Oklahoma must forfeit 2005 Season

[Break & Run]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2933008

[cosmodrum]

I kinda figured that...

[WilliamWallace]

lool, this has made my day

[HawgPilot]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

[The Marmot]

The Switzer Syndrome cannot be overcome.

[arklahoman36]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

[HoopHog]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

That's not how it went down for the Michigan basketball program. Weber and crew left Michigan, but the problem still rearred its ugly head.  The school got slammed and Chris Weber got pulled into the court room.  The NCAA will find someone out in LA to cooperate.

[russell33]

ok how does this affect them for the future? i just dont see the real punishment here. its not like they wont the national title that year and must forfeit that. slap on the wrist

[ineverlose]

If you ain't cheating, you're not trying.

[Stella]

Now, Nutt won more games than Stoops that year, but not by much!

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Best part is even having to forfeit an entire season, Stoop's record is much better than H.

[HoopHog]

ok how does this affect them for the future? i just dont see the real punishment here. its not like they wont the national title that year and must forfeit that. slap on the wrist

The ssnctions are pretty close to what the NCAA handed Arkansas for the exact same offense.  Prepare to hear Otis Kirk use this "black cloud" over the OU program as an excuse for less than stellar Arkansas recruiting classes.  He will exclaim..."that cloud inadvertantly drifted over the Arkansas border!"

[Dugann]

now if they just hit USC i'll be happy.

[russell33]

i wonder how long til the sooner fans start firebobstoops.com

[arklahoman36]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

That's not how it went down for the Michigan basketball program. Weber and crew left Michigan, but the problem still rearred its ugly head.  The school got slammed and Chris Weber got pulled into the court room.  The NCAA will find someone out in LA to cooperate.

That's because some people cooperated.
My bad for not making it clearer. No one involved with the Bush affair is cooperating.

In the Michigan affair, Webber was nailed for lying to the grand jury, by denying he ever accepted $$$ from a booster and then repaid it.

Webber suffered no penalty from the NCAA.
The school did acknowledge wrongdoing by players and ultimately the NCAA got information from the booster, via an FBI investigation into the booster's gambling operation.

Thus far, from what I've read, USC has basically stuck its head in the sand.

[HighonSwine]

I guess the 3 years it took to investigate us helped the NCAA determine in less than a year what to do to Oklahomo for roughly the same thing happening.  Glad we were able to help the NCAA resolve someone elses case 2 years "sooner" for the Sooners then what it took to resolve our case.

Maybe the next school that has this happen will be over and done in 6 months.

[HoopHog]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

That's not how it went down for the Michigan basketball program. Weber and crew left Michigan, but the problem still rearred its ugly head.  The school got slammed and Chris Weber got pulled into the court room.  The NCAA will find someone out in LA to cooperate.

That's because some people cooperated.
My bad for not making it clearer. No one involved with the Bush affair is cooperating.

In the Michigan affair, Webber was nailed for lying to the grand jury, by denying he ever accepted $$$ from a booster and then repaid it.

Webber suffered no penalty from the NCAA.
The school did acknowledge wrongdoing by players and ultimately the NCAA got information from the booster, via an FBI investigation into the booster's gambling operation.

Thus far, from what I've read, USC has basically stuck its head in the sand.

I see your point and the differences in the two situations.  Bravo!

[Jerk Pork]

I guess the 3 years it took to investigate us helped the NCAA determine in less than a year what to do to Oklahomo for roughly the same thing happening.  Glad we were able to help the NCAA resolve someone elses case 2 years "sooner" for the Sooners then what it took to resolve our case.

Maybe the next school that has this happen will be over and done in 6 months.

And the result of the 3 years to investigate gave us two 4 win seasons and basketball went down the tubes as well...Oh, I forgot we arn't supposed to use that as an excuse for the down years....

[Hugulus Hog]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

[Hogblog]

I guess the 3 years it took to investigate us helped the NCAA determine in less than a year what to do to Oklahomo for roughly the same thing happening.  Glad we were able to help the NCAA resolve someone elses case 2 years "sooner" for the Sooners then what it took to resolve our case.

Maybe the next school that has this happen will be over and done in 6 months.

And the result of the 3 years to investigate gave us two 4 win seasons and basketball went down the tubes as well...Oh, I forgot we arn't supposed to use that as an excuse for the down years....

See how quickly it's over and done when the school cooperates.........Frank is the reason the investigation took as long as it did. Dale is the reason for less than stellar recruiting, not the NCAA....

[arklahoman36]

"Those sanctions are in addition to those already self-imposed by Oklahoma, which has banned athletes from working at the car dealership until at least the 2008-09 academic year and has moved to prevent the athletes' supervisor at the dealership, Brad McRae, from being involved with the university's athletics program until at least August 2011."

So they can start working back there in a few years and the supervisor at the dealership can have contact when all of this is over?

Why don't they just announce they'll cheat like they've always done the day after the probation is over?

This is no different than when the NCAA accepted Arkansas' self-imposed sanction to disassociate with Ted Harrod until May 2007.

[oldbear]

It looks like they are not forfeiting (wins becoming losses)  they are just taking away the wins like it never happened.  Notice they did not say that Stoops's loss record goes up, just his win record goes down.  Wonder why?

[arklahoman36]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

When I said nothing will happen, USC was included in that.

The ONLY way something happens is 1) if a criminal investigation is started, and I don't see that happening. The investigation into the Michigan booster wasn't related to payments to a recruit or his family, it was a byproduct of that investigation.
2) Bush fails to settle with the last party that's said he will sue Bush.
Even if Bush doesn't want to ante up, I'm guessing there is a booster who will say, "I'll help out with a few $$$."
What is the NCAA going to do then?

[Hugulus Hog]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

When I said nothing will happen, USC was included in that.

The ONLY way something happens is 1) if a criminal investigation is started, and I don't see that happening. The investigation into the Michigan booster wasn't related to payments to a recruit or his family, it was a byproduct of that investigation.
2) Bush fails to settle with the last party that's said he will sue Bush.
Even if Bush doesn't want to ante up, I'm guessing there is a booster who will say, "I'll help out with a few $$$."
What is the NCAA going to do then?

I think we're in agreement. 

It chaps me that Reggie won't be stripped of the Heisman, USC won't be giving up any wins.  USC won't be giving up the national title they won with Reggie on the roster.  USC won't loose any scholarships or face any limitations on recruiting.

Self reporting and cooperating is what got OU in trouble.

[jbhicks]

In addition to having to forfeit the wins the 2005 season, they also loose 2 scholarships for 2008-2009 & 2009-2010 season!

[booogaga]

i wonder how long til the sooner fans start firebobstoops.com

lol

[Break & Run]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

When I said nothing will happen, USC was included in that.

The ONLY way something happens is 1) if a criminal investigation is started, and I don't see that happening. The investigation into the Michigan booster wasn't related to payments to a recruit or his family, it was a byproduct of that investigation.
2) Bush fails to settle with the last party that's said he will sue Bush.
Even if Bush doesn't want to ante up, I'm guessing there is a booster who will say, "I'll help out with a few $$$."
What is the NCAA going to do then?

I think we're in agreement. 

It chaps me that Reggie won't be stripped of the Heisman, USC won't be giving up any wins.  USC won't be giving up the national title they won with Reggie on the roster.  USC won't loose any scholarships or face any limitations on recruiting.

Self reporting and cooperating is what got OU in trouble.

chaps myy ass that USC doesnt make Reggie pay for the 3 yrs he was there..

[arklahoman36]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

When I said nothing will happen, USC was included in that.

The ONLY way something happens is 1) if a criminal investigation is started, and I don't see that happening. The investigation into the Michigan booster wasn't related to payments to a recruit or his family, it was a byproduct of that investigation.
2) Bush fails to settle with the last party that's said he will sue Bush.
Even if Bush doesn't want to ante up, I'm guessing there is a booster who will say, "I'll help out with a few $$$."
What is the NCAA going to do then?

I think we're in agreement. 

It chaps me that Reggie won't be stripped of the Heisman, USC won't be giving up any wins.  USC won't be giving up the national title they won with Reggie on the roster.  USC won't loose any scholarships or face any limitations on recruiting.

Self reporting and cooperating is what got OU in trouble.

chaps myy ass that USC doesnt make Reggie pay for the 3 yrs he was there..

But that would be acknowledging something inappropriate happened.

[Break & Run]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Nothing will happen. Because no one involved will cooperate.
No cooperate, no problems with the NCAA.
The NCAA has no subpeona power, and once a kid graduates, what are they going to do to him? Nothing, because they can't.

True, but USC won't face any consequences either.  Letting Reggie's agent hang out in the locker room is somehow totally ok.

More evidence that the NCAA is too in love with USC to enforce its own rules.

When I said nothing will happen, USC was included in that.

The ONLY way something happens is 1) if a criminal investigation is started, and I don't see that happening. The investigation into the Michigan booster wasn't related to payments to a recruit or his family, it was a byproduct of that investigation.
2) Bush fails to settle with the last party that's said he will sue Bush.
Even if Bush doesn't want to ante up, I'm guessing there is a booster who will say, "I'll help out with a few $$$."
What is the NCAA going to do then?

I think we're in agreement. 

It chaps me that Reggie won't be stripped of the Heisman, USC won't be giving up any wins.  USC won't be giving up the national title they won with Reggie on the roster.  USC won't loose any scholarships or face any limitations on recruiting.

Self reporting and cooperating is what got OU in trouble.

chaps myy ass that USC doesnt make Reggie pay for the 3 yrs he was there..

But that would be acknowledging something inappropriate happened.

crap! something DID happen!!!!  the NCAA is just too stupid to figure that out; kind of like Bud Selig and the steroids investigation!

[Jerk Pork]

I guess the 3 years it took to investigate us helped the NCAA determine in less than a year what to do to Oklahomo for roughly the same thing happening.  Glad we were able to help the NCAA resolve someone elses case 2 years "sooner" for the Sooners then what it took to resolve our case.

Maybe the next school that has this happen will be over and done in 6 months.

And the result of the 3 years to investigate gave us two 4 win seasons and basketball went down the tubes as well...Oh, I forgot we arn't supposed to use that as an excuse for the down years....

See how quickly it's over and done when the school cooperates.........Frank is the reason the investigation took as long as it did. Dale is the reason for less than stellar recruiting, not the NCAA....

Where did you hear that Frank held up anything. That would be breaking news. The NCAA said because of a divorce it was hard to get information out of the truck line. Do you really not think that an ongoing NCAA investigastion and possible probation would hurt recruiting.

[hogtusk]

In addition to having to forfeit the wins the 2005 season, they also loose 2 scholarships for 2008-2009 & 2009-2010 season!

The article doesn't say forfeit, it say vacate the 2005 season. I'm not sure what that means. Does it mean that the season didn't exist? No win or no losses? I don't think I have heard of that penalty before.
It may mean no wins for the season, but the losses count. The other teams wouldn't get credit for a victory. So their record would be 0-4 for the 2005 season.

[hogsanity]

OH, wow, that will show them.  Now, if they had to give back all the $ they made during that season, that would send a message.

[spudhog]

Makes you wonder if the coaches really pay attention to the kids when they are off the field.

[hogsanity]

Makes you wonder if the coaches really pay attention to the kids when they are off the field.

how do you pay attention to 100+ kids every hour of every day?

[spudhog]

OH, wow, that will show them.  Now, if they had to give back all the $ they made during that season, that would send a message.

You may be on to something.  Hit the schools where it counts. After all, many of these universities do not have huge a profit each year.

The question becomes...

Do you strip revenues?  If so?  Which football generated revenues do you strip?  Do you care if you harm other athletes at the university?

If you strip profits, do you take them all?  Would that even matter?

I see your point. You would hate to see some of these athletes not get full rides due to budget cuts. I know now that even ou has a couple stripped away for a few more years. Also, you would hate for some of those hardworking/underpaid assistants to have their salaries cut or have their job removed. Also, taking money away might lead to other non-profit bearing sports such as pretty much any women's sport (except softball and bball at ou).

[hogsanity]

OH, wow, that will show them.  Now, if they had to give back all the $ they made during that season, that would send a message.

You may be on to something.  Hit the schools where it counts. After all, many of these universities do not have huge a profit each year.

The question becomes...

Do you strip revenues?  If so?  Which football generated revenues do you strip?  Do you care if you harm other athletes at the university?

If you strip profits, do you take them all?  Would that even matter?

If nothing else, take the gate or some portion thereof.  These type of punishments dont seem to matter.  Heck, Ok was already in trouble whne this happened, the committee recommended hitting them with lack of institutional control, and were over ruled. 

Just do what the NFl does now, if a team fouls up they fine them.  Dont show up for a media event, 50K.  Don't make players available 75K.  Wear the wrong shoes 100k.  The nfl knows $$$$$$$$$$ is king.

So, maybe it hurts other programs, masybe these schools will finally get the message.

[spudhog]

Makes you wonder if the coaches really pay attention to the kids when they are off the field.

how do you pay attention to 100+ kids every hour of every day?

/quote]

That's what I was getting at. Hard to monitor these kids without private eyes. Just think that the kids sometimes should be held more accountable. Remove the dealerships ties to the u, punish the kid (being sent to 1 aa is a nice start) and punish any knowledgeable party's.

[arklahoman36]

In addition to having to forfeit the wins the 2005 season, they also loose 2 scholarships for 2008-2009 & 2009-2010 season!

The article doesn't say forfeit, it say vacate the 2005 season. I'm not sure what that means. Does it mean that the season didn't exist? No win or no losses? I don't think I have heard of that penalty before.
It may mean no wins for the season, but the losses count. The other teams wouldn't get credit for a victory. So their record would be 0-4 for the 2005 season.

The 0-4 is what's being reported now, after news orgs reported forfeit without making sure forfeit and vacate meant the same thing.

[arklahoman36]

Makes you wonder if the coaches really pay attention to the kids when they are off the field.

how do you pay attention to 100+ kids every hour of every day?

Only 85 are on scholarship.

Have to account for walk-ons too.
One of the three players referenced by the NCAA in regard to OU was a walk-on.

[judgeroyswine]

Boo-hoo for OU. 

The truth is, in terms of football issues, I don't have it within me to feel sorry for the Sooners. 

[Oklahawg]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.

[russell33]

i guess oklahoma cant run the highlights of that 05 season on the 2 brand new HD jumbotrons they are installing in norman. i just dont see the punishment except for maybe embarassing them.

if i were a sooner fan i would be happy, nothing major at all.

[hogs25]

Is it really that big of a deal for OU?  Oh no, not the 2005 season.  Who remembers what their record was before the eraser?  I agree it's not good news for them but after we went through a 3+ year investigation this doesn't seem that bad.  With all the success they had in the '80's with their head coach from Crossett I don't think they'll (the fans) lose any sleep over it.

[arklahoman36]

Boo-hoo for OU. 

The truth is, in terms of football issues, I don't have it within me to feel sorry for the Sooners. 

As an OU fan, I don't have a lot of sympathy either.

After Kelvin Sampson's BS with the basketball program, the compliance officials should have been more aware of the possibilities of inappropriate behavior. It was an employer that lots of players had worked for in the past, it should have been watched closer than others.

[HoopHog]

Arkansas isn't far away from this.  Don't be surprised if we happen to see the hammer come down on us, yet again!  Good ole boy networks aren't BIG into reform.

[BigDeal]

Anyone heard an update on USC/Reggie Bush deal?  Seems like it kinda "went away"...

Interesting. If USC has to forfeit the 2005 season, that would mean we are 1 - 1 against them under Nutt.

[NWASooner]

These penalties are essentially worthless.  Who cares about the 2005 season?  I care about the 2007, 2008, 2009, etc.  Nothing they did effects those seasons.

They couldn't honestly bring the hammer down on OU without doing the same thing to USC and/or Ohio State.  Those three programs are big money makers.

[OklaU]

Dang you mean we don't get to count the wins in our worst season in 8 years?  And that Holiday Bowl trophey looked good in trophey case if it ever even made it in there.

This is great if you ask me, I mean you "take away" our wins against...well that season the only I really remember was Oregon.  Now the scholarships that are taken away I guess may hurt a bit, one on each side of the ball.  Maybe not.

Sounds like a good deal, considering how bad it could have been.

As for USC and OSU....it's coming.  The NCAA has only like 3 guys who can really get after it and punish these guys, it just takes time.

[DeltaBoy]

That SUXS!

[OklaU]

This is even better:  even though OU must give up the wins, the other teams that OU played must still register it as a lost.  There just isn't a winner in those games.  Just as if when USC forfeits the BCS championship game in 2004 OU still has to consider it a lost and no one earns the title.