Changes for Dayton game

[-Blu]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

[HogFaninMemphis]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

I can't see any way around Kingsley not gettingsd more minutes. He's the rebounding and shot-blocking presence we need with a stretch-4 in there. Someone else (sorry can't remember your name) mentioned that perhaps CMA is bothered that Kingsley is stagnant on offense, and that is definitely a problem; however, everything else he does more than makes up for a lack of motion off-the-ball.

[hogman99]

I say go with the below lineup for a few games and see what happens.  Limit the subs pattern and focus on strong half courts defense and offensive sets.  However, if you do this lineup you must play a high/low game with Portis and Kingsley with Portis touching the ball many times during a possession.

Starters:
Durham
Beard
Qualls
BP
MK

Bench should be:
Williams
Ky (once he learns what his role is)
Harris (once he learns what his role is) 
Watkins can log 5-7 minutes in relief if needed. 
Bell (spot up shooter only, max 6-8 mintes a game)

Starters need to average 30-32 minutes a game.

[hogsanity]

Bell (spot up shooter only, max 6-8 mintes a game)

Starters need to average 30-32 minutes a game.

Yes lets give the teams best shooter only 6-8 minutes, while giving a starting lineup of Qualls, BP and 3 guys who have not shown any propensity to be scorers 32+ minutes. Excellent idea.

[Atlhogfan1]

Makes sense Blu on Durham getting to play more before SEC play.  I agree with the idea from that standpoint, to take some burden off of Madden making him and Qualls spot up options and giving Bell to the "second unit" for offense.   Is this also an attempt to make us better defensively from the start?  But why do you trust Mike will do it?  Durham has averaged 6 mpg over the last 3.  Bell plays better at home. 

Madden did have a momentary meltdown vs CU.  But he also is avg 6 assists per game, is on an early pace to join Lee and Kareem with an all time assist season while playing out of position and is still 2-1 assist to turnover although last 3 games were 17 a to 12 to and a 40% 3pt shooter.  Can Durham or Beard provide better productivity with more minutes?  These next few weeks would be the time to see. 

[hogman99]

Yes lets give the teams best shooter only 6-8 minutes, while giving a starting lineup of Qualls, BP and 3 guys who have not shown any propensity to be scorers 32+ minutes. Excellent idea.

He's not very consistent, if he's hot play him more.  If he isn't don't leave him in, that is called coaching, not checking to say "Hey, has so and so player been in for the pre-deternined number of minutes".  That is what appears to being going on at the sideline with those dressed in suits.

Also, we have to change our entire approach to both offense and defense.  In other words, stop jacking 3's and back off the half-azz full court press!

[spahoopsfan]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

I hope your wrong I see no reason to give Durham more minutes and Bell less. Makes no sense.  Durham can't score, Bell is one of the leaders in the conference.  Its also not like Durham is a great defensive player, and even if he is slightly better on defense, Bell is far better on offense.  I could see Watkins, even though I don't want to, getting some Madden minutes, I would much prefer Beard getting those minutes.  I think Babb some see more minutes, he is just as athletic as Watkins and far far better shooter.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Yes lets give the teams best shooter only 6-8 minutes, while giving a starting lineup of Qualls, BP and 3 guys who have not shown any propensity to be scorers 32+ minutes. Excellent idea.

My thoughts, too.

Bell keeps opponents honest.  He's our only consistent shooter from 3.  And, IMO, he's a good BB player.

Criticizing his defense, on this team, and in this defense, is questionable.

[Paul]

I can't see any way around Kingsley not gettingsd more minutes. He's the rebounding and shot-blocking presence we need with a stretch-4 in there. Someone else (sorry can't remember your name) mentioned that perhaps CMA is bothered that Kingsley is stagnant on offense, and that is definitely a problem; however, everything else he does more than makes up for a lack of motion off-the-ball.

He is the post presence.  He shouldn't have to weave out front in this "motion offense".

[spahoopsfan]

He's not very consistent, if he's hot play him more.  If he isn't don't leave him in, that is called coaching, not checking to say "Hey, has so and so player been in for the pre-deternined number of minutes".  That is what appears to being going on at the sideline with those dressed in suits.

Bell has not been the problem.  You are not going to get better shots with the inside players we have and the lack of a point guard to penetrate the lane and make something happen.  If all you do is pass it around the perimeter and get the mid range to 3 point shot then you need shooters to make them.  Your lineup doesn't have that.  If all you care about is defense then Portis wouldn't be a starter.  Kingsley is better on defense, so using your argument Kingsley should start instead of Portis.

Also, we have to change our entire approach to both offense and defense.  In other words, stop jacking 3's and back off the half-azz full court press!

[The_Iceman]

Yes lets give the teams best shooter only 6-8 minutes, while giving a starting lineup of Qualls, BP and 3 guys who have not shown any propensity to be scorers 32+ minutes. Excellent idea.

Yeah, I lol'd at that. 42% 3pt shooter averaging 11 pts a game, but lets give him 6-8 minutes a game. That's great coaching right there!

[HSVhogfan2]

Maybe run the "4 corners" and work the shot clock down? Possibly the ole Princeton weave with a lot of back-cuts? I think those two would make a lot of folks on Jumpball proud.

[The_Iceman]

Durham needs to be playing with the starters because he needs to be playing with less pressure on him. If he is with Watkins and Beard, there will be pressure on him to create and score. If he is with Madden, Qualls, Portis, and Harris, his two jobs on the court will be tough defense and distributing the ball. Plus, I think the chemistry of the starting group would improve with him in it.

That moves Bell to the bench, where I think he would excel with Beard and Watkins. Those three together I think would work really well together. Babb can also find some minutes in those groups as well depending on what happens.

[Atlhogfan1]

Give the new guards more minutes in the four games after Dayton and find out where they are before SEC play. 

Trying Durham as a starter against a competitive opponent like Dayton seems like a good idea.  Doesn't mean he'll play more minutes than Bell or Madden.  With it in BWA, it isn't as risky as trying it on the road or once SEC play starts. 

[ballz2thewall]

He is the post presence.  He shouldn't have to weave out front in this "motion offense".

i was the one that posted what he's referring to, and concluded with what you say.

i mentioned in a thread regarding moses, that he seems to not move like the rest of the "flow", and prefers to hang near the rim when he can.  it was also my guess that this irritates mike.

i followed with the ironic comment that that is what we need more of [kingsley to stake a claim down low].

[-Blu]

I hope your wrong I see no reason to give Durham more minutes and Bell less. Makes no sense.  Durham can't score, Bell is one of the leaders in the conference.  Its also not like Durham is a great defensive player, and even if he is slightly better on defense, Bell is far better on offense.  I could see Watkins, even though I don't want to, getting some Madden minutes, I would much prefer Beard getting those minutes.  I think Babb some see more minutes, he is just as athletic as Watkins and far far better shooter.

Durham can score, he just doesn't really look to do it, there's a difference, and we don't need him to score.  He's our best facilitator and ball handler, he started the season rough, which is why he hasn't got more minutes to this point, but that should be expected with a JUCO playing his first couple of D1 games.  I'm not sure he's all the way ready, but we gotta get him ready before conference play starts, because we'll need him especially on the road.  Having a guy like him ready was the difference between a win and a loss at Clemson, you can't go down the stretch on the road, without a guy that can handle the ball and make the right decisions (See Clemson's PG at the end of the game).  He's also a guy that's going to be able to get Portis the ball, in the right spot, and get guys easy baskets, which is something we've lacked on the road.

And as far as Bell, he definitely deserves minutes, a guy posted 6-8 MPG for him, which is ridiculous, but, he's currently averaging 23 MPG, I don't think he's a 23 MPG player when we have guys like Beard and Babb on the bench with their upside.  These guys need more minutes, especially Babb.  I'd like to see him play Bell about 17-20 MPG depending on how hot is that night, and have Madden drop to about 22 MPG, and give those extra 6 or so minutes to Babb.  With his athleticism, shooting, and defense, no reason he shouldn't be playing 10+ minutes a game.

[Razorback2010]

Let Durham run point and move Madden to off guard.  Bring Bell in off the bench. 
Or let Durham run point and bring Madden in off the bench.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Let Durham run point and move Madden to off guard.  Bring Bell in off the bench. 
Or let Durham run point and bring Madden in off the bench.

Let Durham run the point and let Bell play 2 G, and let Madden come off the bench.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

The talk in the pre-season was that Durham and Beard would relieve Madden of playing so many minutes at the point.

What happened to that plan?
Madden needs zero minutes at point guard after the train wreck that happened at Clemson.

[The_Iceman]

The talk in the pre-season was that Durham and Beard would relieve Madden of playing so many minutes at the point.

What happened to that plan?
Madden needs zero minutes at point guard after the train wreck that happened at Clemson.

I think Mike started doing what he tells everyone not to do, which is he worried about who was "starting". I think he wanted to get all his experience in the starting lineup. He was worried the message it would send bringing Bell off the bench and starting a newcomer.

He needs to focus on the chemistry of the lineups and move Durham into the starting spot and Bell to the bench. A lot of the problems would be corrected right there.

[hogman99]

Yeah, I lol'd at that. 42% 3pt shooter averaging 11 pts a game, but lets give him 6-8 minutes a game. That's great coaching right there!

Again, what has he done in games that matter?  And, if he is hot play him more, that is coaching.

[The_Iceman]

Again, what has he done in games that matter?  And, if he is hot play him more, that is coaching.

He hit a big 3 in Overtime at Clemson that if Harris would have made that frickin' layup, would have ended being a pretty big shot.

[hogman99]

He hit a big 3 in Overtime at Clemson that if Harris would have made that frickin' layup, would have ended being a pretty big shot.

We can agree to disagree.  I think he is a good streaking shooter, but a bit inconsistent.  If he is hot, keep him in and let him go.  Just remeber, Alex Dillard was a great shooter, but only player around 11-14 minutes a game.  He is not the same class of shooter as Alex.

[cbhawg03]

Babb has got to shoot the ball. From what I have seen, he has a good shoot, but just doesn't let it fly. I am all in on Babb and Beard playing more.

[Hogimus Prime]

I'd say play Thompson some meaningful minutes, but see how Kingsley is barely playing that probably won't happen.

I like Durham starting and Bell as a gunner off the bench. 

[The_Iceman]

We can agree to disagree.  I think he is a good streaking shooter, but a bit inconsistent.  If he is hot, keep him in and let him go.  Just remeber, Alex Dillard was a great shooter, but only player around 11-14 minutes a game.  He is not the same class of shooter as Alex.

Dillard was .401 (138 of 344) for his career. Pretty dang good. But he was very similar to Bell in that shooting was all he brought. He had his good and bad games, just like Bell.

http://www.hogstats.com/log_ua.php?name=Alex%20Dillard

[rude1]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

My only change would be Beard for Durham. Durham just seems lost out there with no clear idea on what he can or can't do at this level. Beard just seems to be catching on much more IMO of the speed of the game than Durham and is not afraid to look for his offense something that Durham hasn't done. If D doesn't need to respect your shot, then it limits your ability to create for others.

[Hogimus Prime]

My only change would be Beard for Durham. Durham just seems lost out there with no clear idea on what he can or can't do at this level. Beard just seems to be catching on much more IMO of the speed of the game than Durham and is not afraid to look for his offense something that Durham hasn't done. If D doesn't need to respect your shot, then it limits your ability to create for others.

Beard has caught on faster than Durham but he fouls too much.  If Beard starts I think he'd get into foul trouble.   Either way they both need to play more than they are.

[rude1]

Beard has caught on faster than Durham but he fouls too much.  If Beard starts I think he'd get into foul trouble.   Either way they both need to play more than they are.

Fouling is something he will learn not to do especially if he is starting and knows he is going to get major minutes if he doesn't get in foul trouble. The way I look at it, Durham is the older player but already Beard is IMO the better player, better to go with the guy who has four years to improve and the most upside.

[Hogimus Prime]

Fouling is something he will learn not to do especially if he is starting and knows he is going to get major minutes if he doesn't get in foul trouble. The way I look at it, Durham is the older player but already Beard is IMO the better player, better to go with the guy who has four years to improve and the most upside.

True.  I like the way Beard drives with his head up and steady.  Babb is the sameway. 

[rude1]

True.  I like the way Beard drives with his head up and steady.  Babb is the sameway. 

Yes, should have mentioned Babb too. That kid just seems to have an understanding of how to play the game that some of our seniors lack. He doesn't do anything flashy but he knows how to play within himself so he isn't doing something bad. As he gets stronger and more confident, I think you will see his offense come.

[The_Iceman]

Yes, should have mentioned Babb too. That kid just seems to have an understanding of how to play the game that some of our seniors lack. He doesn't do anything flashy but he knows how to play within himself so he isn't doing something bad. As he gets stronger and more confident, I think you will see his offense come.

Your second sentence is spot on. Babb has excellent Bball IQ.

[lookawayquick]

Bigdaddyhawg - Bell is a good shooter in the Bud.  On the road he is nothing if not inconsistent.  He is a Jr.  I think he has had ample chance to prove he can shoot it on the road, so far his percentages show he is not a consistent shooter.

[Danny J]

My only change would be Beard for Durham. Durham just seems lost out there with no clear idea on what he can or can't do at this level. Beard just seems to be catching on much more IMO of the speed of the game than Durham and is not afraid to look for his offense something that Durham hasn't done. If D doesn't need to respect your shot, then it limits your ability to create for others.

I totally agree. I would start Beard for Madden and leave Bell at the two. I would also start Williams in place of Harris if you are going to play Bobby at the 5. However if it were up to me I would start Beard, Bell, Qualls, Portis and Kingsley and then stagger the minutes between Portis and Kingsley to make up for limited size coming off the bench. However I would only do the latter IF we are playing true low post teams that would otherwise have a size advantage.

I think it is all moot anyways. I think CMA will stick with this lineup(not to toot my own horn but I predicted our lineup all the way back in the summer in numerous "who will start threads") through the first week or two of SEC plays. That has always been his tendencies. I remember his first year I, and others, were pulling our hair out with BJ(clearly our best player even ahead of Powell) coming off the bench behind Scott. That made no sense. If it wasn't clear then it won't be clear now. He is going to start his most experienced players IF in his mind the talent is similar but they understand what it takes to win at this level. The problem I have with that is those players have never shown they know how to win at that level. Madden is in his 4th year, all 4 under CMA, and he looks marginally better now than he looked the previous two. If he hasn't bitten by now then it isn't going to happen. Time to get Beard, Durham and Babb some experience.

[mhuff]

He is the post presence.  He shouldn't have to weave out front in this "motion offense".

What the problem is that the guards are too busy making balloon passes and dribbling till they turn it over so they aren't going through the post. If things don't change in that regard, we are going to be in a heap of trouble.

Also, Babb is the only player who cuts off the penetration and stops drives to the bucket, yet he is not getting the playing time he deserves. CMA has got to do a better job with his line ups.

[Dominicanhog]

Yeah, I lol'd at that. 42% 3pt shooter averaging 11 pts a game, but lets give him 6-8 minutes a game. That's great coaching right there!

I bet he could almost average the same in short spurts ala Al Dillard... he is spending so much energy chasing one of the other teams scoring guards that imo it takes away from his offense... put some one else on the other guard, Durham, Watkins, Babb and when he checks out let Bell come in and take 3-4 shots.. he could do this 4-5 times a game and still get the points.

[Dominicanhog]

What the problem is that the guards are too busy making balloon passes and dribbling till they turn it over so they aren't going through the post. If things don't change in that regard, we are going to be in a heap of trouble.

maybe Durham could solve some of that  problem... I'd like to see him get some of those PG minutes

[Dominicanhog]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

flip Williams for Harris and I like the idea of Durham and Babb playing more... let Bell be instant O off the bench... I'd also stop with total team substitution in the first half... try to work the guys in where we we are getting beat... we don't have enough defensive talent to wear the other team down, we don't press effectively and we are not good man to man.. we are slow.. it's why Mike plays Zone with all switching when a man crosses the zone  .. we are not good at defense in the 1/2 court ...to slow afoot.

[nwahogfan1]

I'd be shocked if some lineup adjustments aren't made after the 2 slow starts in a row we've had.  My guess is Durham will move into the starting lineup for Bell, and Madden will move to the off-guard spot.  I think we're going to see a huge boost in minutes for Babb, and Beard's minutes will go up some as well.  Bell and Madden, I think will both see a drop in their minutes.

My rotation projection from Dayton, and at least to the end of the non-conference (Unless there's an absolute terrible performance somewhere) is going to be....

Durham/Beard/Babb
Madden/Bell/Babb
Qualls/Watkins/Babb
Harris/Williams
Portis/Kingsley

I hope changes are made but if you want great on the ball defense with out letting your man beat you off the dribble then I don't think you would start Harris.you would

[The_Iceman]

I bet he could almost average the same in short spurts ala Al Dillard... he is spending so much energy chasing one of the other teams scoring guards that imo it takes away from his offense... put some one else on the other guard, Durham, Watkins, Babb and when he checks out let Bell come in and take 3-4 shots.. he could do this 4-5 times a game and still get the points.

I can agree with that. I think 15-20 minutes a game should Bells range, depending on how he is shooting.

[Danny J]

Also, Babb is the only player who cuts off the penetration and stops drives to the bucket, yet he is not getting the playing time he deserves. CMA has got to do a better job with his line ups.

I agree 100%. It is clear to me and appears you as well that Babb is beyond his years in understanding especially on defense what it takes to play in this system. He definitely needs more playing time. He is a very intelligent player. We need more of that on the court. I think Beard is good in that regard as well. I too agree that CMA needs to make some changes to the lineups and sub patterns. That doesn't mean he will though although I hope he does.

[Dominicanhog]

I agree 100%. It is clear to me and appears you as well that Babb is beyond his years in understanding especially on defense what it takes to play in this system. He definitely needs more playing time. He is a very intelligent player. We need more of that on the court. I think Beard is good in that regard as well. I too agree that CMA needs to make some changes to the lineups and sub patterns. That doesn't mean he will though although I hope he does.

I think Mike knows and see these things as well.. he is playing experience first hoping they could do it and work them in slowly.. nobody has filled Clark's role from last year and that is hurting the upperclassmen.. all the newbies will get more and more time as we go forward... it's only been 8 games. 

[FATHAWG08]

Beard- PG
Madden- SG
Qualls - SF
Portis - PF
Moses- C

change of pace

Durham- PG
Bell - SG
Williams-F
Harris-F
Watkins- F

[Danny J]

I think Mike knows and see these things as well.. he is playing experience first hoping they could do it and work them in slowly.. nobody has filled Clark's role from last year and that is hurting the upperclassmen.. all the newbies will get more and more time as we go forward... it's only been 8 games.

Yeah....as I mentioned earlier in the thread I think the starting lineup will stay the same until probably just after SEC play starts. I think he may try a few things against some of the smaller schools coming up but against Dayton and then the first few SEC games the lineup will remain the same. I have seen nothing in his past that shows he is going to all the sudden against Dayton try something different.

[poloprince]

Beard should start freshman or not. He isn't afraid of the moment.

[Like it is]

You guys seem to think Dayton is a pushover! They'll be  7-1 rolling into Fayetteville ... All I ask is for Coach Anderson to figure out with whatever we call his non conference sub pattern and be consistent by the Georgia game! I understand his idea about keeping fresh legs to wear people down with our depth but surely it'll make more sense soon !!!! No matter what grade , go with the guys that are producing that's making us successful ! The others should accept there roll whatever it may be and hope for the best !

[Kevin]

Imo, very limited minutes for harris

[HF#1]

I expect to see much more emphasis on taking care of the ball.   Meaning that Durham and Beard will be running the show late in the half or late in the game.  I'd be shocked if you see Madden in the last 2 minutes of a game for a while.

[b-ball coach]

Why don't we all support our team & let our coaching staff figure out the rotations and minutes. If they can't win, at the end of season it will be a mute point.  :razorback:
It can be hard not to get negative- but let's try.  We could have lost 2 in a row at home to directional schools #michigan.

[ballz2thewall]

Why don't we all support our team & let our coaching staff figure out the rotations and minutes. If they can't win, at the end of season it will be a mute point.  :razorback:
It can be hard not to get negative- but let's try.  We could have lost 2 in a row at home to directional schools #michigan.

where's the fun in that?