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Author Topic: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...  (Read 6020 times)

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BOAR'N LEGACY

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Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« on: December 06, 2017, 11:17:18 am »

I remember Alabama being horrible in football in the early 2000's.  Now look at their program.  They cherry pick recruits from ANYWHERE in the nation!  We now have an offensive mastermind as head coach.  Could you imagine what could happen if we hire a stud defensive coordinator!? He supposedly coaches up three stars,  which in turn will lead to 4 and 5 stars...and yes,  stars matter unless you find diamonds in the rough from small schools who are under evaluated.  We need to become a top 15 recruiting base if we want to make it.  This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters.  It will take time,  but not as long as you think.  Clemson had the same blueprint and look at them.  The future is looking bright!  WPS! 🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗
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Smashmouth2004

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 11:18:46 am »

Oh, I thought we were still talking about Bielema when I saw the title!
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The Kig

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 11:21:14 am »

So...much...kool-aid
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sevenof400

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 11:21:33 am »

Take your Ritalin, Garth.
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BOAR'N LEGACY

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 11:24:05 am »

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bphi11ips

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 11:24:13 am »

Iíve said this for years. Bob Stoops said it recently. Itís true. Giant as in Alabama?  Maybe not, but who would have thought Clemson would do what they did when Swinney and Morris arrived?
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HF#1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 11:25:17 am »

Should probably wait and see. Just a thought. We still have hurdles.
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HogHomer

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 11:25:38 am »

I remember Alabama being horrible in football in the early 2000's.  Now look at their program.  They cherry pick recruits from ANYWHERE in the nation!  We now have an offensive mastermind as head coach.  Could you imagine what could happen if we hire a stud defensive coordinator!? He supposedly coaches up three stars,  which in turn will lead to 4 and 5 stars...and yes,  stars matter unless you find diamonds in the rough from small schools who are under evaluated.  We need to become a top 15 recruiting base if we want to make it.  This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters.  It will take time,  but not as long as you think.  Clemson had the same blueprint and look at them.  The future is looking bright!  WPS! 🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗
So are you just going to find an extra 3 or 4 million people to place in arkansas to make us a top 15 recruiting base? Even then it probably still wouldn't be top 15. Also Bama was on probation and hired some awful awful coaches. Our situation is not like Bama or Clemson. Bama has the tradition even during their slump in 00s along with a strong recruiting base we don't have. Clemson is in a very rich recruiting territory. Both of these schools have something that unfortunately we can't do much about.
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Uncommon

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 11:26:12 am »

I don't know about that but the main message here is finding the right football coach is not a science.  You just have to keep trying.  Eventually, you may strike gold.  Look at Clemson.  Dabo was a wide receivers coach when he got the interim tag at Clemson before being the head guy.  Tennessee has had 12 years of mediocrity and have had a hard time finding a coach.  Same with UCLA.  It's all about the head coach.  Recruits will travel anywhere for a winner.
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BOAR'N LEGACY

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 11:28:19 am »

I don't know about that but the main message here is finding the right football coach is not a science.  You just have to keep trying.  Eventually, you may strike gold.  Look at Clemson.  Dabo was a wide receivers coach when he got the interim tag at Clemson before being the head guy.  Tennessee has had 12 years of mediocrity and have had a hard time finding a coach.  Same with UCLA.  It's all about the head coach.  Recruits will travel anywhere for a winner.

This
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Smashmouth2004

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2017, 11:28:45 am »

Will Morris be successful? Donít know if he will but every hire is a gamble. Nutt fielded teams that werenít loaded with 4 and 5 star talent and neither did Petrino but they were full with high 3 star players instead of middle to low 3 star players and we were very competitive.
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The NewEra

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2017, 11:30:47 am »

For the first time in a very long time it appears the PTB are willing to spend the money on a SEC quality coaching staff.  If that proves to be true, then a quick change in fortune could well happen.  I'm optimistically looking to the future as we get a read on what type of financial resources they will be giving CCM to work with.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 11:33:31 am »

Iíve said this for years. Bob Stoops said it recently. Itís true. Giant as in Alabama?  Maybe not, but who would have thought Clemson would do what they did when Swinney and Morris arrived?

Clemson - right here.  I thought it.  Not necessarily about Dabo.  But that program was underachieving after Ford.  Combination of recruiting draw, base and facilities compared to its conference and being in a basketball centric conference other than FSU and VT.  The Auburn of the ACC but with more of an advantage over competition.  Very different situtation from ours.

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Hogsfan1981

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 11:41:35 am »

Wow...4 years. He will cost us 4 years.
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code red

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2017, 11:46:26 am »

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Torqued pork

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2017, 11:46:46 am »

So...much...kool-aid
It's the lifeblood of Razorback football.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2017, 11:47:36 am »

So are you just going to find an extra 3 or 4 million people to place in arkansas to make us a top 15 recruiting base?

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.
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Uncommon

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2017, 11:49:53 am »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.
The lack of Little Rock talent is absolutely killing us.  They should be putting out at least 4 quality SEC players a year there.  So instead of only averaging 4-5 in-state guys a year, we would be averaging 8-9 which would put less pressure on us having to sign out of state kids.
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BOAR'N LEGACY

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2017, 11:50:42 am »

Wow...4 years. He will cost us 4 years.

Wow... 4(for) years.  He will coach us 4(for) years

FIFY
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GoHogzzGo

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2017, 11:52:13 am »

Iíve bought in on Chad Morris. But sleeping giant is a stretch lol. Given our natural recruiting area.

If we could just average 9 wins Iíd be super happy, and that is no giant.
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Memhogs

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2017, 11:52:18 am »

Oh, I thought we were still talking about Bielema when I saw the title!

HAH!
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GohogsGoWps

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2017, 11:53:09 am »

So are you just going to find an extra 3 or 4 million people to place in arkansas to make us a top 15 recruiting base? Even then it probably still wouldn't be top 15. Also Bama was on probation and hired some awful awful coaches. Our situation is not like Bama or Clemson. Bama has the tradition even during their slump in 00s along with a strong recruiting base we don't have. Clemson is in a very rich recruiting territory. Both of these schools have something that unfortunately we can't do much about.

We're only a couple of hurricanes away from moving the Louisiana/Houston population this way.
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Broken Trigger

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2017, 11:53:16 am »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.

Not to mention the rapid growth in NWA.  That population increases by several thousand a month.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2017, 11:54:32 am »

I remember Alabama being horrible in football in the early 2000's.  Now look at their program.  They cherry pick recruits from ANYWHERE in the nation!  We now have an offensive mastermind as head coach.  Could you imagine what could happen if we hire a stud defensive coordinator!? He supposedly coaches up three stars,  which in turn will lead to 4 and 5 stars...and yes,  stars matter unless you find diamonds in the rough from small schools who are under evaluated.  We need to become a top 15 recruiting base if we want to make it.  This is a home run hire,  and CCM has the money to hire great coordinators and recruiters.  It will take time,  but not as long as you think.  Clemson had the same blueprint and look at them.  The future is looking bright!  WPS! 🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Lol, A sleeping giant? It better wake up before it dies of sleep apnea.
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redneckfriend

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2017, 11:56:34 am »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.

Before you start throwing population numbers around you need to check demographics i.e. African-American populations- the heart and soul of any college football team.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2017, 11:57:16 am »

Not to mention the rapid growth in NWA.  That population increases by several thousand a month.

Also true. They are on track to crack the top 100 of metropolitan statistical areas (MSA) sometime in 2019.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2017, 11:57:33 am »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.

Auburn is in west Ga essentially.  100 miles to Atlanta and much closer than that to the southern burbs.  You might as well throw in Ga's population with them.  And the panhandle of Florida.  Bama and LSU in Mississippi.  LSU in east Texas.  It isn't just about in state.

It isn't just population either.  It's demographics.  The region in Arkansas with the largest schools, most money for programs and biggest participation numbers is the worst for demographics.  Little Rock/Pine Bluff need to step it up. 
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greenEGnHAWGS

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2017, 11:59:25 am »

Will Morris be successful? Donít know if he will but every hire is a gamble. Nutt fielded teams that werenít loaded with 4 and 5 star talent and neither did Petrino but they were full with high 3 star players instead of middle to low 3 star players and we were very competitive.

I donít remember how many 4/5*s each guy fielded, but both of these coaches had a game changing stud that came into their program from Arkansas in DMac and Mallett
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HogHomer

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2017, 12:03:17 pm »

The state of Alabama has 4.863 million people split between two Power 5 schools (Auburn/Alabama) which is about 2.43 million per school.

The state of Arkansas has 2.988 million people for only one Power 5 school. (Arkansas)

You could do a similar exercise for some other states such as Mississippi, Tennessee, South Carolina, etc.

Our population isn't as much of a problem as some people make it out to be, especially with our vicinity to other population centers in Texas, Tulsa, Kansas City, etc.
Our population is a factor when it only produces 4-5 SEC quality athletes on average a year. Tennessee, Mississippi, South Carolina have quite a few more SEC prospects each year. They don't have to go out of state and get 20 plus recruits which puts us at a huge disadvantage.

Yes NWA is growing but we are having to rely on one part of the state while the rest lag behind with poor educational and sport structure. Another disadvantage until the number of prospects per year increases.

You say we have Texas, Tulsa and Kansas City but we are also around 5th in the pecking order for those prospects.

All of this to say we are in a different situations than a Bama or a Clemson. Therefore you can't try and take their blueprints and apply it to our situation.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2017, 12:08:38 pm »

Before you start throwing population numbers around you need to check demographics i.e. African-American populations- the heart and soul of any college football team.

Well, that is not really a good argument either. There are plenty of schools getting it done that have less of an African American population than Arkansas does.

Arkansas is around 15.76% African American. (link)

Here are the teams that have made the college football playoffs since the 2015 inception:

Less than us:
Washington -- 3.74%
Ohio State -- 12.04%
Oklahoma -- 7.96%
Michigan St -- 14.24%
Oregon -- 2.01%

Essentially the same as us:
Florida State -- 15.91%

Greater than us:
Georgia -- 31.4%
Clemson (SC) -- 28.48%
Alabama -- 26.38%
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Hogtimes

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2017, 12:08:58 pm »

[quote author=The NewEra
For the first time in a very long time it appears the PTB are willing to spend the money on a SEC quality coaching staff.  If that proves to be true, then a quick change in fortune could well happen.  I'm optimistically looking to the future as we get a read on what type of financial resources they will be giving CCM to work with.
[/quote]

I thought they did that when we hired Bielema.
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2017, 12:10:56 pm »

Auburn is in west Ga essentially.  100 miles to Atlanta and much closer than that to the southern burbs.  You might as well throw in Ga's population with them.  And the panhandle of Florida.  Bama and LSU in Mississippi.  LSU in east Texas.  It isn't just about in state.

True, but if you are going to do that, then Fayetteville is close enough to Kansas City and Tulsa (some parts of Texas, etc.) that you could include those populations. It gets messy pretty quickly. The point was we are not in the population desert that some would say.
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Rocket23

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2017, 12:12:07 pm »

Alabama is located next to the fourth-best producer of D-1 talent in Georgia.  CBB did a terrible job of recruiting Texas.  We had 15 players from Texas.  Okie lite has something like 40 players from Texas.  That will be corrected with Morris.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2017, 12:13:16 pm »

True, but if you are going to do that, then Fayetteville is close enough to Kansas City and Tulsa (some parts of Texas, etc.) that you could include those populations. It gets messy pretty quickly. The point was we are not in the population desert that some would say.

Atlanta metro has 6 million people.  Tulsa has 600K?  We aren't in a desert.  It is why we can sign top 25-30 classes.  The giants sign top 1-15 classes. 
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2017, 12:15:27 pm »

Alabama is located next to the fourth-best producer of D-1 talent in Georgia.  CBB did a terrible job of recruiting Texas.  We had 15 players from Texas.  Okie lite has something like 40 players from Texas.  That will be corrected with Morris.

Okie Lite wouldn't physically make it in the SEC anywhere above mediocrity.  They recruit on nearly the same level we do in Texas.  They just take more of their second tier recruits from there.  If you look at recent Texas top 100s, not much of a difference in us. 
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NuttinItUp

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2017, 12:21:15 pm »

Atlanta metro has 6 million people.  Tulsa has 600K?  We aren't in a desert.  It is why we can sign top 25-30 classes.  The giants sign top 1-15 classes. 

According to google:
Atlanta metro population: 5,710,795

Dallas metro population: 7,233,323
Kansas City metro population: 2,159,159
Oklahoma City metro population: 1,373,211
Tulsa metro population: 961,561
Little Rock metro population: 724,385
NWA metro population: 525,032
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menehune

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2017, 12:22:34 pm »

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DeltaBoy

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2017, 12:23:18 pm »

I hope so !
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Gonzo

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2017, 12:23:19 pm »

Not to mention the rapid growth in NWA.  That population increases by several thousand a month.

Several thousand a month?

NWA metro area in 2010 - 463K, in 2016 - 525K.

62K growth in 6 years (72 months). It's growing certainly, but not at that rate.


Go Hogs!
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RazorChuck

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2017, 12:24:00 pm »

and apparently, Arkansas will remain asleep.
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hogsanity

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2017, 12:25:26 pm »

So are you just going to find an extra 3 or 4 million people to place in arkansas to make us a top 15 recruiting base?


People just do not get it, or they get it and do not want to admit it.
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HamGrowsOnTrees

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2017, 12:29:57 pm »

So...much...kool-aid

This 5 year cycle will be a lot like the last one. A lot of excuses every year.
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Atlhogfan1

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2017, 12:33:39 pm »

According to google:
Atlanta metro population: 5,710,795

Dallas metro population: 7,233,323
Kansas City metro population: 2,159,159
Oklahoma City metro population: 1,373,211
Tulsa metro population: 961,561
Little Rock metro population: 724,385
NWA metro population: 525,032

You are reaching.  Dallas 5 hour drive, KC 4, OKC 3, LR 3+ and provides little, Tulsa 2. 
For a program like AU or Clemson, Atl is 2.  SC Upstate is Clemson's home area.  AU is an hour from Montgomery.  The population and recruits are still closer. 
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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2017, 12:53:01 pm »

Iíve said this for years. Bob Stoops said it recently. Itís true. Giant as in Alabama?  Maybe not, but who would have thought Clemson would do what they did when Swinney and Morris arrived?

People who paid attention.    After all, they have had a real national title in the living memory of people under 50, before Dabo.
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GioB26

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2017, 01:11:42 pm »

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2017, 01:24:55 pm »

Arkansas can rise up like Clemson, but it will be because a coach figured out how to get get SEC playmakers and defenders from other states.
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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2017, 01:28:17 pm »

For a program like AU or Clemson, Atl is 2. 

Yeah, but Atlanta is split up amongst AU, Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, FSU, and probably others. The pie can only be sliced so many ways.

AU is an hour from Montgomery.  The population and recruits are still closer. 

Montgomery, AL population: 200,022

That is a big nothingburger.
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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2017, 01:31:32 pm »

We're only a couple of hurricanes away from moving the Louisiana/Houston population this way.

that's funny. tragic, but funny:)
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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2017, 02:32:30 pm »

Also true. They are on track to crack the top 100 of metropolitan statistical areas (MSA) sometime in 2019.

I wonder how many people move up there years ago to get away from the urban sprawl in other areas are now looking to get out of NWA for the same reason again.
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sevenof400

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Re: Arkansas is a sleeping GIANT...
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2017, 02:34:54 pm »

Clemson - right here.  I thought it.  Not necessarily about Dabo.  But that program was underachieving after Ford.  Combination of recruiting draw, base and facilities compared to its conference and being in a basketball centric conference other than FSU and VT.  The Auburn of the ACC but with more of an advantage over competition.  Very different situtation from ours.

Most definitely. 
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