Correlation between good coach and mathematics background?

[bennyl08]

Also, a lot of the applicability lies in what the focus of his degree was on.

For example, a pure math option is radically different from what most people are used to with math. Most people think of something like x^2 +5x =3 type of thing. In the pure maths, you are solving single equation. You are dealing with what the solution for every polynomial imaginable is, including imaginary polynomials. It's like the difference between english and linguistics where the former gets you to analyze a sentence and the latter stops caring about what specific language you are using at all and deals with how language in general works.

Then there's the applied maths. This could then specialize in programmings, prob and stats, or modeling/more science based maths. These are all areas more people are familiar with so I won't go into that as much.

Of course, for any of these, you have to have a logical mind. The biggest difference is then whether you work better in an abstract setting, a language and computer setting, and so on.

[ballz2thewall]

it reveals a penchant for problem solving.

[ZERO]

If you have a defense, even one that is just decent, that can get THE stop when it's needed in a game, that wins championships.  Don't need stats to tell us how many times a game comes down to that one drive that everyone in the stands...everyone watching on TV...and everyone on the sidelines knows...this probably decides the game.

I could see that, but that's just being clutch, isn't it? Could you not say the same thing for offense? An offense that could be consistently depended on for that one 80-yard play a game could make all the difference in a season.

[AHiD]

because we field teams of robots?

no there is a human factor in the sport.  that is what makes it unpredictable.

This is why sabermetrics in baseball are bad at evaluating players, right?

[Jonbo]

Do not say "clutch"! Do not start a "clutch"discussion. Oh, snap!

[PorkSoda]

This is why sabermetrics in baseball are bad at evaluating players, right?

not saying science is not useful.  but its not going to win games by itself.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Frank Broyles graduated with a degree in Industrial Management - lots of engineering and math.  He did pretty good.

I believe Tom Landry had an Engineering Degree.  Could be wrong.

[dfwalumdad]

Frank Broyles graduated with a degree in Industrial Management - lots of engineering and math.  He did pretty good.

broyles invented the concept of the statistical analysis of football. broyles was a baseball guy first and foremost, he took that love of stats and applied it to football and came up with a a portfolio of coaching axioms, like if a team starts at the twenty yard line or less they have a 20% chance of scoring. he then took those axioms and taught them too two generations of future coaches. the rest is history.

for the record my son just graduated with a mathematics and stats degree from the UofA.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

prove it?  or drop it.  I don't care.  this is a silly derail.

Man, I don't get the gist of the argument here at all. There isn't any doubt that a study of your own or an opponent's tendencies on both sides of the ball, given a particular down and distance and given field position during a particular quarter and how it applies to specific position groups at any given time, while taking into consideration the score at the time, is complicated data to mass, but is insanely valuable in the development and execution of a game plan.

And of course, all of that can and often does, change from one game to another. Other factors do obviously include the level of talent at all positions on both sides of the ball and at more key positions as well and their level of motivation, experience/development and how their play on the field is trending, the individual players mindset, success off the field and social relationships can also have a significant effect on how each unit (or individual) performs at any given time during the season, i.e., confidence levels of each unit or player involved in the performance of that unit.

This isn't rocket science but in a way these days, it can be.

[PorkSoda]

Man, I don't get the gist of the argument here at all. There isn't any doubt that a study of your own or an opponent's tendencies on both sides of the ball, given a particular down and distance and given field position during a particular quarter and how it applies to specific position groups at any given time, while taking into consideration the score at the time, is complicated data to mass, but is insanely valuable in the development and execution of a game plan.

And of course, all of that can and often does, change from one game to another. Other factors do obviously include the level of talent at all positions on both sides of the ball and at more key positions as well and their level of motivation, experience/development and how their play on the field is trending, the individual players mindset, success off the field and social relationships can also have a significant effect on how each unit (or individual) performs at any given time during the season, i.e., confidence levels of each unit or player involved in the performance of that unit.

This isn't rocket science but in a way these days, it can be.

the gist is that football is as much an art form as science.

saying that the game of football can be reduced to pure science is pure silliness.

I'm not saying that science doesn't play a role, because it obviously does.

and I agree with the OP that analytical minds can correlate to success in football because there is a lot of data/myth to analyze when dealing with down and distance decisions, and probabilities, etc.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

the gist is that football is as much an art form as science.

saying that the game of football can be reduced to pure science is pure silliness.

I think I just illustrated that but, all of that data can be evaluated, some of it more accurately than others. Football is a game of measurement, just like most sports. There are always the intangibles that you seek to study, but some have more grey area than others.

[PorkSoda]

I think I just illustrated that but, all of that data can be evaluated, some of it more accurately than others. Football is a game of measurement, just like most sports. There are always the intangibles that you seek to study, but some have more grey area than others.

agreed.

[myriad_rocker]

Although I did not graduate from the U of A with a mathematics degree, I majored in accounting. However in HS, I took Algebra, Algebra II, and Geometry, liking all 3.  I tend to be  somewhat of a perfectionist and an attention to detail freak. I'm not a coach though

That's great but...we all took those classes in HS.

[PorkSoda]

That's great but...we all took those classes in HS.

but did you like taking them?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

but did you like taking them?

I loved various classes in the study of Statistics in college, most of which I have applied in business, but not in football.

[26.2Hog]

what is the scientific formula for motivation?

When your wife says to you, "if you want any tonight, you need to clean up the kitchen and vacuum the downstairs".

[Tarheelhawg]

For an offensive mind it might be similar to how math relates to chess. Controlling the most spaces or the center of the board gives a huge advantage in chess. So for a coach finding the most opportunities for a numbers advantage or open space with motion and overloading or flooding an area. I play chess not a coach.  But CCM refers to offense as a chess match in one of his videos.

[MavND1973]

because we field teams of robots?

no there is a human factor in the sport.  that is what makes it unpredictable.

Las Vegas (and their billions of $$$) would strongly disagree with you. Even the "human" factor is predictable. They made a freaking entire industry out of it.

[sickboy]

High level of mathematics = attention to details

This. Anyone with that kind of degree is probably really great at building a playbook too. X and O building are basically formulas in visual form.

[East Clintwood]

My wife graduated from the UofA with a math degree, and she is always right.

It has nothing to do with math.  It has to do with being the wife.

[BoarnSupremacy]

When I first heard CCM was going to get the job I have to admit I wasn't excited.  However, I did some research and came away really impressed with his achievements as a football coach.  My interest really piqued when I read that he has a degree in mathematics.  CBP had a minor in mathematics and despite his lapse in judgement, I considered him a very cerebral, detail oriented person - verge of perfectionist.

So my question is.....do you think there is a link between good coaching and a mathematics background?  While I don't have scientific research to back it up, I think there is a general perception that people that can do well in advanced math can also innately see things that others cannot.

I do not know of any other coaches with a similar background so maybe I am just grasping at straws hoping CCM can take us back to where CBP had us in 2011.

I think it may mean he is smart, tenacious with exceptional focus.  That's part of what it takes to get a degree in math/statistics in my opinion.

[Pork Twain]

Not buying it at all.  There are no absolutes and the only way to flush this out would be a longitudinal study.

[Eddie Goodson]

Not buying it at all.  There are no absolutes and the only way to flush this out would be a longitudinal study.

Are you absolutely sure about that?

[Pork Twain]

Are you absolutely sure about that?

Nope but there is no reason to buy it.  Maybe a a correlation between a good coach and an advanced ability to be a critical thinker.  That is far and away not just limited to the math and science.

[Hog N Bama]

thats the point.  real life is inevitably unpredictable.  it never works out exactly like it does on paper.

yes, I get the "applied" part.  but if there was a scientific formula for winning games, it would have been found by now.  but there isn't.

how did Auburn kill georgia just to turn around and get killed by georgia.

what is the scientific formula for motivation?

The result is due to the minus Keryon Johnson

[Hog N Bama]

I loved various classes in the study of Statistics in college, most of which I have applied in business, but not in football.

Statistics in college was a favorite of mine too. Really interesting

[Nashville Fan]

Stats don't lie.

But statisticians do. Trust me. Look at the global warming topic.

[elviscat]

Dick Satan, had a business degree from Kent State, not much math.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Coach Bielema was a great guy and certainly no dummy, but let's be real: he wasn't as intellectually gifted as Bobby Petrino or Chad Morris.
Bielema was a lovable meathead compared to Petrino's mad scientist. Bielema was more akin to Danny Ford (you don't have to be a scientific rocket...)
I think intelligence shows up on the football field. Plays, strategies, personnel moves, etc

I'm impressed by Morris's educational background as well as his coaching resume.

Motivational skills are huge too. You have to get your guys to play like somebody called their mama a bad name, as someone once said. So even if Morris turns out to be a certified genius, if he can't relate to his players and have communication skills, it won't matter how smart he is.

[rzrbaxfan]

The key here is that he's talking about the NFL.  If he did the same analysis of the SEC, the results would likely be very different, because SEC champions typically have far stronger defenses.  The outlier has been Auburn teams with Malzahn calling plays.  With the exception of this year, because Auburn's defense is ranked higher than it's offense, Malzahn's other SEC champions have somehow won with great offenses and terrible defenses.  That's a plus for Arkansas, since CCM is a Malzahn protege.

I also think you can extend that outside of the SEC to all FBS football, but don't hold me to that.

edit: Almost forgot to mention that it's cool you're an architect!  Sometimes I wish that I'd studied architecture.

Reminds me of my favorite George Costanza quotes  "You know I always wanted to pretend I was an architect"

[ambien_sky]

My wife graduated from the UofA with a math degree, and she is always right.

Are you sure it has to do with Math?  My wife is a stay at home mom,  and she is always right too.

[rzrbaxfan]

My wife graduated from the UofA with a math degree, and she is always right.

My wife and I both have graduate degrees in mathematics.  Sometimes I am right.  Sometimes....

[PorkSoda]

But statisticians do. Trust me. Look at the global warming topic.

perception of lying directly relates to one's preconceived ideas

[PorkSoda]

Las Vegas (and their billions of $$$) would strongly disagree with you. Even the "human" factor is predictable. They made a freaking entire industry out of it.

yeah vegas stacks the odds in their favor, that is why the house always wins.  not really that difficult.

[jbigs77]

I do think people with mathematical minds, do have tendency to be more detail oriented. However, some of these types tend to over think, and sometimes make simple, complicated. With all the thinking percentages, equations, formulas and theories. I have simplified the thought processes and came up with a absolute answer.

The team that scores more points than the opponent wins 100% of the time.   

[PorkSoda]

The team that scores more points than the opponent wins 100% of the time.   

its its so easy, why do only 50% of the teams win any given Saturday?

[Bacons Rebellion]

its its so easy, why do only 50% of the teams win any given Saturday?

That's a considerable improvement over the 60s, when significantly less than 50% of the teams won on any give Saturday.

[PorkSoda]

That's a considerable improvement over the 60s, when significantly less than 50% of the teams won on any give Saturday.

touche