Some new info....

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Bielema vs. Malzahn is not what I'm getting at.

The mantra here is that Malzahn can't win at Arkansas with Arkansas talent if he can't win at Auburn with Auburn talent.  Put aside for the moment that Malzahn has won at Auburn. You insist that Auburn will always have better talent than Arkansas. If so, then how did Arkansas manage to break even  with them for 21 years?

I've already addressed that, beyond the Bielema years. But I can see why you question since that and a Gus/Bielema reference was mixed in the same paragraph.

[Hawg Life]

I've already addressed that, beyond the Bielema years.

Very good explanation too. Gus isn't coming, so it's really irrelevant.

[HawgTide]

You've got me. I have no idea what 10-10-1 represents. I guess I wouldn't make a very good Lawyer asking a question for which I don't already have an answer.

Here's all that I know.

•   OSU is one of only seven schools to appear in every set of College Football Playoff rankings since 2015, joining Alabama, Clemson, Florida State, Michigan, Ohio State and Utah.

•   Since 2010, Oklahoma State has five seasons with at least 10 wins, an outright Big 12 title (2011) and a share of the Big 12 South title (2010). The Cowboys reached the top 10 of the Associated Press poll in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016.

•   Gundy has coached the Cowboys to four New Year’s Six bowl games since 2010. The Pokes appeared in the 2010 Cotton Bowl, the 2012 Fiesta Bowl, the 2014 Cotton Bowl and the 2016 Sugar Bowl.

•   Oklahoma State has been ranked in the top 15 of the Associated Press poll in eight of the last nine seasons and has posted 10-win seasons five of the last seven years. Only once has OSU finished lower than third in the Big 12 since 2009.

•   The Cowboys have averaged 9.7 wins per year since 2010 and rank 11th nationally with 68 wins this decade.

•   Gundy has led the Cowboys to a 44-18 record against Big 12 opposition since 2010, a mark that is good for second-best in the conference this decade. His 63 career wins in Big 12 games ranks fourth in the history of the conference, trailing only Bob Stoops, Mack Brown and Bill Snyder on the all-time chart.

http://www.okstate.com/coaches.aspx?rc=351

This is why I favor Gundy, though I'm sure we haven't even reached out to him and not sure he would come anyway. Probably contract issues that might preclude the possibility. But, he has done this in the absence of top ten recruiting classes.

I would take Gundy in a second, but you do realize his Defense is ranked 84th in the country this year don't you. Where are all the people that constantly rip other candidates for their D?

The truth is it's all a crap shoot. There is no perfect, foolproof coach coming here

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Very good explanation too. Gus isn't coming, so it's really irrelevant.

I know you recant this with great frequency as if saying it more often is going to make it more factual. Truth is, none of us know whether he is going to be the next HC or not.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I would take Gundy in a second, but you do realize his Defense is ranked 84th in the country this year don't you. Where are all the people that constantly rip other candidates for their D?

The truth is it's all a crap shoot. There is no perfect, foolproof coach coming here

Yes, but what do we care? They are also ranked #2 in total offense in the country.

[HawgTide]

Yes, but what do we care? They are also ranked #2 in total offense in the country.

Because people constantly shoot down Norvell and others for their D

The truth is it's all a crap shoot. There is no perfect, foolproof coach coming here

[bphi11ips]

I've already addressed that, beyond the Bielema years. But I can see why you question since that and a Gus/Bielema reference was mixed in the same paragraph.

We good, friend. It was maddog that felt the need to get snarky. If you're gonna get snarky at least know what you're getting snarky about.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Because people constantly shoot down Norvell and others for their D

The truth is it's all a crap shoot. There is no perfect, foolproof coach coming here

I was really being facetious.

[Maddhog]

We good, friend. It was maddog that felt the need to get snarky. If you're gonna get snarky at least know what you're getting snarky about.

Shucks, you could at least get my name right.  So sorry that I misunderstood your brilliant 10-10-1/4-1 point.  Sure didn't mean to hurt your feelings either.  🙄

[bphi11ips]

Shucks, you could at least get my name right.  So sorry that I misunderstood your brilliant 10-10-1/4-1 point.  Sure didn't mean to hurt your feelings either.  🙄

Didn't make a 4-1 point.

[Maddhog]

Didn't make a 4-1 point.

Sorry again. 

[East Clintwood]

Didn't make a 4-1 point.

?

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 23, 2017, 09:10:13 pm

    Go look at who Malzahn has lost to since he took over. I posted it here recently. Something like 4 unranked teams. Three of those were on the road. Most losses have been to Top 10 teams.

    Compare Arkansas 2006 to 2007. Compare Tulsa 2006 to 2007 and 2008. Compare Auburn with Malzahn as OC and without him.

    Malzahn has been to one NC as a head coach and has an inside track to the playoffs this year.

    When Malzahn took over at Auburn, Arkansas and Auburn were even at 10-10-1 in SEC games. Auburn is not head and shoulders above Arkansas, but they are 4-1 aganst us with Malzahn.

    What in the world does this guy have to do before smart football guys like you give him credit?

[Paul]

Gus (as a HC) has had top ten classes at Auburn and he hasn't done a lot with those. If you can't get it done with top 10 classes, how are you going to get it done with lower ranked classes in the same division? We aren't going to suddenly jump up into the top ten in recruiting if he comes here. He may win 1 or 2 more than we did in 2014, 2015 and 2016, but that doesn't put us in contention for the West.

Another factor is that for at least part of the fan base, he has a negative history here that goes back to his departure from the program when Nutt was in charge and the kids he left behind in doing so. I won't get into that because this shouldn't turn into a discussion of something that happened 10 years ago, but there are still negative feelings about that and it will come back to the fore front of discussions the first time he stubs his toe here as a HC.

Norvell is probably a really good coach, but with just under two years at the helm of a G-5 program and given that he is still benefiting from the groundwork laid by Fuentes, I think he needs to prove that he can sustain a program before he merits consideration for a P-5 job and especially one in the SEC. Now he might work out just fine, but the possibility certainly exists that an SEC HC'ing job might be a tad too much, too soon.

I guess any HC that you hire is at least a bit of gamble, but why take bigger gambles than you have to take just because you are unhappy with what Bielema has produced?

Gus hasn't "done more with less" at Auburn. Norvell has certainly done more with less at Memphis, but the majority of his schedule is still G-5 schools, not the SEC grind.

I'd just rather see us go after and throw the bank at a guy who has proven over time that he has won more, with less talent at his disposal. I think that is a key factor for Arkansas to be successful. There are a lot of things that I would like to see in the new HC from an offensive and defensive standpoint, but the first thing is consistently overachieving at the P-5 level with what he has to work with in terms of talent. JMO

then. who u got ?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We good, friend. It was maddog that felt the need to get snarky. If you're gonna get snarky at least know what you're getting snarky about.

Mad Dog 20/20 produces bad results. I haven't gone there since college.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

then. who u got ?

Scroll above.

[Paul]

I like Norvell; he's my second choice behind Malzahn.

However, if he gets the job it'll almost be a feeling of, "Awww....would you look at that. He got the job! Isn't that cute? That's so good for him. Somebody give him a hug right quick!"

The last time I felt this way about a candidate was in December of 1997.

what dies this even mean?

[GoHogs1091]

I would take Gundy in a second, but you do realize his Defense is ranked 84th in the country this year don't you. Where are all the people that constantly rip other candidates for their D?

The truth is it's all a crap shoot. There is no perfect, foolproof coach coming here

Gundy will always lose 2 to 3 games per season until he gets a better defense.

Got to play some actual defense in that run-and-shoot conference.

Poor defense even cost Oklahoma a game this season (against Iowa State).

[bphi11ips]

?

Context?  Read the independent clause. It follows the statement that Arkansas was 10-10-1 when Malzahn took over.  The subordinate clause has nothing to do with the point. It was only an acknowledgement of the record since.

[East Clintwood]

whatever

[Matt Burks]

Very good explanation too. Gus isn't coming, so it's really irrelevant.

I wish I had your confidence.

[farmhawg]

Mad Dog 20/20 produces bad results. I haven't gone there since college.

I just dry heaved a little......

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Gundy will always lose 2 to 3 games per season until he gets a better defense.

Got to play some actual defense in that run-and-shoot conference.

Poor defense even cost Oklahoma a game this season (against Iowa State).

Probably because they didn't have Venables? 

[Danimal]

I wish I had your confidence.

Same here.

[Piggie]

I keep reading Gus can only be successful with a top ten recruiting class. Well, he didn't have it at Hughes, Shiloh, Springdale, Arkansas, Tulsa, or Arkansas State, but he was successful. The guy is good at what he does wherever he goes, and if given the opportunity, he will do well here as well. I never realized how many people hate him. If we hire someone other than Gus, I will support the hire, but I have a feeling the vocal anti-Gus snowflakes  will be just like the Hillary voters who still can't get over her loss to Trump if Gus is chosen. They will weep and gnash their teeth, maybe even do like Antifa and try to burn the stadium down. Good grief, people!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I keep reading Gus can only be successful with a top ten recruiting class. Well, he didn't have it at Hughes, Shiloh, Springdale, Arkansas, Tulsa, or Arkansas State, but he was successful. The guy is good at what he does wherever he goes, and if given the opportunity, he will do well here as well. I never realized how many people hate him. If we hire someone other than Gus, I will support the hire, but I have a feeling the vocal anti-Gus snowflakes  will be just like the Hillary voters who still can't get over her loss to Trump if Gus is chosen. They will weep and gnash their teeth, maybe even do like Antifa and try to burn the stadium down. Good grief, people!

You have an agenda that is nothing but Pro-Gus which blinds you from the standpoint of rational discussion.

[farmhawg]

Probably because they didn't have Venables? 

DO NOT pull that chain.....

[ipigsooie]

I keep reading Gus can only be successful with a top ten recruiting class. Well, he didn't have it at Hughes, Shiloh, Springdale, Arkansas, Tulsa, or Arkansas State, but he was successful. The guy is good at what he does wherever he goes, and if given the opportunity, he will do well here as well. I never realized how many people hate him. If we hire someone other than Gus, I will support the hire, but I have a feeling the vocal anti-Gus snowflakes  will be just like the Hillary voters who still can't get over her loss to Trump if Gus is chosen. They will weep and gnash their teeth, maybe even do like Antifa and try to burn the stadium down. Good grief, people!

^^^^^This is what worries me about hiring Gus. This is literally crazy. It really stinks that the GOBN is ready to take our program back to this. We havent had to deal with this since the HDN days. This is a bad turn to take with our program right now.

[Pig In The City]

Could be....but if he wins next Saturday, we have to demand an answer by the next day. If not, we have to move on that minute.

Now, if his answer is no...and make no mistake about it, Gus and his people made the overture to us....he will never be able to move back here again.

PRJ

If what you say is true that Gus made the first move then I think we have a new coach, no matter what he says to cover for the Iron Bowl. Time will tell.

[Hawg Life]

If what you say is true that Gus made the first move then I think we have a new coach, no matter what he says to cover for the Iron Bowl. Time will tell.

Gus contacted us after the LSU game. He thought his time @ Auburn was all but over then he won the Georgia game, so now he'll get a raise and extension due to Sexton being the best agent in the business.

[Arkansas Fan]

Gus contacted us after the LSU game. He thought his time @ Auburn was all but over then he won the Georgia game, so now he'll get a raise and extension due to Sexton being the best agent in the business.

Let's hope Sexton does his job.

[HawgTide]

Gus contacted us after the LSU game. He thought his time @ Auburn was all but over then he won the Georgia game, so now he’ll get a raise and extension due to Sexton being the best agent in the business.

That's what I think. Gus was down after the LSU loss but the Georgia game changed everything. Sexton leaked his interest in the Hogs to get his client a raise and extension

[bphi11ips]

^^^^^This is what worries me about hiring Gus. This is literally crazy. It really stinks that the GOBN is ready to take our program back to this. We havent had to deal with this since the HDN days. This is a bad turn to take with our program right now.

Let me be sure I understand what you're saying.  You basically agree that Malzahn has been successful everywhere he's been, but you blame the GOBN (the way this acronym is thrown around here cracks me up) for wanting to hire him (if they exist and if they do) because a few people who refuse to shut up have something personal against him?  Why not tell the idiots to shut up?  Or ignore them. 

[bphi11ips]

That's what I think. Gus was down after the LSU loss but the Georgia game changed everything. Sexton leaked his interest in the Hogs to get his client a raise and extension

Got any of that tin foil left?  I need to heat up some turkey and dressing.

[Pecos Hog]

Sounds like Gus is telling both sides what they want to hear.

If Gus is telling both sides what they want to hear, he is either bargaining for more money (very possible), or he plans to come back home.   Seriously, what else could he say at this point? 

[Dropkick]

Let me be sure I understand what you're saying.  You basically agree that Malzahn has been successful everywhere he's been, but you blame the GOBN (the way this acronym is thrown around here cracks me up) for wanting to hire him (if they exist and if they do) because a few people who refuse to shut up have something personal against him?  Why not tell the idiots to shut up?  Or ignore them. 

It's not just a few people as you would like to believe. It will be a divisive hire if it's Gus. I myself will get on board behind him but to act like its only a few is disingenuous.

[Hawg Life]

Got any of that tin foil left?  I need to heat up some turkey and dressing.

I can't wait until Norvell is announced.

[WilsonHog]

I can't wait until Norvell is announced.

You had better hope he is, after the way you have acted on here the past couple of weeks.

[clutch]

As offensive coordinator in 2010 he took a juco to the national title.   In 2013 as head coach he took a juco transfer to the sec title and played for the national title.  If he wins tomorrow, he will take another transfer qb to a sec title and playoff spot. Your logic is not making sense. 

Exactly. He developed none of them. That was my whole point. "His" guys, Johnson and White, were never very good.

[bphi11ips]

Here are some interesting numbers.

Rivals' team rankings are easily available from 2002 to 2007.  From 2002 to 2012, Auburn's average recruiting ranking was 11.6.  Arkansas's was 26.4 for the same period.  From 2013, the year Malzahn became head coach at Auburn and Bielema became head coach at Arkansas, to 2017, Auburn's average ranking was 9.2.  Arkansas's was 27. 

From 1998 to 2017, Arkansas and Auburn are 10-10 head to head.  From 1998 to 2002, Arkansas won 4 of 5.  From 2003 to 2007, Auburn won 4 of 5.  From 2008 to 2012, Arkansas won 4 of 5.  From 2013 to 2017, Auburn won 4 of 5. Auburn also won 4 of 5 from 1993 to 1997.  Is it Arkansas's turn to dominate the next five year cycle?

Arkansas and Auburn have generally been comparable programs, and that is reflected in head-to-head competition.

[Hawg Life]

Here are some interesting numbers.

Rivals' team rankings are easily available from 2002 to 2007.  From 2002 to 2012, Auburn's average recruiting ranking was 11.6.  Arkansas's was 26.4 for the same period.  From 2013, the year Malzahn became head coach at Auburn and Bielema became head coach at Arkansas, to 2017, Auburn's average ranking was 9.2.  Arkansas's was 27. 

From 1998 to 2017, Arkansas and Auburn are 10-10 head to head.  From 1998 to 2002, Arkansas won 4 of 5.  From 2003 to 2007, Auburn won 4 of 5.  From 2008 to 2012, Arkansas won 4 of 5.  From 2013 to 2017, Auburn won 4 of 5. Auburn also won 4 of 5 from 1993 to 1997.  Is it Arkansas's turn to dominate the next five year cycle?

Arkansas and Auburn have generally been comparable programs, and that is reflected in head-to-head competition.

Do you think Gus underachieved?

[bphi11ips]

Do you think Gus underachieved?

No.  Do you?

Let me add that I am not a big believer in recruiting rankings. 

In five years, Malzahn has been to one NC game and currently sits at 6-1 in the SEC with an inside track to the next one.  He did that at a school which was 10-10 against Arkansas in the 20 years before he became head coach.  Would you take his record the last 5 years at Auburn during the next five years at Arkansas?

[Dropkick]

No.  Do you?

Let me add that I am not a big believer in recruiting rankings. 

In five years, Malzahn has been to one NC game and currently sits at 6-1 in the SEC with an inside track to the next one.  He did that at a school which was 10-10 against Arkansas in the 20 years before he became head coach.  Would you take his record the last 5 years at Auburn during the next five years at Arkansas?

Are you Jimmy Sexton?

[jabberjawls]

Do you think Gus underachieved?

Do you think Gus underachieved?

I do, a little, but i think he may be our best realistic choice and will do fine here.  A part of me wants to roll the dice on Norvell, though, so i would be fine with either.

[grayhawg]

In a few years someone else is going to be#1 in the west when Saban retires from Bama, is anyone in the west better to fill his spot than Gus at Auburn or Arkansas?

[GoHogs1091]

I can't wait until Norvell is announced.

A Norvell hiring has some risk.

The only good team with a defense that Norvell has faced this season.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400985406

[Arkansas Fan]

A Norvell hiring has some risk.

The only good team with a defense that Norvell has faced this season.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400985406

Every hire has a risk.

[jabberjawls]

A Norvell hiring has some risk.

The only good team with a defense that Norvell has faced this season.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/game?gameId=400985406

UCF has beaten everyone so i'm not sure that is a good measuring stick.  How has Memphis done against other teams with good defenses?

[bphi11ips]

Are you Jimmy Sexton?

Put Dropkick down for a "No". 

Who is your choice for head coach and how many SEC Championships do you think he'll win in the next five years? 

[GoHogs1091]

Every hire has a risk.

If Norvell can't bring in a very good Defensive Coordinator, then Norvell will find out that you can't rely on just out-scoring SEC opponents.

There is this thing called defense that happens in the SEC, not so much in the garbage conference where Norvell currently coaches.

[clutch]

If Norvell can't bring in a very good Defensive Coordinator, then Norvell will find out that you can't rely on just out-scoring SEC opponents.

There is this thing called defense that happens in the SEC, not so much in the garbage conference where Norvell currently coaches.

Yeah, I'm sure he is unaware of that. It's so funny seeing how many people think he would just throw a defense out there and not care about it at all. I'm sure he'd always have an offensive focused team, but I can guarantee you that if he is hired he is going to do whatever he can to have a good defense too. Even the most offensive minded coaches would prefer to have a good defense too. It's stupid to think otherwise. Teams may win 50-49, but I can guarantee you they'd rather win 50-14. Nobody at that level is walking into the job thinking that they can outscore everyone every single game without having some sense of a defense as well.