K. Edwards is GONE!

[cosmodrum]

Here is some life saving advice, son.

Don't get ON the plane

Get IN the plane.

You're welcome.

George Carlin agrees

[Steef]

The sky is not falling.

[HSVhogfan2]

The sky is not falling.

But even the most die hard CBB guy has to wonder if a pattern is developing. I made a Coach Pel reference tongue in cheek, but I can't help but think to Coach Knight calling one of Pels games after a couple of his weekly suspensions, talking bluntly how poor a discipline choice that was. It hurts the kid, the team, and the program. He went on to say that, unless University policy or a law was broken, 99% of that stuff can be handled in house with no one knowing about it.

If AR is going to compete at an Elite level in the SEC West, they are going to need elite skill position players. A lot of these guys don't come from Mayberry.

[Biggus Piggus]

If you were to look at the whole picture instead of just "Got rid of a bad seed." It looks more like "Coach brought in an attitude problem and wasted a needed scholarship and the kid's time as well as the coaches and sent him on his way."

Recruiting, as you're deliberately ignoring, is a process of delegation. The head coach delegates recruiting responsibilities to his staff members. He does not make the final call on offers very often. In this particular case, the Hogs' second recruiting class was coming up short, and Shannon was permitted to scrounge up gettable South Florida players to offer. Edwards was one of those. Shannon found some athletically talented players who were available for some reason.

Edwards might learn from this, go to another school, and have a fine football career. He's talented but needs to get a clue about college and football. That does not make him a waste of Arkansas's time. He was worth a chance. Some don't work.

Football recruiting does not require a 100% hit rate. A major college football team will play around 50 players in important roles. Those 50 come from five recruiting classes, as many as 125 scholarship signees, plus walk-ons. It's obvious that the hit rate isn't really high for anybody. Teams are allowed 85 scholarship players, 25 signees per year. If half of each class redshirts, then your 85 come from 4.5 years worth of recruiting. And 85 / 4.5 = ~19. Further, 55 / 4.5 = ~12.

The benchmark we on Hogville developed a long time ago was 15. Fifteen players per recruiting class need to contribute as starters or usable reserves. That is a 60% hit rate. Fall below 60%, and depth and experience suffer. Places too much pressure on current recruiting.

If you're going to make that kind of dire proclamation every time a recruit doesn't work out, you are way overdoing it. A lot of them don't pan out. Everywhere. Shock.

[regi]

Again....we are not talking about Keon Hatcher,  J-Red or Hunter Henry. You know, players who have actually shown they can make plays in the SEC. We are talking about a kid with 4 catches at a position of need. A kid that by many accounts had several chances, but could not do what he was asked to do, As for KE. CBB will help him find a landing spot (IE Murphy, Cowan and McKay). He has a track record of setting a standard, holding you accountable and if it doesn't work out, he even assists you to find a new home. Until a parent comes forward and tells us what a %^&$ BB is. I will continue to believe he is handling this the right way/

Great, now I have contributed again to a thread that is way to long.

[Biggus Piggus]

But even the most die hard CBB guy has to wonder if a pattern is developing.

NO, they don't. Maybe if this was the first time you ever thought about it, in your whole life, I could understand the extent of the overreaction. Kinda wondering how you'd react if four players were arrested for armed robbery and other assorted Aubrun-like behavior.

[3kgthog]

I got blasted for suggesting that. Lol

I honestly couldn't figure out how anyone took that as meaning anything other than the coaches didn't dive deep enough into the character of the Florida kids they were signing.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought he was talking about issues with some players from Florida.

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Lol.  A few of our posters, are just like some athletes.....they just don't get it, & probably never will.  This kind of thing happens on every team, no matter who the coach is.  Someone has to be in charge, it's either the players or the coach.  If the coaches rules are not followed.....there can be no real team.  Only a bunch of individuals with different goals.  Hard to be winners while this is occurring.

A kid breaks the rules, & suffers the consequences.  The athlete made a choice, & more often than not, had 2nd chances.... but for whatever reason decides not to comply.  Yet, somehow it's someone else's fault.  Blaming the coach for an athletes bad decisions are very silly.  Sort of like blaming the police, for writing you a ticket for going 20mph over the limit, when there are speed limit signs everywhere.....& you know better.

[regi]

If AR is going to compete at an Elite level in the SEC West, they are going to need elite skill position players. A lot of these guys don't come from Mayberry.

If the this were Alex Collins, this whole thread would be relevant, but since Edwards is not Elite talent. again, this is way over blown.

Mizzou kicked off the best player on their team, DGB. The same off season they were losing a starting QB and several key defensive starters. They won the east and their bowl game victory again without DGB, in a wr dependent offense. Nobody is bigger than the team in football, if you build it right.

[Biggus Piggus]

I honestly couldn't figure out how anyone took that as meaning anything other than the coaches didn't dive deep enough into the character of the Florida kids they were signing.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that thought he was talking about issues with some players from Florida.

Was something of a dispute between Bielema and Shannon that grew -- Bielema didn't believe Shannon recruited South Florida with the same standards that he did when he was at Miami.

[Wildhog]

I actually think Edwards is EXTREMELY talented.  He would have been a star here had he gotten his act together.

[HSVhogfan2]

NO, they don't. Maybe if this was the first time you ever thought about it, in your whole life, I could understand the extent of the overreaction. Kinda wondering how you'd react if four players were arrested for armed robbery and other assorted Aubrun-like behavior.

Had trouble keeping coaches at Wisconsin. Would you say the turnover the first 2 years here was normal?

You talk about a 60% success rate in recruiting. Break that down to skill position players that have been recruited by this staff. Have lost 2 and another 1 or 2 walking on egg-shells. It seems like CBB is convinced that he can win in the SEC without team speed at any position on offense. Maybe he can.

And comparing guys who get bent out of shape and don't want to show up for mandatory weight room sessions because they think it will slow them down, or are late for meetings, to armed robbery, is about a rediculous as me comparing CBB to Pelphrey.

I've met CBB a couple of times and I love the guy. Hope he retires here. Still doesn't mean that I have to agree with his personnel decisions.

[HSVhogfan2]

I actually think Edwards is EXTREMELY talented.  He would have been a star here had he gotten his act together.

Yes a 6'6" guy with good hands and decent speed, considering the receiver corps at AR is very elite, IMO. Hopefully JC will get a lot of balls next year.

[Wildhog]

Yes a 6'6" guy with good hands and decent speed, considering the receiver corps at AR is very elite, IMO. Hopefully JC will get a lot of balls next year.

He will.

Offense gets significantly better this year.

[chitwnhog]

There is a whole lotta fail in this thread. Bottom line is this. In College Football much like in business there are rules. Players/employees who don't follow the rules should be disciplined and if this course of action doesn't work they can and should be terminated. If the "management" doesn't discipline players/employees who refuse to follow the rules good players/employees will begin to take on this same behavior which will ultimately be detrimental to the team/business.

[ricepig]

There is a whole lotta fail in this thread. Bottom line is this. In College Football much like in business there are rules. Players/employees who don't follow the rules should be disciplined and if this course of action doesn't work they can and should be terminated. If the "management" doesn't discipline players/employees who refuse to follow the rules good players/employees will begin to take on this same behavior which will ultimately be detrimental to the team/business.

But, but, but, you can't make widgets without guys with speed, even if they aren't eligible.....

[chitwnhog]

But, but, but, you can't make widgets without guys with speed, even if they aren't

But, but, but, you can't make widgets without guys with speed, even if they aren't eligible.....

Yeah...I know. Facts n logic are lost on many here.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Goodness gracious, calm down.

He is calm.  And he's right.  I remember when we didn't care that we lost KJ, because we had JoJo.

[hawginbigd1]

I actually think Edwards is EXTREMELY talented.  He would have been a star here had he gotten his act together.

WH we agree on this, one of the recruits that most excited me from that class. People on her act like 6'5" with speed and hands are just falling off all the trees in the Boston mountains. Very disappointed, he also made plays every time he played last year.

[Theolesnort]

Biggus was talking sense and some did not choose to listen but the crux of the matter is Edwards made his own bed and now he has to lie in it. Simple.

[ricepig]

Biggus was talking sense and some did not choose to listen but the crux of the matter is Edwards made his own bed and now he has to lie in it. Simple.

As plain as the nose on your face.

[WilsonHog]

The day that Bielema starts making discipline decisions based on the depth chart is the day I'll be ready for him to go.

[MissippHog]

[MissippHog]

The day that Bielema starts making discipline decisions based on the depth chart is the day I'll be ready for him to go.

Agree 100%.

[hoghiker]

I challenge you to find a post in my history where I've said I don't care for coach.  I feel pretty confident you will come up empty because I like him.  I think he was a very good hire for the circumstance we were in.  I'm happy to wait to see where he takes us as a program. 

That doesn't mean I think everything he does is unquestionable.  I think his dismissal of kids he promised to take care of in college for relatively minor issues is drastic at best.  I'd be willing to bet he didn't sell momma on I'll take care of your kid so long as he makes all of my meetings on time.  I doubt he gave the kid a copy of the "team rules" when he was recruiting him.  and said, you break these, I'll throw you out.

I work with "at risk" kids regularly.  All they have ever seen in their life is conditions.  They have a lot of issues tied to that and it creates a behavior.  If this is our stance, we need to quit bringing them in and leave them for Auburn and OU.  All we have done is put a note on the kid's bio for NFL teams pick apart if he makes it that far.  He hasn't helped our team and we haven't helped him at this point.  We've wasted a couple of years of the kid's life and he's wasted a couple of years of our scholarships.

Pardon me if I don't see that as something to praise the coach over.  It bothers me a lot when I see people willing to praise the coach over a situation that is an obvious failure.  KE wasn't some program changing talent.  No reason to take a chance on him to start with.  Possession receivers of his talent are plentiful.

If you were to look at the whole picture instead of just "Got rid of a bad seed." It looks more like "Coach brought in an attitude problem and wasted a needed scholarship and the kid's time as well as the coaches and sent him on his way."

You are right that we will never agree on the subject though.  Probably most of Hogville.  It isn't known as a repository of honest discussion.

BB's mission is not yours. I'll not exclude shaping boys into men as part of the dynamic of a SEC head coach job description, but the bottom line is they are hired to win. These young men are recruited to play football. There is, or should be, some expectation of having the ability to meet some standard of behavior. Going to class, passing your classes, showing up for practice when and where required and, finally, giving a good faith effort to achieve personal and community goals. Perfection is not required but progress toward those goals is essential. If not, the coach has to make tough decisions. I don't see, as yet, that BB is doing this in a unfair or capacious manner. It's a competitive game. What else you going to do, honestly?

[bigdaddyhawg]

The day that Bielema starts making discipline decisions based on the depth chart is the day I'll be ready for him to go.

Well stated, sir. +1

[gchamblee]

So you know each one? I do know that the starting point of the problems with Korliss, Jo Jo, Kendrick, and to a lesser extent Alex Collins started over the same disagreement. I know what KM did that was supposedly the last straw, although, once again it was just allegations and no laws were broken. I also know once you make CBBs doghouse, it is extremely hard to get out.

Once again, I like the guy, I hope he makes it big. I can still question some of his decisions when there looks to be a pattern developing.

It's funny so many folks want absolute transparency in you Government, but none is okay in an athletic program that we all give so much money to support.

your cries for transparency are misplaced for 2 reasons. 1) The kids private life is none of your business as a fan. He is not obligated to stand before your judgement. 2) CBB is not interested in your approval of his enforcement of his rules, nor is he obligated to your scrutiny of how he runs his program.

[Hawgzinbowlz]

It depends on what you are expecting from them this season.  I'm expecting the passing game to improve with a new coordinator and some newly developed talent.  If that talent leaves, that doesn't bode well for the passing game, does it?

I didn't say the program would fall apart.

Expectation #1 : The player performs in the program as required. Anything less and he's gone. Expectations don't exist in a vacuum, as part of a players value to the team is behavior that does not weaken the fabric of the team/program.
Not only will the program not fall apart, it should become stronger as a result of team standards being enforced.
I don't think we'll miss a beat, from an offensive efficiency standpoint, with the removal of KE as A Hog. We have many offensive weapons, and more than enough to pick up any slack created by KE not being here...and any other player that refuses to meet minimum performance requirements.
I do understand your disappointment if your expectations won't be met with the dismissal of Kendrick.
We have a coach that enforces his established red lines and I, as a Hog Fan, want nothing less from our entire program.

" GO HOGS "

[choppedporkextrasauce]

Gotta be honest, we probably can't afford to lose Jojo...

Right.....

Because one player IS bigger than the program.

[oldhawg]

People are fired from their jobs everyday, some with a whole lot more to lose than a college athletic scholarship, or a chance to make a difference on a potentially good college football team. 

The player will get another chance at another school, the Razorbacks football team isn't likely to suffer much.  Someone will step forward to compensate for those four catches.

Fans will bitch and moan and complain until spring practice highlights some receiver with ability and potential, and then interest in what could of been with Edwards will disappear.

Whatever the outcome, this is Bart's?   Bert's?   Brets?  (whatever his name is today) team ---- and I, for one support him and like him.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Right.....

Because one player IS bigger than the program.

Especially one that hasn't seen a minute of game time. 

[Wildhog]

Pretty sure he wasn't saying one player is bigger than the program...

[Pig In The City]

CBB alluded to having some issues (paraphrasing) with Florida kids in a press conference a while back, I guess we know what that really meant now.

Muschamp knows.

[Marshfieldhog]

Don't have an issue with Edwards getting the boot. Only issue I have is did he address WR well enough with this class? I mean, I'm sure he knew before signing day that Edwards and JoJo was having issues. You need to plan for the worst. Our offense can't afford any more WR defections or teams will stack the box.

[cubsfan5150]

Yes a 6'6" guy with good hands and decent speed, considering the receiver corps at AR is very elite, IMO. Hopefully JC will get a lot of balls next year.

You stupid Frank, go look at his offer list.  The guy has a chance to be VERY good.

[JIHawg]

I see the Negative Nancys have had their arsenal reduced to flocking to the bad news and making mountains out of mole hills. 

[HSVhogfan2]

You stupid Frank, go look at his offer list.  The guy has a chance to be VERY good.

I would just rather watch the guy play. How does advance scouting work for the Cubs?

I actually love to be insulted on Hogville, it means that I am of WAY above average intelligence, but I have no idea what the hell you just insulted me about. I said I thought KE had a chance to be Elite.

[(notOM)Rebel123]

You stupid Frank, go look at his offer list.  The guy has a chance to be VERY good.

Can he learn to tell time?

[Iwastherein1969]

I actually think Edwards is EXTREMELY talented.  He would have been a star here had he gotten his act together.

conjecture in it's purest form

[Iwastherein1969]

I see the Negative Nancys have had their arsenal reduced to flocking to the bad news and making mountains out of mole hills.

we get on a roll and expectations rise throughout Razorback fandom and we get run from SEC and NCAA pundits about being a "team on the rise", and out jumps the kokblocks from hell....never fails

[1HourToHogville]

Had trouble keeping coaches at Wisconsin. Would you say the turnover the first 2 years here was normal?

You talk about a 60% success rate in recruiting. Break that down to skill position players that have been recruited by this staff. Have lost 2 and another 1 or 2 walking on egg-shells. It seems like CBB is convinced that he can win in the SEC without team speed at any position on offense. Maybe he can.

And comparing guys who get bent out of shape and don't want to show up for mandatory weight room sessions because they think it will slow them down, or are late for meetings, to armed robbery, is about a rediculous as me comparing CBB to Pelphrey.

I've met CBB a couple of times and I love the guy. Hope he retires here. Still doesn't mean that I have to agree with his personnel decisions.

Maybe when you meet CBB for the 3rd time you can explain the mistakes he has made in handling player issues and offer him your assistance. Help the guy out for goodness sakes.

[HSVhogfan2]

Maybe when you meet CBB for the 3rd time you can explain the mistakes he has made in handling player issues and offer him your assistance. Help the guy out for goodness sakes.

You mad bro?

[The Divine Swine]

Starting to remind me of Coach Pelphrey. When you keep having the same trouble with the same people over and over, look in the mirror. Discipline means taking marginal young men and molding them.

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[1HourToHogville]

You mad bro?

Nah bro, I'm being real man. Help a brother out, you dig?

[WilsonHog]

You mad bro?

Just a matter of seeing the world differently.

Me? I trust Bielema. He says a player needs to go, he needs to go. I don't need to know why.

The kind of program he's running is the kind I want run, the kind I respect. If it costs us a great talent or two, a game here or there, I'm good with that. I'll take that trade off.

[lasthog]

People are fired from their jobs everyday, some with a whole lot more to lose than a college athletic scholarship, or a chance to make a difference on a potentially good college football team. 

The player will get another chance at another school, the Razorbacks football team isn't likely to suffer much.  Someone will step forward to compensate for those four catches.

Fans will bitch and moan and complain until spring practice highlights some receiver with ability and potential, and then interest in what could of been with Edwards will disappear.

Whatever the outcome, this is Bart's?   Bret's?   Brets?  (whatever his name is today) team ---- and I, for one support him and like him.

Excellent comments.

Being a business owner for many years has put me in the position of having to discharge a number of employees, some quite valuable and talented. But in every single instance, when anyone was terminated it was due to their either doing something egregious or neglecting to perform some duty of importance, even after they were instructed as to what was required and being given more than one chance to correct matters.

More than a few times friends or employees have offered that they didn't know if they could handle terminations of employees,  and how difficult it must be. My reply (and true belief) is always that in reality the employee took the decision away from me and made it themselves by their actions. 

It still is never pleasant to lose folks, but unlike the shepherd who leaves the 99 sheep to find the one that strayed, in team sports and business,  while not abandoning departing ones personally in many cases, those "99" that remain and embrace the culture and operate within the framework those in authority establish are the ones that will be protected, encouraged, and helped to succeed.

Others of a different mind sometimes fall on their own sword.

[passinghog]

Can we have some flexibility please?

[PaintballHog]

Yes - we can.
The absolute worst thing a coach can do is decide we Can't lose a particular player and start bending rules.
If JoJo doesn't straighten up he's got to be shown the door, too.

If Jojo needs to go, I trust BB. I was just saying it would not be good for our offense next year. Many fans were able to get over KJ because we have Jojo. So if we lost Jojo, all the expected improvement will fall on Reed. If he doesn't have the grades and we lose Jojo, we are in the same boat as last year with likely the least talented wr core in the SEC.

[ricepig]

Can we have some flexibility please?

There's some pictures of a girl doing yoga in the Tavern, you are looking for flexibility, correct?

[Inhogswetrust]

But even the most die hard CBB guy has to wonder if a pattern is developing. I made a Coach Pel reference tongue in cheek, but I can't help but think to Coach Knight calling one of Pels games after a couple of his weekly suspensions, talking bluntly how poor a discipline choice that was. It hurts the kid, the team, and the program. He went on to say that, unless University policy or a law was broken, 99% of that stuff can be handled in house with no one knowing about it.

If AR is going to compete at an Elite level in the SEC West, they are going to need elite skill position players. A lot of these guys don't come from Mayberry.

Couldn't be anymore wrong! Besides that when ANY player leaves a team for any reason the news will get out. Very little discipline issues of any type never get out.

They don't have to come from Mayberry.....................They onto need to come with enough brains to want to do what the coach expects. Your not from Mayberry reference is a veiled derogatory statement about anyone that comes from anywhere other than 100% desirable environments.

Also interesting that you only mentioned "skill position players". Last time I checked ALL positions required some skill. It takes the WHOLE team performing skills to win.