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Kirk Herbstreit says the CFP is redefining what fans see as a successful season

Started by MuskogeeHogFan, February 24, 2016, 05:48:49 am

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MuskogeeHogFan

Herbstreit feels that fans are focused too much on making the play offs and that if a team doesn't make it, they aren't considered to be successful. He used to think that we would eventually go to an 8 team play-off. Now he thinks that would be a bad idea.

"I was a guy that thought we'd eventually go to eight," Herbstreit said on SiriusXM College Sports Nation. "This is the first time I really felt that fans, even maybe players, that there was a focus for 15 weeks for the four.... Then the teams are decided, and it was like fanbases getting frustrated with a 12-1 season or an 11-2 season, 'Ugh, going to the Rose Bowl, the Fiesta Bowl.' It's like, what have we created where fans are so focused on the four, that if their team still has a great year and goes to a Jan. 1, they're left frustrated?

You can see the rest of his comments here:

http://coachingsearch.com/article?a=News-Notes--Quotes--Feb-23
Go Hogs Go!

HOGINTENNESSEE


 

MultipleScoreGasms


MuskogeeHogFan

My question is, wouldn't it (fan expectations, disappointment, etc) be the same regardless of which system was used to select bowl teams that were competing for a NC? Were fans any less disappointed under the BCS system?
Go Hogs Go!

SooiecidetillNuttgone

This is why I wasn't too keen on a playoff system to begin with.

The college b-ball regular season is basically irrelevant beyond getting into ''The Dance''.

With fewer games, I don't see true irrelevancy happening to the football season, but I have wondered what effect it would have.

Lastly, I'm not comfortable with a playoff determining a winner.
The effects of a month off, a bad game, a bad seeding, a bad matchup, etc eradicates the team that may truly be the best team that year.

You can't always convince me the better team always wins.
Ever heard of upsets, the saying, ''Any given Saturday/Sunday, etc?
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

Mike_e

Changed if for the rest of college football maybe, same ole same ole for the SEC.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

SemperHawg

Quote from: SooiecidetillNuttgone on February 24, 2016, 06:48:11 am
This is why I wasn't too keen on a playoff system to begin with.

The college b-ball regular season is basically irrelevant beyond getting into ''The Dance''.

With fewer games, I don't see true irrelevancy happening to the football season, but I have wondered what effect it would have.

Lastly, I'm not comfortable with a playoff determining a winner.
The effects of a month off, a bad game, a bad seeding, a bad matchup, etc eradicates the team that may truly be the best team that year.

You can't always convince me the better team always wins.
Ever heard of upsets, the saying, ''Any given Saturday/Sunday, etc?
To your point, the New York Giants have a couple of Super Bowl rings from years where they weren't the best team in the league and just got hot and had some good things happen at the right time.


SooiecidetillNuttgone

Quote from: SemperHawg on February 24, 2016, 07:15:40 am
To your point, the New York Giants have a couple of Super Bowl rings from years where they weren't the best team in the league and just got hot and had some good things happen at the right time.



Absolutely true.
Remember the Falcons upsetting the Vikings to go to the Super Bowl.
Horrible upset.  Bad corresponding Super Bowl.
His response to me:
Quote from: hawginbigd1 on October 13, 2016, 11:48:33 am
So everyone one of the nationalized incidents were justified? There is no race problems with policing? If that is what you believe.....well bless your heart, it must be hard going through life with the obstacles you must have to overcome. Do they send a bus to come pick you up?

BRHogfan

Quote from: SooiecidetillNuttgone on February 24, 2016, 07:33:51 am
Absolutely true.
Remember the Falcons upsetting the Vikings to go to the Super Bowl.
Horrible upset.  Bad corresponding Super Bowl.

The Falcons were 14-2 WTH, it's not like they were 8-8, and they lost to the defending Super Bowl Champions and John Elways.  Geez.

DeltaBoy

I see what Herb is talking about and I agree many college fans only care if they get in the final four.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

Hogs run wild

So it's a successful season if you don't win the national championship, but win the cotton? No, the goal each year is to win the championship. It hasn't changed. The rules may have changed, but the goal remains the same. What I like now, is that the overlooked team has a shot.
We all got a chicken duck woman thing waiting for us.

rhames

Quote from: Hogs run wild on February 24, 2016, 08:44:28 am
So it's a successful season if you don't win the national championship, but win the cotton? No, the goal each year is to win the championship. It hasn't changed. The rules may have changed, but the goal remains the same. What I like now, is that the overlooked team has a shot.


I disagree. "Successful season " is relative to the team you are analyzing.


There are 120 something division one teams. Are you saying that only one, less than one percent, has a successful season?


Do agree with the overlooked team has a shot and that's why I love it.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

bigdaddyhawg

Fans are nothing more than typical people these days: they want it all and they want it now!!

The old saying "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" is kind of the deal for fans.  Bama fans are going to be disappointed every year they DON'T win a NC, maybe OSU fans, too.

For most fans, they want their team to play well and win some big games.  Hog fans bitch too much about our losses, but that's probably most fans.  But Hog fans aren't worried about the CFP I don't think, nor do most fans think about that much.

And the CFP hasn't diminished the season in the least.  IMO it's made it even stronger.  Last fall OM fans, and LSU fans (for a while), and UF fans (for a while) all had visions of their teams being in the playoff, and I think it made their defeats along the way even more crushing to those fans.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

 

code red

The 4 team playoff makes every game count.  I for one think this is the way to go....with 8 it will come down to a popularity contest and a grueling season for many teams.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

hoghiker

One nice thing about being a Hog fan is that we can get pretty stoked about 8-9 wins. 10 wins very nice. If we get in the playoffs, I'll be super happy but not that disappointed if we don't.
.

rhames

Quote from: code red on February 24, 2016, 09:32:24 am
The 4 team playoff makes every game count.  I for one think this is the way to go....with 8 it will come down to a popularity contest and a grueling season for many teams.


Not really if the power 5 Champs have auto bids and then 3 at large. Not in my options anyway.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

bigdaddyhawg

Quote from: rhames on February 24, 2016, 09:48:07 am

Not really if the power 5 Champs have auto bids and then 3 at large. Not in my options anyway.

When one loss likely knocks you out of the playoff discussion (for most teams) every game counts.

And for those handful of teams that can lose one game and still get in, all those games still count, because they don't want to lose the second, AND because they want the best seed they can get.

Conference championships still have tremendous value to fans, and as long as that's the case every game will count.
Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.  Abraham Lincoln, 1858

wholehog92

The fans had the same issue under the BCS, this has had no impact at all on that.  If anything it's helped double the number of happy fans from 2 teams to 4.

I like it at 4 because you can have 1 loss and still make it.  You have to have to have an elite season to make the cut.  Historically, even in the BCS era and on back, I can't find a season where the team finishing 5th in the rankings deserved a shot at the title.

Every game very much matters under this system.  Even if your team is out of the running, your game can affect who gets in.  IE AR beating Ol Miss last year helped Bama immensely.  Our game mattered in the national championship and we both finished middle of the pack in our conference.

It's the off season and Herb is trying to say something everyone will disagree with to create discussion.
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RyeHogFan

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on February 24, 2016, 09:18:24 am
Fans are nothing more than typical people these days: they want it all and they want it now!!

Soooo, they're Queen fans?


code red

Quote from: rhames on February 24, 2016, 09:48:07 am

Not really if the power 5 Champs have auto bids and then 3 at large. Not in my options anyway.
So your going to ask teams to play up to 16 games?
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

rhames

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

rhames

Quote from: bigdaddyhawg on February 24, 2016, 10:55:19 am
When one loss likely knocks you out of the playoff discussion (for most teams) every game counts.

And for those handful of teams that can lose one game and still get in, all those games still count, because they don't want to lose the second, AND because they want the best seed they can get.

Conference championships still have tremendous value to fans, and as long as that's the case every game will count.


The not really wasn't referencing making games count but disagreeing with 8 team play off.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

code red

I think 4 is fine 6 max.....top seeds get a bye.  The logistics IMHO are overwhelming in a 8 team playoff.  Tickets....bowls.....fan expense.  Plus....NFL is on Sunday....lets not move it to Saturdays as well.  If you lose your first 2 games...you shouldn't be in the playoff.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

rhames

Quote from: code red on February 24, 2016, 11:48:51 am
I think 4 is fine 6 max.....top seeds get a bye.  The logistics IMHO are overwhelming in a 8 team playoff.  Tickets....bowls.....fan expense.  Plus....NFL is on Sunday....lets not move it to Saturdays as well.  If you lose your first 2 games...you shouldn't be in the playoff.


I think 4 is fine. Just do not think it would be a popularity contest or even have to be filled with 2 loss teams. Some years yes. This year it wouldn't have been outside of Stanford.
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

 

code red

"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

rhames

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

Wildhog

Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

IronHog

The problem is 5 conferences for 4 slots.


Get rid of the big 12 and let the conference championship games be the first round of the playoffs.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: IronHog on February 24, 2016, 12:04:58 pm
The problem is 5 conferences for 4 slots.


Get rid of the big 12 and let the conference championship games be the first round of the playoffs.
Well think about the conference championship games and in reality they are the first round. Lose there and you're almost guaranteed NOT to be in the hunt for the NCG. While winning obviously doesn't absolutely assure you a slot in the "big dance", IMO it's better for the most part than what we've traditionally had.

code red

If you go to 8 your more than likely going to need to get rid of the championship games.  But...I agree there is no need for 8 with the conference championship games.  Those venues are as good as a bowl games.  If you lose....your out.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

TNRazorbacker

Nonsense. The more teams vying for a playoff spot the more excitement there is across the board.  To me his argument just lends weight to more playoff teams. Id be more more excited about my 9 win team getting into the playoffs than my 11 win team doing a one and done in the Cotton Bowl.

Atlhogfan1

This is an Ohio State type fan base viewpoint.  They can see it as a failure.  Baylor can see it as a disappointment with their injury hampered season.  OM missed a real opportunity.  Most of the rest of us weren't in serious contention. 


4 playoff teams are more than enough. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

PorkSoda

a successful season is meeting the teams potential.

very few teams have the potential to make the playoffs.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

PorkSoda

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on February 24, 2016, 02:36:37 pm
This is an Ohio State type fan base viewpoint.  They can see it as a failure.  Baylor can see it as a disappointment with their injury hampered season.  OM missed a real opportunity.  Most of the rest of us weren't in serious contention. 


4 playoff teams are more than enough. 
no doubt.  the only reason it is 4 in the first place is the off chance an undefeated P5 team is at #3.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

RollHogTide

I completely agree with Kirk Herbstreit as a fan, but I also believe that many teams feel the same way.  Times have changed not only for the fans, but the players.  IMO - I believe that many players in bowl games are more concerned with injury than winning.  In addition to the fear of injury, I also believe there is a small percentage of players that could care less about playing in a non-playoff bowl. 

hogsanity

Quote from: code red on February 24, 2016, 09:32:24 am
The 4 team playoff makes every game count.  I for one think this is the way to go....with 8 it will come down to a popularity contest and a grueling season for many teams.

Actually, it makes very few games count. Once your team is out of playoff contention, none of their games really count.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hawghiggs

 I hate the playoffs. The only thing wrong with the BCS system was that it didn't incorporate more bowls. Imagine what it would have been like if the Cotton and Peach bowls had been part of the rotation.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: hogsanity on February 24, 2016, 04:24:37 pm
Actually, it makes very few games count. Once your team is out of playoff contention, none of their games really count.
Absolutely. Now only one team can have a successful season.

hogsanity

Quote from: Hawghiggs on February 24, 2016, 04:26:32 pm
I hate the playoffs. The only thing wrong with the BCS system was that it didn't incorporate more bowls. Imagine what it would have been like if the Cotton and Peach bowls had been part of the rotation.

The problem with with the playoff is that there is no way to truly earn your way in. Yes, you pretty much can't have more than 1 loss, but if say 6-8 teams all have 1 loss, people still pick the playoff teams.

The beauty of the nfl playoffs is that there is a set criteria to win your way in. Yes, the division format does sometimes allow pretty bad teams to get in and host a home game, but the way to get in is defined for each team before the season starts. That is not how the college playoff is. All we really have is the bcs except the top 4 teams actually play games against each other then we get the nc game.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawganatic

Quote from: SooiecidetillNuttgone on February 24, 2016, 06:48:11 am

Lastly, I'm not comfortable with a playoff determining a winner.
The effects of a month off, a bad game, a bad seeding, a bad matchup, etc eradicates the team that may truly be the best team that year.

You can't always convince me the better team always wins.
Ever heard of upsets, the saying, ''Any given Saturday/Sunday, etc?

I'm not sure what you are going for here.  Are you advocating going back to having the polls choose who the champ is? 

Are you wanting a team awarded the championship even if they are upset in the NC game?

HiggiePiggy

I love the playoff system. Fans are still pretty damn happy when teams get to big bowl games. Heck ones that are upset they didn't get into the playoff are teams like Ohio state when they were expecting to get back with what they had returning there and didn't.  I am pretty sure majority of fans were pretty happy with the results of their team.  Heck we have fans for Arkansas that are happy with the results this year.  I'm ok with it, but was expecting a 9 win season like many others were. 

Playoffs isn't hurting anything.  What it needs is more teams in it.   

I would love to see an actual poll of the college football teams and how happy were they with the results of their team and if they were happy they made it to a bowl game.

I'm sure a lot of fans from Ohio state wouldn't be too happy, but I bet Michigan fans were pretty damn excited to win a bowl game against Florida.  Kirk Herbstreit is in the minority I believe and probably didn't actually do much research to come up with his decision to not like the playoffs. 
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Mike_e

Kirk is the guy that would be most likely to be fired in a corporate downsizing.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

12247

I wanted an 8 team playoff but have reconsidered and don't see it as must have now.  I wouldn't mind the 5 through 8 rated teams playing their playoff to determine their own spot selection for 5 through 8.  The 5 through 8 teams are still really good teams and great football could be had there.

There is maybe 4 or more teams that will say they could have defended the 3 spot in this past years CFP better than Mich St. and they likely are correct.  So its still a crap shoot on who gets in to some point.  Wouldn't mind seeing places 9 through 12 playing to be certain of the complete top 10.  Finishing in the top 10 for the year is quite an honor.  I do not believe any 2 loss team should be allowed in the top 4.   I know LSU won it all with 2 losses once.

PorkSoda

Quote from: hogsanity on February 24, 2016, 04:29:49 pm
The problem with with the playoff is that there is no way to truly earn your way in. Yes, you pretty much can't have more than 1 loss, but if say 6-8 teams all have 1 loss, people still pick the playoff teams.

The beauty of the nfl playoffs is that there is a set criteria to win your way in. Yes, the division format does sometimes allow pretty bad teams to get in and host a home game, but the way to get in is defined for each team before the season starts. That is not how the college playoff is. All we really have is the bcs except the top 4 teams actually play games against each other then we get the nc game.
maybe we should have a 64 team national playoff for High schools as well.

the reality is, like high school, the NCAA is just a stepping stone to the NFL.  we don't actually need to name a national champion.  but its fun for the fans. 
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: 12247 on February 24, 2016, 06:06:39 pm
I wanted an 8 team playoff but have reconsidered and don't see it as must have now.  I wouldn't mind the 5 through 8 rated teams playing their playoff to determine their own spot selection for 5 through 8.  The 5 through 8 teams are still really good teams and great football could be had there.

There is maybe 4 or more teams that will say they could have defended the 3 spot in this past years CFP better than Mich St. and they likely are correct.  So its still a crap shoot on who gets in to some point.  Wouldn't mind seeing places 9 through 12 playing to be certain of the complete top 10.  Finishing in the top 10 for the year is quite an honor.  I do not believe any 2 loss team should be allowed in the top 4.   I know LSU won it all with 2 losses once.

I disagree with Herb, I think there needs to be 8 teams. 16 is too many, 4 is too few.
Go Hogs Go!

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: PorkSoda on February 24, 2016, 06:23:18 pm
maybe we should have a 64 team national playoff for High schools as well.

the reality is, like high school, the NCAA is just a stepping stone to the NFL.  we don't actually need to name a national champion.  but its fun for the fans. 

Considering how much money football brings in there is a huge reason for a national champion.
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

LRAFBHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on February 24, 2016, 06:38:00 am
My question is, wouldn't it (fan expectations, disappointment, etc) be the same regardless of which system was used to select bowl teams that were competing for a NC? Were fans any less disappointed under the BCS system?

We, Hog fan base, have been disappointed since 1964.  If we, like Alabama, had been a team in the CFP for the past two years , and won no title, there would be disappointment wide, wide spread.  This means, soeaks:

Get to work and get enough athletes to compete in the SEC.  Recruiting and HIGH ranking recruiting classes.  That is the road to CFP championship(s).  THE ONLY ROAD!!

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: hogsanity on February 24, 2016, 04:24:37 pm
Actually, it makes very few games count. Once your team is out of playoff contention, none of their games really count.
Well your team might be officially eliminated but that certainly doesn't mean you can't do a major "number" on someone still contending. I give you exhibit one: the 2015 Ole Miss/Arkansas game winner. In that respect all games potentially count.

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: Hawghiggs on February 24, 2016, 04:27:30 pm
Absolutely. Now only one team can have a successful season.
Again, depends on what you mean by successful. Yeah, yeah I realize the ultimate goal of every team is to try to win the NC each year. However, let me present a "for instance". Say the Hogs were to win an SECC, go into the playoffs, win and move on to the NC game but come up short. Do you honestly believe that most of our fans would consider the season a total failure? Of course we'd naturally be disappointed; however, to consider the whole year to be a total "washout" and unsuccessful is utterly ridiculous.

Rzbakfromwaybak


To me.....it won't be a true playoff, until 8 teams are involved.  In most years, there will be too many teams that could win it, that never make the cut at 4.
Arkansas born, Arkansas bred, when I die I'll be a Razorback dead.