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Author Topic: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...  (Read 6019 times)

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HogPharmer

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2017, 02:44:57 pm »

It's the lifeblood of Razorback football.

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MJ2

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2017, 03:08:06 pm »

How soon do we start hearing how bare the cupboard is after CBB?    Not true, but the staff will say it.
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Dr. Starcs

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2017, 03:47:44 pm »

Arkansas fans top 10 in the bend over and take it poll
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HamGrowsOnTrees

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2017, 03:50:03 pm »

How soon do we start hearing how bare the cupboard is after CBB?    Not true, but the staff will say it.

Excuses for CCM will begin signing day and Not end For 5 years.
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Uncommon

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2017, 03:50:26 pm »

Arkansas fans top 10 in the bend over and take it poll
At least we are not Arizona State right now.  0:45 - 1:15

Not a valid youtube URL
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HawgHeadCheese

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2017, 04:01:32 pm »

How soon do we start hearing how bare the cupboard is after CBB?    Not true, but the staff will say it.
Some of our offensive players should excel in this system. Hayden and Hammond's especially.
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Hopeful Hog

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2017, 04:11:43 pm »

More like Arkansas is a giant in a coma.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2017, 04:17:44 pm »

Clemson - right here.  I thought it.  Not necessarily about Dabo.  But that program was underachieving after Ford.  Combination of recruiting draw, base and facilities compared to its conference and being in a basketball centric conference other than FSU and VT.  The Auburn of the ACC but with more of an advantage over competition.  Very different situtation from ours.



Not nearly as different as you think it is.  Over 20,000,000 people live within a 5 hour drive of Fayetteville, and that's just all of Arkansas, DFW, Shreveport, Memphis, Tulsa, Kansas City, and St. Louis.  The African American population in that footprint is close to 4 million. 

Arkansas competes with other FBS schools for athletes within its footprint.  Those schools include Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and others.  Clemson's main recruiting ground other than South Carolina is Georgia.  I'm not going to do the math and demographics there, but Clemson competes in its footprint with South Carolina, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Georgia Tech and Florida State. 

The truth is that Arkansas is not nearly as disadvantaged as so many here like to say it is.  We simply haven't had the right coach.  And - recruiting rankings are to some extent self fulfilling prophecies based upon an athlete's offer sheet and the offerring schools past level of success.  If Arkansas's record improves so will its recruiting rankings. 
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Hoginsavga

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2017, 04:24:13 pm »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.

You hit the nail squarely on the head. People forget the schools in close proximity to Clemson that they compete with for recruits. UGA is only 70 miles and then there is USCe and the other Carolina schools in North And South Carolina. The same is true for Auburn who competes with Bama, FL State, FL and UGA for their recruits. Not many schools have an isolated base where there is little competition. Although AR does not have as many highly rated stars as some of the other SEC states we are the only one I can think of that doesn’t have another P5 school to compete with, except LSU.
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ARfan#1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2017, 04:28:12 pm »

Can't tell you how excited I am knowing that we at least have a head coach that will implement a modern offense that fits today's game.

Defense will be a challenge though. Hopefully we find a great DC.
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Broken Trigger

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2017, 07:25:02 pm »

Several thousand a month?

NWA metro area in 2010 - 463K, in 2016 - 525K.

62K growth in 6 years (72 months). It's growing certainly, but not at that rate.


Go Hogs!

Yes, actually meant several thousand a year, probably about a thousand a month.  Sorry about that.  Thanks for pointing that out though.  Still pretty impressive growth and expanding our number of quality recruits.
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sevenof400

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2017, 07:21:39 am »

Arkansas fans top 10 in the bend over and take it poll

This can be read in so many different ways....
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2017, 07:23:35 am »

Arkansas is a sleeping giant who believes his obesity is genetic.
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Kneph13

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2017, 07:39:16 am »

I remember Alabama being horrible in football in the early 2000's.  Now look at their program.  They cherry pick recruits from ANYWHERE in the nation!  We now have an offensive mastermind as head coach.  Could you imagine what could happen if we hire a stud defensive coordinator!? He supposedly coaches up three stars,  which in turn will lead to 4 and 5 stars...and yes,  stars matter unless you find diamonds in the rough from small schools who are under evaluated.  We need to become a top 15 recruiting base if we want to make it.  This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters.  It will take time,  but not as long as you think.  Clemson had the same blueprint and look at them.  The future is looking bright!  WPS! 🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

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Redhogs

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2017, 08:02:21 am »

Excuses for CCM will begin signing day and Not end For 5 years.
Maybe, but he does not sound like an excuse maker, unlike Bert who was the king of the excuse makers.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2017, 08:34:24 am »

Not nearly as different as you think it is.  Over 20,000,000 people live within a 5 hour drive of Fayetteville, and that's just all of Arkansas, DFW, Shreveport, Memphis, Tulsa, Kansas City, and St. Louis.  The African American population in that footprint is close to 4 million. 

Arkansas competes with other FBS schools for athletes within its footprint.  Those schools include Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and others.  Clemson's main recruiting ground other than South Carolina is Georgia.  I'm not going to do the math and demographics there, but Clemson competes in its footprint with South Carolina, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Georgia Tech and Florida State. 

The truth is that Arkansas is not nearly as disadvantaged as so many here like to say it is.  We simply haven't had the right coach.  And - recruiting rankings are to some extent self fulfilling prophecies based upon an athlete's offer sheet and the offerring schools past level of success.  If Arkansas's record improves so will its recruiting rankings.

UNC, NC ST and GT aren't really threats especially GT. 

The first huge difference:

2017 - Clemson finished 3rd in recruiting rankings in ACC at 16th nationally.  2nd in their division.  Hogs finished 6th out of 7 in the SECW and 27th nationally.  A top 25-30 class but near the bottom of the division. 

2016 - Clemson finished 2nd in the ACC, 11th nationally and 2nd in their division.  Hogs again 6th in the SECW but 23rd nationally.

2015 - Clemson finished 2nd in the ACC, 9th nationally and 2nd in their division.  Hogs finished last in the SECW but 22nd nationally.

I shouldn't have to go on.  You know this is the reason our situations aren't comparable.  We are disadvantaged to our competition.  Nationally, we'll out recruit most of college football based on the rankings.  It's why you can't reach and compare us to other programs even if it makes you feel better.

The right coach at the right time can recruit well enough to Arkansas to have competitive teams and on occasion one capable of winning the SECW (if we could get by Bama or when Saban leaves).  We aren't some untapped giant like LSU was pre-Saban or what we've been hearing about A&M for decades or Clemson.


As far as Clemson, the nation's number 3 player is from SC and is at IMG Academy and has committed to them.  The nation's #1 player according to 24/7 is from the Atl area and has committed to them.  You say they compete against UGA.  Sure they do.  UGA has a commitment from the nation's #2 player also from the Atl area.  In fact 1 and 2 are not far from each other on the NW side.  This recruiting area in Ga and Fl up through the Carolinas and VA can support multiple elite programs. Nation's #6 player from NC committed to UGa.  #18 from Rome, Ga commited to UGa. #22 player from Atl area.  You have to get down to #28 just find a player from our region - Moore, OK going to OU.  Go ahead and draw your circle from Fay.  The high school football in Mo including KC is crap in comparison to the SE.  Kansas is a wasteland.  Oklahoma is okay.  Arkansas is almost nothing in comparison.  And when you get into Shr and Dallas, you are 5+ hours away.  Go check 5 hours from these program like Clemson and AU. 
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Hoggish1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2017, 08:44:26 am »

This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters. 

How much money does he have for assistants?
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2017, 08:45:22 am »

UNC, NC ST and GT aren't really threats especially GT. 

The first huge difference:

2017 - Clemson finished 3rd in recruiting rankings in ACC at 16th nationally.  2nd in their division.  Hogs finished 6th out of 7 in the SECW and 27th nationally.  A top 25-30 class but near the bottom of the division. 

2016 - Clemson finished 2nd in the ACC, 11th nationally and 2nd in their division.  Hogs again 6th in the SECW but 23rd nationally.

2015 - Clemson finished 2nd in the ACC, 9th nationally and 2nd in their division.  Hogs finished last in the SECW but 22nd nationally.

I shouldn't have to go on.  You know this is the reason our situations aren't comparable.  We are disadvantaged to our competition.  Nationally, we'll out recruit most of college football based on the rankings.  It's why you can't reach and compare us to other programs even if it makes you feel better.

The right coach at the right time can recruit well enough to Arkansas to have competitive teams and on occasion one capable of winning the SECW (if we could get by Bama or when Saban leaves).  We aren't some untapped giant like LSU was pre-Saban or what we've been hearing about A&M for decades or Clemson.


As far as Clemson, the nation's number 3 player is from SC and is at IMG Academy and has committed to them.  The nation's #1 player according to 24/7 is from the Atl area and has committed to them.  You say they compete against UGA.  Sure they do.  UGA has a commitment from the nation's #2 player also from the Atl area.  In fact 1 and 2 are not far from each other on the NW side.  This recruiting area in Ga and Fl up through the Carolinas and VA can support multiple elite programs. Nation's #6 player from NC committed to UGa.  #18 from Rome, Ga commited to UGa. #22 player from Atl area.  You have to get down to #28 just find a player from our region - Moore, OK going to OU.  Go ahead and draw your circle from Fay.  The high school football in Mo including KC is crap in comparison to the SE.  Kansas is a wasteland.  Oklahoma is okay.  Arkansas is almost nothing in comparison.  And when you get into Shr and Dallas, you are 5+ hours away.  Go check 5 hours from these program like Clemson and AU. 


At least someone else on here gets it.
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Hoggish1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2017, 08:48:05 am »

This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters. 

How much money does he have for assistants?
For the first time in a very long time it appears the PTB are willing to spend the money on a SEC quality coaching staff.  If that proves to be true, then a quick change in fortune could well happen.  I'm optimistically looking to the future as we get a read on what type of financial resources they will be giving CCM to work with.

So, the ptb have finally gotten religeon and opened the checkbook?  That makes me even more angry that it took this long for "that to happen."
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rickm1976

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2017, 08:55:15 am »

Arkansas can rise up like Clemson, but it will be because a coach figured out how to get get SEC playmakers and defenders from other states.

Bingo.  It has been our biggest deficiency for some time.  Yeah, we get a home grown super athlete now and then, but half the other schools in the SEC are filled with them.
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Hogimus Prime

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2017, 09:02:49 am »

It is possible.  Outside of small number of schools, like Bama, tOSU and even they have had down season, most of the schools today that are hot right now were nothing 20-30 years ago.  They made a great hire and things fell into place and it all took off.  So it is possible
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2017, 10:21:10 am »

It is possible.  Outside of small number of schools, like Bama, tOSU and even they have had down season, most of the schools today that are hot right now were nothing 20-30 years ago.  They made a great hire and things fell into place and it all took off.  So it is possible

I agree it is possible.

Outside of Clemson, who did win a NC in the 80's btw, just what non-traditional powers are "hot right now? The current top 10 is a whos who of traditional powers after Clemson - Ou, Ga, Bama, Ohio St, Wisc, Aub, USC, Pn St, Miami.

UCF and Memphis are just this years versions of Boise and Utah. Every year there are a couple teams that win 10 or 11 games or even 12 from g5 leagues, and then after a year or 2 or 3 kind of fade away again.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2017, 12:32:05 pm »

I agree it is possible.

Outside of Clemson, who did win a NC in the 80's btw, just what non-traditional powers are "hot right now? The current top 10 is a whos who of traditional powers after Clemson - Ou, Ga, Bama, Ohio St, Wisc, Aub, USC, Pn St, Miami.

UCF and Memphis are just this years versions of Boise and Utah. Every year there are a couple teams that win 10 or 11 games or even 12 from g5 leagues, and then after a year or 2 or 3 kind of fade away again.

Chad Morris addressed a number of things in his press conference today that I've been saying here for years.

First, he said he grew up watching the old SWC and knows that Arkansas's best teams were made up of a combination of Arkansas and Texas players with a smattering of Louisiana and Oklahoma players and a few from the rest of the country.  He's 49.  He gets it.  So do the people who hired him.  There is nothing wrong with Arkansas's recruiting footprint or the type of players it produces on offense and defense.  They just have to be identified and convinced to play football at Arkansas.

Second, he said he is going to build a fence around Arkansas.  He won't get everyone, but he has to make that a goal.

Third, he drew a parallel between Arkansas and Clemson when he became OC at Clemson.  Clemson and its offense in 2010 is a good analogy to Arkansas in 2017.  Clemson ranked 88 in total offense in 2010 and finished 6-7.  Morris took over in 2011 and Clemson jumped to 26 in total offense and finished 10-4.  In 2012 they jumped to 9 and finished 11-2. They haven't won fewer than 10 games since and have made three straight playoffs running Morris's offense. 

The schools you listed as traditional powers would have included Arkansas when Morris was growing up watching the SWC.  Arkansas was ahead of both Clemson and Auburn those days in terms of perception and tradition.  Watching the press conference today, I didn't get the impression that anyone has told Chad Morris that Arkansas can't recruit or compete with traditional powers. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2017, 12:37:56 pm »

Chad Morris addressed a number of things in his press conference today that I've been saying here for years.

First, he said he grew up watching the old SWC and knows that Arkansas's best teams were made up of a combination of Arkansas and Texas players with a smattering of Louisiana and Oklahoma players and a few from the rest of the country.  He's 49.  He gets it.  So do the people who hired him.  There is nothing wrong with Arkansas's recruiting footprint or the type of players it produces on offense and defense.  They just have to be identified and convinced to play football at Arkansas.

Second, he said he is going to build a fence around Arkansas.  He won't get everyone, but he has to make that a goal.

Third, he drew a parallel between Arkansas and Clemson when he became OC at Clemson.  Clemson and its offense in 2010 is a good analogy to Arkansas in 2017.  Clemson ranked 88 in total offense in 2010 and finished 6-7.  Morris took over in 2011 and Clemson jumped to 26 in total offense and finished 10-4.  In 2012 they jumped to 9 and finished 11-2. They haven't won fewer than 10 games since and have made three straight playoffs running Morris's offense. 

The schools you listed as traditional powers would have included Arkansas when Morris was growing up watching the SWC.  Arkansas was ahead of both Clemson and Auburn those days in terms of perception and tradition.  Watching the press conference today, I didn't get the impression that anyone has told Chad Morris that Arkansas can't recruit or compete with traditional powers. 

I was referring to the guy who posted that the hot schools today were nothing 20-30 years ago, and that is simply not true. The top 10 has changed very little the past 2 or 3 decades.

As for the fence, BB said that, so did bp, so did hdn. They all say it in some way " gotta keep the Arkansas kids home ". I do not disagree, I just do not think it is nearly as many SEC level players as others seem to think.

Isn't the roster now made up of Ar, TX kids with a smattering from LA, OK, and elsewhere?
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HamGrowsOnTrees

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2017, 12:39:43 pm »


This post should have broke the internet it was so good
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hogginbama

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #75 on: December 07, 2017, 12:44:19 pm »

How soon do we start hearing how bare the cupboard is after CBB?    Not true, but the staff will say it.


The staff probably won't say it, but the fans definitely will. It will come out for sure, even after we heard them all year talk about how talented the team was and the right coach could win 9-10 games with the same team. Well now is their chance to have it proven. Ole boy now has the same team....time for him to win 9-10 games next year....but he won't...all of those same fans will say I am crazy for saying this....but it is their words, not mine. In their words of infinite wisdom, since this team on the hill and the right coach could win 9-10...I say fire his ass if he doesn't.
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Paul

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2017, 12:50:11 pm »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.
no just population. It's the number of quality D! football players & distance from fertile recruiting ground.  Parents want a reasonable drive to see their kids play.
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Paul

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2017, 12:57:45 pm »

Chad Morris addressed a number of things in his press conference today that I've been saying here for years.

First, he said he grew up watching the old SWC and knows that Arkansas's best teams were made up of a combination of Arkansas and Texas players with a smattering of Louisiana and Oklahoma players and a few from the rest of the country.  He's 49.  He gets it.  So do the people who hired him.  There is nothing wrong with Arkansas's recruiting footprint or the type of players it produces on offense and defense.  They just have to be identified and convinced to play football at Arkansas.

Second, he said he is going to build a fence around Arkansas.  He won't get everyone, but he has to make that a goal.

Third, he drew a parallel between Arkansas and Clemson when he became OC at Clemson.  Clemson and its offense in 2010 is a good analogy to Arkansas in 2017.  Clemson ranked 88 in total offense in 2010 and finished 6-7.  Morris took over in 2011 and Clemson jumped to 26 in total offense and finished 10-4.  In 2012 they jumped to 9 and finished 11-2. They haven't won fewer than 10 games since and have made three straight playoffs running Morris's offense. 

The schools you listed as traditional powers would have included Arkansas when Morris was growing up watching the SWC.  Arkansas was ahead of both Clemson and Auburn those days in terms of perception and tradition.  Watching the press conference today, I didn't get the impression that anyone has told Chad Morris that Arkansas can't recruit or compete with traditional powers.
several problems with his statement:  This is not the SWC with only a few competitive teams a year.  Arkansas is not in close proximity to GA & the deep South where so many talented skill position athletes(some in TX) AND physical LB's & lineman live. 
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311Hog

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2017, 12:58:00 pm »

Chad Morris addressed a number of things in his press conference today that I've been saying here for years.

First, he said he grew up watching the old SWC and knows that Arkansas's best teams were made up of a combination of Arkansas and Texas players with a smattering of Louisiana and Oklahoma players and a few from the rest of the country.  He's 49.  He gets it.  So do the people who hired him.  There is nothing wrong with Arkansas's recruiting footprint or the type of players it produces on offense and defense.  They just have to be identified and convinced to play football at Arkansas.

Second, he said he is going to build a fence around Arkansas.  He won't get everyone, but he has to make that a goal.

Third, he drew a parallel between Arkansas and Clemson when he became OC at Clemson.  Clemson and its offense in 2010 is a good analogy to Arkansas in 2017.  Clemson ranked 88 in total offense in 2010 and finished 6-7.  Morris took over in 2011 and Clemson jumped to 26 in total offense and finished 10-4.  In 2012 they jumped to 9 and finished 11-2. They haven't won fewer than 10 games since and have made three straight playoffs running Morris's offense. 

The schools you listed as traditional powers would have included Arkansas when Morris was growing up watching the SWC.  Arkansas was ahead of both Clemson and Auburn those days in terms of perception and tradition.  Watching the press conference today, I didn't get the impression that anyone has told Chad Morris that Arkansas can't recruit or compete with traditional powers. 

i totally agree with this post.  A few other things i think Morris brings that we haven't had before.

1. A cutting edge offense, and one that does not rely solely on the acquisition of 5 star players.
2. A coach with current status in the state of Texas, and not just "general" status like legendary status.  to top that off he is known in the one area where Hog fans live and breath like no other in Texas DFW.

Morris has a signature, a style, and it is very very current something i do not believe we have had in a long time.
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SchrodingersHog

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2017, 01:10:23 pm »

So...much...kool-aid

This is not a comment on the new coach.  I hope he does great.  This is a comment about some of the wildly optimistic posts.  Delusional posts like sleeping giant.

It's all reminiscent of the Bielema hiring.  So...much...kook-aid...then...too
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311Hog

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #80 on: December 07, 2017, 01:14:31 pm »

This is not a comment on the new coach.  I hope he does great.  This is a comment about some of the wildly optimistic posts.  Delusional posts like sleeping giant.

It's all reminiscent of the Bielema hiring.  So...much...kook-aid...then...too

it is what happens when all possibilities are still on the table.  And it isn't to hard to feel like the sky is the limit with this hire honestly, i am sure it won't play out that way as it rarely if ever does, but i expect a fair amount of success.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #81 on: December 07, 2017, 01:17:28 pm »

no just population. It's the number of quality D! football players & distance from fertile recruiting ground.  Parents want a reasonable drive to see their kids play.

Our population is not as much of a problem as is the demographics of our population. Almost identical population to Mississippi, yet MS produces almost 4 times the p5 talent as does AR.
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Swine-as-wine

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2017, 01:25:26 pm »

I wonder how many people move up there years ago to get away from the urban sprawl in other areas are now looking to get out of NWA for the same reason again.

There's not a city in NWA, that I would consider to have "urban sprawl". LOL
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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2017, 01:33:37 pm »

several problems with his statement:  This is not the SWC with only a few competitive teams a year.  Arkansas is not in close proximity to GA & the deep South where so many talented skill position athletes(some in TX) AND physical LB's & lineman live. 

You, hogsanity, the gentleman from Atlanta, and others will continue to insist that Arkansas can't compete until it does.  Maybe it never will.

There is a regional bias in recruiting rankings that is evidenced by Auburn's average near 10 and Arkansas's average near 27 during a 10 year run when the teams were even head to head.  Rankings don't exist for the ten years prior, but Arkansas and Auburn were even then as well. 

There is no doubt that teams from A&M east through the deep south have a recruiting advantage over Arkansas.  I never said they didn't.  What I will say is that Arkansas can compete with these teams and have done it before.  It takes the right coach.  We haven't had the right one in almost 30 years. I doubt Chad Morris sees it the way you do.   
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The Kig

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2017, 01:35:07 pm »

no just population. It's the number of quality D! football players & distance from fertile recruiting ground.  Parents want a reasonable drive to see their kids play.

Exactly...  Clemson is roughly 80 miles from where DeShaun Watson went to high school.   Atlanta is less than 2 hours away.  They are well positioned regionally to pick up talented players and have momma in the stands on Saturday.  Traveling to games is expensive and the costs go up quite a bit if you have to fly, get a hotel, etc.  Many parents, extended families simply don't have the resources... but still want the best for their kids.

Our challenge is less kids in a 2 hour radius are going to be D1 level.  However Dallas, Northern LA, Eastern OK, parts of Misery, even Memphis are relatively easy commutes and if the program is hot will attract regional players. 
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Paul

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2017, 01:36:06 pm »

You, hogsanity, the gentleman from Atlanta, and others will continue to insist that Arkansas can't compete until it does.  Maybe it never will.

There is a regional bias in recruiting rankings that is evidenced by Auburn's average near 10 and Arkansas's average near 27 during a 10 year run when the teams were even head to head.  Rankings don't exist for the ten years prior, but Arkansas and Auburn were even then as well. 

There is no doubt that teams from A&M east through the deep south have a recruiting advantage over Arkansas.  I never said they didn't.  What I will say is that Arkansas can compete with these teams and have done it before.  It takes the right coach.  We haven't had the right one in almost 30 years. I doubt Chad Morris sees it the way you do.   
If he doesn't recruit the deep South as he did while at Clemson, he'll have a hard role to hoe to be competitive
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2017, 01:54:53 pm »

You, hogsanity, the gentleman from Atlanta, and others will continue to insist that Arkansas can't compete until it does.  Maybe it never will.

There is a regional bias in recruiting rankings that is evidenced by Auburn's average near 10 and Arkansas's average near 27 during a 10 year run when the teams were even head to head.  Rankings don't exist for the ten years prior, but Arkansas and Auburn were even then as well. 

There is no doubt that teams from A&M east through the deep south have a recruiting advantage over Arkansas.  I never said they didn't.  What I will say is that Arkansas can compete with these teams and have done it before.  It takes the right coach.  We haven't had the right one in almost 30 years. I doubt Chad Morris sees it the way you do.   

Where did I say they can't compete? I though they competed in 14, 15, & 16. They took Bama to the wire, they took MSu to the wire when both were ranked #1. They beat LSU twice, once in Baton Rouge. They waged and lost 4 close games to A&M. They dominated TT at Lubbock, they beat TCU in Ft Worth. The beat OM twice when they were in the top 20. They lost to MSu 51-50 in Dax's last season.

I think maybe we are not using "compete" in the same sense. To me compete means to be able to play with, have a chance to beat teams. I think AR has done that more seasons than not. If by compete you mean consistently beat, then no I do not think they can do that without a huge change in recruiting.
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elksnort

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2017, 01:56:21 pm »

Should probably wait and see. Just a thought. We still have hurdles.
This board is reactionary and down right bi polar at times.
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Mjs84

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2017, 02:13:57 pm »

The lack of Little Rock talent is absolutely killing us.  They should be putting out at least 4 quality SEC players a year there.  So instead of only averaging 4-5 in-state guys a year, we would be averaging 8-9 which would put less pressure on us having to sign out of state kids.

The kids in LR with enough edge to play high level football are too far down the wrong path to have much of a future in anything that doesn't involve illegal activities.  Lots of good role models here, but also bad influences.
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NuttinbutMediocre

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #89 on: December 07, 2017, 02:24:04 pm »

I was referring to the guy who posted that the hot schools today were nothing 20-30 years ago, and that is simply not true. The top 10 has changed very little the past 2 or 3 decades.

As for the fence, BB said that, so did bp, so did hdn. They all say it in some way " gotta keep the Arkansas kids home ". I do not disagree, I just do not think it is nearly as many SEC level players as others seem to think.

Isn't the roster now made up of Ar, TX kids with a smattering from LA, OK, and elsewhere?

AR: 46, TX: 15, LA:14, FL:10 (drops off sharply for other states after that)

We've been missing the boat on TX.
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beardedgeego

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2017, 02:27:55 pm »

Clemson is in a very rich recruiting territory

Huh?  The best players come from the Florida swamps #1, Texas #2, California #3, the entire South #4. Looks to me like Arkansas is in a better spot than Clemson..... but what do I know
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Uncommon

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2017, 02:30:01 pm »

AR: 46, TX: 15, LA:14, FL:10 (drops off sharply for other states after that)

We've been missing the boat on TX.
This is the breakdown I have for the team next year so far:
18   Arkansas
10   Louisiana
9   Texas
7   Florida
4   Mississippi, Missouri, and Oklahoma
3   California and Georgia
1   Alabama, Arizona, Illinois, Iowa, and Tennessee

Did Cole Hedlund go through Senior Day festivities?  If so, that number in Texas goes down to 8.
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NuttinbutMediocre

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2017, 02:31:30 pm »

This is the breakdown I have:
18   Arkansas
10   Louisiana
9   Texas
7   Florida
4   Mississippi, Missouri, and Oklahoma
3   California and Georgia
1   Alabama, Arizona, Illinois, Iowa, and Tennessee

Did Cole Hedlund go through Senior Day festivities?  If so, that number in Texas goes down to 8.


I used this for a source: http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/sport/m-footbl/roster/
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rzrbackhogfan

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2017, 02:31:40 pm »

The lack of Little Rock talent is absolutely killing us.  They should be putting out at least 4 quality SEC players a year there.  So instead of only averaging 4-5 in-state guys a year, we would be averaging 8-9 which would put less pressure on us having to sign out of state kids.

Its not lack of talent its getting every player in state we can. 
2017 there were 21 D1 players to come out of AR.  Out of the 21 players 10 were from Central AR (47%).  Out of that 10, 4 players came to the U of A.  We lost players to (Navy
, Tulane, Iowa St, Baylor, S. Dakota St, and Louisiana Tech).  I think we confuse loss of talent from Central with the gain from other Little Rock Schools.  (Pulaski Academy, N Little Rock, LR Christian, Robinson) all these teams were good this year and has some of the top talent in the state on their teams. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2017, 02:32:33 pm »

AR: 46, TX: 15, LA:14, FL:10 (drops off sharply for other states after that)

We've been missing the boat on TX.

46 is WAY TOO many in state kids. Even allowing for 5 years, that is 9 per year. This state does not produce 9 SEC level players per year.
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Uncommon

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2017, 02:33:50 pm »

I used this for a source: http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/sport/m-footbl/roster/
Oh.  You took into account walk-ons as well.  That is why the Arkansas number is really high.  Like ridiculously high.
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DLUXHOG

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #96 on: December 07, 2017, 02:35:23 pm »

Will Morris be successful? Don’t know if he will but every hire is a gamble. Nutt fielded teams that weren’t loaded with 4 and 5 star talent and neither did Petrino but they were full with high 3 star players instead of middle to low 3 star players and we were very competitive.

I don’t know, but I certainly hope so...   he obviously made a mistake jumping from Clemson to SMU, however he now has a great opportunity to make some serious headway in the toughest conference in all of College football.    I wish him the best....   WPS!!
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elksnort

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #97 on: December 07, 2017, 02:38:32 pm »

The lack of Little Rock talent is absolutely killing us.  They should be putting out at least 4 quality SEC players a year there.  So instead of only averaging 4-5 in-state guys a year, we would be averaging 8-9 which would put less pressure on us having to sign out of state kids.
EXACTLY. Not to mention, consolidation (I know it's a bad word in Arkansas) needs to happen in much of rural Arkansas. I do think this might help some of these football programs. Look at a small place like Nashville. It seems like the Scrappers produce a d-1 guy if not every year, fairly often. Towns in the Delta, like Osceola, Blytheville, West Memphis, Marianna and Helena could do better at producing talent. But back to the original idea, Little Rock Central and Parkview used to produce some players.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #98 on: December 07, 2017, 02:41:44 pm »


Its not lack of talent its getting every player in state we can. 
2017 there were 21 D1 players to come out of AR.  Out of the 21 players 10 were from Central AR (47%).  Out of that 10, 4 players came to the U of A.  We lost players to (Navy
, Tulane, Iowa St, Baylor, S. Dakota St, and Louisiana Tech).  I think we confuse loss of talent from Central with the gain from other Little Rock Schools.  (Pulaski Academy, N Little Rock, LR Christian, Robinson) all these teams were good this year and has some of the top talent in the state on their teams. 

No.  Every player capable of contributing on an SEC level at positions where we don't have better prospects.  We out recruit those schools you listed too often and you will see what not competing really looks like. 


You, hogsanity, the gentleman from Atlanta, and others will continue to insist that Arkansas can't compete until it does.  Maybe it never will.

There is a regional bias in recruiting rankings that is evidenced by Auburn's average near 10 and Arkansas's average near 27 during a 10 year run when the teams were even head to head.  Rankings don't exist for the ten years prior, but Arkansas and Auburn were even then as well. 

There is no doubt that teams from A&M east through the deep south have a recruiting advantage over Arkansas.  I never said they didn't.  What I will say is that Arkansas can compete with these teams and have done it before.  It takes the right coach.  We haven't had the right one in almost 30 years. I doubt Chad Morris sees it the way you do.   

The right coach at the right time can recruit well enough to Arkansas to have competitive teams and on occasion one capable of winning the SECW (if we could get by Bama or when Saban leaves). 

Hatfield the right one?  He had a pitiful record in the few matchups he had with programs like OU, Auburn, UGA, Tennessee and UCLA.  We haven't been relevant since the early Holtz years which was still off the momentum from Broyles.  Even then, we were overmatched physically against Bear's last NC team.  What we face now is not even comparable to the situation we had in the SWC. 
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #99 on: December 07, 2017, 02:44:03 pm »

Its not lack of talent its getting every player in state we can. 
2017 there were 21 D1 players to come out of AR.  Out of the 21 players 10 were from Central AR (47%).  Out of that 10, 4 players came to the U of A.  We lost players to (Navy
, Tulane, Iowa St, Baylor, S. Dakota St, and Louisiana Tech).  I think we confuse loss of talent from Central with the gain from other Little Rock Schools.  (Pulaski Academy, N Little Rock, LR Christian, Robinson) all these teams were good this year and has some of the top talent in the state on their teams. 

Of the 21 d1 players, how many went to FBS SCHOOLS other than the UofA?
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