Nope, Not an Illegal Play...but ignorant Folks Think So

[arkansasrazorback]

http://footballscoop.com/news/ole-miss-should-have-won-that-game-no-really-they-should-have-won/

[spiritof92]

That guy probably is hogz11's friend.  Nothing to worry about, people.  Only one stupid crazy guy on the loose. 

[arkansasrazorback]

That guy probably is hogz11's friend.  Nothing to worry about, people.  Only one stupid crazy guy on the loose.

hahaha.  I'm not worried.  Doesn't matter now anyway.  Just putting it out there.

[OGR69]

oh well-we finally catch a break-let someone else cry about it-how many times have we been screwed by blown/messed up calls?  I'll take it regardless.

[hogsanity]

What is funny is that apparently not one of the old misses coaches, ga's or players knew this rule, or they would have raised holy crap about it. 

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

So, by that logic, if Georgia Tech were to run the option and lateral backwards to the option half-back on 4th down it would be a dead ball where the player received the ball.

[hogsanity]

So, by that logic, if Georgia Tech were to run the option and lateral backwards to the option half-back on 4th down it would be a dead ball where the player received the ball.

That is where the grey area is, when does a backward pass become a fumble, does it become a fumble at all? Is it a fumble if you intentionally throw the ball backwards? It has to be a fumble because if the D recovers it , they get the ball.

[Lake City Hog]

Chief, I think that the ball hitting the ground is the key, but who cares? We FINALLY catch a huge break and I for one ain't about to feel bad about it!!!

[spiritof92]

If I'm Ole Miss I would worry more about the 30+ yards Collins picked up as well as giving up over 50 points.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

That is where the grey area is, when does a backward pass become a fumble, does it become a fumble at all? Is it a fumble if you intentionally throw the ball backwards? It has to be a fumble because if the D recovers it , they get the ball.

I would say it's a "live ball," not necessarily a fumble.  The forward pass is a live ball as long as it is in the air.  The backwards pass is simply a live ball even if it hits the ground.  "Fumble" indicates possession. 

I would be curious if that rule has ever been enforced and how it was enforced.

Anyways, it doesn't matter now.

[DoubleReedHawgCaller]

There would've been no change in possession. We either get the first down or the game is over.

[LightHog]

That was not a change of possession play - were it not for the first down the game would have ended on that fourth-down play.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

There would've been no change in possession. We either get the first down or the game is over.

That was not a change of possession play - were it not for the first down the game would have ended on that fourth-down play.

Good points.

[The Boar War]

By definition isn't spiking the ball intentional grounding.  I've never seen it called that way.

[hogsanity]

I would say it's a "live ball," not necessarily a fumble.  The forward pass is a live ball as long as it is in the air.  The backwards pass is simply a live ball even if it hits the ground.  "Fumble" indicates possession. 

I would be curious if that rule has ever been enforced and how it was enforced.

Anyways, it doesn't matter now.

I've seen it enforced on forward fumbles. This is why sports rule books are X pages long, and the interpretations and applications books are 2 or 3 times as long. There is always some whacked out unimaginable play that can come up.

[KevinOMReb]

Ball should have been dead once it hit the ground.   Game over.

[arkansasrazorback]

Ball should have been dead once it hit the ground.   Game over.

Nope you are wrong.  But of course you would think this.

[spiritof92]

I don't troll the OM boards only because their boards are already crap.  It would be like drawing a mustache on a Tom Selleck portrait. 

[h0gfan6]

Ball should have been dead once it hit the ground.   Game over.

This is incorrect, as per the rules. 

[hogsanity]

Nope you are wrong.  But of course you would think this.

explain why he is wrong.

I am not saying he is not wrong, but it appears to be a gray area at best.

[Brer Hog]

That is where the grey area is, when does a backward pass become a fumble, does it become a fumble at all? Is it a fumble if you intentionally throw the ball backwards? It has to be a fumble because if the D recovers it , they get the ball.

What a freakin' idiot this blogger is.  You learn in Pee Wee football, heck actually earlier if you're paying attention, that a forward pass is dead if it hits the ground before it is caught by an eligible receiver (offensive or defensive).  If a live ball is passed backword (lateralled) then it remains live until is caught or recovered, or advanced until tackled, even if it hits the ground.  The rule that this rube does not understand is if a ball if fumbled forward on first down, then it is blown dead because the intent is not to allow the ball to be fumbled forward because then the team taking possession would be put at disadvantage with respect to where the change of possession actually took place.  OLE MISS your obtuse is definitely showing....

Go the Hell Ole Miss!

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Ball should have been dead once it hit the ground.   Game over.

Game over.  Hogs win.

[strathog]

 I think the ole miss player's touching of the ball before AC kept the play live.

[KevinOMReb]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed. 

[hogsanity]

This is incorrect, as per the rules. 

really? rule is pretty clear, a fumble on 4th down can only be advanced by the fumbler. The question is if a lateral is a fumble just because it hits the ground.

[arkansasrazorback]

explain why he is wrong.

I am not saying he is not wrong, but it appears to be a gray area at best.

I saw somewhere on Twitter that Mike Pereira explained the rule on a play like this at one point and it was in our favor.  That is all I know. 

[spiritof92]

really? rule is pretty clear, a fumble on 4th down can only be advanced by the fumbler. The question is if a lateral is a fumble just because it hits the ground.

The intent was obvious imo.  Will never convince Old Miss fans, though.

[hogsanity]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed. 

you were screwed by scoring 45 pts in regulation and not being able to keep the opponent under that. This happens to most speed offense teams. Eventually, their defense is this because of the proclivity of the coach to recruit offense 1st, then said defense is left on the field for 41 minutes, and they just can't stop anyone.

[ErieHog]

That is where the grey area is, when does a backward pass become a fumble, does it become a fumble at all? Is it a fumble if you intentionally throw the ball backwards? It has to be a fumble because if the D recovers it , they get the ball.

There's no gray to it;  a backward pass cannot be a fumble.    They condense the rules to cover both scenarios in the same section.

Its like including the rules for advancing a backwards swing pass out in the flat--  it doesn't magically become an incompletion, simply because it hits the field.  It remains an advancable live ball on a backwards pass.

[Brer Hog]

The intent was obvious imo.  Will never convince Old Miss fans, though.

Maybe this will!  SCOREBOARD!

[hogsanity]

The intent was obvious imo.  Will never convince Old Miss fans, though.

no mention of intent in the rules, a lateral has to be a fumble once it hits the ground, why else would the defense be able to recover a backwards pass on the ground and get possession?

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

really? rule is pretty clear, a fumble on 4th down can only be advanced by the fumbler. The question is if a lateral is a fumble just because it hits the ground.

Was it a possession changing play or a game-ending play?  If the ball was whistled dead, the game would have been over.  The possession wouldn't have changed.

[dhornjr1]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed. 

Welcome to our world. We have received some epic screwjobs over the last few years.

[STLHogFan]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed.

Aww. Boo hoo!  Hogs were screwed at the end of the first half with that phantom last second and the bogus PI call.  Go cry in your drink.

[King Kong]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed.

Don't give up 45 points with your Defense that is supposedly the most talented in the SEC and nothing to worry about

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed. 

[arkansasrazorback]

Aww. Boo hoo!  Hogs were screwed at the end of the first half with that phantom last second and the bogus PI call.  Go cry in your drink.

or the clear PI on Sprinkle near the end zone

[hogsanity]

There's no gray to it;  a backward pass cannot be a fumble.    They condense the rules to cover both scenarios in the same section.

Its like including the rules for advancing a backwards swing pass out in the flat--  it doesn't magically become an incompletion, simply because it hits the field.  It remains an advancable live ball on a backwards pass.

it becomes a fumble, or the defense would not be able to gain possession. Also, in your scenario, the backwards swing pass would be behind the LOS.

But, I agree with you and the refs, unless the rules specifically state that a LATERAL is a fumble once it hits the ground, then there is no way to have ruled any way other than what they did.

[Atlhogfan1]

http://footballscoop.com/news/ole-miss-should-have-won-that-game-no-really-they-should-have-won/

"there is some grey area" 


Frank off football scooper 

[arkansasrazorback]

"there is some grey area" 


Frank off football scooper

I hear the football scooper is Ole Miss alum

[TazorTusk]

Wasn't there something about a second field goal that was bad called good in an Ole Miss game years ago?  I almost hope the refs blew it -- to sort of even old scores. 

[STLHogFan]

Don't yank on the face mask and it's game over. You weren't screwed. You lost the game.

[Biggus Piggus]

It was not a fumble.

[RussVegas Hawg]

A lateral becomes a fumble once it hits the ground.  Fact.  And the rule pertains to 4th down plays.  We were screwed.

Nope!! Correct call was made.

[arkansasrazorback]

SI College Football ‏@si_ncaafb  38s38 seconds ago
Per @FootballScoop, Arkansas's wild 4th-down conversion vs. Ole Miss should not have counted.

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken  22m22 minutes ago
If @FootballScoop is correct the SEC will have some explaining to do along with the B1G tomorrow


Everybody jumping on board now

[dhornjr1]

With the way last few minutes of the first half went, I have no regrets or guilt with this one.  Don't even want to hear whining or theories from OM my friend sanity.  FOM and FSECofficials and Tom Ritter's crew. 

Florida 2009 alone is enough for me to have no regrets or guilt with this one.

[ErieHog]

it becomes a fumble, or the defense would not be able to gain possession. Also, in your scenario, the backwards swing pass would be behind the LOS.

But, I agree with you and the refs, unless the rules specifically state that a LATERAL is a fumble once it hits the ground, then there is no way to have ruled any way other than what they did.

Actually, no, it doesn't become a fumble;  it remains a backwards pass/lateral, both of which are possessable by the defense, and advancable.

Its never, ever a fumble.   Fans just tend to be very lazy in describing the play, and use fumble as a short hand.

[dhornjr1]

SI College Football ‏@si_ncaafb  38s38 seconds ago
Per @FootballScoop, Arkansas's wild 4th-down conversion vs. Ole Miss should not have counted.

Dan Wolken ‏@DanWolken  22m22 minutes ago
If @FootballScoop is correct the SEC will have some explaining to do along with the B1G tomorrow


Everybody jumping on board now

Yep, it's sweet to be on the winning side of an apparent screwjob.

[Atlhogfan1]

Florida 2009 alone is enough for me to have no regrets or guilt with this one.

We were owed this from the football gods if not the ** SEC officials.  Don't want to hear crap.  Hogs won that in regulation if officials had done their job right. 

[hogsanity]

With the way last few minutes of the first half went, I have no regrets or guilt with this one.  Don't even want to hear whining or theories from OM my friend sanity.  FOM and FSECofficials and Tom Ritter's crew. 

Hogs, on the road, had 2 penalties. 1 was delay of game, which is on the team. The other was a PI that gets called 3 dozens times every Sat, defender made contact without looking for the ball.

But no, OM needs look no further than the fact they scored 45 in regulation and ave up just as many. That is what got them beat, not a call/no call, simply getting lit up by Ba and CO is what beat them.