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How well do you think the offense will be this year?

Started by Sweet Feet, July 05, 2017, 02:21:19 pm

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factchecker

Quote from: PorkSoda on July 07, 2017, 10:21:19 pm
Originally he filled in for Frohodlt at LG, he may have also taken snaps at RG after Froholdt came back, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

You are correct but he started at right guard against Florida and eventually played both in that breakout game:

https://twitter.com/ClintStoerner/status/795701497673687040

https://twitter.com/ClintStoerner/status/795699807855775744

https://twitter.com/ClintStoerner/status/795698312888414213

https://twitter.com/ClintStoerner/status/795690927339798528
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

presidenthog

Quote from: PorkSoda on July 07, 2017, 10:03:35 pm
sure we do, Gibson filled in for Froholdt and played better.

Gibson came in for raulerson.......

Also at the end of the year I got so mad when froholdt would get hurt because I knew raulerson was coming in. He was rhe weakest link, not froholdt.

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: presidenthog on July 08, 2017, 04:24:09 am
Gibson came in for raulerson.......

Also at the end of the year I got so mad when froholdt would get hurt because I knew raulerson was coming in. He was rhe weakest link, not froholdt.

I guess a lot of us didn't know it at the time, but Raulerson played on a injured ankle all last season. I don't personally know, but I was told it was pretty bad.
Go Hogs Go!

Al Boarland

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 08, 2017, 06:16:13 am
I guess a lot of us didn't know it at the time, but Raulerson played on a injured ankle all last season. I don't personally know, but I was told it was pretty bad.

Hopefully with the large number of OL we have on this roster we won't have to leave a guy out there that has a bad injury. With all the cross training and depth it shouldn't be an issue.

MuskogeeHogFan

July 08, 2017, 07:58:16 am #54 Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:11:28 am by MuskogeeHogFan
Quote from: factchecker on July 07, 2017, 11:11:31 pm

https://twitter.com/ClintStoerner/status/795690927339798528

On this play, though the RG did a great job on the LB, purely from a blocking scheme point of view, I have to wonder why they didn't have the RG block down on the DT and have the FB blow up the LB. The FB didn't do a great job on the DT, who made the tackle. Normal blocking rules would have called for the RG to block down (to his left) on the DT who was aligned on the right shoulder of the Center, halfway into the gap. Seems like a mis-match of personnel, but I'm not getting paid to draw this stuff up.
Go Hogs Go!

FANONTHEHILL

Jake did have a bad leg last year.  It had a huge effect on his base.  He's also a very strong, but not especially heavy lineman.  He did get held up or knocked back at times.  By the Florida game, when he was closer to healthy, he went back at RG when Johnny flipped to LG due to Hjalte's injury and played great.

Early in the season, when Jake's leg wasn't right, he did get knocked back.  Because of that, Frank often had to help to his right.  That left Hjalte with a wide span to cover.  When teams saw that in film, they slanted and followed with linebackers in the A&B gaps to Arkansas' left side.  Hjalte had two players coming into his area, an area that had widened due to Frank helping to the right.  When the right side of the pocket caved back, Austin had to slide in the pocket. When it's pressure from the right, you slide to the left.  That takes you right into the path of the A&B gap in Hjalte's side, directly into the path of pressure.  That is where they missed Alex Collins.  He filled those gaps and delivered a blow in 2014 and 2015.  Rawleigh and Devwah aren't the blockers Alex was.  Kody was a great blocker, but was hurt most of the year.  Scheme in situations is being altered to help the running backs with there blocking.  As I've said in other posts, the Oline graded out 4 percentage points lower in 2016 than 2015.  A lot of the issues were RB blocking, TE chipping as they went out into patterns, Austin getting rid of the ball, and Coach Enos give Austin some flexibility to make quick checks at the line.  I've got the advantage of watching replays and having someone to ask "what's everyone's assignment?"  The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.  There were several week links last year.  I mentioned them above. All of this has been the focus since January.

I excited to check them out when camp starts July 27th.
Favorite quote from practice.  Made to my son:<br /><br /><br />Technique is nice, but it comes down to this.  Block the F'er in front of you. - Sam Pittman 2015

bphi11ips

Quote from: FANONTHEHILL on July 08, 2017, 08:02:32 am
Jake did have a bad leg last year.  It had a huge effect on his base.  He's also a very strong, but not especially heavy lineman.  He did get held up or knocked back at times.  By the Florida game, when he was closer to healthy, he went back at RG when Johnny flipped to LG due to Hjalte's injury and played great.

Early in the season, when Jake's leg wasn't right, he did get knocked back.  Because of that, Frank often had to help to his right.  That left Hjalte with a wide span to cover.  When teams saw that in film, they slanted and followed with linebackers in the A&B gaps to Arkansas' left side.  Hjalte had two players coming into his area, an area that had widened due to Frank helping to the right.  When the right side of the pocket caved back, Austin had to slide in the pocket. When it's pressure from the right, you slide to the left.  That takes you right into the path of the A&B gap in Hjalte's side, directly into the path of pressure.  That is where they missed Alex Collins.  He filled those gaps and delivered a blow in 2014 and 2015.  Rawleigh and Devwah aren't the blockers Alex was.  Kody was a great blocker, but was hurt most of the year.  Scheme in situations is being altered to help the running backs with there blocking.  As I've said in other posts, the Oline graded out 4 percentage points lower in 2016 than 2015.  A lot of the issues were RB blocking, TE chipping as they went out into patterns, Austin getting rid of the ball, and Coach Enos give Austin some flexibility to make quick checks at the line.  I've got the advantage of watching replays and having someone to ask "what's everyone's assignment?"  The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.  There were several week links last year.  I mentioned them above. All of this has been the focus since January.

I excited to check them out when camp starts July 27th.

This makes sense.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.


factchecker

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 08, 2017, 07:58:16 am
On this play, though the RG did a great job on the LB, purely from a blocking scheme point of view, I have to wonder why they didn't have the RG block down on the DT and have the FB blow up the LB. The FB didn't do a great job on the DT, who made the tackle. Normal blocking rules would have called for the RG to block down (to his left) on the DT who was aligned on the right shoulder of the Center, halfway into the gap. Seems like a mis-match of personnel, but I'm not getting paid to draw this stuff up.

You're hoping that the defensive lineman bites a little more so that the fullback can trap him.  It's a Wham block:

WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: factchecker on July 08, 2017, 08:50:50 am
You're hoping that the defensive lineman bites a little more so that the fullback can trap him.  It's a Wham block:



That wasn't what I would call a classic "wham" block, the angle of approach was awkward and in fact, had the NT been more aware and penetrated (as he should have) when he saw the Center go left and the RG go to the LB, he might have blown that play up in the backfield. Of course had he come across maybe the FB would have been able to execute the classic "quick trap" or "wham" as they seem to like to call it these days and the RB could have cut off his block. The diagram you are giving obviously isn't the play that was in the video, but I understand what you were trying to demonstrate.

But again, see how that worked out with the NT just sitting down and reading? It was a bad angle for the FB so in retrospect, he did about as well as could have been expected given the situation. Might have had a bigger gain and a wider, more unobstructed hole with the RG blocking down and the FB taking on the LB. But like I said, I'm just chatting about O-line blocking and I don't get paid to scheme blocking by Arkansas, so... ;)
Go Hogs Go!

bennyl08

Quote from: Wildhog on July 07, 2017, 06:37:22 pm
If Ramirez couldn't get on the field last year, I have my doubts. 

Hope you're right about Jackson.  I used to see him fishing out at Centennial Valley CC during the summer.  I do think he wins that job.

He did get on the field some, but was injured much of the season, particularly suffering a bad injury in the fall which hurt his development.

Same thing about Ramirez could be said about Deatrich Wise who didn't see a whole lot of time last year, starting a few games early but falling off after breaking a bone securing a win in the first week.

Deatrich ended up being our top draft pick despite that.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

bennyl08

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 07, 2017, 07:46:33 pm
I think Ramirez played in 3-4 games last year, but not much. Colton Jackson more athletic than Dan Skipper who also played LT as a Sophomore(I think?)? Ramirez too? Well maybe, I don't know. I don't have the opportunity to watch all of the practices that parents of the players are allowed to watch. I don't even get to see all of the practices that the media is allowed to watch. Who does?

I think it is difficult for people who don't have the benefit of watching practices all the time (not having direct access to the team when others do) to accurately assess the ability or athleticism of one player compared to another at the college level in the absence of experience and observation, and especially so if they haven't ever played college football, but just study it a lot.

This isn't like comparing rushing data or receiving data or passing data, even though all that we observe in those areas isn't always a finite measure of talent or ability.

Things like motivation, dedication, self discipline, acquired ability, scoring on O-Line tests with regard to calls and responsibilities, actually getting it done in practice and then mental and physical toughness when you line up and go after it one-on-one in the chutes or Oklahoma Drills is a better measure of who is better than another player overall on the O-line.

But let's face it, there is a lot that none of us have access to during practice. So take what a lot of folks say, with a grain of salt.

You don't need practices to see a player's athleticism. There is HS tape and for players like Ramirez, even better, JUCO tape. Things like strength are really hard to judge on tape because it is very much relative to the competition. However, quickness and speed are absolute if you compare it to the field.

Now, athleticism isn't the final piece of the puzzle. You need to see practices to see if they are able to apply that athleticism to a faster speed of game in the SEC, understand their blocking assignments, have the requisite strength and so on. If you know what you are talking about, you can comment on a player's technique coming from their previous location to arkansas. However, it is easy to have good technique when you are comfortable and harder when you are not, so displaying great technique in HS or even JUCO is no guarantee that they will be able to use that same technique when they are flustered practicing against an SEC DL or how well they have improved their technique since their last tape.

I'd argue that comparing athleticism from tape is going to be more accurate than comparing stats. The only thing you need for a player's athleticism is film on them. The only variable at play here is how much and the quality of tape you have to watch. When comparing stats, for say a RB, you have 21 other players immensely involved in the stats that player accumulates not to mention coaching staff.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

daBoar

Quote from: bennyl08 on July 08, 2017, 02:20:50 pm
I'd argue that comparing athleticism from tape is going to be more accurate than comparing stats. The only thing you need for a player's athleticism is film on them. The only variable at play here is how much and the quality of tape you have to watch.
I'd say the key to comparison is the competition.  So, when comparing stats, comparing an SEC RB to other SEC RB stats is meaningful.  Whereas, comparing an RBs stats from the Big 12 to that of the SEC could be meaningless.  That's why I like the late season add of David Williams from USE-e................he has real SEC experience....and three years of it.

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: daBoar on July 08, 2017, 03:54:24 pm
I'd say the key to comparison is the competition.  So, when comparing stats, comparing an SEC RB to other SEC RB stats is meaningful.  Whereas, comparing an RBs stats from the Big 12 to that of the SEC could be meaningless.  That's why I like the late season add of David Williams from USE-e................he has real SEC experience....and three years of it.

And then, a RB is maybe only as good as his QB is at reading defenses and checking into better plays and his offensive line who has to execute and open holes for him. You might have a RB that is an awesome athlete who has the ability to gain yards, but if he has an O-Line that can't react to changes in calls for blocking assignments at the LOS or just simply doesn't have the acquired talent to execute the call, it is difficult for the RB to have any chance to distinguish himself in his designated role.

It's a team game.
Go Hogs Go!

MuskogeeHogFan

Speaking of the Offensive Line, there are some good stats for evaluating an offensive line over at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol2015 .
Looking at those offensive line stats for 2014, 2015 and 2016 you can easily see why we had more success in 2014 and 2015 and man, we really took a tumble in 2016 in terms of production.

And, what might give us hope that we will see an uptick in production this year is that prior to the 2014 season Phil Steele had us picked as having the 7th best OL in the country, 2nd best in the SEC. Prior to 2015 he picked us as having the 5th best in the country and the best in the SEC. We had good O-Lines both of those years. Now I'll admit that he missed on us in 2016 given that he had us projected to be the 14th best in the country and the 4th best in the SEC and really we probably wound up being the 13th best O-Line in terms of production in the SEC. That was a long fall to that position.

But, Steele has picked us pretty right 2 out of the last 3 years and this year he is picking us as the 12th best in the country, but unfortunately, only the 7th best in the SEC. Fortunately for us, we only play two opponents whose D-Lines are ranked in the top 12 in the country. So maybe we will find ourselves playing a lot better than last season.
Go Hogs Go!

redleg

Prediction 1...the O-Line will be better at pass protection, cutting down on QB sacks and QB hurries. That was one reason Brandon Allen was so successful passing the ball in 2015, and to a degree in 2014. Austin threw for the most yards in the SEC last year, but he was also beat up a lot. Improved pass protection will give Austin Allen the opportunity to pick apart opposing defenses, thereby opening the ground game.

Prediction 2...the O-Line will be better at run blocking, opening holes for Whaley and the other RBs to gain positive yards. I can see Whaley being the next 1,000 yard back for Arkansas and Bielema. I feel that, even with the Line being better at pass protection, I will not be surprised to see the Hogs run the ball more this year, taking into account that it is a little easier to run block, and, all of the new receivers on the team. It will probably take a few games for the WRs to get better at route running.

Prediction 3...Austin Cantrell will be a key cog in the ground attack for Arkansas. Cantrell is a bigger TE, listed at 6'4" 269 lbs. His blocking, at that size, should improve, and he could end up being a lead blocker on some pulling plays to the outside, utilizing his 4.55 - 4.6 speed.

Prediction 4...Austin Allen will have fewer passing yards (3430) than he did last year, but his completion rate will be better (61.1%), and he'll throw more TDs (25) and fewer INTs (15). Example - 3088 yards, 63.1%, 28 TD, 9 INT.

Prediction 5...Jared Cornelius will surpass 1,000 yards receiving (if he stays healthy) after the bowl game.

Prediction 6...Frank Ragnow and Devwah Whaley will be 1st team SEC - Austin Allen, Jared Cornelius, Austin Cantrell, and Hjalte Froholdt will all be 2nd team SEC.
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

smb

GeorgiaHOG

Sweet Feet


Chalupa Batman


widespreadsooie

Quote from: Sweet Feet on November 18, 2017, 11:23:09 pm
Well how did you guys prediction stack up?

My worries about the WR position we're right but not to the magnitude of how bad the situation really is.