Sign stealing

[Snout team]

With the most recent being Michigan, sign stealing appears to have been part of athletics for years.  But what exactly occurs in this situation?

Is this simply an opposing coach or analyst watching the signs from the opposition and correlating to the plays called?  If so, how is this considered a rules violation or even unethical?

We have had and currently have coaches who tip plays based on the way a player lines up or how they set their feet.

Heck, with the hogs this year I could guess run on first and second down every possession and be right more than 50% of the time.

Or is sign stealing a situation where someone computer hacks and opposing coaches computer to gain access to private information?  If that is what is occurring I could see the uproar.

[HogBreath]

With the most recent being Michigan, sign stealing appears to have been part of athletics for years.  But what exactly occurs in this situation?

Is this simply an opposing coach or analyst watching the signs from the opposition and correlating to the plays called?  If so, how is this considered a rules violation or even unethical?

We have had and currently have coaches who tip plays based on the way a player lines up or how they set their feet.

Heck, with the hogs this year I could guess run on first and second down every possession and be right more than 50% of the time.

Or is sign stealing a situation where someone computer hacks and opposing coaches computer to gain access to private information?  If that is what is occurring I could see the uproar.

Lol...no doubt, with this year's offense, just position all 11 defenders in the 3 & 5 gaps, then rest assured, that'll be right where we try to run.  Where the d is strongest..that's where we'll attack, and if we happen to find some open area, we'll just fall down.

[Sharkansas]

With the most recent being Michigan, sign stealing appears to have been part of athletics for years.  But what exactly occurs in this situation?

Is this simply an opposing coach or analyst watching the signs from the opposition and correlating to the plays called?  If so, how is this considered a rules violation or even unethical?

We have had and currently have coaches who tip plays based on the way a player lines up or how they set their feet.

Heck, with the hogs this year I could guess run on first and second down every possession and be right more than 50% of the time.

Or is sign stealing a situation where someone computer hacks and opposing coaches computer to gain access to private information?  If that is what is occurring I could see the uproar.

My understanding is that a staffer was personally going to future opponents' games to scout, which is against the rules.  While there, the staffer would secretly film the other teams' signals and subsequent playcall.  Another staffer would then learn the signals and relay play calls to Michigan's defensive coaches in real time, allowing the coaches to call a defensive play that would be well positioned to counter the offensive play call.

[CowHog32]

Sign stealing = doing your job.. this ain't patty cakes. If it's that big of an issue then college needs to go to the NFL rules and have the OC call the play down to the QB's helmet.

[AHiD]

Sign stealing = doing your job.. this ain't patty cakes. If it's that big of an issue then college needs to go to the NFL rules and have the OC call the play down to the QB's helmet.

It's like MLB. Sign stealing is fine, but doing it in certain ways (as that staffer did) is against the rules. I do agree we should have the OC call the play directly to the QB, so I'm wondering why that's not the case.

[threeNout]

I wish our signs were worth stealing.....

[Sharkansas]

Sign stealing = doing your job.. this ain't patty cakes. If it's that big of an issue then college needs to go to the NFL rules and have the OC call the play down to the QB's helmet.

Well, then change the rules.  You can't just blatantly break the rules because you don't agree with them.

[jbcarol]

Finebaum calls out objectivity: Michigan scandal

By Dan Morrison

Michigan Wolverines are currently wrapped up in a scandal that involves impermissible scouting of opponents and stealing signs. Whatever investigation and punishment do come for the Wolverines, it won't impact the College Football Playoff this season. 

Boo Corrigan has already confirmed that.

"I'm so exhausted hearing about the committee and the battles, and I know you are even more than I am because I finally can walk away from it on Saturday and you can't," Finebaum said. "But this Michigan-Ohio State situation, it will correct itself, assuming Michigan is still around and I'm kind of tired of that story too. Although, it still remains the story of college football.

"The thing about the Michigan story, not to digress, is... what really annoys me is the lack of objectivity. I know what people say about us, and that's fine, everybody's entitled to their opinions but I can assure you that nobody at the network that we work at is being told what to say. We're not carrying the network flag.

"Michigan is a great university and they have a great football team, and if they win the national championship, that's great. Doesn't change my life, doesn't change yours. But, I don't think you can accurately say that about some other commentators who have a vested interest in Michigan being successful."

Santa Ono sent a message to Tony Petitti in support of Jim Harbaugh and saying that there needs to be an investigation and that investigation must first play out before any action is taken.

[jbcarol]

Wes Rucker
@wesrucker247
This whole Ryan Day/Michigan thing feels a bit like (Phat) Phillip Fulmer/Alabama. Time is a flat circle where nothing really changes.

Let's hope this doesn't get as nasty as Fulmer and Bama got. Hate in sports is fun. But there are lines.
12:05 AM · Nov 7, 2023
·

[jbcarol]

Santa addresses support amid sign-stealing investigation

Kaiden Smith

The last few days have been eventful for Michigan, as the Wolverines were able to beat their first-ranked opponent of the season on Saturday with a 24-15 win over Penn State to remain undefeated on the season.

The Wolverines secured the win without their head coach Jim Harbaugh, who was serving a suspension amid Michigan's current sign-stealing investigation that's become one of the most fascinating off-the-field storylines in recent college football history.

While Michigan has been able to handle business on the field, off the field it's been a rollercoaster for the program. And following their win on Saturday, Michigan president Santa Ono spoke on the support he's receiving during the program's troublesome times surrounding their current circumstances.


Santa Ono
@SantaJOno
Countless members of the University of Michigan family have reached out to me over the weekend and I wanted to express my appreciation. Like any community, we face our share of challenges and adversity. There have been many such moments in our history.  But as our team showed so clearly yesterday, we will respond to any challenge head on with a conviction to do better and to emerge even stronger. Go Blue! 〽️
3:47 PM · Nov 12, 2023
·

[@Blue-Chip]

So now we know why Arkansas has played so bad this year, opponents been stealing signs!

[SMB Hogfan]

Wes Rucker
@wesrucker247
This whole Ryan Day/Michigan thing feels a bit like (Phat) Phillip Fulmer/Alabama. Time is a flat circle where nothing really changes.

Let's hope this doesn't get as nasty as Fulmer and Bama got. Hate in sports is fun. But there are lines.
12:05 AM · Nov 7, 2023
·

I've thought from the first, that's the whole thing in a nutshell. Ryan Day is a sleazeball. Friend of mine has a grandson that was considering OSU. Suffice to say the family talked him out of it. He took the high road and is at Purdue, which isn't easy.

[jbcarol]

Bruce Feldman: Expect 'a lot more collateral damage' from Michigan sign-steal investigation

Barkley Truax

Michigan fired linebackers coach Chris Partridge after already having let go staffer Connor Stalions, who purchased tickets to future Wolverine opponent's games to film their sidelines.

Head coach Jim Harbaugh is suspended from coaching on game day throughout the rest of the regular season — and college football insider Bruce Feldman believes this is only the tip of the iceberg:

"In the last 24 hours, linebackers coach Chris Partridge has been fired. I'm told he was fired for his role in interfering in the investigation. The sources say that we should expect a lot more collateral damage to come from this.

"The NCAA is just intensifying the investigation, even though Jim Harbaugh's punishment now with the Big Ten has been handled. Don't be surprised if there is more fallout coming from the personnel side at Michigan."

In an attempt to regain some sort of normalcy for Michigan during the home stretch of their third consecutive College Football Playoff run, a hearing was set to take place on Friday before the Maryland game in an attempt to file a temporary restraining order against the Big Ten Conference, which would have allowed him to coach.

The hearing ultimately did not happen, and Michigan has been making shifts on its coaching staff accordingly, including offensive coordinator Sherrone Moore taking over as acting head coach and Rick Minter sliding into the linebackers coach spot in the wake of Partridge's departure.

"I'm told things really changed late Wednesday night after Michigan brass learned that the Big Ten had really damning evidence against Michigan," Feldman continued. "That's when the Wolverines backed down and agreed to this suspension. Now, yesterday morning, Yahoo Sports reported that a prominent Michigan booster, who is known to the NCAA as Uncle T, had allegedly helped fund Connor Stallion's signal-stealing scheme.

"I am told though that he has since denied it and we'll see where this goes moving forward, but, obviously, a big 180 for the Wolverine since a few days ago."

For now, the Wolverines must focus on Saturday afternoon's task at hand.

[jbcarol]

College GameDay signs: Best of Week 13 from Michigan
Andrew Olson | 10 minutes ago

[jbcarol]

Bobby Petrino calls out Clemson over topic of sign-stealing

Paul Harvey | 4 minutes ago

Bobby Petrino is all on board with getting in-helmet communication in college football. He also reserved some interesting comments for Clemson during his introductory press conference at Arkansas.

On Thursday, head coach Sam Pittman and Petrino met with the media to discuss Petrino's return as the program's offensive coordinator. Petrino was asked about the future of signaling in college football, and the new OC gave his endorsement for in-helmet devices.

"Yeah, I think they should have done that a long time ago," said Petrino in reference to in-helmet communication devices.

As for the sign-stealing scandal at Michigan, Petrino admitted to being oblivious about the details. However, he referenced playing at Clemson with the understanding the Tigers would "have your signals" ahead of time.

"I don't know anything about Michigan and what they did or anything about that. I honestly didn't pay any attention to it, but I do know when you went and played Clemson that they were going to have your signals," Petrino claimed.

[jbcarol]

Sign Stealing: Bama alters CFP semifinals prep, film review

By Matt Connolly

Alabama is preparing for its Rose Bowl matchup with Michigan in a unique way due to the Wolverines' sign-stealing allegations.

Alabama players are not watching film on their tablets as they prepare for the Wolverines after being instructed not to by the Alabama coaching staff, according to Bond, Isaiah Bond.

"The app we record film off... I guess they were looking at other peoples' play calls, hand signals, stuff like that," Bond said, according to Tony Garcia.

Number 7

[jbcarol]

Jim Harbaugh finally responds to practice film hacking accusations

By Michael Casagrande |

The story of the week -- a spawn of Michigan's sign-stealing scandal -- involves vague speculation of practice film hacking.

Alabama players on Wednesday said they stopped watching film on their personal iPads because of "what Michigan is known for," running back Jase McClellan said.

Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh met with reporters Saturday for the first time since those comments were made at the Rose Bowl media day. He was asked about those comments from multiple Alabama players.

"I don't know if somebody said that," Harbaugh said Saturday morning in Pasadena, "but there's been rumors out there about the cloud and the Catapult system. Our team is taking the same precautions."

Harbaugh was then pressed on where he heard there could be a security breach.

"Rumor," he said with a shrug. "People started talking about that. I know very little about how that works."

Catapult, the company who hosts the cloud system that stores, responded to questions Friday from AL.com about allegations of security breaches.

"We are aware of the ongoing investigation of the alleged unauthorized access to NCAA football video footage," A statement from a company spokesperson to AL.com reads. "We have conducted an internal investigation and have not found any security breach in our systems."

Harbaugh on Saturday said he had no solid evidence of any practice film hacking.

"No, I think our university said we got hacked but I don't think that had anything to do with it. Please know, I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I really don't know."

Alabama and Michigan will meet in the Rose Bowl semifinal at 4 p.m. CT Monday for a spot in the following week's CFP national championship game.

This poast will be updated.

[jbcarol]

It was as if Michigan knew what Bama would run on 4th down.

[GolfNut57]

Would there be as big an uproar if it was Saban that was accused of sign stealing? Just asking.

[jbcarol]

JJ McCarthy finally clarifies his '80 percent' comment regarding sign stealing across CFB

by:
Andrew Graham
•

Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy on Thursday clarified some remarks he made on Wednesday about sign-stealing and trying to catch up to the competition, saying that he was not implying the Wolverines went around the rules to make up ground.

He had also said on Wednesday that he suspects around 80 percent of college football programs engage in legal sign stealing, an assessment that he did not back down from. McCarthy, who was asked about the subject on Wednesday on a conference call with reporters, singled out rival Ohio State and said that the Wolverines suspected their signs were known on the opposite sideline in 2019-20.

He stated that "we had get up to the level that they were at, and we had to make it an even playing field" which many took as an admission that players and coaches at Michigan knew about the impermissible scouting done by former staffer Connor Stalions to steal signs.

[riccoar]

It was as if Michigan knew what Bama would run on 4th down.

Right.  Who could simply guess the correct defense on a super complex trick play like that??

[jbcarol]

Stalions finally reacts to Michigan's national championship win

Paul Harvey

Stalions' name is known throughout the country as the former UM analyst at the center of an ongoing NCAA investigation into Jim Harbaugh's program. Stalions allegedly orchestrated a major in-person scouting ring throughout the country, a violation of NCAA rules.

Shortly after the investigation began, Stalions scrubbed his social media accounts and deactivated his X.

He would eventually resign from his post during the season.

Though no longer with the program, Stalions made waves last week while in attendance for Michigan's Rose Bowl victory over Alabama. Now, he's reacting to the CFP National Championship after reactivating:

https://twitter.com/cpstalions/status/1744578600697778307

[jbcarol]

Goodman: Why steal signs when you can steal players?

Legalized cheating in college football hit a new level of desperation this offseason thanks to the rivalry between Ohio State and Michigan.

When Michigan won the national championship under scandalous circumstances, everyone in college football knew that Ohio State would have an answer. The Buckeyes responded by raiding the Deep South for the SEC's best players. In a stunning flex of financial clout, Ohio State acquired Ole Miss All-American running back Quinshon Judkins and Alabama safety Caleb Downs, the national freshman of the year.

As an encore, the Buckeyes then hauled away Alabama quarterback Julian Sayin before fans could even watch him compete in his first spring scrimmage. Sayin was the Crimson Tide's five-star quarterback prospect for the recruiting class of 2024. Not anymore. Now he's the future of Ohio State's offense.

If Ohio State doesn't win a national championship in the next two years, then the school will fire Ryan Day. Just a prediction.

Former Alabama coach Nick Saban retired at the right time. Welcome to the new world of college football. For old-school fans of the game, it's a place where things like school pride, traditions, rivalries, conferences and pageantry have gone to die. For TV executives, it's a gold mine. For investors looking to profit off the chaos of an emerging new market, it's a greenfield opportunity that represents billions of dollars.

Watching Michigan coach Jim Harbaugh win the Big Ten, the Rose Bowl and then the national championship during a season highlighted by a pair of three-game suspensions and an investigation into sign stealing will do that to a guy.

Why steal signs when you can steal players?

Why limit the possibilities?

[jbcarol]

Thamel: Jim Harbaugh return to NFL makes it 'difficult' to predict Michigan discipline for NCAA cases

by:
Dan Morrison

As Jim Harbaugh leaves Michigan for the NFL, he also leaves behind questions about multiple NCAA investigations, both of which he served suspensions for during the 2023 season. That included violations related to recruiting and the sign-stealing scandal.

"Well, there are two ongoing investigations," Pete Thamel said. "The first one had really targeted Jim Harbaugh for punishment, in part, because he misled NCAA investigators. Remember, there was that four game negotiated resolution that the NCAA did not end up agreeing with, which led everyone to speculate that Harbaugh would serve some kind of suspension if he was Michigan's coach to start this year.

"Then, there's obviously the Connor Stalions investigation to illicit sign-stealing in opposing venues. Without Harbaugh, being exposed to a Level 1 in that Stalions case because he's obviously not there, it's difficult to say what the NCAA is going to do," Thamel said.

"I'm skeptical just with recent precedent that Michigan would get punished with some kind of postseason ban or the players who didn't participate in any of this kind of stuff would get punished. Where that has NCAA land is always difficult to tell. NCAA investigations tend to change week to week."

At least the old excuse of not punishing the players just the admin goes out the door with the current immediate transfer mandate -- at least for those players who may love the green more than the maize and blue.

[jbcarol]

Otzelberger addresses report of Iowa State spying on Kansas State huddles

by:
Griffin McVeigh
•

Iowa State should be celebrating right now, coming off two huge wins. The latest came against Kansas on Saturday in Hilton.

It's what occurred against Kansas State earlier in the week, with reports claiming the Cyclones were spying into the Wildcats huddle.

Otzelberger addressed the situation following the Kansas win, saying they are far from true. He did not seem too thrilled to be discussing the matter, being offended by the fact that Iowa State was even in this position.

"Ludacris rumors earlier this week that somehow, we were trying to gain an advantage looking into our opponent's huddles," Otzelberger said. "It's an affront to our players, our fans, and to me. It's not who I am, it's not what our program is about, and I am angry that somebody would even make that suggestion."

[jbcarol]

Sherrone describes how Michigan is approaching ongoing NCAA investigation
by:
Nick Kosko
•

Michigan head coach Sherrone Moore had to address how the Wolverines would handle the ongoing NCAA investigation.

The program was accused of illegally stealing signs and former head coach Jim Harbaugh ended up suspended the final three games of the year amid that investigation. However, it didn't prevent Michigan from going undefeated and winning the national title.

But despite Harbaugh off to the Los Angeles Chargers and Moore taking over, it's not something that's going away immediately.

"That's something that's out there," Moore said on the Rich Eisen Show. "We don't know what's going to happen with it. And we're just going to take it day by day. You know, obviously, I think the President made a great statement and talked about how, you know, our players and we won it fair and square. Just like coach said, I think we're innocent, and we'll just keep trucking along and attacking every day. And that's what we're gonna do."

In essence, Moore and Michigan are definitely looking forward to putting that part of 2023 in the rearview

"The biggest thing people want to know is how I'm going to run the program compared to Coach," Moore said. "I'm going to run it my way. We're still going to be tough, we're still going to be smart, we're going to be dependable, we're going to be relentless in everything we do, continue the enthusiasm.

"The energy, for me, is a big piece of it. I want to be someone that the kids that can rely on, that can be a vessel for [them], to be open for them. My philosophy in coaching is, I coach hard, but I love harder — and they're going to feel that."

Moore made it clear he can't do things the way Harbaugh did to a 'T.'

[jbcarol]

Neal Brown on sideline communication, preventing sign-stealing: 'They look like clown shows'
by:
Nick Schultz
•

For the last two springs and in last year's Duke's Mayo Bowl, West Virginia got a sneak peek at what life would be like with in-game technology. NCAA rules prevented the use of headsets to communicate with players on the field, although there was some movement toward changing that.

With that technology, teams would be able to stop relaying signs the "old fashioned way" by using different signals and pictures from the sidelines. It's a stark contrast to the NFL where quarterbacks have speakers in their helmets and coaches relay play calls from the sidelines.

WVU head coach Neal Brown pointed out the need to "clean up" the sidelines in college and streamline the play-calling process.

"I just think, if you look at our college sidelines, they look like clown shows right now," Brown told Andy Staples on Andy Staples On3. "Different colored shirts, a bunch of people. The staff have become so big and there's people that are just designed to do that. People have real systems. And so I think man, we need to clean that up.

"I've been a huge proponent of this, probably for the last three years, is the technology's there. It makes no sense for us not to be able to do it. The helmet manufacturers are okay with it. We used it in the bowl game. It was very good for us. I could talk directly, as the play-caller, I talked directly to the quarterback. Our defense coordinator talked directly to the linebackers and safeties. The thing that probably surprised me, I knew the benefits offensively, how it'd benefit us. But it really helped us defensively."

The idea of using technology gained steam after the Michigan situation came to light, and the NCAA allowed it for Bowl Season in 2023. However, Brown argued stealing signals was just one part of the issue.

The bigger problem, he said, was the in-person scouting ahead of time.

"To me, I think one of the issues we have in college football – and it was exposed by when you saw the Michigan stuff with the signals," Brown said. "And to me, the sign stealing wasn't as big an issue as the advanced scouting. I think that kind of got lost. Like, I think everybody's probably trying to steal signs, signals at some point ... in games. But the thing that took it over the top was the supposed filming, I don't know, and the advanced scouting piece. That's what made it a little different."

Neal Brown: Bowl game technology rules were different than the NFL's

[jbcarol]

Michigan receives notice of violations from NCAA
Paul Harvey |

Michigan has received an official notice of violations related to the tenure of former head coach Jim Harbaugh.

Tuesday's notice from the NCAA is related to violations that occurred during 2020. The sign-stealing investigation centered around the program and analyst Connor Stalions is still forthcoming.

Michigan and 5 current or former football coaches reached an agreement on recruiting violations and coaching activities by noncoaching staff members. One former coach was not involved in the agreement, and that case is being separated and will be handled on an individual basis.

The violations include impermissible in-person recruiting contacts during a dead period, impermissible tryouts and the program exceeding the number of allowed countable coaches when non-coaching staff members engaged in on- and off-field coaching activities.

[hobhog]

Michigan receives notice of violations from NCAA
Paul Harvey |

Literally LOL. Not because it's Michigan, but because the frivolity of NCAA trying to enforce anything in the slimy world of college sports these days.

[jbcarol]

Schlossnagle alleges SEC baseball cheating scandal:

'There's a school in our league that got busted'
Spenser Davis |

In an interview with TexAgs, Schlossnagle was asked about sign-stealing in college baseball and how it has evolved with the introduction of new technology. Schlossnagle alleged that a SEC baseball team was caught using a live video feed in their home dugout during games this season —

"There are ways we could wire our dugout to get the live feed," he said. "And there's a school in our league that got busted. I don't know if people know it yet. I'm not going to reveal it. But they know, they had a live feed going to the dugout all year. And they're hitting .306 at home and .206 on the road.

"I don't know. So, to me, that would be the line. Somehow ... keeping live information from going directly to the dugout."

It's unclear which program Schlossnagle is speaking about, but perhaps the league office will have something to say

Georgia relief pitcher Christian Mracna was seemingly caught applying a foreign substance to his glove before entering the game against A&M last weekend.

"Certainly appears that way," Schlossnagle told The Associated Press when asked about Mracna. "It's part of the game ... wish we would've caught it."

Mracna pitched the final 2 innings of Georgia's 5-4 win over Texas A&M in the series finale. He allowed just one hit and struck out 6

A&M is amongst the favorites to win the College World Series in 2024.

[jbcarol]

Gene Smith claims Michigan wins over Ohio State should have an asterisk amid sign-stealing scandal

by: Wade Peery
•

Michigan sign-stealing scandal drew a countless number of headlines this past fall, dominating sports talk radio, media, and television. The Wolverines were still able to take care of business this fall, despite all of the outside noise and distractions, bringing home the 2024 National Championship. And they've taken care of business against Ohio State in the past three seasons. On Thursday evening, Buckeyes athletic director Gene Smith made the claim that the Wolverines' wins over THE^TM Ohio State should come with an asterisk.