Is it harder to win at Ark or So Carolina?

[JJHog]

thanks

[TransAmHawg]

Arkansas, we've got Dale.

[TulsaHogFan]

I would say So Co.  They have more competition for talent than Arkansas does. 

[An old hog fanatic]

It probably depends on who the coach is.

[slopinhogs]

yes :razorback:

[hawaiianhogster]

It's harder to win anywhere if you don't have a coach that can open up the offense and play against any kind of defense.

[ekyle1]

Gotta be So. Carolina....too many Div.1 schools in surrounding states to compete with for recruits.

[Razorback Pastor]

Arkansas


So.Car has a coach!

[razorback3072]

Here's the records of both teams since joining the SEC in 1992 including bowl games.  AR is 2-6 in bowls since '92 and SC is 4-1 in bowls since '92

SC  Overall-  83-93-1   SEC-  44-75-1

AR  Overall-  96-81-2   SEC-  57-61-2



IMO, SC has not traditionally had a whole lot of success even prior to joining the SEC where as AR was successfull on a fairly consistent basis prior to joining the SEC.  Therefore, the expectation is probably a lot higher here than at SC.  SC does play in the SEC East where during the most of the last 15 years, TN, GA and FL have all been pretty consistent.  Since "92, the SEC West has not had the consistency the East has had until the last few years.  Yes, there were dominant West teams but not 2-3 every year like the East had.  FWIW.

[AirForceHog]

2-6 really!

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

It's harder at SC because the fans aren't as passionate or maybe fanatical is the right word.  Although we tolerate Precious.  They tolerate 2-10 and 0-11 seasons.  They pack their stadium just because it's one fun party and there is nothing wrong with that.  The pressure was just not there to win on a consistent basis.  That attitude can translate to the team as well.  That doesn't mean they don't have passionate fans just not to the degree as the majority of the SEC.  Spurrier is trying to changing that by making sure the fans and players aren't satisfied with Music City bowl bids.

[Tomhog™]

Bowl records can be deceiving.  I'd be willing to bet that Arkansas' opponents were much more difficult than So. Car.  I'd say it's tougher to win at South Carolina.  The East is usually a tougher division than the West with perennial Florida, Tenn, and Georgia.

[Oklahawg]

South Carolina, and its not even close.

Recruiting vs. Clemson for in-state talent. That state has been cherry-picked by dozens of other teams for a long time. HDN has a much tighter leash on in-state talent than does Bowden or Spurrier.

The SEC East is tougher in that the the west almost always has two of the top 4 in a down year (LSU, Aubbie, Bama and Arkansas).

[ErieHog]

I'll go against the prevailing wisdom and say Arkansas.

South Carolina is among the top 10 states for producing NFL players;  yes, you have to compete for talent, but that is true for every team in every state (where did that D'Angelo Williams kid grow up again, and where did he play college ball?);  even if you don't get the elite within your state, it leaves you with a higher average quality remaining to fill your roster.   Likewise, you are a stone's throw from Georgia, where there is an embarrassment of riches, and are far enough from Florida for a recruit who wants to get away from home, but who wants to be able to drive home for Momma's cooking once or twice a year.

You have Vanderbilt and Kentucky every year, and you get a Mississippi school on your schedule 40% of the time.  You live in a division where probation is the rule, not the exception (provided you stay off it yourself)-- you have a better base stadium, and a fan base that shows up 80K strong, even when you are losing 9 or 10 games.   Like Arkansas, there is no in-state professional competition, and you are not competing within your own university with basketball for accolades and attention.   

[Dugann]

S Carolina for sure.  Even though they have good fans that always shows up, their program really never dose.  However I do think the old ball coach will have them in better shape then they have ever been in and might just get some winning started over there consistently.

[Junkyard Hog]

South Carolina

[Choctaw Hog]

It all depends on the coach.

[Tomhog™]

Bowl records can be deceiving.  I'd be willing to bet that Arkansas' opponents were much more difficult than So. Car.  I'd say it's tougher to win at South Carolina.  The East is usually a tougher division than the West with perennial Florida, Tenn, and Georgia.

I would bet that SC's bowl opponents were at least equal to ours over these years.  Who did we play?  UNLV, Mizzou, Minnesota, Texas on a down year, etc.  And we LOST most of them.

Texas, Michigan, Wisconsin were all tough teams.  I don't think SC has made the Citrus Bowl.  We've been there twice.

[rzrbckfan426]

The SEC East is traditionally tougher than the west and they have much more competition than we do for recruits year in and year out.

[Tusks]

Bowl records can be deceiving.  I'd be willing to bet that Arkansas' opponents were much more difficult than So. Car.  I'd say it's tougher to win at South Carolina.  The East is usually a tougher division than the West with perennial Florida, Tenn, and Georgia.

I would bet that SC's bowl opponents were at least equal to ours over these years.  Who did we play?  UNLV, Mizzou, Minnesota, Texas on a down year, etc.  And we LOST most of them.

Texas, Michigan, Wisconsin were all tough teams.  I don't think SC has made the Citrus Bowl.  We've been there twice.

I might be confused....which happens a LOT these days....but didn't USC(E) beat Ohio State twice in the Citrus Bowl under Holtz.


The answer to the original question....the right coach can win anywhere.

Steve Spurrier could win a SECC at Arkansas.

[Tammany Tom]

Not being an Arkansas or South Carolina fan I'll give you my unbiased opinion. I firmly believe that it is harder to win at So. Carolina. Why?

Arkansas has a much better tradition. Tradition does matter. One of the reasons you guys argue so much about your coach on this site is because of your tradition and the expectations of your fanbase. Expectations of the fanbase is extremely important in order to keep the administration in check and doing everything in their power to run a successful program.

Arkansas has far better facilities and a much better campus. While facilities are not everything, they do help attract today's players. This point isn't even debatable.

South Carolina has a much better in-state recruiting base, however that is off-set quite a bit since they do have to share that base with Clemson. So. Carolina is very close to Georgia and the Metro-Atlanta area, but they have to fight a lot of competition for those top-flight players. Georgia gets the cream of the crop. G-Tech does a very good job recruiting Metro Atlanta. Georgia is oh so important to Auburn's recruiting and Metro Atlanta is only 1 1/2 hours from Auburn. Tennessee does a very good job recruiting North Georgia as does Clemson.

Arkansas usually gets 10 of their top 15 players in-state (usually). The Arkansas recruiting base is getting better every year. The Dallas metro area and Texas is still there for Arkansas. While Metro Dallas-Ft. Worth and Texas is highly competitive just like Metro Atlanta, there are somewhere between 2 and 3 times the number of recruits to choose from in Texas over Georgia. I know that Texas and OU usually get the best, however there is plenty of room in Texas for LSU, Arkansas, and A&M to get their fair share of talent in that state. With a better recruiting plan and strategy in place for Arkansas in Texas, Arkansas can and should get 5-7 Top 150 players out of that state each and every year.

Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee, as a whole, are stronger and better programs to have to conquer every year for So. Carolina in the east than LSU, Auburn, and Alabama, as a whole, for Arkansas to have to conquer in the west. If you take Florida, Tenn, and Georgia's winning percentage over the past 15 years it would be much better than that of LSU, Alabama, and Auburn's. While the Mississippi schools are better than Vandy and Kentucky, they aren't that much better. 

I'm not including coaching in this equation, because I think both programs are equally capable of hiring good coaches. Throughout the years, coaches come and go, but good programs can and will flourish again after firing a poor coach. Yes, Spurrier is a far better coach than Nutt, but Arkansas is very capable of hiring a top-flight coach as well.

BTW, So. Carolina beat Ohio State twice in the Outback Bowl. Sorry, Hog fans, Arkansas is just awful in bowl games. Why, I have no idea. You should be much better. I always root for other SEC programs in bowl games and hope you change your bowl fortunes quickly.

[silvertip]

I'll go against the prevailing wisdom and say Arkansas.

South Carolina is among the top 10 states for producing NFL players;  yes, you have to compete for talent, but that is true for every team in every state (where did that D'Angelo Williams kid grow up again, and where did he play college ball?);  even if you don't get the elite within your state, it leaves you with a higher average quality remaining to fill your roster.   Likewise, you are a stone's throw from Georgia, where there is an embarrassment of riches, and are far enough from Florida for a recruit who wants to get away from home, but who wants to be able to drive home for Momma's cooking once or twice a year.

You have Vanderbilt and Kentucky every year, and you get a Mississippi school on your schedule 40% of the time.  You live in a division where probation is the rule, not the exception (provided you stay off it yourself)-- you have a better base stadium, and a fan base that shows up 80K strong, even when you are losing 9 or 10 games.   Like Arkansas, there is no in-state professional competition, and you are not competing within your own university with basketball for accolades and attention.  

Sheesh, Erie you ought to send your resume to Rick Shaeffer and Kevin Trainor. That is one impressive list of excuses.

What has BB got to do with anything? The Hogs BB and track programs actually help recruit FB players. Monk and Matt Jones are just 2 examples that joined up with the idea of playing BB. The track program helped recruit Ugoh, Carroll, and Grant among others.

So SC gets Vandy & KY every year? Well, Nutt sure has found those guys to be SO much easier than the Miss schools, huh?

Yeah, and "probation" has really slowed down TN, UGA, and FLA, right? WRONG. ADs in the SECE don't give out 2-year "free passes" for imaginary clouds.

And the "embarrassment of riches" in the talent in GA & FL is no more an advantage for SC, than is the wealth of talent in TX for Arkansas. Get over it.

It's a wash between SC and Arkansas as to who has more excuses. But I say HDN has an "advantage" over Spurrier in the sheer number, quality, and experience of "excuse makers" on his side.  WPS!!

[ErieHog]

I'll go against the prevailing wisdom and say Arkansas.

South Carolina is among the top 10 states for producing NFL players;  yes, you have to compete for talent, but that is true for every team in every state (where did that D'Angelo Williams kid grow up again, and where did he play college ball?);  even if you don't get the elite within your state, it leaves you with a higher average quality remaining to fill your roster.   Likewise, you are a stone's throw from Georgia, where there is an embarrassment of riches, and are far enough from Florida for a recruit who wants to get away from home, but who wants to be able to drive home for Momma's cooking once or twice a year.

You have Vanderbilt and Kentucky every year, and you get a Mississippi school on your schedule 40% of the time.  You live in a division where probation is the rule, not the exception (provided you stay off it yourself)-- you have a better base stadium, and a fan base that shows up 80K strong, even when you are losing 9 or 10 games.   Like Arkansas, there is no in-state professional competition, and you are not competing within your own university with basketball for accolades and attention.   

Sheesh, Erie you ought to send your resume to Rick Shaeffer and Kevin Trainor. That is one impressive list of excuses.

What has BB got to do with anything? The Hogs BB and track programs actually help recruit FB players. Monk and Matt Jones are just 2 examples that joined up with the idea of playing BB. The track program helped recruit Ugoh, Carroll, and Grant among others.

So SC gets Vandy & KY every year? Well, Nutt sure has found those guys to be SO much easier than the Miss schools, huh?

Yeah, and "probation" has really slowed down TN, UGA, and FLA, right? WRONG. ADs in the SECE don't give out 2-year "free passes" for imaginary clouds.

And the "embarrassment of riches" in the talent in GA & FL is no more an advantage for SC, than is the wealth of talent in TX for Arkansas. Get over it.

It's a wash between SC and Arkansas as to who has more excuses. But I say HDN has an "advantage" over Spurrier in the sheer number, quality, and experience of "excuse makers" on his side.  WPS!!

It's called argument, not 'excuses'-- and basketball is relevant, from the standpoint that if decisions are made on money and community attention, football always wins at SC, even when the football team is down and the basketball team is up.

Looking at the SEC-E, there is the problem of a ceiling;  and yes, being 3 hours from Atlanta is better than being 5 hours from Dallas.   

Both are difficult jobs;  winning at Arkansas is slightly harder, on the surface.

[VandyHog]

South Carolina.  In a small state, they have to compete against Clemson, Georgia and Tennessee in recruiting. In addition, Vanderbilt has been able to raid some top players out of South Carolina (Bobby Johnson coached at Clemson and Furman before going to Vandy). Plus you have some top-notch 1-AA (or whatever it is called now) programs in that vicinity, including Georgia Southern, App. State and Furman. And, of course, the Citadel.

By the way, since a comment was made about their fans, USC fans support that team come hell or high water. The stadium was just as packed during the 0-11 season as it has been during the Spurrier era. Beautiful place to watch a game if you've never been.

[razorback3072]

Bowl records can be deceiving.  I'd be willing to bet that Arkansas' opponents were much more difficult than So. Car.  I'd say it's tougher to win at South Carolina.  The East is usually a tougher division than the West with perennial Florida, Tenn, and Georgia.

SC
Carquest .........................West Virginia ................... Won ................ 24-21
Outback ...........................Ohio State ........................ Won ................ 24-7
Outback ...........................Ohio State ........................ Won ................ 31-28
Independence ..................Missouri .......................... Lost ................. 31-38
Liberty.............................Houston...........................Won...................44-36


AR
Carquest....................North Carolina.................Lost...............20-10
Citrus........................Michigan........................Lost................45-31
Cotton.......................Texas...........................Won................27-6
Las Vegas...................UNLV............................Lost................31-14
Cotton.......................Oklahoma.......................Lost................10-3
Music City..................Minnesota......................Lost.................29-14
Independence.............Missouri.........................Won..................27-14
Capital One................Wisconsin.......................Lost..................17-14


While we have had more bowl games, I would say the overall level of opponents have been about even.  Difference being we lost to several weak teams.

[Choctaw Hog]

Not being an Arkansas or South Carolina fan I'll give you my unbiased opinion. I firmly believe that it is harder to win at So. Carolina. Why?

Arkansas has a much better tradition. Tradition does matter. One of the reasons you guys argue so much about your coach on this site is because of your tradition and the expectations of your fanbase. Expectations of the fanbase is extremely important in order to keep the administration in check and doing everything in their power to run a successful program.

Arkansas has far better facilities and a much better campus. While facilities are not everything, they do help attract today's players. This point isn't even debatable.

South Carolina has a much better in-state recruiting base, however that is off-set quite a bit since they do have to share that base with Clemson. So. Carolina is very close to Georgia and the Metro-Atlanta area, but they have to fight a lot of competition for those top-flight players. Georgia gets the cream of the crop. G-Tech does a very good job recruiting Metro Atlanta. Georgia is oh so important to Auburn's recruiting and Metro Atlanta is only 1 1/2 hours from Auburn. Tennessee does a very good job recruiting North Georgia as does Clemson.

Arkansas usually gets 10 of their top 15 players in-state (usually). The Arkansas' recruiting base is getting better every year. The Dallas metro area and Texas is still there for Arkansas. While Metro Dallas-Ft. Worth and Texas is highly competitive just like Metro Atlanta, there are somewhere between 2 and 3 times the number of recruits to choose from in Texas over Georgia. I know that Texas and OU usually get the best, however there is plenty of room in Texas for LSU, Arkansas, and A&M to get their fair share of talent in that state. With a better recruiting plan and strategy in place for Arkansas in Texas, Arkansas can and should get 5-7 Top 150 players out of that state each and every year.

Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee, as a whole, are stronger and better programs to have to conquer every year for So. Carolina in the east than LSU, Auburn, and Alabama, as a whole, for Arkansas to have to conquer in the west. If you take Florida, Tenn, and Georgia's winning percentage over the past 15 years it would be much better than that of LSU, Alabama, and Auburn's. While the Mississippi schools are better than Vandy and Kentucky, they aren't that much better. 

I'm not including coaching in this equation, because I think both programs are equally capable of hiring good coaches. Throughout the years, coaches come and go, but good programs can and will flourish again after firing a poor coach. Yes, Spurrier is a far better coach than Nutt, but Arkansas is very capable of hiring a top-flight coach as well.

BTW, So. Carolina beat Ohio State twice in the Outback Bowl. Sorry, Hog fans, Arkansas is just awful in bowl games. Why, I have no idea. You should be much better. I always root for other SEC programs in bowl games and hope you change your bowl fortunes quickly.

Very good post and I agree with all that you say.  As far as Arkansas pathetic bowl record it boils down to coaching. A very good measure of a head coach is see how prepared his teams are for bowl games and I'll let Nutt's record speak for itself.  In Nutt's case he tends to rely on a one dimensional offensive attack centered around the athletic prowess of a individual player like a Matt Jones or a Darren McFadden.  Given enough time to prepare, most good coaches can develop a game plan to counter such a single threat. 

Ken Hatfield's poor bowl record is again directly related to the one dimensional offense he ran, the Wishbone.  The Wishbone worked the best from week to week when teams didn't have very much time to prepare for it.  However, given enough time to prepare for the Wishbone could often be contained. 

As an example, the 1977 Sooners were considered by many Sooners fans to be the best Wishbone offense ever at Oklahoma with Thomas Lott at QB, Kenny King at Fullback, and Billy Sims (Heisman Trophy Winner) and Elvis Peacock at the Halfback position with David Overstreet waiting in the wings.  Arkansas shut down the vaunted Sooner attack and shocked the college football world by thrashing the Sooners 31 - 6 in the Orange Bowl.

[hogfan064]

South Carolina's program can be divided into a few different time periods

1. 1892-early 1970s.  South Carolina was part of an ACC conference that at the time was very committed to academics.  None of the schools were real footballl powers and there were very strict academic requirements to get into school in the ACC.  Because of these strict requirements USC couldn't get the athletes it needed to be a national power and neither could any other ACC school. The ACC became much less strict in the mid 70s

2. 1973-1978-USC was in its first years of leaving the ACC and struggling as an independent.  The fanbase wasn't near as passionate as it was today and the talent level was poor.  USC's basketball program also went from national power to average due to leaving the ACC

3. 1979-1988-USC actually had a good football program during this period.  They had a Heisman winner in 1980 and in 84 they reached #2 nationally after a 9-0 start.   Joe Morrison was National COY twice by many publications in 84 and 87.  Jim Carlen fielded some very competetive teams.  South Carolina beat national powers like Michigan, Georgia, Pitt, Southern Cal, Notre Dame, and of course Clemson just to name a few.  No, they weren't a powerhouse in this period, but they were a good program.  This is when USC's fanbase became what many believe is the most loyal group around

4. 1988-1991-Joe Morrison dies suddenly of a heart attack and the program is forced to make a quick hire.  They go with Sparky Woods who inherits a top 25 team and brings the program down to mediocre level once again.

5. 1992-1999-USC joins the SEC and its obvious they don't have the guns to compete.  94 and 96 see teams with winning records, but for the most part USC struggles to stay even with Kentucky.  The low point was a 21 game losing streak.

6. 2000-present-USC makes great coaching hires with Holtz and Spurrier.  While USC hasn't been a power yet they have yet to lose to UK, MSU, or Vandy during this time period and have stayed fairly equal with Arkansas.   USC has beaten programs like UF, UT, and Bama during this time, but not consistantly.  They've had several bowl teams and are a team not to be taken lightly.   Holtz and Spurrier took USC from being the SEC worst team to being a bowl team in most years

[Hogs-n-Roses]

South Carolina, ask Lou Holtz. Heck ask Spurrier. After the game last year on their talk shows he was blasting, school ,players,and fans alike for not having a winning mentality.At the time I had never heard such a rant in my life. He called the players sorry, fans pitiful. He said "Heck Bob our fans clap and cheer when we lose, somehow we gotta stopem from that" its pitiful. He was right but it was terrible how he cut them down.

[mword]

It's harder to win anywhere if you don't have a coach that can open up the offense and play against any kind of defense.

Couldn't have said it any better

[hogfan064]

South Carolina, ask Lou Holtz. Heck ask Spurrier. After the game last year on their talk shows he was blasting, school ,players,and fans alike for not having a winning mentality.At the time I had never heard such a rant in my life. He called the players sorry, fans pitiful. He said "Heck Bob our fans clap and cheer when we lose, somehow we gotta stopem from that" its pitiful. He was right but it was terrible how he cut them down.

That was after the 7 point loss to #2 Auburn last year and he never called the players sorry.  What he said was that fans shouldn't clap for a team after a loss.  He stated the team and coaches didn't accomplish anything special that night and noone cheer for a loss.   He said "Same old South Carolina", but never once called a player or players sorry.

[Beaverfever]

S Carolina is quite a bit tougher.  Arkansas can be decent year in year out just living off in state talent and players from texas that the longhorns turn down.   

[Hogs-n-Roses]

South Carolina, ask Lou Holtz. Heck ask Spurrier. After the game last year on their talk shows he was blasting, school ,players,and fans alike for not having a winning mentality.At the time I had never heard such a rant in my life. He called the players sorry, fans pitiful. He said "Heck Bob our fans clap and cheer when we lose, somehow we gotta stopem from that" its pitiful. He was right but it was terrible how he cut them down.

That was after the 7 point loss to #2 Auburn last year and he never called the players sorry.  What he said was that fans shouldn't clap for a team after a loss.  He stated the team and coaches didn't accomplish anything special that night and none cheer for a loss.   He said "Same old South Carolina", but never once called a player or players sorry.

You are wrong, I was at the game and listened in the car outside the stadium. He did call the players sorry and I left out losers, he called both the fans and players losers. I was sitting in the car with Porkerpower and we both heard the same thing.

[ErieHog]

S Carolina is quite a bit tougher.  Arkansas can be decent year in year out just living off in state talent and players from texas that the longhorns turn down.   

Actually, no.   Arkansas has no better dominion over in-state talent than S. Carolina;  Tennessee has raided the state for kids like De Angelo, Auburn got two of our best,  USC-W has gotten kids;   throw in that South Carolina consistently churns out much better in-state talent than Arkansas, and it becomes painfully evident that this simply isn't true-- and being hours closer to both Georgia and North Carolina talent than Arkansas is to DFW easily outpaces the Texas leavings that Arkansas tends to get.

[hoggintheglory]

History says South Carolina---plus they have to put up with Spurrier.  He's a good coach when he's loaded with talent.  They will struggle this season---

[stronguard]

I actually took this question to mean is it harder for an SEC opponet to win @ Fayettville or @ Columbia.  I am pretty confident that it is tougher to win @ Columbia, Fayettville doesn't really have an intimidation factor yet, and probably won't with NuttyBuddy at the helm and JFB's high school classmates in the seats.

[Stella]

Arkansas because we have Nutt and USC has Spurrier.  Therefore, we are handicapped and it is harder to win here!

[hogfan064]

South Carolina, ask Lou Holtz. Heck ask Spurrier. After the game last year on their talk shows he was blasting, school ,players,and fans alike for not having a winning mentality.At the time I had never heard such a rant in my life. He called the players sorry, fans pitiful. He said "Heck Bob our fans clap and cheer when we lose, somehow we gotta stopem from that" its pitiful. He was right but it was terrible how he cut them down.

That was after the 7 point loss to #2 Auburn last year and he never called the players sorry.  What he said was that fans shouldn't clap for a team after a loss.  He stated the team and coaches didn't accomplish anything special that night and none cheer for a loss.   He said "Same old South Carolina", but never once called a player or players sorry.

You are wrong, I was at the game and listened in the car outside the stadium. He did call the players sorry and I left out losers, he called both the fans and players losers. I was sitting in the car with Porkerpower and we both heard the same thing.

I was at the game as well.  I've heard the interview many times living near Columbia and listening to USC talk shows all the time and have never once heard him insult a player.  He might have said the performance was sorry, but not that the players were sorry. 

[gohawgsgo]

South Carolina has one 10 win season in their history.  I did see a ACC championship flag from the 60's on our ESPN broadcast last year.  What is the series? 9-6?  They have a better area to recruit in and they do have a far better fan base, but lots more competition for players over that way too.  How do they turn out 90,000 every game to have seen only one 10 win season.  That is loyalty.

[WarEagle]

I think it is harder to win at SC, for the same reasons that several people have already stated.  As many have pointed out, historically, SC has had very little success, so there is not the same tradition or expectation of wins.  In their entire history, they have four bowl wins and only one conference championship.  Also, the competition of other schools taking "their" recruits (Clemson, etc) is stiffer than what Arkansas faces.  Plus, I think Arkansas has better facilities.

I do disagree with the poster who said that the SC fans are not passionate.  SC fans are among the most loyal and spirited I have ever seen.  They consistently sell out their stadium and are pretty loud.

I am very interested to see what Spurrier can do with them.  IMO, he is the most talented coach in the SEC in the last twenty-five years, hands down.  If he can't win there, I don't know if anyone can. 

On the other hand, I believe with the right coach, Arkansas could be a program on the same level as a Tennessee or Auburn.

[razorback93]

If you use the past as a guide, then you'd have to say South Carolina.  Arkansas has had success in the SEC (3 SECCGs).  SC is in more competitive division and has more competion for for recruits.  I agree that we could be on par with Auburn or Tenn with the right leadership.  I don't think that even Spurrier will have any consistent success there.

[hog.goblin]

Bowl records can be deceiving.  I'd be willing to bet that Arkansas' opponents were much more difficult than So. Car.  I'd say it's tougher to win at South Carolina.  The East is usually a tougher division than the West with perennial Florida, Tenn, and Georgia.

I would bet that SC's bowl opponents were at least equal to ours over these years.  Who did we play?  UNLV, Mizzou, Minnesota, Texas on a down year, etc.  And we LOST most of them.

Most of them?  We beat 2 of the 4 teams you mentioned.  Yes, we lost to the good teams you didn't mention.  And Texas was 9-2 before losing the last 3 games of the year.

[rzrbaxfan]

I'm going to say the jury is still out on this question... 

Both schools didn't set the SEC on fire when they joined....and a lot has changed about college football since then anyway.

Lou took SC from bottom to middle of the pack & we will find out this year or next if Spurrier can get them to turn the corner.

Nutt took us from the bottom to the middle of the pack.  Our stubborn admin either thinks he can turn that corner, or they are satisfied with where we are.

I think the right coach can take either program to the top of the SEC at least once every 5-8 years.  Both schools have some things that hamper their situations some and while that is realistic, too many use them as excuses... but like Spurrier said when he was hired: "Why not here?"  ...  Just wish more people would think that way. 

[hog.goblin]

I'm going to say the jury is still out on this question... 

Both schools didn't set the SEC on fire when they joined....and a lot has changed about college football since then anyway.

Lou took SC from bottom to middle of the pack & we will find out this year or next if Spurrier can get them to turn the corner.

Nutt took us from the bottom to the middle of the pack.  Our stubborn admin either thinks he can turn that corner, or they are satisfied with where we are.

I think the right coach can take either program to the top of the SEC at least once every 5-8 years.  Both schools have some things that hamper their situations some and while that is realistic, too many use them as excuses... but like Spurrier said when he was hired: "Why not here?"  ...  Just wish more people would think that way. 

+1...great post.  We'll see answers on HDN this year and Spurrier this year or next.  Those answers are exciting to me, regardless of what the answers might actually be.