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Tuscaloosa vs. Fayetteville; What's The Difference?

Started by RazorbackAlways, September 20, 2017, 09:51:05 pm

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RazorbackAlways

September 20, 2017, 09:51:05 pm Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 10:17:49 pm by RazorbackAlways
Some people here keep saying Arkansas is not a destination program. Please give three reasons why Tuscaloosa is better than Fayetteville outside of history/Bear Bryant. Why cant Arkansas be a destination school? And how can we make it so? And also, why do all the greats come from Arkansas or have been here, but never stay here? (i.e., Johnson, Switzer, Bryant, Holtz, etc.)

Im going to give you my take:

1. Low Expectations vs. High Expectations. The State of Alabama depends on football, especially the team out of Tuscaloosa. But dont count out Auburn. Listen to some on this board. 7 win seasons, 8 win seasons, theyre satisfied. Coaching mediocrity, theyre satisfied. Alabama doesnt settle. Alabama hasnt got a damn thing to offer. Just 30 mins outside of UA is the worlds largest corporation.

2. Head Coach Matters. Big name? Yes, please. Media attention? Yes. The entire program is fully focused on winning.

3. Brand Recognition. Alabama has built a brand when it comes to NCAAF. Elite schools with money are generally places like USC, Texas, and Michigan. Alabama built its brand by becoming the best in the business.

PorkRinds


 

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: RazorbackAlways on September 20, 2017, 09:51:05 pm
Some people here keep saying Arkansas is not a destination program. Please give three reasons why Tuscaloosa is better than Fayetteville outside of history/Bear Bryant. Why cant Arkansas be a destination school? And how can we make it so? And also, why do all the greats come from Arkansas or have been here, but never stay here? (i.e., Johnson, Switzer, Bryant, Holtz, etc.)

I will answer the second question for you on Johnson, Switzer and Holtz....

Frank Broyles

PRJ

RazorPiggie

Tuscaloosa is closer to talent. Plain and simple.

Plus they have the best coach in the game.

ChicoHog

Bear Bryant, Nick Saban and location.  Pretty simple. 

The Boar War

Because Alabama took advantage when situations presented themselves. 

Ragnar Hogbrok

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." ― H.L. Mencken

Hogville prediction formula:

1.  Insert bad news prediction. A loss, a recruit going elsewhere, a coach leaving, etc.
2.  Tag "hope I'm wrong," on the end.
3a.  Enjoy a correct prediction.
3b.  Act like you're relieved you're wrong and celebrate with everyone else.

RazorbackAlways

Im going to give you my take:

1. Low Expectations vs. High Expectations. The State of Alabama depends on football, especially the team out of Tuscaloosa. But dont count out Auburn. Listen to some on this board. 7 win seasons, 8 win seasons, theyre satisfied. Coaching mediocrity, theyre satisfied. Alabama doesnt settle. Alabama hasnt got a damn thing to offer. Just 30 mins outside of UA is the worlds largest corporation.

2. Head Coach Matters. Big name? Yes, please. Media attention? Yes. The entire program is fully focused on winning.

3. Brand Recognition. Alabama has built a brand when it comes to NCAAF. Elite schools with money are generally places like USC, Texas, and Michigan. Alabama built its brand by becoming the best in the business.

RockyMtnHog

Only one answer needed: A Winning Team Cures All Ills!
"On the Eighth Day, God created the Razorbacks!"

Sed76

Also throw in kids getting brand new Dodge Challengers and guys getting arrested and having the charges disappearing for mysterious reasons. Screw the fact a lot of guys will sit the bench and never sniff the field but they have a great shot at a ring.

GoHogs1091

Elite head coaching.

Elite recruiting.

All football business, 24/7.  No twittering out recipes, and no Justin Moore concerts.

PorkRinds

Quote from: RazorbackAlways on September 20, 2017, 10:13:42 pm
Im going to give you my take:

1. Low Expectations vs. High Expectations. The State of Alabama depends on football, especially the team out of Tuscaloosa. But dont count out Auburn. Listen to some on this board. 7 win seasons, 8 win seasons, theyre satisfied. Coaching mediocrity, theyre satisfied. Alabama doesnt settle. Alabama hasnt got a damn thing to offer. Just 30 mins outside of UA is the worlds largest corporation.

2. Head Coach Matters. Big name? Yes, please. Media attention? Yes. The entire program is fully focused on winning.

3. Brand Recognition. Alabama has built a brand when it comes to NCAAF. Elite schools with money are generally places like USC, Texas, and Michigan. Alabama built its brand by becoming the best in the business.

Terrible hypothesis imo.

RazorbackAlways


 

Albert Einswine

Bama has a higher payroll than the Dallas Cowboys, and thus a much better team.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

Wildhog

Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

1highhog

Quote from: RazorbackAlways on September 20, 2017, 09:51:05 pm
Some people here keep saying Arkansas is not a destination program. Please give three reasons why Tuscaloosa is better than Fayetteville outside of history/Bear Bryant. Why cant Arkansas be a destination school? And how can we make it so? And also, why do all the greats come from Arkansas or have been here, but never stay here? (i.e., Johnson, Switzer, Bryant, Holtz, etc.)

Im going to give you my take:

1. Low Expectations vs. High Expectations. The State of Alabama depends on football, especially the team out of Tuscaloosa. But dont count out Auburn. Listen to some on this board. 7 win seasons, 8 win seasons, theyre satisfied. Coaching mediocrity, theyre satisfied. Alabama doesnt settle. Alabama hasnt got a damn thing to offer. Just 30 mins outside of UA is the worlds largest corporation.

2. Head Coach Matters. Big name? Yes, please. Media attention? Yes. The entire program is fully focused on winning.

3. Brand Recognition. Alabama has built a brand when it comes to NCAAF. Elite schools with money are generally places like USC, Texas, and Michigan. Alabama built its brand by becoming the best in the business.

It doesn't have as much to do with the school as it does where each school is located.  In 2017 the estimated populations for both States are stated: Alabama has a total population 4,779,736.  Of that number 3,275,394 are white, 1,251,311 are African American ,  and the rest are a mix of Latin American, Asian, and others.   Arkansas on the other hand has a population of  2,915,918, of that number 2,245,229 are white and 449,895 are African American and the rest are Latin American, Asian, and others.

The point can be made that Arkansas has a rather low population to draw from when it comes to recruiting talent than a state like Alabama, even though Alabama is not a big state in itself.  But Alabama is surrounded by states that are huge in population density and Arkansas is not, also consider the fact of the instate recruiting, Arkansas has a very small population when it comes to blacks, only around 450,000 for the whole state compared to around 1,300,000 for Alabama.  Like it or not, blacks make up the majority of football and basketball in today's sports programs so Arkansas is always going to take a backseat when it comes to recruiting against most of our SEC breatheren.

ICEman

Alabama is forever enshrined in a very classic Rock/Blues anthem...🎶 they got a name for the winners in the world, I want a name when I lose, they call Alabama the Crimson Tide, call me Deacon Blues. ~ Steely Dan
"College football is a sport that bears the same relation to education that bullfighting does to agriculture."

IronHog

Quote from: RazorbackAlways on September 20, 2017, 09:51:05 pm
Some people here keep saying Arkansas is not a destination program. Please give three reasons why Tuscaloosa is better than Fayetteville outside of history/Bear Bryant. Why cant Arkansas be a destination school? And how can we make it so? And also, why do all the greats come from Arkansas or have been here, but never stay here? (i.e., Johnson, Switzer, Bryant, Holtz, etc.)

Im going to give you my take:

1. Low Expectations vs. High Expectations. The State of Alabama depends on football, especially the team out of Tuscaloosa. But dont count out Auburn. Listen to some on this board. 7 win seasons, 8 win seasons, theyre satisfied. Coaching mediocrity, theyre satisfied. Alabama doesnt settle. Alabama hasnt got a damn thing to offer. Just 30 mins outside of UA is the worlds largest corporation.

2. Head Coach Matters. Big name? Yes, please. Media attention? Yes. The entire program is fully focused on winning.

3. Brand Recognition. Alabama has built a brand when it comes to NCAAF. Elite schools with money are generally places like USC, Texas, and Michigan. Alabama built its brand by becoming the best in the business.



University of Alabama is smack dab in the middle of the black belt.  This is a real thing....google it.  Best football players live there......,


University of Arkansas is in the Boston Mountains.  Boston mountains is a backwater of HS football.
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

NotSoFastMyFriend

Any response that doesn't include the phrase "proximity to talent" is woefully erroneous.

3kgthog

Quote from: Sed76 on September 20, 2017, 10:47:39 pm
Also throw in kids getting brand new Dodge Challengers and guys getting arrested and having the charges disappearing for mysterious reasons. Screw the fact a lot of guys will sit the bench and never sniff the field but they have a great shot at a ring.

This. They don't even try to hide it anymore. Untouchable comes to mind.

Ex-Trumpet

Arkansas may not be a destination program but since Frank Broyles, all coaches left Fayetteville for immediate jobs that were not as good as the one they had (Hatfield being the exception).

Holtz:  UA to Minnesota
Hatfield:  Clemson
Crowe:  Baylor OC
Ford:  Retired
Nutt:  Ole Miss
Petrino:  Western KY
Jonelle:  Doesn't count
Bielema:  Uncommon

With the exception of Hatfield to Clemson (which at the time was probably lateral at best) all the other coaches left with tails between their legs. 

And Nutt to Ole Miss...not since the Israelites left Egypt with the Egyptians' gold has there been such a coop!

What does that say?  Does UA chew 'em up and spit 'em out?
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

The Boar War

Quote from: NotSoFastMyFriend on September 21, 2017, 07:38:33 am
Any response that doesn't include the phrase "proximity to talent" is woefully erroneous.

I know this changes the discussion somewhat but how does one explain Fayetteville vs Norman?

Ex-Trumpet

Quote from: The Boar War on September 21, 2017, 07:57:00 am
I know this changes the discussion somewhat but how does one explain Fayetteville vs Norman?

Easy.  We don't play the most talented guys!



Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

Al Boarland

1. Tradition
2. Recruits pass 3/4 other schools closer to home, with more tradition, on the way to Fayetteville.

 

Hoggish1

The thread title is deceiving. If it's 7about the town, there is absolutely no  comparison; Tuscaloosa is a dump and that'she being kind.

CPO Hog

Quote from: The Boar War on September 21, 2017, 07:57:00 am
I know this changes the discussion somewhat but how does one explain Fayetteville vs Norman?
I live close to Norman which is 20 min for downtown OKC. The OKC metro is 1.4M. OU makes Bama look like rookies when it comes to "taking care" of it's players.

GunnerHawg70

Quote from: 1highhog on September 20, 2017, 11:35:03 pm
It doesn't have as much to do with the school as it does where each school is located.  In 2017 the estimated populations for both States are stated: Alabama has a total population 4,779,736.  Of that number 3,275,394 are white, 1,251,311 are African American ,  and the rest are a mix of Latin American, Asian, and others.   Arkansas on the other hand has a population of  2,915,918, of that number 2,245,229 are white and 449,895 are African American and the rest are Latin American, Asian, and others.

The point can be made that Arkansas has a rather low population to draw from when it comes to recruiting talent than a state like Alabama, even though Alabama is not a big state in itself.  But Alabama is surrounded by states that are huge in population density and Arkansas is not, also consider the fact of the instate recruiting, Arkansas has a very small population when it comes to blacks, only around 450,000 for the whole state compared to around 1,300,000 for Alabama.  Like it or not, blacks make up the majority of football and basketball in today's sports programs so Arkansas is always going to take a backseat when it comes to recruiting against most of our SEC breatheren.
Now that's some stats for your arse!!! It's a hard truth when you break out demographics. To add to this point, even the talented white players are more abundant in Alabama than in Arkansas. So that should answer the OP's question of the comparison of Tuscaloosa and Fayetteville

HighcountryHog

The team the fans follow in Tuscaloosa is actually good.
no bumps, no fat chicks

RazorPiggie

Quote from: The Boar War on September 21, 2017, 07:57:00 am
I know this changes the discussion somewhat but how does one explain Fayetteville vs Norman?

Tradition and playing several games a year in the state of Texas.

Al Boarland

Quote from: GunnerHawg70 on September 21, 2017, 08:18:28 am
Now that's some stats for your arse!!! It's a hard truth when you break out demographics. To add to this point, even the talented white players are more abundant in Alabama than in Arkansas. So that should answer the OP's question of the comparison of Tuscaloosa and Fayetteville

They don't want to hear it because it really leaves no hope. That's why the these types of questions get asked regularly.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: 1highhog on September 20, 2017, 11:35:03 pm
It doesn't have as much to do with the school as it does where each school is located.  In 2017 the estimated populations for both States are stated: Alabama has a total population 4,779,736.  Of that number 3,275,394 are white, 1,251,311 are African American ,  and the rest are a mix of Latin American, Asian, and others.   Arkansas on the other hand has a population of  2,915,918, of that number 2,245,229 are white and 449,895 are African American and the rest are Latin American, Asian, and others.

The point can be made that Arkansas has a rather low population to draw from when it comes to recruiting talent than a state like Alabama, even though Alabama is not a big state in itself.  But Alabama is surrounded by states that are huge in population density and Arkansas is not, also consider the fact of the instate recruiting, Arkansas has a very small population when it comes to blacks, only around 450,000 for the whole state compared to around 1,300,000 for Alabama.  Like it or not, blacks make up the majority of football and basketball in today's sports programs so Arkansas is always going to take a backseat when it comes to recruiting against most of our SEC breatheren.

Arkansas borders a state that has more population than any state that borders Bama as does Oklahoma,  what's the difference between us and Oklahoma?  Oklahoma built and sustained a brand, we let ours disappear.  Too the north of us is a state that has more population than Bama and is pretty open for recruitment.  We are doing good in Louisiana...

What was your point again besides "lil ole Arkansas"?

The_Iceman

"Why can't we be Bama?" Ugh, shaking my head at all the stupidity on here. That's like asking, why can't I marry Taylor Swift or Emma Stone?

Wake up and realize what we are as a program. Can we compete every so often? Sure. But to say we can be a 10 win program every year competing for the SEC and National Title is just stupid on to the highest degree.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: NotSoFastMyFriend on September 21, 2017, 07:38:33 am
Any response that doesn't include the phrase "proximity to talent" is woefully erroneous.

No it's not, that can, has and will be overcome in the past, present and future.  It's just a factor that's all it is.

hoggusamoungus


Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 21, 2017, 08:40:23 am
"Why can't we be Bama?" Ugh, shaking my head at all the stupidity on here.

That's like asking, why can't I marry Taylor Swift or Emma Stone? Wake up and realize what we are as a program. Can we co.pete every so often? Sure. But to say we can be a 10 win program every year competing for the SEC and National Title is just stupid on to the highest degree.

So our goal shouldn't be to beat Bama?  Ha I like the one "let's just try beating ULM first".  That's more up our alley.

Razorbackers

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on September 21, 2017, 07:51:53 am
Arkansas may not be a destination program but since Frank Broyles, all coaches left Fayetteville for immediate jobs that were not as good as the one they had (Hatfield being the exception).

Holtz:  UA to Minnesota
Hatfield:  Clemson
Crowe:  Baylor OC
Ford:  Retired
Nutt:  Ole Miss
Petrino:  Western KY
Jonelle:  Doesn't count
Bielema:  Uncommon

With the exception of Hatfield to Clemson (which at the time was probably lateral at best) all the other coaches left with tails between their legs. 

And Nutt to Ole Miss...not since the Israelites left Egypt with the Egyptians' gold has there been such a coop!

What does that say?  Does UA chew 'em up and spit 'em out?

We are a tough place to win and win consistently, but we're rich and can pay you to come try. lol.

RazorbackAlways

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 21, 2017, 08:40:23 am
"Why can't we be Bama?" Ugh, shaking my head at all the stupidity on here. That's like asking, why can't I marry Taylor Swift or Emma Stone?

Wake up and realize what we are as a program. Can we compete every so often? Sure. But to say we can be a 10 win program every year competing for the SEC and National Title is just stupid on to the highest degree.

Taylor Swift. Yes, yourre right, chances are zero to none. But, Alabama isnt Taylor Swift. Its more like the girl down the street. If you said USC, Texas, or Michigan, Id say Taylor Swift is a good analogy. Those schools have lots of money and excellent academia. Alabama is a backwards state in the middle of the Old South. Id venture to say Arkansas is more accepting and progressive despite its Southern roots.

hogsanity

Many here refuse to accept the proximity to talent FACT because it is one thing that CAN NOT BE FIXED. Coaches can be replaced, Ad's can be replaced. Offensive scheme can be changed. Defense sets can be changed. But none of those matter if many of your opponents just have better players and deeper talent.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on September 21, 2017, 09:29:25 am
Many here refuse to accept the proximity to talent FACT because it is one thing that CAN NOT BE FIXED. Coaches can be replaced, Ad's can be replaced. Offensive scheme can be changed. Defense sets can be changed. But none of those matter if many of your opponents just have better players and deeper talent.

You can be better at QB


Example 1A:  Bobby Martha Francis Petrino
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on September 21, 2017, 09:30:39 am
You can be better at QB


Example 1A:  Bobby Martha Francis Petrino

Sure, and the next time this state produces 10 nfl draft picks in a 2 year span, that coach will probably have a couple good years right after that too.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on September 21, 2017, 09:36:55 am
Sure, and the next time this state produces 10 nfl draft picks in a 2 year span, that coach will probably have a couple good years right after that too.

Bobby would have gone and got what he needed and there would have been some lowbrow studs in the group.  That's what we are missing now.  And yes we do refuse to accept you excuses for fielding a team that is losing to Lessor teams.

geauxhawgs

Quote from: RazorPiggie on September 20, 2017, 10:00:28 pm
Tuscaloosa is closer to talent. Plain and simple.

Plus they have the best coach in the game.

Agree to disagree. We share a border with four (TX, OK, LA, TN) of the top high school football states in America. I will say that Arkansas as a state is not committed to High School football how we should be in order to have a top tier program at U of A just based of comparison to these other states that are clearly all in. Little Rock, South Arkansas and the Delta in particular have good athletes, they are just not being put in a great situation and they're not being developed.

geauxhawgs

Quote from: CPO Hog on September 21, 2017, 08:17:53 am
I live close to Norman which is 20 min for downtown OKC. The OKC metro is 1.4M. OU makes Bama look like rookies when it comes to "taking care" of it's players.

This is a true statement.

311Hog

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on September 21, 2017, 08:06:17 am
Easy.  We don't play the most talented guys!





i swear i could watch this gif for hours lol...

MountainHomeHogger


311Hog

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on September 21, 2017, 09:56:38 am
Bobby would have gone and got what he needed and there would have been some lowbrow studs in the group.  That's what we are missing now.  And yes we do refuse to accept you excuses for fielding a team that is losing to Lessor teams.

didnt you know Bobby Patrino is the QB Jesus he woulda turned Robert Johnson into Dante Culpepper, he woulda turned Casey Dick into Tom Brady.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: geauxhawgs on September 21, 2017, 10:25:16 am
Agree to disagree. We share a border with four (TX, OK, LA, TN) of the top high school football states in America. I will say that Arkansas as a state is not committed to High School football how we should be in order to have a top tier program at U of A just based of comparison to these other states that are clearly all in. Little Rock, South Arkansas and the Delta in particular have good athletes, they are just not being put in a great situation and they're not being developed.

We share a border with them, sure. But Fayetteville isn't in the middle of the state. The biggest Metro area closest to our state in Louisiana is what, Shreveport? Shreveport to Fay is 5.5 hrs 311 miles.

Little Rock is now a basketball city.

I agree that we (the state) are not committed to HS football. I think NWA is and it shows.  But what can we do to help that? I don't have that answer.

Grag T

Quote from: The_Iceman on September 21, 2017, 08:40:23 am
"Why can't we be Bama?" Ugh, shaking my head at all the stupidity on here. That's like asking, why can't I marry Taylor Swift or Emma Stone?


Other than $$$ why would anyone want to, they're both ugly trailerpark-lookin' skanks.  You can go practically anywhere and see hotter looking women.  Well, except Berkeley.
"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live;  it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.  Unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them.  Selfishness always aims at creating around it an absolute uniformity of type."  - Oscar Wilde

Tusks

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on September 21, 2017, 08:06:17 am
Easy.  We don't play the most talented guys!



I laugh my arse off every time I see that.

See the hogs are best when they have great pursuit.
sometimes it's a good and some times it's a schit

elviscat

The major difference is they have all those national championship rings and trophies that we don't have. Then they have all the SEC championship trophies and rings and then on the wall in Dick Satan's office are all the pictures of pro athletes who are making millions in pro football. So a recruit seat down and Dick pulls out his display of NC/SEC rings and says,"Hey boy do you want one of these". Then the game is over, they sign another 5 star athlete and they have them stacked up like cord wood. The advantage for them is insurmountable. They got there years ago by cheating and it continues today but now they don't have too. It's win at any cost and they do. This why Tuscaloosa win over Fayetteville and will continue. It's all about winning at any cost.