investigation ongoing, it might balance the scales for programs like Arkansas. 

That's my hope, too.  Guys like for sure Perry, for sure Monk, possibly Goodwin, possibly Allen (although I wouldn't want him) probably would've ended up at Arkansas if it wasn't for $$$$$$$$.

Kevin

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 01:14:26 pm
The  six seniors is largely the result of Anderson going with jucos to plug holes in the roster. Would anyone like to have seen the last two years without Macon and Barford?

The practice facility was needed sooner and has definitely helped recruiting. There were holes that weren't getting filled. Personally I'll take 49 wins and two trips to the tourney over what the last two seasons would have been without those jucos. The unbalanced class is the payback.
.

Really, back to the practice facility excuse. Good grief
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

steveaustin69

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 01:31:16 pm
So what would you have had him do to fill those holes?  It wasn't ideal but the jucos gave us a nice two years.

Not get in the position in the first place.......what don't you get? The buck starts and stops with Anderson; this is his program and he's been poor at managing his roster. He pushed having a shallow and inexperienced roster to the future by going JUCO.

OkieBack

Quote from: The Hogfather on March 21, 2018, 01:35:59 pm
That's my hope, too.  Guys like for sure Perry, for sure Monk, possibly Goodwin, possibly Allen (although I wouldn't want him) probably would've ended up at Arkansas if it wasn't for $$$$$$$$.

And this is the intangible that would swing CMA's way.  Don't be surprised if after the NCAA wields its hammer down that the UofA sees some nice transfers come in from known programs in the next year or two.  I still would like to see a big-time fundamentals assistant hired to correct the little crap that drives me nuts.

 

hawg66

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 21, 2018, 01:58:51 pm
Not get in the position in the first place.......what don't you get? The buck starts and stops with Anderson; this is his program and he's been poor at managing his roster. He pushed having a shallow and inexperienced roster to the future by going JUCO.
so in 2016 when those holes were there your solution was that Anderson turn back time. Got it. You're hopeless guy. I don't live in a world of what could have been. If you make a mistake at work or in your personal life, just wishing it never happened won't help.

hogsanity

Oh boy, heard someone talking about the in coming class on the radio yesterday, and they must have mentioned how ATHLETIC the class is about a dozen times. Not one mention of their basketball abilities.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

steveaustin69

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 02:33:42 pm
so in 2016 when those holes were there your solution was that Anderson turn back time. Got it. You're hopeless guy. I don't live in a world of what could have been. If you make a mistake at work or in your personal life, just wishing it never happened won't help.

Did he take over the program in 2016 or 2011? I must be misremembering.

He made his bed.

HognotinMemphis

Quote from: daprospecta on March 21, 2018, 10:02:37 am
This is cbb. Players transfer, go to the NBA, can't get medically cleared etc.  Every year Duke may have one or two core guys but the rest are usually young. Along with most successful programs.
Then why can we not compete with Duke anymore, like we did in 1994?
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
______________________
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GuvHog

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 02:33:42 pm
so in 2016 when those holes were there your solution was that Anderson turn back time. Got it. You’re hopeless guy. I don’t live in a world of what could have been. If you make a mistake at work or in your personal life, just wishing it never happened won’t help.

The holes shouldn't have been there in the first place. They were there because of Mike's roster mismanagement. That is the point. Mike did what he had to do after Portis opted for the draft and went the JUCO route but he shouldn't have put the program in a position where he had to go after JUCOs to fill holes.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Cargill A. BullHog

Coach A is being punished by some posters because he has increased the level of recruiting and solid fundamental coaching.  Nobody thought DG was a 1 and done when he was in ElDorado, but after a year of Coach A he is suddenly on the cusp of the lottery.  Thats called solid coaching.  we're recruiting at a level not seen since the mid 90's.  Success will soon follow.
I love my Razorbacks, Coach A, Coach M, Coach VH and all the players and fans.

daprospecta

Quote from: hogsanity on March 21, 2018, 01:03:53 pm
Duke is kind of a hybrid. They have one and dones but then they have a guy like Allen who is pretty good and has been there 4 years.

As you pointed out, Mike does not sign much in the way of 1 and done or 2 and done, or NBA talent at all really, and then he has almost all of the scoring graduate at one time. Terrible roster mgt.
Qualls was NBA bound before the injury. Portis will have a lengthy career in the NBA. Gafford is a projected 1st rounder.  I believe if Hall continues to develop, he could be a NBA player in two or three years.  I disagree with this statement sir. Sorry.

steveaustin69

Quote from: daprospecta on March 21, 2018, 04:24:09 pm
Qualls was NBA bound before the injury. Portis will have a lengthy career in the NBA. Gafford is a projected 1st rounder.  I believe if Hall continues to develop, he could be a NBA player in two or three years.  I disagree with this statement sir. Sorry.

So 1 one and done. 1 two and done. "Mike does not sign much in the way of 1 and done or 2 and done"

It's a shame Qualls got injured, but he was going to be fighting to make the last spot on a team. He wasn't a lock. For your benefit, we'll say he is.

That's three NBA players in 7 years. Two of which were homegrown and expected to eventually go to the pros out of high school.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: Cargill A. BullHog on March 21, 2018, 04:15:02 pm
Coach A is being punished by some posters because he has increased the level of recruiting and solid fundamental coaching.  Nobody thought DG was a 1 and done when he was in ElDorado, but after a year of Coach A he is suddenly on the cusp of the lottery.  Thats called solid coaching.  we're recruiting at a level not seen since the mid 90's.  Success will soon follow.

I'm sorry I had a good laugh at that.

hogsanity

Quote from: daprospecta on March 21, 2018, 04:24:09 pm
Qualls was NBA bound before the injury. Portis will have a lengthy career in the NBA. Gafford is a projected 1st rounder.  I believe if Hall continues to develop, he could be a NBA player in two or three years.  I disagree with this statement sir. Sorry.

Ok, 4 players signed that are/will/might play in the NBA. 4 out of how many signees in 7 seasons?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cargill A. BullHog

Quote from: RazorPiggie on March 22, 2018, 10:49:04 am
I'm sorry I had a good laugh at that.

So you think Daniel Gafford just magically got better?  He went from solid high school, to NBA ready under Coach A.  Give credit where its due please.
I love my Razorbacks, Coach A, Coach M, Coach VH and all the players and fans.

daprospecta

Quote from: hogsanity on March 22, 2018, 11:57:03 am
Ok, 4 players signed that are/will/might play in the NBA. 4 out of how many signees in 7 seasons?
There are around 4,511 players in college basketball. I'm not sure how many viable players are overseas but there are a lot.  The NBA drafts 60 players every year. 60!  If we are sticking with four that would mean in in 7 seasons, that's 420 picks. We have provided 1% of those players.  You might think that's low but that's competing with over 350+ college basketball teams and players overseas.  If you try to use the argument that small teams don't count, when it comes to the NBA, many players come from small schools.  You don't have to win to get drafted from a smaller school. This point is moot.  You want to argue our defense slipped this year, I'll agree but don't try to just toss out any argument simply because you want our coach replaced.

HogBreath

Quote from: Cargill A. BullHog on March 22, 2018, 04:35:30 pm
So you think Daniel Gafford just magically got better?  He went from solid high school, to NBA ready under Coach A.  Give credit where its due please.
Any idea why Coach Mike didn't work his incredible development powers with Trey Thompson? 

Maybe Arlando Cook or Dustin Thomas?
I said...LSU has often been an overrated team.

That ignoramus Draconian Sanctions said..if we're overrated, why are we ranked higher than you are?

rolyat_2008

Quote from: Cargill A. BullHog on March 22, 2018, 04:35:30 pm
So you think Daniel Gafford just magically got better?  He went from solid high school, to NBA ready under Coach A.  Give credit where its due please.
Gafford is a generational talent because of his size and athleticism combo. His potential is the reason he ranges in draft projections from lottery to 20. He is not in that position because of some coached fundamentals in six months on a team that doesn't believe in scouting or preparing for an opponent. "It's all about what we do, how we play."

HawgHeadCheese

Quote from: HogBreath on March 22, 2018, 09:52:27 pm
Any idea why Coach Mike didn't work his incredible development powers with Trey Thompson? 

Maybe Arlando Cook or Dustin Thomas?
I don't think you can put Cooks development on MA due to him being a 2 yr Juco. I do think Dustin Thomas could've been good, but just couldn't get out of his own way focus wise. Trey Thompson was very solid IMO his last couple of seasons. Wasn't a super star or your typical back to the basket guy but passed great, defended inside the paint good, and shot the mid range jumper decent enough to hit it when open. I think his biggest problem was not getting in better shape. I think if he would've worked his way into a better frame he could've been a little more successful.

HawgHeadCheese

Quote from: rolyat_2008 on March 22, 2018, 10:28:23 pm
Gafford is a generational talent because of his size and athleticism combo. His potential is the reason he ranges in draft projections from lottery to 20. He is not in that position because of some coached fundamentals in six months on a team that doesn't believe in scouting or preparing for an opponent. "It's all about what we do, how we play."
I do agree that Gaffords biggest upside and the reason he's highly rated now is because of potential, but you have to give CMA credit because Gafford was highly rated coming out of HS and wasn't on any draft boards preseason. It wasn't like he was an unknown and he showed pretty well when he did play on the AAU circuit. Still wasn't predicted to be Top 15-30 in draft or even talked about as one of the best incoming freshman. So to go from unknown to possible lottery coach has to get some credit. Also just taking a deeper look I did see Gafford develop a go to over the left shoulder hook as the season went a long, had confidence enough to take some mid range jumpers and hit half of them, and showed flashes of the drop step though he didn't finish often due to lack of strength. Though a very small sample that did show he was being coached up. Progression of a skill in any sport usually happens very steadily.

FineAsSwine

Quote from: HogBreath on March 22, 2018, 09:52:27 pm
Any idea why Coach Mike didn't work his incredible development powers with Trey Thompson? 

Maybe Arlando Cook or Dustin Thomas?

Any idea why Bill Self didn't work his incredible development powers with Hunter Mickleson?
Hogs up! Covid down!

cram224

Quote from: hawg66 on March 21, 2018, 01:31:16 pm
So what would you have had him do to fill those holes?  It wasn’t ideal but the jucos gave us a nice two years.
I would have taken another true center and a real power forward. So just making the NCAAT is a nice year?

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: FineAsSwine on March 23, 2018, 06:48:08 am
Any idea why Bill Self didn't work his incredible development powers with Hunter Mickleson?
lmfao...

steveaustin69

Quote from: FineAsSwine on March 23, 2018, 06:48:08 am
Any idea why Bill Self didn't work his incredible development powers with Hunter Mickleson?

Mykhailiuk, Selden, Frank Mason, Perry Ellis, Devonte Graham, Jeff Withey, Travis Releford, Thomas Robinson, Marcus Morris, Markief Morris, Cole Aldrich, Sherron Collins, Brady Morningstar, Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Darrell Arthur, Wayne Simien, Keith Langford

List excludes one and dones.


GuvHog

Quote from: Cargill A. BullHog on March 22, 2018, 04:35:30 pm
So you think Daniel Gafford just magically got better?  He went from solid high school, to NBA ready under Coach A.  Give credit where its due please.

Daniel Gafford was underrated coming out of High school because he committed early to Arkansas. He was rated a 4 star player when he was actually a 5 star one and done level player.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 23, 2018, 08:40:06 am
Mykhailiuk, Selden, Frank Mason, Perry Ellis, Devonte Graham, Jeff Withey, Travis Releford, Thomas Robinson, Marcus Morris, Markief Morris, Cole Aldrich, Sherron Collins, Brady Morningstar, Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Darrell Arthur, Wayne Simien, Keith Langford

List excludes one and dones.



I bet its super hard to develop a 5 star athlete...smh

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on March 23, 2018, 08:53:38 am
I bet its super hard to develop a 5 star athlete...smh

Like Portis.

Frank Mason III for example was a 3 star.
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

#1 STUNNA

Quote from: steveaustin69 on March 23, 2018, 08:40:06 am
Mykhailiuk, Selden, Frank Mason, Perry Ellis, Devonte Graham, Jeff Withey, Travis Releford, Thomas Robinson, Marcus Morris, Markief Morris, Cole Aldrich, Sherron Collins, Brady Morningstar, Brandon Rush, Mario Chalmers, Darrell Arthur, Wayne Simien, Keith Langford

List excludes one and dones.


5-5*
7-4*
2-3*
Thats awesome developing... makes you wonder why he underachieves like calipari most years...

steveaustin69

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on March 23, 2018, 08:53:38 am
I bet its super hard to develop a 5 star athlete...smh

1. That's part of coaching in college basketball; getting the best players

2. 4 stars or lower per 247 (ESPN does not go back far enough): Rush, Morningstar, Aldrich, Releford, Marcus Morris, Markief Morris, Thomas Robinson, Perry Ellis, Frank Mason, Devonte Graham, Mykhailiuk

So 11 out of 18 players listed.

Letsroll1200

Quote from: rolyat_2008 on March 22, 2018, 10:28:23 pm
Gafford is a generational talent because of his size and athleticism combo. His potential is the reason he ranges in draft projections from lottery to 20. He is not in that position because of some coached fundamentals in six months on a team that doesn't believe in scouting or preparing for an opponent. "It's all about what we do, how we play."

You didn't see Daniel Gafford in high school. Nobody had this kid making it to the NBA in his first season on the Hill.