The Biggest Problem With Our FB Program

[JaketheSnake]

The biggest problem with our football program is a coach and AD that want to abandon the only portion of the state that has ever consistently produced D1 players.... that is LR and south Arkansas. The coach and the AD think they can develop 3 star or no star players from out of state to compete in the SEC. It hasn't happened. In-state kids are likely to buyin to the razorback program and they feel they have a personal stake in the outcome of games. These are the kids that can be developed best because they don't have to be convinced to buyin. They have been bought in since birth.

It all comes down to an AD and head coach who don't understand Arkansas, the culture and the people here. It will take a change in the head coach and hopefully the AD to get our program back on track. And only then if someone with Arkansas ties who has grown up in our culture is hired.

Removing games from WMS doesn't equate to abandoning south Arkansas.  It's not 1970 anymore.  We have better roads to Fayetteville and a stadium that brings in more money.

[HiggiePiggy]

Our biggest problem is not recruiting. We have had the talent the last 3 years to have had 9 or 10 win seasons.  Our problem is and has been coaching. You don't go 0-16 when losing at halftime if you are a good coach.  You don't lose many games when you are leading in the second half if you are a good coach.  We have done both with this staff.

Our recruiting is about the same if not a little better than what it has ever been at Arkansas. With a good coach we will win 8 or 9 games next year because we have the talent to win that many games.  With Bielema we will continue to lose games that were questionable because he is not a good coach. 

Recruiting will never be better than Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Texas A&M. We will be on par with ole miss most years and almost always out recruit Mississippi State.  That won't change. 

Arkansas has always had to have a coach that can do more with less.

[WorfHog]

I hear you about the Confederate flags, but the lack of diversity in Fayetteville/NWA is not what's keeping our football program down. It's a lack of leadership.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Ya'll bit on one of Bawb's stoopid OPs.

Bawb is an unhinged leftist and normally only posts his drivel in the politics board where it is well received by people nearly as messed up as him.

While we're at it, might as well say that the TRUE deeps south reason the athletic department wants to move all games from Fayetteville is to keep gangland shenanigans in Little Rock out of the football program by gutting the HS talent and making it harder for minorities of modest means to go see their kids play for the Razorbacks.

See how easy that is? I can make up garbage too.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I stand by my original assertion that the biggest problem we have is recruiting. I did not attribute it to rebel flags. I said it is symbolic.  The biggest problem is recruiting.

1. We don't have a championship-wining tradition
2. We run a clean program
3. Our campus is in a sparsely-populated region with mostly white folks.

Our SEC competition has and will use those things against us.

Point 1 & 2 were not in your original assumption.  I agree with you on those two points and so do many others.  I'm not saying point 3 is totally wrong either.  I am saying that it seems you are attributing too many of our issues to it.  Let's face it, Harrison has had some less than flattering news stories/pseudo documentaries lately and many think that because of that, all of NWA is just a big bunch of racist a holes.  That hasn't been my experience.  Again, I've lived from DC to AK and I have seen racism everywhere.  You're oversimplifying the problem.

[hawgbawb]

The biggest problem with our football program is a coach and AD that want to abandon the only portion of the state that has ever consistently produced D1 players.... that is LR and south Arkansas. The coach and the AD think they can develop 3 star or no star players from out of state to compete in the SEC. It hasn't happened. In-state kids are likely to buyin to the razorback program and they feel they have a personal stake in the outcome of games. These are the kids that can be developed best because they don't have to be convinced to buyin. They have been bought in since birth.

It all comes down to an AD and head coach who don't understand Arkansas, the culture and the people here. It will take a change in the head coach and hopefully the AD to get our program back on track. And only then if someone with Arkansas ties who has grown up in our culture is hired.

Frank Broyles had no Arkansas ties, did he?  Nolan Richardson had no Arkansas ties, did he?

[Qui Gon Jinn]

Frank Broyles had no Arkansas ties, did he?  Nolan Richardson had no Arkansas ties, did he?

See.  I agree with you here.  I don't think we must get someone with AR ties.  Not sure that is even possible right now. 

[hawgbawb]

Point 1 & 2 were not in your original assumption.  I agree with you on those two points and so do many others.  I'm not saying point 3 is totally wrong either.  I am saying that it seems you are attributing too many of our issues to it.  Let's face it, Harrison has had some less than flattering news stories/pseudo documentaries lately and many think that because of that, all of NWA is just a big bunch of racist a holes.  That hasn't been my experience.  Again, I've lived from DC to AK and I have seen racism everywhere.  You're oversimplifying the problem.

The reactionary posters in here over-attributed the OP to pointing the finger at racism. It's a sensitive issue. The key point was and is that our recruiting is consistently in the lower half, if not near the bottom, of SEC recruiting rankings.

[jgphillips3]

Demographics?  Give me a break.  Yes, they can make a difference but it is, and has always been, the coach.  Alabama has these wonderful demographics...right?

So:

1997: 4-7
1998: 7-5
1999: 10-3
2000: 3-8
2001: 7-5
2002: 10-3
2003: 4-9
2004: 6-6
2005: 10-2
2006: 6-7

Pretty pedestrian.  In 2007, they hire Saban.  He goes 7-6 and then has 9 straight double digit winning seasons.  Coach, coach, coach...that's what will make the difference.  A terrible coach will lose even in fertile territory.  A great coach will compete and win in less than optimal settings.

[Medic821]

SIGH.....

[JaketheSnake]

Demographics?  Give me a break.  Yes, they can make a difference but it is, and has always been, the coach.  Alabama has these wonderful demographics...right?

So:

1997: 4-7
1998: 7-5
1999: 10-3
2000: 3-8
2001: 7-5
2002: 10-3
2003: 4-9
2004: 6-6
2005: 10-2
2006: 6-7

Pretty pedestrian.  In 2007, they hire Saban.  He goes 7-6 and then has 9 straight double digit winning seasons.  Coach, coach, coach...that's what will make the difference.  A terrible coach will lose even in fertile territory.  A great coach will compete and win in less than optimal settings.

Saban is an exception.  He would win anywhere he went.  We don't and won't have Saban. 

Bama IS in much more fertile recruiting grounds.  Arkansas needs a great coach and a couple of great in-state classes for the stars to align and get us elite.  Even with BP, 3rd in the west was as good as we could get. 

[jgphillips3]

Saban is an exception.  He would win anywhere he went.  We don't and won't have Saban. 

Bama IS in much more fertile recruiting grounds.  Arkansas needs a great coach and a couple of great in-state classes for the stars to align and get us elite.  Even with BP, 3rd in the west was as good as we could get. 

Yes, he is the Bear Bryant of our times.  However, great coaches will win anywhere and they will dominate in the best places.  But, my point remains, everyone always points to their territory but that doesn't mean squat without a good coach.  Look at LSU between McClendon and Saban.  A ridiculous amount of talent but they were a doormat when we entered the conference.  Again, Coach, coach, coach.

[Shrevepork]

Global warming is the biggest problem with FB.

No! It's the Affordable Football Act.

[JaketheSnake]

Yes, he is the Bear Bryant of our times.  However, great coaches will win anywhere and they will dominate in the best places.  But, my point remains, everyone always points to their territory but that doesn't mean squat without a good coach.  Look at LSU between McClendon and Saban.  A ridiculous amount of talent but they were a doormat when we entered the conference.  Again, Coach, coach, coach.

Good programs can win (not be elite) with subpar coaches.  See LSU and Auburn.  It takes both to be elite.

[porkrindjimmy]

I don't agree with the OP but it is silly for you to make this post.  I've driven through and mistakenly stopped in a couple of places along the old pig trail, and my friend, that's a mistake I will NEVER make again.  Also attempted to buy some property up there and the realtor in so many words told me that wouldn't be smart!  But, how many recruits are going to venture that far off the beaten path, they aren't but you can't say those places don't exist around Fayetteville because I've experienced it first hand.

Lol....this is the funniest lost I have read on here in a great while. You got spooked going down the pig trail. Why am I not surprised?

Man up dude and life will be more enjoyable. I have been up and down the pig trail a thousand times. Never have I been spooked....lol.

PRJ

[Ex-Trumpet]

The bigger issue is that there are hardly any black folks that live within 100 miles of Fayetteville. There are a handful of Ozark towns that are downright hostile towards them. 

This is true, there are some folks in towns across Arkansas that are racist.  And schools like Alabama use this against us.

[JaketheSnake]

This is true, there are some folks in towns across Arkansas that are racist.  And schools like Alabama use this against us.

Alabama has more hate groups and KKK members than Arkansas...

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/08/15/the-kkk-is-still-based-in-22-states-in-the-us-in-2017/23078183/

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10-states-with-the-most-hate-groups/ss-AAq4BGR

[factchecker]

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

You are going to get a ton of hate b/c of this but it's the truth.

The worst part are the fans who follow our recruits then tweet racist crap.  Calling NFL player ungrateful (n words) and have their social media filled with this garbage:



If you drive down around south and central Arkansas you are going to see a ton of burnt out pickup trucks with confederate flags.

[Vantage 8 dude]

This is true, there are some folks in towns across Arkansas that are racist.  And schools like Alabama use this against us.

Come on. And so someone from ALABAMA or GEORGIA is going to use racism as a major recruiting tool against us?

First of all, there aren't that many instances where such schools are recruiting directly against us. Not saying it never happens, just saying that isn't a huge negative factor.

Secondly, those in glass houses should never, ever throw stones. Anyone with half a brain merely need look into the history books to see which states over the past 150 years have had major issues with race. While we've hard our share, in fact far too many, ain't no one in either the "Heart of Dixie" or "The Peach State" that can hang their hat on "fair and equal" treatment of all races, especially blacks. IMO the racist card is a overworked/overused excuse for other issues/shortcomings.

[Ex-Trumpet]

You are going to get a ton of hate b/c of this but it's the truth.

The worst part are the fans who follow our recruits then tweet racist crap.  Calling NFL player ungrateful (n words) and have their social media filled with this garbage:



If you drive down around south and central Arkansas you are going to see a ton of burnt out pickup trucks with confederate flags.

Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are well aware of this and use it to recruit against us.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Georgia is pretty bad also.

A story my mom told me when she and my family were living in Douglas GA.  She was a RN in charge of Maternity in one of their hospitals.  One day my mom gets approached by her "white" supervisor and commented that we don't socialize with the coloreds here, you're their boss.  And then goes on to say, we know how to our.....(sounds like snickers) in line and well behaved.  My mom mentioned that it wasn't a problem where she came from in Arkansas (White County Memorial-Searcy), we were all friends and co-workers.   The Supervisor said, "there ya go sweety, that's AR-Kansas for ya".   We have rules here darling and you best get used to it.      A year later my family moved to New Braunfels, TX.   lol    TRUE STORY

More than likely our mothers have crossed paths.

Mom has been an RN at WCMC, in some form or another, since 1989. When she started it was White County Memorial Hospital before it has become what it is today, White County Medical Center. She spent 7 years as the night supervisor of nursing.

[bjbuatamu]

Seriously?  Fayetteville has a race problem?  What other SEC school has a major airport, one of the largest corporations in the world in it's backyard, named one of the best places in the US to live, etc.  Race is not a reason to say we are weak in recruiting.  A black man would want to play in Alabama or Mississippi?  Seriously?  Recruiting is solved by winning.  Winning cures all issues. 

[Sweet Feet]

Recruiting. We can't consistently compete against the 4 and 5 star athletes that populate many of the rosters of our SEC opponents.

As much as I like Fayetteville, it is not in a fertile recruiting ground. The geographic area is sparsely-populated, and there are few elite, African Americans, and very little cultural attraction for African Americans. Little Rock used to be pretty good, but it's football culture is a shadow of its former self.

Our 1960s heyday was prior to integration. We've struggled since.

If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face.

Im full on aware that NWA doesn't produce athletes and that Arkansas is racist state at times, especially up northwest around harrison. But man what makes you think Alabama and Georgia don't have those same political qualities? Look at Ole Miss. They ARE the prototypical confederate south and they were able to get talented AA there.

All that said, i don't think its the political issue so much as it is a Demographic issue. I think it's the ratio of AA this state compared to the others. Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are all fertile because they have an abundance of AA talent. The most talented and abundant area of AA in Arkansas is Little Rock, but sadly everyone is moving towards Basketball because the school districts suck completely. Pine Bluff still churns a few good players along with the southern Arkansas part.

Also understand it's all about winning. Alabama and UGA are able to get quality players because they are a quality school that wins more often than loses.

[factchecker]

Seriously?  Fayetteville has a race problem?

Not Fayetteville..... the state of Arkansas and more importantly a certain portion of our fan base.

Look how Nolan was treated and he won a national championship.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Yea, she was in the surgical rotation first as a LPN and then became a RN.  She died in 2011 of lung cancer in Texas.  Is your mom still alive?

Sorry to hear about your mom.

Yeah. Mom is still there and working her ER rotation at 63 years old. If your mom was a nurse in WCMC at all (LPN, RN, APN) during the 90s, Mom would have known her while she worked in administration.

My mother also went from LPN to RN (A.S.N.)

[Ex-Trumpet]

Not Fayetteville..... the state of Arkansas and more importantly a certain portion of our fan base.

Look how Nolan was treated and he won a national championship.

I remember that...anyone remember where Nolan ended up moving to?

[jswineberiaskirk]

But everybody's white or latino. The AA population is very small.  Where does an African American student go to have a good time? Tulsa?

Seems to me as if you are suggesting people need to with their own kind to have a good time... segregated if you will. What about this diversity and inclusion you people speak of?

You people stop at nothing to further your agenda. We are all one race. Got that?

[factchecker]

Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are well aware of this and use it to recruit against us.

That plus our horrible treatment of our players (current and former) regardless of race.

Brandon Allen

The tweets people sent to Macon and Barford when they thought they were going pro.  Telling them that they would be working in McDonalds in a couple years.

The crap Drew Morgan got for wearing a shirt.

Fans telling the women's basketball team to go back to Africa.

[factchecker]

I remember that...anyone remember where Nolan ended up moving to?

Stayed in Fayetteville because Fayetteville is not the problem.  It's the smaller more country towns.

[JaketheSnake]

That plus our horrible treatment of our players (current and former) regardless of race.

Brandon Allen

The tweets people sent to Macon and Barford when they thought they were going pro.  Telling them that they would be working in McDonalds in a couple years.

The crap Drew Morgan got for wearing a shirt.

Fans telling the women's basketball team to go back to Africa.

We have our idiots, but every fan base does.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Stayed in Fayetteville because Fayetteville is not the problem.  It's the smaller more country towns.

Man, no wonder LSU, Alabama, UGa, and the MS schools are more successful than us...they don't have any smaller country towns.

[factchecker]

We have our idiots, but every fan base does.

Just because everyone has idiot fans doesn't mean it's ok.

I'd rather those "fans" cheer for somebody else.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Just because everyone has idiot fans doesn't mean it's ok.

I'd rather those "fans" cheer for somebody else.

I've been tongue in cheek with my posts, but I agree with this.

Having stated that, I believe there is no place in the country better than Fayetteville to overcome the racial boundaries that exist everywhere.  It's truly a wonderful place. 

And, using the race card as an excuse is just wrong.

[factchecker]

Man, no wonder LSU, Alabama, UGa, and the MS schools are more successful than us...they don't have any smaller country towns.

LSU has more talent per capita IN STATE.

Alabama has talent plus one of the best coaches of all time.

UGA has Atlanta to overcome their problems.

The Mississippi schools are not more successful than us overall.  They are better as of late but not overall.

With that being said, I'll agree that racists aren't our biggest problem.

Our current problem is coaching but even that isn't our biggest problem.

Our biggest problem is instate talent. High school football in Arkansas is mediocre to downright poor. Which is funny considering how much our fans hate "mediocrity".

[jkstock04]

Just because everyone has idiot fans doesn't mean it's ok.

I'd rather those "fans" cheer for somebody else.

So you subscribe to Hawgbawbs theory that the biggest problem with our football program is that Arkansas has racist fans?

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Think she left in 1993 for Georgia, my step-dad worked as driver for Walmart and then to New Braunfels, TX.  They didn't care much for Jaw-ja.  lol     Carolyn Whitener LPN Surgical , at White County Memorial.  Maybe your mom knew her.

I'll send her a message.

White County was much smaller back then than it is now. It's pretty much unrecognizable now. They have aerial photos every two years from the 60s in frames in one of the hallways. Insane how much it's changed.

[factchecker]

So you subscribe to Hawgbawbs theory that the biggest problem with our football program is that Arkansas has racist fans?

Nope.

Current problem is coaching.

Biggest problem is instate talent.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Nope.

Current problem is coaching.

Biggest problem is instate talent.

That is exactly what it is.

'98, 06, 10 and 11 seasons prove you are more right than not.

12 season proves what happens when you remove one of the two.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Nope.

Current problem is coaching.

Biggest problem is instate talent.

Fortunately, schools are not limited to recruit only in-state talent!

[LZH]

In terms of state flags, care to guess this one?

I got this.....Florida. How many players do you think come out of Florida that aren't white boys? This whole point is ridiculous.

[factchecker]

Fortunately, schools are not limited to recruit only in-state talent!

Fortunately, fans who demand excellence out of the Razorbacks can also demand excellence out of their local schools. 

No reason for our high school programs to be as horrible as they are.

[factchecker]

Should fans be tweeting our players to shut up and play?

https://twitter.com/BijhonJ/status/919670081134702593

[jswineberiaskirk]

Stayed in Fayetteville because Fayetteville is not the problem.  It's the smaller more country towns.

Is that so? I have been in damn near every state in the Union and California was by far the most racist state I've ever been in. There are black folks living in towns in N. Central Arkansas where I live that I never expected to see any in. Seen them out trick or treating with their neighbors white kids. everyone was having a great time.

[Ex-Trumpet]

Fortunately, fans who demand excellence out of the Razorbacks can also demand excellence out of their local schools. 

No reason for our high school programs to be as horrible as they are.

We agree on this...I think the problems also extend to the political environment--of which I have no cure!!

Here in Texas the biggest problem seems to be the lack of defensive fundamentals.  Everybody is running some sort of spread offense trying to outscore the others.

I'm gonna blame it on Jack Pardee.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

The reactionary posters in here over-attributed the OP to pointing the finger at racism. It's a sensitive issue. The key point was and is that our recruiting is consistently in the lower half, if not near the bottom, of SEC recruiting rankings.

"If you look at Hogville, where we have posters with rebel flags, a State flag with imagery that mimicks one, and avatars of confederate soldiers, you get the picture of the challenge we face."  This is a direct quote from your OP.  I don't see how its reactionary to claim you were blaming racism. 

[JaketheSnake]

Just because everyone has idiot fans doesn't mean it's ok.

I'd rather those "fans" cheer for somebody else.

My point was you are saying other programs use that stuff as negative recruiting against us.  Every program has crap like that going on, so I find it hard to believe that racism is used against Ark by schools with statistically more racism. 

Everyone would rather not have the "idiot" part of
The fan base.

[JaketheSnake]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seccountry.com/alabama/report-man-shot-tuscaloosa-strip-following-alabamas-win-arkansas/amp

People get shot after Bama victories.  We should use that as a recruiting tool.  If you go there and win, people die.  Come
Here and win, if you value human lives.

[Qui Gon Jinn]

You are going to get a ton of hate b/c of this but it's the truth.

The worst part are the fans who follow our recruits then tweet racist crap.  Calling NFL player ungrateful (n words) and have their social media filled with this garbage:



If you drive down around south and central Arkansas you are going to see a ton of burnt out pickup trucks with confederate flags.

Interesting.  Support our Troops is garbage?  The constitution is garbage?  After 29 years in the military and coming from a small AR town and not having a racist bone in my body, I find this post ridiculously offensive.

[JaketheSnake]

Interesting.  Support our Troops is garbage?  The constitution is garbage?  After 29 years in the military and coming from a small AR town and not having a racist bone in my body, I find this post ridiculously offensive.

I don't agree with it either, but it's not personal...

[Qui Gon Jinn]

I don't agree with it either, but it's not personal...

Your entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.  Its personal.