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  • #51 by MAL3 on 13 Oct 2017
  • This argument is too extreme. If the hip metropolitan city is the most important thing, how do you account for historically great programs in Norman OK (I've been there, nothing special), South Bend (I've been there, nothing special, but campus is pretty), Lincoln, Tuscaloosa (seriously?), Auburn, or Clemson (never been there, but hardly big-city)?

    As for the appeal of Los Angeles, Miami, Seattle, Atlanta…I get it. But here's my question there. What college athlete has the $$ to operate in high-dollar places like that? So how important ARE those cities to the schools in them? In my 4 years in Fayetteville, I always knew who was having cheap beer/half-price beer nights. Besides, the high-end clubs and cocktail bars didn't exist then anyway. (Even now, when I'm at a nice mixology joint in Dallas, and see young 20-somethings, I wonder how they're paying for 15-dollar a pop cocktails.)

    Back to football/recruiting…this has always been an interesting topic for years. I've never understood the idea that "you can't recruit kids to Fayetteville/Northwest Arkansas." Again, not when Norman, Oklahoma (etc) exists. I doubt any Sooner fan says "we just can't recruit in a place like this."

    Fayetteville isn't the problem. It's got enough to sell, outside of being near a million+ population city. Our program and our coaching staff has to do the heavy lifting. And that has to be a tougher job NOW than at any time in recent memory.

    Louisville does......or did!
  • #52 by Piggfoot on 13 Oct 2017
  • I've lived in both places, both are extremely beautiful.  Unless you were trying to make a poor little ole arkansas crack?  Arkansas has what it needs to compete in modern times, as proven by Houston Nutt and Bobby Petrino.
    in this instance I was talking about little ole Arkansas. Metro Seattle has almost 4 million people. Wash St has almost 8 million. Nutt and Petrino both had difference making Arkansas high school players that we haven't had since Bielema has been here.
  • #53 by AP85 on 13 Oct 2017
  • Doing more with less is Arkansas only option. It would have to be a HC with a creative mind on both sides of the ball.

    This.
  • #54 by 311Hog on 13 Oct 2017
  • you know this is what i have been talking about for awhile.  It "can" happen here, but it would require a name brand coach on a level not seen here before at least not in the last 30 years.

    Sure some would say Petrino, and he is the closest thing to that name brand coach i am talking about, but even he could not reach the heights that Peterson has with UW.

    In all the talk about firing CBB etc. and all the coaches named as "possible" replacements the odds are none of them have even half the name brand weight it would require to turn us into the next UW.

    I don't think there are 5 coaches in NCAA football with the capability of doing that here.
  • #55 by Next1_04 on 13 Oct 2017
  • Just stop.

    Surprised you can type with your hands still down Petrino's pants.
  • #56 by Tejano Jawg on 13 Oct 2017
  • Louisville does......or did!

    LOL…however, they WERE being subsidized by higher powers.
  • #57 by MAL3 on 13 Oct 2017
  • LOL…however, they WERE being subsidized by higher powers.

     ;D
  • #58 by AP85 on 13 Oct 2017
  • This argument is too extreme. If the hip metropolitan city is the most important thing, how do you account for historically great programs in Norman OK (I've been there, nothing special), South Bend (I've been there, nothing special, but campus is pretty), Lincoln, Tuscaloosa (seriously?), Auburn, or Clemson (never been there, but hardly big-city)?

    As for the appeal of Los Angeles, Miami, Seattle, Atlanta…I get it. But here's my question there. What college athlete has the $$ to operate in high-dollar places like that? So how important ARE those cities to the schools in them? In my 4 years in Fayetteville, I always knew who was having cheap beer/half-price beer nights. Besides, the high-end clubs and cocktail bars didn't exist then anyway. (Even now, when I'm at a nice mixology joint in Dallas, and see young 20-somethings, I wonder how they're paying for 15-dollar a pop cocktails.)

    Back to football/recruiting…this has always been an interesting topic for years. I've never understood the idea that "you can't recruit kids to Fayetteville/Northwest Arkansas." Again, not when Norman, Oklahoma (etc) exists. I doubt any Sooner fan says "we just can't recruit in a place like this."

    Fayetteville isn't the problem. It's got enough to sell, outside of being near a million+ population city. Our program and our coaching staff has to do the heavy lifting. And that has to be a tougher job NOW than at any time in recent memory.

    Youre missing the point. It’s location and accessibility. Yes Norman is a head scratcher but they live off of TEXAS. Same with Lincoln.

    South bend. Spitting distance of large metro areas like Chicago, Indianapolis, and the fertile state of Ohio. Also, Michigan...who has good high school football.

    SAME goes for Tuscaloosa. Auburn. And Clemson. Location. Location. Location. Close proximity to Atlanta and fertile hot bed STATES.

    Draw a three hour radius around Fayetteville and you I got:
    1. Tulsa.
    2. Joplin.
    3. Springfield.
    4. Branson.
    5. Mountain home
    6. Clinton
    7. Mena
  • #59 by 311Hog on 13 Oct 2017
  • that line up of 7 cities just screams elite football talent ......
  • #60 by DLUXHOG on 13 Oct 2017
  • that line up of 7 cities just screams elite football talent ......

    Tulsa, Joplin, and Springfield actually and usually compete for state championships every year.......
  • #61 by JaketheSnake on 13 Oct 2017
  • Yea...so sick of this...that's why we are where we are.
    This argument is so stupid.  Nobody at the UofA thinks like that... only message board posters and radio show callers use that as an excuse for us not being Bama. 
  • #62 by JaketheSnake on 13 Oct 2017
  • Youre missing the point. It’s location and accessibility. Yes Norman is a head scratcher but they live off of TEXAS. Same with Lincoln.

    South bend. Spitting distance of large metro areas like Chicago, Indianapolis, and the fertile state of Ohio. Also, Michigan...who has good high school football.

    SAME goes for Tuscaloosa. Auburn. And Clemson. Location. Location. Location. Close proximity to Atlanta and fertile hot bed STATES.

    Draw a three hour radius around Fayetteville and you I got:
    1. Tulsa.
    2. Joplin.
    3. Springfield.
    4. Branson.
    5. Mountain home
    6. Clinton
    7. Mena

    Watch it... Branson produced Steven Hill.
  • #63 by phadedhawg on 13 Oct 2017
  • I agree that the SEC looks down this year but Washington's schedule has been fairly soft so far.

    Week 1 @Rutgers win 30-14
    Week 2 Montana  win  63-7
    Week 3 Frenso State win 48-16
    Week 4 @ Colorado State win 37-10
    Week 5 @ Oregon State  win 42-7
    Week 6 California win 38-7

    This week they play @ASU.  Honestly we don't really know how good Washington is at this moment.  As someone said they didn't look very good vs USC last year and they don't play them this year.  At this moment only 2 ranked teams are on their schedule, #23 Stanford Nov 10th and the Apple Cup vs #8 Washington State.  WSU has actually beaten somebody, #5 USC. 

    I'm hoping both Washington schools are undefeated for the Apple Cup and of course I will be cheering for Washington State as always. 

    If Washington was in the SEC, there's a good chance they would not be undefeated right now. 
  • #64 by AP85 on 13 Oct 2017
  • Watch it... Branson produced Steven Hill.

    I just.........


    Steven hill.
  • #65 by DLUXHOG on 13 Oct 2017
  • Watch it... Branson produced Steven Hill.

    Branson has always been salty......  even before it was "Branson" (Ozarks Las Vegas, in their minds)
  • #66 by 311Hog on 13 Oct 2017
  • I agree that the SEC looks down this year but Washington's schedule has been fairly soft so far.

    Week 1 @Rutgers win 30-14
    Week 2 Montana  win  63-7
    Week 3 Frenso State win 48-16
    Week 4 @ Colorado State win 37-10
    Week 5 @ Oregon State  win 42-7
    Week 6 California win 38-7

    This week they play @ASU.  Honestly we don't really know how good Washington is at this moment.  As someone said they didn't look very good vs USC last year and they don't play them this year.  At this moment only 2 ranked teams are on their schedule, #23 Stanford Nov 10th and the Apple Cup vs #8 Washington State.  WSU has actually beaten somebody, #5 USC. 

    I'm hoping both Washington schools are undefeated for the Apple Cup and of course I will be cheering for Washington State as always. 

    If Washington was in the SEC, there's a good chance they would not be undefeated right now. 

    murders row of teams in your first 6 weeks if i ever saw one ...... and they don't even have to play USC you say? wow must be hard.
  • #67 by Redhogs on 13 Oct 2017
  • This argument is so stupid.  Nobody at the UofA thinks like that... only message board posters and radio show callers use that as an excuse for us not being Bama.
    HDN believed it and came right out and said it, with many fans agreeing with him..that's how it started. Is it wrong and an excuse for underperforming..you bet, and it is stupid and for losers.
  • #68 by Redhogs on 13 Oct 2017
  • Surprised you can type with your hands still down Petrino's pants.
    Showing your ass again I see.
  • #69 by DeltaBoy on 13 Oct 2017
  • Memphis is winning with folks from N E Miss and Western Tenn ie the Memphis Metro area.
  • #70 by Sweet Feet on 13 Oct 2017
  • Seattle and Fayetteville are complete opposites.... You are talking about a city of 600,000 with so much to do vs a city of 70,000 with nothing to do. Washington is also a better program football wise.

    Arkansas can still get some recruits. Nutt did it. Just going to have to start relying more on Texas, along with hoping that LR can resurge in the football department.
  • #71 by 311Hog on 13 Oct 2017
  • Memphis is winning with folks from N E Miss and Western Tenn ie the Memphis Metro area.

    So if we want to compete for the conference USA title we should follow their model?

  • #72 by hogsanity on 13 Oct 2017
  • But actually doing something with it...great job of coaching / recruiting / player development / maintaining program identity



    How many Pac12 schools are ranked above them in recruiting? I would assume USC - then who from their league. Arkansas signs the 22nd ranked class and there could be 8 or 9 SEC teams with better classes.
  • #73 by ZERO on 13 Oct 2017
  • We are talking about the proximity to fertile recruiting grounds - we are in the middle of it.

    Seattle - not so much....being close to home usually means something~

    In addition, football players probably have their eye on the NFL and are not all that concerned w the natural beauty, quality of pot and liberal attitudes....otherwise WA would recruit #1 instead of Bama.

    Bama doesn't recruit #1 because it's beautiful in Alabama

    Hipsters and artsy types covet the PNW for it's general atmosphere. Athletes don't have a dream to move to Seattle where the coffee is supreme and vegan restaurants are plentiful. It's true, you can't compare Arkansas to Washington. You don't have to when you're trying to recruit football players. We should have the advantage because even though all the talent isn't in our backyard, it's right over the neighbor's fence. People saying Washington, Washington has an inherent football advantage over us are being too obtuse to even deal with. The handiest excuse isn't always the right one.

    Washington is doing what we're doing, only they're doing it right and we don't actually know what the f*ck we're doing. Their average recruit in this round's class is an 89 rated 3* right now. Chris Petersen's teams have an identity. They picked something and got good at it and recruited to that need. A high 3* with a good coach is good enough to put up a fight. I'm not buying that Arkansas can't at least go 4-4 in conference on any given year with a good coach and similar players rated in a #20ish class.
  • #74 by hogsanity on 13 Oct 2017
  • Hipsters and artsy types covet the PNW for it's general atmosphere. Athletes don't have a dream to move to Seattle where the coffee is supreme and vegan restaurants are plentiful. It's true, you can't compare Arkansas to Washington. You don't have to when you're trying to recruit football players. We should have the advantage because even though all the talent isn't in our backyard, it's right over the neighbor's fence. People saying Washington, Washington has an inherent football advantage over us are being too obtuse to even deal with. The handiest excuse isn't always the right one.

    Washington is doing what we're doing, only they're doing it right and we don't actually know what the f*ck we're doing. Their average recruit in this round's class is an 89 rated 3* right now. Chris Petersen's teams have an identity. They picked something and got good at it and recruited to that need. A high 3* with a good coach is good enough to put up a fight. I'm not buying that Arkansas can't at least go 4-4 in conference on any given year with a good coach and similar players rated in a #20ish class.

    How many p5 signees come from within 300 miles of Fayetteville? How many from within 300 Miles of Seattle?
  • #75 by jst01 on 13 Oct 2017
  • How many p5 signees come from within 300 miles of Fayetteville? How many from within 300 Miles of Seattle?

    how many?
  • #76 by Hogball58 on 13 Oct 2017
  • Marijuana is legal on the west coast
  • #77 by longpig on 13 Oct 2017
  • How many Pac12 schools are ranked above them in recruiting? I would assume USC - then who from their league. Arkansas signs the 22nd ranked class and there could be 8 or 9 SEC teams with better classes.

    Yeh, USC and Stanford.   UW,  Az. St., UCLA, Utah and sometimes Cal are close 3rds.
  • #78 by 10thPlanet on 13 Oct 2017
  • UW believes they don't have the ability to compete in the Pac, without Texas, and Cali. Read their boards, they discuss lack of Seattle and WA talent.
  • #79 by 10thPlanet on 13 Oct 2017
  • Marijuana is legal on the west coast
    DUI is a DUI there too, still gets you booted off the teams. I know we drive better high, than drunk. Still a curb is high enough to wipe out my moped.
  • #80 by NotSoFastMyFriend on 13 Oct 2017
  • Population:

    Washington 7.288 million
    Arkansas 2.988 million

    Immediate proximity to more than double the talent. Of course they are better.
  • #81 by Tejano Jawg on 13 Oct 2017
  • SAME goes for Tuscaloosa. Auburn. And Clemson. Location. Location. Location. Close proximity to Atlanta and fertile hot bed STATES.

    Draw a three hour radius around Fayetteville and you I got:
    1. Tulsa.
    2. Joplin.
    3. Springfield.
    4. Branson.
    5. Mountain home
    6. Clinton
    7. Mena

    What is magical about a 3 hour radius? If you stretch that to 5, you have Dallas.

    Put that 3 hour rule around Alabama (and it's dumb to compare to Alabama) and you've eliminated a large portion of their roster. Sure lots of relevant Bama players on the team…as are players from Houston (8+ hours) and many Texas towns, California, Hawaii, south Florida and the northeastern U.S.
  • #82 by 311Hog on 13 Oct 2017
  • What is magical about a 3 hour radius? If you stretch that to 5, you have Dallas.

    Put that 3 hour rule around Alabama (and it's dumb to compare to Alabama) and you've eliminated a large portion of their roster. Sure lots of relevant Bama players on the team…as are players from Houston (8+ hours) and many Texas towns, California, Hawaii, south Florida and the northeastern U.S.

    this is because bama transcends the 3 hour rule.  but statistically speaking a 3 hour circle around your location will give you an accurate sampling of your talent base.
  • #83 by From Tusk Till Dawn on 13 Oct 2017
  • you know this is what i have been talking about for awhile.  It "can" happen here, but it would require a name brand coach on a level not seen here before at least not in the last 30 years.

    Sure some would say Petrino, and he is the closest thing to that name brand coach i am talking about, but even he could not reach the heights that Peterson has with UW.

    In all the talk about firing CBB etc. and all the coaches named as "possible" replacements the odds are none of them have even half the name brand weight it would require to turn us into the next UW.

    I don't think there are 5 coaches in NCAA football with the capability of doing that here.

    Agree 100%.  A name brand coach becomes a magnet that draws recruits and minimizes some of the geographical inequalities.  But... once the shine wears off the work gets harder and thats because we are in the Sec west.  Another poster mentioned that we may be 25thish in the country but still like 4th or 5th in our division.  Thats the prob with an up and comer, they likely wont recruit any better than we ever have, so they are dependent on developing the talent they have.  And as goes our happiness on Saturdays.
  • #84 by 10thPlanet on 13 Oct 2017
  • Population:

    Washington 7.288 million
    Arkansas 2.988 million

    Immediate proximity to more than double the talent. Of course they are better.
    Less play football per capita. Rowing is a big sport there. We get drunk and row the Buffalo River.
  • #85 by Tejano Jawg on 13 Oct 2017
  • this is because bama transcends the 3 hour rule.  but statistically speaking a 3 hour circle around your location will give you an accurate sampling of your talent base.

    Fair enough. And as I said, it's kinda pointless using Alabama as any sort of barometer for anything—they're on their own scale.

    But as for the 3 hour thing, this is nothing new. It's not like we were always plentiful in recruiting great talent within that area, and now it's dried up. (Although we've had some good ones from Tulsa.)
  • #86 by twistitup on 13 Oct 2017
  • Fair enough. And as I said, it's kinda pointless using Alabama as any sort of barometer for anything—they're on their own scale.

    But as for the 3 hour thing, this is nothing new. It's not like we were always plentiful in recruiting great talent within that area, and now it's dried up. (Although we've had some good ones from Tulsa.)

    We still do - don't be fooled. LR, Tulsa, Springfield, Joplin......and just outside of 3hrs is DALLAS - not to mention EAST TEXAS which is a hotbed of football talent. We have plenty of talent in a 3-5 hr radius. PLENTY

    Everybody is just looking for excuses to be avg. - IF we would field a good football team consistently - recruiting would take care of itself......at this point it is a VERY BIG risk signing with Arkansas - no identity, no stablity

    Oklahoma has both stability and an identity - kids feel confident that they will be successful at OK....they can't say the say the same about us.

    Palestine Tx is where OK got Adrian Peterson from - N East Texas - many, many more examples from that area
  • #87 by jst01 on 13 Oct 2017


  • That's a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville.  There should be plenty of talent in that circle.
  • #88 by 10thPlanet on 13 Oct 2017


  • That's a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville.  There should be plenty of talent in that circle.
    Fuel is cheap, auto's are more dependable and get better MPG than ever before. Recruiting dollars flow like falling from trees. Around the clock sports networks. You win for a few years and work hard as a staff, there's no excuse.
  • #89 by twistitup on 13 Oct 2017
  • Thanks Jst.....that is KC, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Shreveport, Memphis, OKC, Tulsa, St. Louis, eastern KS, NE Texas, N. Louisiana, etc.....

    If we can't do it - it's our own damn fault

  • #90 by NotSoFastMyFriend on 13 Oct 2017
  • Less play football per capita. Rowing is a big sport there. We get drunk and row the Buffalo River.
    Okay but why are there 73 kids in 247 Sports' database for the 2018 class in Washington but only 20 for Arkansas for the same class?
  • #91 by Mo_Better_Hogs on 13 Oct 2017
  • Fair enough. And as I said, it's kinda pointless using Alabama as any sort of barometer for anything—they're on their own scale.

    But as for the 3 hour thing, this is nothing new. It's not like we were always plentiful in recruiting great talent within that area, and now it's dried up. (Although we've had some good ones from Tulsa.)

    Agree with this point. Fayetteville hasn't moved because of plate tectonics in the past 5 years. Now, talent WILL come and go in that "3 hour radius" area, same as talent within the state of Arkansas does. Is the issue that what we have in our 3 hour radius isn't as strong as other schools? OK, I get it with some in the hotbeds (Bama, AU, LSU), but not everyone.

    JST01's map is interesting.
  • #92 by DLUXHOG on 13 Oct 2017


  • That's a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville.  There should be plenty of talent in that circle.

    yes, since the 4th largest MSA in the US is in that radius...
  • #93 by Inhogswetrust on 13 Oct 2017
  • Amazing what making the playoffs will do for a program. 

    Even more amazing what the right coach will do for ya.
  • #94 by From Tusk Till Dawn on 13 Oct 2017
  • Thats the issue, 1/3 of that map is the entire state of arkansas.  I havent looked at that stat in awhile but our small population just doesnt produce that many 4 and 5 stars so we have to focus on the perimeters much more.  Dallas area requires us to recruit against how many p5 schools? 
  • #95 by Inhogswetrust on 13 Oct 2017
  • Have you been to Clemson?   It is, by astronomical proportions, far more remote than Fayetteville.....

    I've worked in Greenville and it's not little and only a few minutes drive from Clemson. Depending on what part of Greenville or Clemson you are going to/from it can be as little as a 30 minute drive. It's included in the Greenville/Spartanburg metro area with about a MILLION population. It's also not too far from Atlanta.
  • #96 by Inhogswetrust on 13 Oct 2017
  • Thanks Jst.....that is KC, Dallas, Ft. Worth, Shreveport, Memphis, OKC, Tulsa, St. Louis, eastern KS, NE Texas, N. Louisiana, etc.....

    If we can't do it - it's our own damn fault



    No it's the fault of whomever the head recruiter is. Guess who that is right now!
  • #97 by razorbackfaninar on 13 Oct 2017


  • That's a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville.  There should be plenty of talent in that circle.

    There isn't as much as you think in that circle.  Look at this compilation of where all of the top 15 rated recruits are from from 2000 to the present
  • #98 by jst01 on 13 Oct 2017
  • AR can stop worrying about top 15 recruits, that isn’t happening. I get your point tho. The key is getting top 100 recruits in skill positions. That’s doable.
  • #99 by HiggiePiggy on 13 Oct 2017
  • in this instance I was talking about little ole Arkansas. Metro Seattle has almost 4 million people. Wash St has almost 8 million. Nutt and Petrino both had difference making Arkansas high school players that we haven't had since Bielema has been here.

    I think this is false and Beliemas record in the second half shows it.  He has had a lot of good players during his time here.  He is just terrible when it comes to making adjustments. That is one reason he has never been able t come back in a second half and win a game.  It is also why he has lost a lot of games where he was either tied or winning in the second half.  He has had the talent here to win games. He just doesn’t have the ability to adjust therefore losing many games that he should have won. 
  • #100 by OneTuskOverTheLine™ on 13 Oct 2017
  • We are talking about the proximity to fertile recruiting grounds - we are in the middle of it.

    Seattle - not so much....being close to home usually means something~

    In addition, football players probably have their eye on the NFL and are not all that concerned w the natural beauty, quality of pot and liberal attitudes....otherwise WA would recruit #1 instead of Bama.

    Bama doesn't recruit #1 because it's beautiful in Alabama

     Every Western Canadian that plays american football that wants to go to the NCAA can get a shot there too. Their are many southern transplants of the athletic nature up there as well as pacific islanders. The area is not slouchy for talent. Rankings are still bullcrap. Sure you have the Bama evidence, but for the past 20 years the U's of T, Texas and Tennessee, have been right up there in those rankings too...
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