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Still Think The Big East Is Overrated?

Started by bigdaddyhawg, April 04, 2011, 10:37:59 pm

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The Hogfather

April 05, 2011, 11:59:31 am #50 Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 12:01:35 pm by The Hogfather
Quote from: nwarazfan on April 05, 2011, 11:55:04 am
Bilas was right before the tourney ever started when he said something to the effect that this was the weakest field ever.  UConn's ability to recruit size being in a major conference like the Big East was the difference in the game last night.  Even if Mack and Howard hit a few more shots, UConn was going to dominate the second half.  We knew going in UConn's length was going to be an advantage but seeing it on Butler's first possession I wondered how they were even going to be competitive. 

Same here.  I was really surprised that they were able to have a lead at half.  I knew UCONN was the better offensive team and would make more shots in the 2nd half, I wasn't sure if there was anything Butler could do to make more shots.  Every shot they took was either altered, blocked, or hurried because of UCONN's length/athleticism.

Dogtown Donkey

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 11:52:22 am
It was a quick search.  As I said, most of it was on ESPN, with the "experts" talking about how tough the Big East is and it is a battle every night in the toughest league in America, etc.  The 1st one had a quote from Jay Bilas saying that the Big East was "clearly the best from top-to-bottom".

They are the best from top to bottom. That isn't the same as dominant. There isn't a dominant basketball conference like there is in football.

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 11:52:22 amExcept for the fact that Tennessee beat Pitt and Villanova.  We beat Seton Hall (granted, without Hazell).  Vandy beat Marquette.  Kentucky beat Louisville and Notre Dame.  Etc.  I guess the Big East isn't heavy at all.  Many of their "top teams" got beat by SEC teams and fizzle out in the Tournament.  Not really good things if you are "clearly the best conference in college basketball".

I'll give you that a number of their teams fizzled out in the tournament, but I put less weight into pre-conference games. Not to say I discount them.

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 11:52:22 am2 weeks before he caught fire around here, maybe.  That doesn't mean much.

Here, and later OU, are probably the only two places his name caught fire......

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 11:52:22 amOh yeah, after that loss that they had.  Where were all your threads back then?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Did you want me to make a thread when they lost? I never made a thread when they won. I never made a thread when they beat Syracuse. I only made three threads about Buzz Williams. The first one saying I thought he be a great candidate if we fired Pelphrey, the second saying that people needed to calm down because he isn't coming here, and a third stating that he received a new contract at Marquette. Most of the Buzz Williams threads were not made by me.

And yes, they suffered a bad loss in the tournament. It happens, especially when you play a team as good as UNC. Even the guy coaching us now suffered a bad tournament loss this year. It happens.

 

nwarazfan

I'll follow Buzz and Marquette next season as well. 

jgphillips3

One thing this whole tournament proved to me is that it is time for college basketball to adopt college baseball rules about the draft. Go straight from high school if you want, but if you do go to college, you are staying three years before you can be drafted again.

The Hogfather

Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on April 05, 2011, 12:05:30 pm
They are the best from top to bottom. That isn't the same as dominant. There isn't a dominant basketball conference like there is in football.

"Clearly the best" indicates dominance to me.  And, again, them being the best from top-to-bottom is clearly debatable.

Quote from: Dogtown Donkey on April 05, 2011, 12:05:30 pm
I'll give you that a number of their teams fizzled out in the tournament, but I put less weight into pre-conference games. Not to say I discount them.

What else is there to judge relative conference strength besides non-conference games and the NCAAT?  Nothing.

QuoteHere, and later OU, are probably the only two places his name caught fire......

He has been all over the place the last month.

QuoteI'm not sure I understand your question. Did you want me to make a thread when they lost? I never made a thread when they won. I never made a thread when they beat Syracuse. I only made three threads about Buzz Williams. The first one saying I thought he be a great candidate if we fired Pelphrey, the second saying that people needed to calm down because he isn't coming here, and a third stating that he received a new contract at Marquette. Most of the Buzz Williams threads were not made by me.

Exactly.  If you have "thought all along he is a great coach", why haven't we seen any discussion of him by you until the last month?  It is because you got caught up in the media craze.  That's why.

Dogtown Donkey

Quote from: jgphillips3 on April 05, 2011, 12:13:16 pm
One thing this whole tournament proved to me is that it is time for college basketball to adopt college baseball rules about the draft. Go straight from high school if you want, but if you do go to college, you are staying three years before you can be drafted again.

The NBA would have to adopt that rule. You can't make someone stay in college. It's the NBA Draft, not the NCAA Draft. I don't believe in an age limit at all. It's un-American to hold someone back from an opportunity to provide for their families. High school kids have proven they can successfully transition to the NBA quickly. Sure, some fail, but so do a lot of college seniors.

The Hogfather

April 05, 2011, 12:21:14 pm #56 Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 12:22:49 pm by The Hogfather
The bottom line is, there has been no evidence put forth ON THE COURT that indicates the Big East is "clearly the best conference in college basketball".  If anything, there has been more evidence pointing to them being overrated and/or overhyped.

And on that note, I'm not going to continue this discussion anymore.  I've stated my case and it is obvious we're not going to agree. 

Dogtown Donkey

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 12:17:14 pm
Exactly.  If you have "thought all along he is a great coach", why haven't we seen any discussion of him by you until the last month?  It is because you got caught up in the media craze.  That's why.

Uh, no.

It's because for the longest time it was believed that Pelphrey would be back for a 5th season. When it became clear to me that he wouldn't be, I threw Buzz's name out there. Had nothing to do with some kind imaginary media craze behind Buzz Williams.

And you can actually find posts of my about Buzz from before the thread I made if you dig deep enough. Probably from like late January.

Dogtown Donkey

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 12:21:14 pm
The bottom line is, there has been no evidence put forth ON THE COURT that indicates the Big East is "clearly the best conference in college basketball".  If anything, there has been more evidence pointing to them being overrated and/or overhyped.

And on that note, I'm not going to continue this discussion anymore.  I've stated my case and it is obvious we're not going to agree.

At least we can agree to disagree and not want to discuss this anymore.

For now, the Big East had a record setting year in terms of teams in the tournament and produced the tournament champion.

cthog99

Quote from: The Hogfather on April 05, 2011, 11:59:31 am
Same here.  I was really surprised that they were able to have a lead at half.  I knew UCONN was the better offensive team and would make more shots in the 2nd half, I wasn't sure if there was anything Butler could do to make more shots.  Every shot they took was either altered, blocked, or hurried because of UCONN's length/athleticism.

Butler had the lead because Oriakhi and Lamb only played about 10 minutes after picking up two fouls. Then Uconn played the last 2 and a half minutes without kemba after he picked up his 2nd foul. That's one rule Calhoun has always had. If you get 2 fouls, you sit for the rest of the half. It doesn't matter who you are, and it always works out.