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Texas recruiting

Started by Caribhog, June 26, 2017, 06:47:02 am

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Caribhog

We want to beat Alabama, LSU...we have to win Texas recruiting. It's been the key to great AR football success since Broyles was successful.  We can't win long term getting castoff players from AL, GA, LA. We have got to figure out a way to get the few great players from TX every year. All the great AR teams were built on that concept: Montgomery, Dicus, Johnson, Brabham, et al..  We get our share of great players from TX, we start beating AL, LSU, AUB, GA

ChitownHawg

Quote from: Caribhog on June 26, 2017, 06:47:02 am
We want to beat Alabama, LSU...we have to win Texas recruiting. It's been the key to great AR football success since Broyles was successful.  We can't win long term getting castoff players from AL, GA, LA. We have got to figure out a way to get the few great players from TX every year. All the great AR teams were built on that concept: Montgomery, Dicus, Johnson, Brabham, et al..  We get our share of great players from TX, we start beating AL, LSU, AUB, GA

While Texas is important to our recruiting, our best records tend to coincide with great In-state recruiting years.
PonderinHog: "My mother gave me a framed cross-stitch picture that reads, "You can tell a Hog fan, but you can't tell him much.  Go Hogs!" It's a blessing and a curse."  :razorback:

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ricepig


davehog

When Arkansas was still in the SWC this was indeed the case.  Now that we are in the SEC, Louisiana is the more important recruiting territory. 

At best, we are #3 in the state of Texas behind UT and A&M.  You could argue that in reality we are in the low single digits (7,8,9).  But in LA, we can be a solid #2 behind LSU and we can sell the line of, "beat your home state school" to recruits.  Plus, LA produces a lot of SEC/NFL talent year after year. 

Al Boarland

June 26, 2017, 07:56:16 am #4 Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 08:31:14 am by Al Boarland
I really think the most realistic and effective strategy is to hit JUCO's hard every cycle.  That will be our best chance to compete.  We will just can't miss on those guys.  I'm not convinced on the bringing in 3-stars and develop them to 5 stars philosophy.  Not when other programs bring in loads of 4 stars and some 5 stars that are also developed.  It's not like we have the market cornered on development.

Piggfoot

Quote from: davehog on June 26, 2017, 07:41:43 am
When Arkansas was still in the SWC this was indeed the case.  Now that we are in the SEC, Louisiana is the more important recruiting territory. 

At best, we are #3 in the state of Texas behind UT and A&M.  You could argue that in reality we are in the low single digits (7,8,9).  But in LA, we can be a solid #2 behind LSU and we can sell the line of, "beat your home state school" to recruits.  Plus, LA produces a lot of SEC/NFL talent year after year. 
you're forgetting Oklahoma and Oklahoma state
Hog fan since 1960. So thankful for Sam Pittman.

RazorPiggie

Quote from: davehog on June 26, 2017, 07:41:43 am
When Arkansas was still in the SWC this was indeed the case.  Now that we are in the SEC, Louisiana is the more important recruiting territory. 

At best, we are #3 in the state of Texas behind UT and A&M.  You could argue that in reality we are in the low single digits (7,8,9).  But in LA, we can be a solid #2 behind LSU and we can sell the line of, "beat your home state school" to recruits.  Plus, LA produces a lot of SEC/NFL talent year after year.

This. But like the poster above me said we are probably #5 or #6 in Texas now. I'd rather focus more on LA and MS.

go hogues

Quote from: davehog on June 26, 2017, 07:41:43 am
When Arkansas was still in the SWC this was indeed the case.  Now that we are in the SEC, Louisiana is the more important recruiting territory. 

At best, we are #3 in the state of Texas behind UT and A&M.  You could argue that in reality we are in the low single digits (7,8,9).  But in LA, we can be a solid #2 behind LSU and we can sell the line of, "beat your home state school" to recruits.  Plus, LA produces a lot of SEC/NFL talent year after year. 
We're down the totem pole in LA as well. I'd argue A&M, Ole Miss, MSU and Alabama all recruit LA at a higher level than us.

I'd agree with you that pound for pound, LA kids seem to translate better to SEC football than Texas kids.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

PorkRinds

Quote from: go hogues on June 26, 2017, 08:23:56 am
We're down the totem pole in LA as well. I'd argue A&M, Ole Miss, MSU and Alabama all recruit LA at a higher level than us.

I'd agree with you that pound for pound, LA kids seem to translate better to SEC football than Texas kids.

On what do you base your opinion that all those schools are bette than us in LA?

tophawg19

i think we are about to make a strong push up into the midwest . especially Ohio, Illinois,Indiana, Pennsylvania etc A lot of great linemen come from that area as well as linebackers and they are more used to our system. The spread isn't as common yet up there. I still think a lot of our speed players will come from the south though
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

Wildhog

Quote from: go hogues on June 26, 2017, 08:23:56 am
We're down the totem pole in LA as well. I'd argue A&M, Ole Miss, MSU and Alabama all recruit LA at a higher level than us.

I'd agree with you that pound for pound, LA kids seem to translate better to SEC football than Texas kids.

We're definitely above MSU in the LA pecking order.

We need to keep hitting LA hard.  Michael Smith is doing a great job.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

King Kong

June 26, 2017, 08:45:44 am #11 Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:12:34 am by King Kong
Quote from: davehog on June 26, 2017, 07:41:43 am
At best, we are #3 in the state of Texas behind UT and A&M.  You could argue that in reality we are in the low single digits (7,8,9).  But in LA, we can be a solid #2 behind LSU and we can sell the line of, "beat your home state school" to recruits.  Plus, LA produces a lot of SEC/NFL talent year after year.

Nobody can argue we are third. We haven't been in the top 4 in Texas since maybe early 2000's. Baylor, Ok St, TCU, A&M, Stanford and Houston have all lapped us in Texas recruiting over the past 15 years. Not to mention Bama and LSU are choosing who they want from there as well.

Wildhog

Quote from: King Kong on June 26, 2017, 08:45:44 am
Nobody can argue we are third. We haven't been in the top 4 in Texas since maybe early 2000's. Baylor, Ok St, TCU, A&M, Stanford and Houston have all lapped us in Texas recruiting over the passed 15 years. Not to mention Bama and LSU are choosing who they want from there as well.

Ole Miss has been hitting Texas harder than ever, too. 

We're 6th or 7th in Texas, at best.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

 

Al Boarland

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 08:47:36 am
Ole Miss has been hitting Texas harder than ever, too. 

We're 6th or 7th in Texas, at best.

It's a tough situation. We have a branding challenge. What can we sell that gives us an advantage? When you sit back and think about what we have as a differentiator you come can begin to understand the challenge our staff has on the recruiting trail.

Wildhog

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 08:53:07 am
It's a tough situation. We have a branding challenge. What can we sell that gives us an advantage? When you sit back and think about what we have as a differentiator you come can begin to understand the challenge our staff has on the recruiting trail.

Gotta win more games. 
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Al Boarland

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 08:54:12 am
Gotta win more games.

Gotta have the players to win the games.

Wildhog

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 08:55:15 am
Gotta have the players to win the games.

We've had the players to win more games.  We've just underachieved every year.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Al Boarland

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 08:55:57 am
We've had the players to win more games.  We've just underachieved every year.
I disagree. We have not and do not have the quality depth needed to win the games we want to win. Not consistently anyway.

Wildhog

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 09:01:34 am
I disagree. We have not and do not have the quality depth needed to win the games we want to win. Not consistently anyway.

Win totals could (should) have been higher each of the last few years.  We don't have the talent to compete for a conference title, but we have the talent to win more than we have.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Al Boarland

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 09:05:09 am
Win totals could (should) have been higher each of the last few years.  We don't have the talent to compete for a conference title, but we have the talent to win more than we have.

You can't shoulda, woulda, coulda a record. There are games we won that shoulda, coulda, woulda been losses. The record is what it is.

PonderinHog

We'll have to continue to cast a wide net.  That's just the way it is.

Wildhog

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 09:07:28 am
You can't shoulda, woulda, coulda a record. There are games we won that shoulda, coulda, woulda been losses. The record is what it is.

Actually I can.  But you're right.  In the end, the record is what it is.

We'll agree to disagree on the rest.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hawgon

June 26, 2017, 09:52:44 am #22 Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:48:05 pm by hawgon
From Dallas east and from the Red River to Lufkin we could, if we would put the emphasis out there, dominate.  Sure, we would probably be second to A&M and Texas, but we could dominate that area above all others.  There are lots of athletes there and Arkansas is closer than many of the Texas schools like Tech.  Historically we should be a better option than TCU and Baylor.  And there is no reason for us to take a back seat to other out of state programs. 

We just need to prioritize and hit it hard.  There are also more Arkansas fans in that area than any other state school other than A&M and Texas, so the culture is not overly foreign or hostile either.

King Kong


 

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: King Kong on June 26, 2017, 10:13:20 am
Petrino didn't
Uhh yes he did. Knile Davis, Joe Adams, Jerius Wright, Ryan Mallet, Chris Gragg. He got lucky and walked in when all the right pieces were together
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

hogsanity

Quote from: ChitownHawg on June 26, 2017, 06:51:31 am

our best records tend to coincide with great In-state recruiting years.


Yep, but few want to face that.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

J-Five

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 09:01:34 am
I disagree. We have not and do not have the quality depth needed to win the games we want to win. Not consistently anyway.

We had the players to win 9 games this season, but choked away the last 2 games after having big halftime leads...We have the players to win games, I think a lot of it has to do with coaching.  Just my take.
"If the person you're criticizing is doing it better than you are, close your mouth"

Wildhog

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on June 26, 2017, 10:19:21 am
Uhh yes he did. Knile Davis, Joe Adams, Jerius Wright, Ryan Mallet, Chris Gragg. He got lucky and walked in when all the right pieces were together

Uh, we've had quite a few studs during Bielema's tenure, too.  He just hasn't won much with them.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

go hogues

Quote from: PorkRinds on June 26, 2017, 08:26:10 am
On what do you base your opinion that all those schools are bette than us in LA?
Any recruiting site.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

BigE_23

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on June 26, 2017, 10:19:21 am
Uhh yes he did. Knile Davis, Joe Adams, Jerius Wright, Ryan Mallet, Chris Gragg. He got lucky and walked in when all the right pieces were together
Yes...pure luck. He should get no credit whatsoever for assembling those right pieces. They just fell in his lap.

Wildhog

Quote from: BigE_23 on June 26, 2017, 10:48:26 am
Yes...pure luck. He should get no credit whatsoever for assembling those right pieces. They just fell in his lap.

Knile was a great recruiting get.  He was big time.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Al Boarland

Quote from: J-Five on June 26, 2017, 10:28:58 am
We had the players to win 9 games this season, but choked away the last 2 games after having big halftime leads...We have the players to win games, I think a lot of it has to do with coaching.  Just my take.

Would you argue there was a game we won we should have lost?

PonderinHog

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 10:49:10 am
Knile was a great recruiting get.  He was big time.
And a huge medical risk, right?

Wildhog

Quote from: go hogues on June 26, 2017, 10:48:15 am
Any recruiting site.

MSU signees from LA since 2013

'18 (commits): 0
'17: 2
'16: 2
'15: 1
'14: 0
'13: 2

Total: 7

Arkansas

'18 (commits): 1
'17: 3
'16: 4
'15: 1
'14: 4
'13: 0

Total: 13


Since CBB has been here, we've definitely had a bigger footprint in LA than MSU.


Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Wildhog

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 26, 2017, 10:59:42 am
And a huge medical risk, right?

He was coming off an injury, yeah.  He was still considered one of the top backs in the country (and for good reason.)
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

PonderinHog

Quote from: Wildhog on June 26, 2017, 11:02:48 am
He was coming off an injury, yeah.  He was still considered one of the top backs in the country (and for good reason.)
No doubt he was a stud.

Wildhog

Of course, Alex Collins may be the biggest recruiting coup that I can remember.  Kirkland, too.  To go in and get two big-time Florida players (with the big time Florida offers), was unheard of at the time.

Then we beat out Ole Miss, Ohio St and many others for Skipper.

We had a great in-state class that year, too.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

RME

Quote from: go hogues on June 26, 2017, 08:23:56 am
We're down the totem pole in LA as well. I'd argue A&M, Ole Miss, MSU and Alabama all recruit LA at a higher level than us.

I'd agree with you that pound for pound, LA kids seem to translate better to SEC football than Texas kids.

2014 - 2017  top 50 recruits in Louisiana according to 247Sports:

A&M: 2, 3, 2, 2 = 9
Ole Miss: 1, 2, 0, 1 = 4
MSU: 0, 0, 2, 2 = 4
Alabama: 4, 1, 2, 4 = 11
Arkansas: 4, 0, 4, 3 = 11

Believe it or not, I noticed TCU had a pretty high number and would probably be first in those numbers ^.


*Wildhog beat me to it while I was typing this out.

Pigsknuckles

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on June 26, 2017, 10:19:21 am
Uhh yes he did. Knile Davis, Joe Adams, Jerius Wright, Ryan Mallet, Chris Gragg. He got lucky and walked in when all the right pieces were together

You threw "Jerius" in there on purpose, Wright?  :)
"the ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"

Wildhog

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on June 26, 2017, 11:12:37 am
2014 - 2017  top 50 recruits in Louisiana according to 247Sports:

A&M: 2, 3, 2, 2 = 9
Ole Miss: 1, 2, 0, 1 = 4
MSU: 0, 0, 2, 2 = 4
Alabama: 4, 1, 2, 4 = 11
Arkansas: 4, 0, 4, 3 = 11

Believe it or not, I noticed TCU had a pretty high number and would probably be first in those numbers ^.


*Wildhog beat me to it while I was typing this out.

You had more teams.  I just took exception to the MSU inclusion.  :)
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Al Boarland on June 26, 2017, 10:57:36 am
Would you argue there was a game we won we should have lost?

TCU. I mean the odds of blocking/having tcu miss a chip shot at the end were pretty slim.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on June 26, 2017, 11:21:38 am
TCU. I mean the odds of blocking/having tcu miss a chip shot at the end were pretty slim.

Agreed.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

PonderinHog

Weren't we fortunate to beat LA Tech?

Wildhog

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 26, 2017, 11:39:20 am
Weren't we fortunate to beat LA Tech?

I wouldn't say that's a game we should have lost.  We certainly could have, though.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

robs4516

Quote from: Pigsknuckles on June 26, 2017, 11:13:45 am
You threw "Jerius" in there on purpose, Wright?  :)

At least he left out "Kniles".
First of all, I didn't start it...
Second of all, they were all still alive when I walked out

King Kong

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on June 26, 2017, 10:19:21 am
Uhh yes he did. Knile Davis, Joe Adams, Jerius Wright, Ryan Mallet, Chris Gragg. He got lucky and walked in when all the right pieces were together

And none of them were higher than a 3rd round draft pick.

hogsanity

Quote from: King Kong on June 26, 2017, 11:50:06 am
And none of them were higher than a 3rd round draft pick.

alot of good even great college players do not translate to the nfl for a variety of reasons. Charlie Ward, Eric Crouch, Jason White all won the Heisman. 2 were not even drafted and Crouch was drafted but never played in a NFL game.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Arkansas Fan

We can still recruit Texas, but hitting Louisiana and Florida hard is what will get us over the hump.

hogsanity

Quote from: Arkansas Fan on June 26, 2017, 12:09:44 pm
We can still recruit Texas, but hitting Louisiana and Florida hard is what will get us over the hump.

no it won't. The next time Ar HS football produces a abnormally large crop of legit sec players, and the Hogs sign most of them, is what will bring the next season or 2 of 10 win type teams.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on June 26, 2017, 12:24:25 pm
no it won't. The next time Ar HS football produces a abnormally large crop of legit sec players, and the Hogs sign most of them, is what will bring the next season or 2 of 10 win type teams.

2019 looks to be a great in-state class. 

Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977