Are we currently still 30 program?

[RME]

I agree

Based on the criteria presented in the article, I agree as well.

We are not at the moment, but we have the potential to be top 20 if things are going well.

[Atlhogfan1]

Michigan: 5 conference titles in the same time span (3 shared)
Auburn: 2 conference titles in the same span
Nebraska: 3 conference titles in same span
VT: 7 conference titles in same span (before you try to chalk that up purely to the Big East: 1) let me remind you one of your teams up there (Miami) was in the Big East 2) 4 of those 7 were in the ACC)

Do you have to win a national title in any given decade to be considered a national power? If so, there are currently only 7 national powers. 

You listed thirteen teams; half of which were not nearly as consistently good for SEVENTEEN YEARS. Who are the next two to round out a top 15? I personally consider perennially top 15 and winning conference championships to be a national power.  If you do not consider a consistently top 15 program with 7 conference championships and 8 BCS bowl appearances in a 17 year period a national power, then, again, there is nothing i can do for you.

Miami won a NC with one of the most talented teams in college football history.  Didn't matter what conference they were in.

AU won a NC and had an unbeaten, SEC Championship season.  Much bigger accomplishments than VT.

Michigan won a NC and won B1G Championships in an era when Oh St also won a NC.

Nebraska won 2 NC's (1994 as well) and played for a 3rd. 

VT did not do any of this.  VT was a Big East power if you want to call them that.  They were a level below all of these programs. 

You consider it.  I don't.  National power is a higher level than regional or local power.  Boise won a lot of conference championships too.  These aren't national powers.  They are good football programs. 

VT rarely beats a top 10 opponent.  Through the 2010 season, they were 8-43-1 all time.  The Hogs 29-92-3.  52 games vs 124 games.  8 wins vs 29 wins.  This is where you start to get the idea of what a fraud the hype is surrounding the VT program.  You go ahead and buy it if you want.  I don't.  You have to play and beat good teams to be a national power IMO.

Auburn 52 wins vs top 10 teams
Michigan 70
Miami 52 with an almost 50% win % in those matchups. 
The VT program has never been in these class of programs.  One season with Vick doesn't put them in it. 

https://sites.google.com/site/collegefootballhistory/record-vs-top-10-teams-game-time


From a VT site in 2014 before Oh St game:

https://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/9/3/6092791/Virginia-Tech-Hokies-Football-power-5-history
THE BOTTOM LINE

It's unavoidable for a big name coach like Beamer to be measured against the big boys. If you're going to be an elite coach you have to beat elite schools. Until the day he retires, Beamer will face the question of his win-loss record against the Power five. The grand total record against The power five since Beamer took over is 10-19-1.  Against teams ranked in the top 25 from the Power Five conferences is 4-12 and their record against teams from the Power Five ranked in the top 10 is 1-10. Staggering isn't it? But that's the beef of it. As much as Beamer wants to ignore the numbers, they exist, and fans are starting to notice, it's just how it is. That's why this Saturdays' game is so important. A win in Columbus would go a long way in easing the pains of these statistics. At this juncture in his career, Frank Beamer needs to channel early 90's Beamer when he was under fire and produced magic. If not, VT will fall further behind the big boys of college football.


Hell, even a VT site admits they are frauds.  Yet a couple of you want to argue they are a national power.  Beamer was 4-11-1 against the SEC at that time.  Throw in the Pac 12 and B1G and they were 5-16-1.  Absolute crap. 

[steveaustin69]

Miami won a NC with one of the most talented teams in college football history.  Didn't matter what conference they were in.

AU won a NC and had an unbeaten, SEC Championship season.  Much bigger accomplishments than VT.

Michigan won a NC and won B1G Championships in an era when Oh St also won a NC.

Nebraska won 2 NC's (1994 as well) and played for a 3rd. 

VT did not do any of this.  VT was a Big East power if you want to call them that.  They were a level below all of these programs. 

You consider it.  I don't.  National power is a higher level than regional or local power.  Boise won a lot of conference championships too.  These aren't national powers.  They are good football programs. 

VT rarely beats a top 10 opponent.  Through the 2010 season, they were 8-43-1 all time.  The Hogs 29-92-3.  52 games vs 124 games.  8 wins vs 29 wins.  This is where you start to get the idea of what a fraud the hype is surrounding the VT program.  You go ahead and buy it if you want.  I don't.  You have to play and beat good teams to be a national power IMO.

Auburn 52 wins vs top 10 teams
Michigan 70
Miami 52 with an almost 50% win % in those matchups. 
The VT program has never been in these class of programs.  One season with Vick doesn't put them in it. 

https://sites.google.com/site/collegefootballhistory/record-vs-top-10-teams-game-time

1. Who are the next two in the top 15? I'm waiting
2. Do those ACC years not count? You keep harping on Big East. Did you miss the part where 4 of the 7 championships were in the ACC?

Yet again, if you don't think 7 conference championships in 17 years of what would be a "Power 5" conference is a national power then I can not do anything for you.

[Atlhogfan1]

1. Who are the next two in the top 15? I'm waiting
2. Do those ACC years not count? You keep harping on Big East. Did you miss the part where 4 of the 7 championships were in the ACC?

Yet again, if you don't think 7 conference championships in 17 years of what would be a "Power 5" conference is a national power then I can not do anything for you.

From a VT site in 2014 before Oh St game:

https://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/9/3/6092791/Virginia-Tech-Hokies-Football-power-5-history
THE BOTTOM LINE

It's unavoidable for a big name coach like Beamer to be measured against the big boys. If you're going to be an elite coach you have to beat elite schools. Until the day he retires, Beamer will face the question of his win-loss record against the Power five. The grand total record against The power five since Beamer took over is 10-19-1.  Against teams ranked in the top 25 from the Power Five conferences is 4-12 and their record against teams from the Power Five ranked in the top 10 is 1-10. Staggering isn't it? But that's the beef of it. As much as Beamer wants to ignore the numbers, they exist, and fans are starting to notice, it's just how it is. That's why this Saturdays' game is so important. A win in Columbus would go a long way in easing the pains of these statistics. At this juncture in his career, Frank Beamer needs to channel early 90's Beamer when he was under fire and produced magic. If not, VT will fall further behind the big boys of college football.


Their own fans even realize they aren't a national power. 

Their conference championships aren't impressive when they were 4-11-1 vs the SEC in the Beamer era. 

[steveaustin69]

From a VT site in 2014 before Oh St game:

https://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/9/3/6092791/Virginia-Tech-Hokies-Football-power-5-history
THE BOTTOM LINE

It's unavoidable for a big name coach like Beamer to be measured against the big boys. If you're going to be an elite coach you have to beat elite schools. Until the day he retires, Beamer will face the question of his win-loss record against the Power five. The grand total record against The power five since Beamer took over is 10-19-1.  Against teams ranked in the top 25 from the Power Five conferences is 4-12 and their record against teams from the Power Five ranked in the top 10 is 1-10. Staggering isn't it? But that's the beef of it. As much as Beamer wants to ignore the numbers, they exist, and fans are starting to notice, it's just how it is. That's why this Saturdays' game is so important. A win in Columbus would go a long way in easing the pains of these statistics. At this juncture in his career, Frank Beamer needs to channel early 90's Beamer when he was under fire and produced magic. If not, VT will fall further behind the big boys of college football.


Their own fans even realize they aren't a national power. 

Their conference championships aren't impressive when they were 4-11-1 vs the SEC in the Beamer era.

1. Still waiting on those two teams
2. Winning your conference doesn't matter because you lost a few non-conference games? What kind of logic is that? For the record, they were 3-4 against the SEC '95-2011. Three of those losses were to an undefeated Auburn team and two national champions.

[RME]

From a VT site in 2014 before Oh St game:

https://www.gobblercountry.com/2014/9/3/6092791/Virginia-Tech-Hokies-Football-power-5-history
THE BOTTOM LINE

It's unavoidable for a big name coach like Beamer to be measured against the big boys. If you're going to be an elite coach you have to beat elite schools. Until the day he retires, Beamer will face the question of his win-loss record against the Power five. The grand total record against The power five since Beamer took over is 10-19-1.  Against teams ranked in the top 25 from the Power Five conferences is 4-12 and their record against teams from the Power Five ranked in the top 10 is 1-10. Staggering isn't it? But that's the beef of it. As much as Beamer wants to ignore the numbers, they exist, and fans are starting to notice, it's just how it is. That's why this Saturdays' game is so important. A win in Columbus would go a long way in easing the pains of these statistics. At this juncture in his career, Frank Beamer needs to channel early 90's Beamer when he was under fire and produced magic. If not, VT will fall further behind the big boys of college football.


Their own fans even realize they aren't a national power. 

Their conference championships aren't impressive when they were 4-11-1 vs the SEC in the Beamer era.

One guy speaks for an entire fanbase, apparently.

Arkansas could win 5 national championships in a row and we could find a subset who would still bitch about something.

[Atlhogfan1]

1. Still waiting on those two teams
2. Winning your conference doesn't matter because you lost a few non-conference games? What kind of logic is that? For the record, they were 3-4 against the SEC '95-2011. Three of those losses were to an undefeated Auburn team and two national champions.

1.  Do your own rankings.  I listed the programs clearly above VT.  Was not ranking the programs in any order and didn't count how many I listed.

2.  Winning your conference only matters if it leads to success on the national level.  Yes, they lost to the good teams they played.  Typical of Beamer as illustrated by his record vs non conference P5 and ranked teams.  This statement by you admits they weren't expected to win which would suggest they don't actually belong in this class of teams.

One guy speaks for an entire fanbase, apparently.

Arkansas could win 5 national championships in a row and we could find a subset who would still bitch about something.

10-19-1
4-12
1-10

Those speak for the program. 

[steveaustin69]

1.  Do your own rankings.  I listed the programs clearly above VT.  Was not ranking the programs in any order and didn't count how many I listed.

2.  Winning your conference only matters if it leads to success on the national level.  Yes, they lost to the good teams they played.  Typical of Beamer as illustrated by his record vs non conference P5 and ranked teams.  This statement by you admits they weren't expected to win which would suggest they don't actually belong in this class of teams.

10-19-1
4-12
1-10

Those speak for the program.

You missed his point, bud. Flew right over your head.

[bphi11ips]

The Gospel according to hogsanity is that Arkansas is not currently a Top 30 program based upon the Houston Chronicle criteria.  You be the judge:

1. Facilities.

DWRRS listed here at 20th largest college football stadium in terms of capacity:

https://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/the-25-largest-college-football-stadiums/527/

The list shows capacity at 80,000, but it would still be in top 25 at actual capacity.  It also looks about right based on this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capacity

Does anyone seriously think Arkansas doesn't have Top 30 facilities?

2. History (recent and past).

Arkansas ranked here at 19 in January, 2017:

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/01/ap-college-football-rankings-greatest-programs-of-all-time

Notice the criteria is recent and past.

3. Money (that a school spends -and not on recruits).

Arkansas at number 13 on this 2015 Forbes list of most profitable college football teams:

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-20-most-profitable-college-football-teams-122215/

4. Recruiting (the area from which to draw).

Arkansas averages 26 per Rivals since 2002.  Trust me.  You don't want to do this yourself.

5. Conference.

SEC.  'Nuff said.

6. Attendance/game day atmosphere/campus geography.

21st in average attendance:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/66x8ks/20162017_fbs_football_attendance_rankings/

Campus set in Ozark Mountains (that's really a plateau in case InHogsWeTrust is reading this).  Ever been to College Station?

Gameday atmosphere?  You be the judge.

7. Brand name/prestige.

Depends on your perspective, which really means it depends on your age and how jaded you may or may not be.  If you're at 12 on a jaded scale of 1-10 like the Prophet hogsanity, then you probably think the brand sucks.  If you're old enough to remember when the Goodyear Blimp was a regular at ABC telecasts of Arkansas football games, then you may have a different view of the strength of the brand.  How distinctive is the Razorbacks logo? (not to be confused with the forward facing hog)  How distinctive is the Hog call?  How distinctive is the fight song?

There are many ways to value the strength of a brand, but in the real world when a brand is sold, strength is tied to revenue.  Enough info above on where Arkansas ranks on that front.

8. Exposure/TV.

Every game is televised on SEC Network, ESPN, or CBS.  So are a bunch of other teams.  Here are rankings from 2013 showing SEC number one and Arkansas number 25:

https://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

9. NFL draftees.

Arkansas at 24 all-time:

http://drafthistory.com/n_college/college_n.html

One behind Auburn.

10. Coaching (stability)

Arkansas just gave Bret Bielema 5 years to go 11-29 in conference.  A&M fired Sumlin after going 21-19 over the same period.

Number of coaches at Arkansas since 2000, including interim:  4

Number of coaches at A&M since 2000, including interims:  7

Number of Arkansas Board of Trustee members posting on Facebook during season that coach should be fired:  0

Number of A&M Regents posting on Facebook during season that coach should be fired:  1

So there you have it.  A&M beats Arkansas 1-0.



My conclusion based upon research applied to Houston Chronicle criteria: Arkansas is firmly in the Top 25 and knocking on the door for Top 20.  And that is after 25 years of below par coaching.

[Hugo Bezdek]

The Gospel according to hogsanity is that Arkansas is not currently a Top 30 program based upon the Houston Chronicle criteria.  You be the judge:

1. Facilities.

DWRRS listed here at 20th largest college football stadium in terms of capacity:

https://www.collegexpress.com/lists/list/the-25-largest-college-football-stadiums/527/

The list shows capacity at 80,000, but it would still be in top 25 at actual capacity.  It also looks about right based on this list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_football_stadiums_by_capacity

Does anyone seriously think Arkansas doesn't have Top 30 facilities?

2. History (recent and past).

Arkansas ranked here at 19 in January, 2017:

http://collegefootballnews.com/2017/01/ap-college-football-rankings-greatest-programs-of-all-time

Notice the criteria is recent and past.

3. Money (that a school spends -and not on recruits).

Arkansas at number 13 on this 2015 Forbes list of most profitable college football teams:

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/the-20-most-profitable-college-football-teams-122215/

4. Recruiting (the area from which to draw).

Arkansas averages 26 per Rivals since 2002.  Trust me.  You don't want to do this yourself.

5. Conference.

SEC.  'Nuff said.

6. Attendance/game day atmosphere/campus geography.

21st in average attendance:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/66x8ks/20162017_fbs_football_attendance_rankings/

Campus set in Ozark Mountains (that's really a plateau in case InHogsWeTrust is reading this).  Ever been to College Station?

Gameday atmosphere?  You be the judge.

7. Brand name/prestige.

Depends on your perspective, which really means it depends on your age and how jaded you may or may not be.  If you're at 12 on a jaded scale of 1-10 like the Prophet hogsanity, then you probably think the brand sucks.  If you're old enough to remember when the Goodyear Blimp was a regular at ABC telecasts of Arkansas football games, then you may have a different view of the strength of the brand.  How distinctive is the Razorbacks logo? (not to be confused with the forward facing hog)  How distinctive is the Hog call?  How distinctive is the fight song?

There are many ways to value the strength of a brand, but in the real world when a brand is sold, strength is tied to revenue.  Enough info above on where Arkansas ranks on that front.

8. Exposure/TV.

Every game is televised on SEC Network, ESPN, or CBS.  So are a bunch of other teams.  Here are rankings from 2013 showing SEC number one and Arkansas number 25:

https://www.goodbullhunting.com/2013/12/17/5216550/college-football-tv-ratings-2013-regular-season-final-sec

9. NFL draftees.

Arkansas at 24 all-time:

http://drafthistory.com/n_college/college_n.html

One behind Auburn.

10. Coaching (stability)

Arkansas just gave Bret Bielema 5 years to go 11-29 in conference.  A&M fired Sumlin after going 21-19 over the same period.

Number of coaches at Arkansas since 2000, including interim:  4

Number of coaches at A&M since 2000, including interims:  7

Number of Arkansas Board of Trustee members posting on Facebook during season that coach should be fired:  0

Number of A&M Regents posting on Facebook during season that coach should be fired:  1

So there you have it.  A&M beats Arkansas 1-0.



My conclusion based upon research applied to Houston Chronicle criteria: Arkansas is firmly in the Top 25 and knocking on the door for Top 20.  And that is after 25 years of below par coaching.

I think that pretty much covers it. We should be able to retire this post now. Razorback History - 1, Houston Chronicle - 0

[195bc]

Based on the criteria presented in the article, I agree as well.

We are not at the moment, but we have the potential to be top 20 if things are going well.

80% of P5 schools can say the thing with a good coach. Stick Leach in Lubbock or Pullman for a few years, and they become a top 25 programs. Put Patterson in Ft. Worth and Briles in Waco and those doormats quickly become top 25 programs or better. Put Gundy in Stillwater and they become a top 20 program, with more ranked finishes in a decade than in the previous 60 years combined. Mullen at Miss St, Freeze at Ole Miss, Spurrier at South Carolina, Harbough and Shaw at Stanford, and the list goes on and on. Arkansas isn't as special as you think. For most schools, it's all about the coach and has less to do with revenue, stadium size, location, or conference. Get a really good coach that stays for a while, and you become a top 25 program. We had three good coaches in a row - Broyles, Holtz, Hatfield - then a bunch crap after that except for four years of Petrino.

[bphi11ips]

80% of P5 schools can say the thing with a good coach. Stick Leach in Lubbock or Pullman for a few years, and they become a top 25 programs. Put Patterson in Ft. Worth and Briles in Waco and those doormats quickly become top 25 programs or better. Put Gundy in Stillwater and they become a top 20 program, with more ranked finishes in a decade than in the previous 60 years combined. Mullen at Miss St, Freeze at Ole Miss, Spurrier at South Carolina, Harbough and Shaw at Stanford, and the list goes on and on. Arkansas isn't as special as you think. For most schools, it's all about the coach and has less to do with revenue, stadium size, location, or conference. Get a really good coach that stays for a while, and you become a top 25 program. We had three good coaches in a row - Broyles, Holtz, Hatfield - then a bunch crap after that except for four years of Petrino.

Alabama finished unranked 12 times between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban.

[195bc]

Alabama finished unranked 12 times between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban.

What's your point? Between Bear and Saban, they finished the season ranked 21 out of 33 years, finished in the top 10 seven times, and won a national championship. But that's not near as good as Bear did in his 24 years or near as good as Saban.

[bphi11ips]

What's your point? Between Bear and Saban, they finished the season ranked 21 out of 33 years, finished in the top 10 seven times, and won a national championship. But that's not near as good as Bear did in his 24 years or near as good as Saban.

My point was the same as yours.

[195bc]

My point was the same as yours.

Very well then. I think I agree with you.