Hoops question

[TennesseeRaz]

A question:  I'm not a basher, really.  I'm an out-of-state Hog fan that can't wait to take my kids to a game while I'm visiting NWA over Christmas.  However, if Heath is modeling the Hogs on the Mich. St. style, how is it that we rarely hold an advantage on the boards?  We got clobbered tonight on the boards, again.  I watched UAB play MN last night.  Anderson's team, using Nolan's formula, was getting killed on the boards, but they were making up for it with the steals they were getting in the frenetic, pressing defense.  We don't seem to gain possessions in either one of those areas.

[Razorback88]

Actually, we forced 21 turnovers and outrebounded MSU last night.  But yes, we should have dominated the boards with our size advantage.

[Biggus Piggus]

We had 12 steals against Missouri State.  Hogs are second in SEC in steals.  Despite that the Hogs have not forced 20+ turnovers meaning the defense isn't disruptive enough.  They were pretty disruptive last night.

[JJHog]

nm

[Madgun]

Actually, we forced 21 turnovers and outrebounded MSU last night. But yes, we should have dominated the boards with our size advantage.

The paper said:

Mizzou State 48 rebounds
Arkansas       46 rebounds

[hogfankb]

Yes we should be out rebounding teams like this. I think a lot of it is that Townes/Hill are such great shot blockers and are constantly contesting shots that it takes atleast one of them out of position for the rebound.

[Madgun]

We gamble and get out of position a lot.  We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball.  The kids seem a little undisciplined. 

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter. 

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference. 

[Razorback88]

Actually, we forced 21 turnovers and outrebounded MSU last night. But yes, we should have dominated the boards with our size advantage.

The paper said:

Mizzou State 48 rebounds
Arkansas 46 rebounds

Okay.  Not saying your wrong, but espn.com says we had a 35-33 advantage.

[hogfankb]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our whole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

[hogfankb]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our hole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

I believe we lead the SEC in steals.

And that is great. I hope we keep that up. But i would be willing to not get a steal or 2 a game if it meant we defended the perimeter better. Before last night We were last in the SEC in 3 pt % given up. I think a lot of that was because of open looks created by gambling. IMO, that is why some of these teams have come back on us in the second half by hitting 3s. Last night we looked much better and hopefully we can keep the steals average up and rotate better to keep the 3 pt % down.

[Madgun]

Actually, we forced 21 turnovers and outrebounded MSU last night. But yes, we should have dominated the boards with our size advantage.

The paper said:

Mizzou State 48 rebounds
Arkansas 46 rebounds

Okay.  Not saying your wrong, but espn.com says we had a 35-33 advantage.

No biggie.  I've been wrong before. 

[Madgun]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our hole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

I believe we lead the SEC in steals.

We could possibly lead in "missed steals" as well.  Leading in steals doesn't always equate to great defense.  What happens on all the possessions we don't get steals.  Overrated stat.

[Biggus Piggus]

Official stats say

Missouri State 38, Arkansas 35

but those are meaningless as presented.

Arkansas missed 33 reboundable shots and grabbed 11 (33%).  That's unremarkable.
MSU missed 40 reboundable shots and retrieved 16 (40%).  That's really good.

Invert those, and the story is we got whipped on the boards.

[Hogs4Ever]

The Hogs should have played better in just about every area of the game.  But they did show they can take a punch and win in the crunch thanks to Ronnie Brewer.  He will be the difference in a decent season versus another losing season. :razorback:

[claycohog]

I feel we should have outrebounded them last night, but several of Missourri St.s rebounds were at the end of the game when we had no rebounders at the foul line.  If we would have hit our foul shots this would not have been a problem.

[Biggus Piggus]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our hole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

I believe we lead the SEC in steals.

We could possibly lead in "missed steals" as well. Leading in steals doesn't always equate to great defense. What happens on all the possessions we don't get steals. Overrated stat.

I wish there were a stat for gambles that turned into giving up easy baskets or free throws.  It is bad that the Hogs are averaging 10 steals a game but opponents are still averaging under 20 turnovers a game.  That's how you back into the stat you're talking about, unforced turnovers.  They're not just luck.

I also look at assists as a % of field goals.  Our opponents are averaging 56%.  We're below SEC average on this measure.  Vanderbilt, LSU, Alabama and Florida are below 50%.  To me this can be a measure of how well a team plays defense without gambling or breaking down, if the team plays mostly man.  It also identifies teams that are playing a passive style, such as a sit-back, rebound-oriented zone.  A slow team can be strong in halfcourt but weak in transition D, giving up assists that way.

Tennessee is last in the SEC in field goal % defense, weak on the boards, and also one of the worst in assists per field goal.  What do they do well?  Shoot threes, pass the ball (5 of every 8 FGs come off assists), get steals (leading the SEC), produce a great TO margin (+8, best in SEC, also league-best assist/TO ratio).

We have nobody in the top 15 of the SEC in rebounding.  That to me is an adverse selection bias in recruiting.

[pikehog]

Great we lead in rebound, the football team for a time was 1st or 2nd in rushing. Guess what, we still had a horrible season. Being good at one thing is not enough.

[hogfankb]

"We have nobody in the top 15 of the SEC in rebounding.  That to me is an adverse selection bias in recruiting."

I am a little confused on what you are trying to say here. Are you saying recruiting has caused our rebounding problem? Our rebounding is definitely a problem but I don't think it is because we aren't recruiting good big men.

[Razorod]

We aren't recruiting big men whose forte (sp?) is  rebounding. Most of our big men are tall and angular, good for blocking shots, and not the wide bodied, ferocious I'm going to knock somebody's teeth out if they get in my way of the ball rebounders. Heath hasn't really gone hard after those types or at least hasn't had much success.

[bknight33]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our whole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

He tried to go for a steal late in the game, leaving their best three point shooter wide open for three......no discipline whatsoever.  Ronnie has never been disciplined. On a positive note, I was happy to see him actually go get the ball and take those shots in the last minute and a half of the game.

[TennesseeRaz]

I think those of you who attribute our poor rebounding to our shot blocking mentality are probably right.  Thanks for the input.

[silvertip]

OK, you can have Hood & I'll take Townes.

[pigfoot]

Heath doesn't coach an aggressive, "killer instinct" type of game.  He never has.  He's a finesse coach and that will get the job done if the team is disciplined.  We don't have that kind of discipline -- at least, not yet.  With our size, we should dominate in the paint against a team like Missouri State  We didn't.  Nor did we against Texas State .  That's reason for concern.

[three]

The good we should be talking about from last night is the fact that this team was outcoached, and still managed to overcome that for a win.  Not sure how often that will continue to happen, but maybe against teams the players' are familiar with, they can make their own adjustments on the court.  Last night was yet another game in which the hogs got beat in the second half, fortunately, it was only by 9, so they got the 4 point win.  But how many times have we seen this, they are up at halftime, playing well, the opposing coach makes adjustments, and it ends up close down the stretch.  Stan was completely baffled by the zone defense MSU came out with in the second half....he said so in his press conference this morning.  You should always assume a team is going to come out with something different to start the second half if they're trailing by double figures, Stan never seems to expect change in the second half, that is why this team loses so many close games.

[silvertip]

We gamble and get out of position a lot. We don't seem to have a defender that can really sit in someone's shorts and be disruptive on the ball. The kids seem a little undisciplined.

Our half-court offense is weak & we don't have a shooter.

Hopefully, things will iron out a little by conference.

That is very true. Even brewer gambles a lot, he is just so good it usually works out for him. This has been a huge problem when we are in our zone. We try and get in a passing lane and our whole rotation gets screwed up. We do seem to be getting better every game. If we played like we did against Texas ST last night we would have lost by 15

He tried to go for a steal late in the game, leaving their best three point shooter wide open for three......no discipline whatsoever. Ronnie has never been disciplined. On a positive note, I was happy to see him actually go get the ball and take those shots in the last minute and a half of the game.

Actually, the Hawgs played a very disciplined defense last night. The GAME PLAN was to play tough vs the 3 pt shot. It worked just as planned. It was known that it would lead to some lay-ups for the Bears, but Heath figured the loss of 3pt production would more than make up for it. He was right.

Hawgs are being slightly out-rebounded due to Townes & Hill going for blocks. Between the blocks & at least as many other shots altered, it more than makes up for the small rebounding deficit.

As far as not having a "top 15 SEC rebounder"---so what? What is the significance of "15" ?  I bet if you check secsports.com for rebounding stats, you will find only 15 rebounders ranked. I bet the "15" was just the easiest # BP could come up with to grind his axe.