What is missing from Razorback athletics?

[lutherheggs]

A brief, general observation that is based on watching Razorback football and basketball since the mid '70's and being a U of A grad.

In the past 40+ years, there has never been such a high level of hopelessness regarding Arkansas Razorback football and basketball as there is currently. So that is the observation...hope, or optimism, seems to missing from a good percentage of the fanbase, or what is left of it. I'm not sure the fanbase is what it has always been. The past 20 years have not been good to Razorback football or basketball and the children coming of age in that time know both sports at the U of A as being mediocre at best. And they have grown up on tv, video/pc games, electronic social media, and smart phones - athletics not as much a part of their lives as it was for those of us who grew up in the '60's and '70's.

I know this will get some disagreement but I see this lack of care, hope and optimism among my friends and family who have always followed the Razorbacks. Many I know think the production of the last 20 years is what the programs will see for the foreseeable future, i.e., the rest of their lives. Thus, they are not that interested in attending games or buying season tickets anymore. Certainly not interested in making large contributions to the RF and buying season tickets on top of that.

[Razorbackers]

A big chunk of it is that people on the internet are stupid and have the shortest memories imaginable. Like goldfish or something.

2 bad losses left a bad taste in people's mouths in football. And the basketball team is not very good, either.

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense.

The basketball team is still on the bubble, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's time for Mike to go. But if he does sneak into the tournament, he's certainly not going anywhere.

Mostly, there is just a lot of hyperbolism and puffery about "when did this become acceptable" and "dae jeff long sux" and "worst shape the athletic department has ever been in". It's all insane. But I think a vast majority of it is located on the internet.

[Turminator]

What's missing?....  winning

[LZH]

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense. 

Funny how I never see someone mention this while also mentioning that we were just as close to being 3-9.

[Wildhog]

Funny how I never see someone mention this while also mentioning that we were just as close to being 3-9.

Funny how it works out that way, isn't it? 

[Razorbackers]

Yeah well there is a 50/50 chance that you win or lose every game tbh.

If you want to look at OT wins and say "oh man we could have lost those", be my guest.

I'll look at close losses and say "oh man we could have won those."

I mean, by and large, i'm a negative guy, but you sad sacks of potatoes are killing me.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Two observations:
I agree that the level of success is less than most have hoped for.  That is a byproduct of joining the Southeastern Conference.  Historically, it was a conference Texas and another conference opponent may be of high caliber.  Now it's a Weetern Division of the SEC with four and sometimes five teams at that high level.  Week to week is much more difficult than it once was.

I think that the "lack of hope" is substantially less than what many people perceive.  Part of the generation you refer to in your post has rubbed off on many of the older generation as well.  Social media has made a narcissistic society that will voice opinions without any factual evidence or fear of ramifications.  It's very easy to speak out behind the security of a keyboard.  This applies not just to Arkansas sport, but to all social media and American society.  But what do I know, I'm just sitting here behind a keyboard with nothing but my opinion as supporting evidence.

[Wildhog]

Yeah well there is a 50/50 chance that you win or lose every game tbh.

If you want to look at OT wins and say "oh man we could have lost those", be my guest.

I'll look at close losses and say "oh man we could have won those."

I mean, by and large, i'm a negative guy, but you sad sacks of potatoes are killing me.

I'm a pretty happy guy, in general.  Life is good, man.  I have a good job, a wonderful wife, and a beautiful baby girl.

I'm just not very happy with our football and basketball programs right now.

[LZH]

Funny how it works out that way, isn't it? 

The sunshine boys are out in droves today. Good opportunity for guys like us to have some fun lol.

[ricepig]

Funny how I never see someone mention this while also mentioning that we were just as close to being 3-9.

So, let me get this straight, 7+2=9, but 7-2=3?? Two losses don't get you to 3 wins, from 7. I assume you mean we could have lost 4 games we played, that we won? Anyway you stack it, it isn't just as close.

[Wildhog]

So, let me get this straight, 7+2=9, but 7-2=3?? Two losses don't get you to 3 wins, from 7. I assume you mean we could have lost 4 games we played, that we won? Anyway you stack it, it isn't just as close.

Damn math.

[Razorbackers]

So, let me get this straight, 7+2=9, but 7-2=3?? Two losses don't get you to 3 wins, from 7. I assume you mean we could have lost 4 games we played, that we won? Anyway you stack it, it isn't just as close.

It is if you're entire goal is to be negative. lol

[ricepig]

Damn math.

Well, I'm old enough to remember the old way to do math.

[Wildhog]

Well, I'm old enough to remember the old way to do math.

Common Core supports the darksiders.

[Razorbackers]

Common Core supports the darksiders.

[LZH]

Yeah well there is a 50/50 chance that you win or lose every game tbh.

If you want to look at OT wins and say "oh man we could have lost those", be my guest.

I'll look at close losses and say "oh man we could have won those."

I mean, by and large, i'm a negative guy, but you sad sacks of potatoes are killing me.

Oh I'm not a sad sack, just adding a little balance and maybe even a little levity, as it were.

Actually, the fact that our football and basketball teams are average doesn't really even get under my skin as much as those people willing to be OK with it, and that includes our AD.

[lutherheggs]

A big chunk of it is that people on the internet are stupid and have the shortest memories imaginable. Like goldfish or something.

2 bad losses left a bad taste in people's mouths in football. And the basketball team is not very good, either.

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense.

The basketball team is still on the bubble, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's time for Mike to go. But if he does sneak into the tournament, he's certainly not going anywhere.

Mostly, there is just a lot of hyperbolism and puffery about "when did this become acceptable" and "dae jeff long sux" and "worst shape the athletic department has ever been in". It's all insane. But I think a vast majority of it is located on the internet.

I agree and I disagree. The outrage set in specifically when the 3, not 2, bad losses in football occurred: Auburn, Missouri and the bowl game. But that is not enough to explain it by itself. What happens then is it gives a fan a reason to take a look back at what has happened over a longer period. That fan then realizes the team has gone to only low level bowls and never won more than 7 games in regular season under the current head coach and the team has been embarrassed many times on the field - worst losing streak ever, worst conference defeat ever, constantly snatching defeat from jaws of victory, etc. The fan further realizes that the fired coach was the best thing that had happened to Arkansas football since Lou Holtz (if they even know who Holtz is since that was 35 years ago) and wonders how that happened to Arkansas and that we must be snake bit. So it is not as knee jerk a fan reaction as you make it out to be.

You soften what has happened by referring to what could be with phrases like, "sneak into..." and "came closer than people realize..."
Reality is that those things did not and will not occur. Hogs are not going to the NCAAT barring a literal miracle turnabout. "Coming close" is not getting there. Going to a bowl is not that satisfying for many fans if it is the Liberty and Texas bowls and similar, especially if you do not win it.

As for the basketball team, I do not see how anyone could, with a straight face, given the attendance levels and results, say the basketball program has been anything less than a total dumpster fire since 2001 relative to the period from '75 to '01.

[KennyForAD]

A big chunk of it is that people on the internet are stupid and have the shortest memories imaginable. Like goldfish or something.

2 bad losses left a bad taste in people's mouths in football. And the basketball team is not very good, either.

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense.

The basketball team is still on the bubble, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's time for Mike to go. But if he does sneak into the tournament, he's certainly not going anywhere.

Mostly, there is just a lot of hyperbolism and puffery about "when did this become acceptable" and "dae jeff long sux" and "worst shape the athletic department has ever been in". It's all insane. But I think a vast majority of it is located on the internet.

WTH?  The OP pointed out that the Hogs were great for a long time, then fell off the map 30 or 40 years ago and have NEVER gotten back on the map in B-ball or football except for one year under Petrino.

... and you think the problem is the INTERNET, and SHORT MEMORIES?

[LZH]

So, let me get this straight, 7+2=9, but 7-2=3?? Two losses don't get you to 3 wins, from 7. I assume you mean we could have lost 4 games we played, that we won? Anyway you stack it, it isn't just as close.

Well, technically, it would have taken 3 scores by the other teams to lose those three games, but since we lost to VT by 11 points it would have taken 3 scores to win that and the Mizzou games. So actually 3 = 3.....new math.

[Razorbackers]

I agree and I disagree. The outrage set in specifically when the 3, not 2, bad losses in football occurred: Auburn, Missouri and the bowl game. But that is not enough to explain it by itself. What happens then is it gives a fan a reason to take a look back at what has happened over a longer period. That fan then realizes the team has gone to only low level bowls and never won more than 7 games in regular season under the current head coach and the team has been embarrassed many times on the field - worst losing streak ever, worst conference defeat ever, constantly snatching defeat from jaws of victory, etc. The fan further realizes that the fired coach was the best thing that had happened to Arkansas football since Lou Holtz (if they even know who Holtz is since that was 35 years ago) and wonders how that happened to Arkansas and that we must be snake bit. So it is not as knee jerk a fan reaction as you make it out to be.

You soften what has happened by referring to what could be with phrases like, "sneak into..." and "came closer than people realize..."
Reality is that those things did not and will not occur. Hogs are not going to the NCAAT barring a literal miracle turnabout. "Coming close" is not getting there. Going to a bowl is not that satisfying for many fans if it is the Liberty and Texas bowls and similar, especially if you do not win it.

As for the basketball team, I do not see how anyone could, with a straight face, given the attendance levels and results, say the basketball program has been anything less than a total dumpster fire since 2001 relative to the period from '75 to '01.

Nah. Petrino had to go. Is Arkansas snake bit? Sure I guess. I mean, historically we're a good program, but since joining the SEC we've been average more often than not.

"closer than people realize" was about the football team.

"longest losing streak" - lol ok. Are we really going to judge that first year after an interim HC and mass transfers/KOTs? I don't think that's fair at all.

If you're feeling like Arkansas football has been bad or disappointing over a long period of time, it's probably because it has. The "best thing to ever happen to Arkansas football since Lou Holtz" couldn't even win his division, and it's more competitive now than it was when he was here.

No one is happy with the way we lost those 3 games. But good lord. You'd think we were a dumpster fire over here.

[factchecker]

Well, technically, it would have taken 3 scores by the other teams to lose those three games, but since we lost to VT by 11 points it would have taken 3 scores to win that and the Mizzou games. So actually 3 = 3.....new math.

[lutherheggs]

Nah. Petrino had to go. Is Arkansas snake bit? Sure I guess. I mean, historically we're a good program, but since joining the SEC we've been average more often than not.

"closer than people realize" was about the football team.

"longest losing streak" - lol ok. Are we really going to judge that first year after an interim HC and mass transfers/KOTs? I don't think that's fair at all.

If you're feeling like Arkansas football has been bad or disappointing over a long period of time, it's probably because it has. The "best thing to ever happen to Arkansas football since Lou Holtz" couldn't even win his division, and it's more competitive now than it was when he was here.

No one is happy with the way we lost those 3 games. But good lord. You'd think we were a dumpster fire over here.

You are good with excuses and "what almost was" kind of stmts. Great if you are a motivational speaker but not so great if you are getting paid to produce results.

[Wildhog]

Hopefully Episode 8 is good.

[Razorbackers]

WTH?  The OP pointed out that the Hogs were great for a long time, then fell off the map 30 or 40 years ago and have NEVER gotten back on the map in B-ball or football except for one year under Petrino.

... and you think the problem is the INTERNET, and SHORT MEMORIES?

That's not at all what he said, nor what I said.

[LZH]

Damn straight!

[lutherheggs]

That's not at all what he said, nor what I said.

I think it was basically what I said and what you said.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Regarding the FB program for the past 40 years? 

Well, I'd say it all started when CFB became fully integrated.  I guess that occurred by the early to mid 70's...about 40 years ago.  While a fantastic achievement for humanity, it was not kind to our program.  I think it all changed for us after that, and going to the SEC magnified it.  I'm commonly a broken record around here, but I suspect it's no coincidence the JFB jump the coaching ship in the mid 70's.  I think he knew what was coming.  Go back and look at the team photo of the '64 NC team, and tell me what you see.  Or to put a finer point on it, what you don't see.

Also, I'd guess that we've run a clean program too.  Relatively speaking.

[Razorbackers]

You are good with excuses and "what almost was" kind of stmts. Great if you are a motivational speaker but not so great if you are getting paid to produce results.

Or, I'm treating 7-6 with some close losses like something positive to build off of.

And others are treating 7-6 with close losses as a reason to commit suicide.

[Razorbackers]

That's not at all what he said, nor what I said.

But what you said is not what he said. I said what I said, but what you said I said is not what I said.

[KennyForAD]

The truth is that once you fall from greatness, its really hard to get it back.  And the sad truth is that like him or not, Frank Broyles totally destroyed our top five basketball program and ensured that our football program was mediocre at best.  Since we got out from under Frank, we've been trying, but its just really hard.

[redleg]

W's

[KennyForAD]

A big chunk of it is that people on the internet are stupid and have the shortest memories imaginable. Like goldfish or something.

2 bad losses left a bad taste in people's mouths in football. And the basketball team is not very good, either.

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense.

The basketball team is still on the bubble, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's time for Mike to go. But if he does sneak into the tournament, he's certainly not going anywhere.

Mostly, there is just a lot of hyperbolism and puffery about "when did this become acceptable" and "dae jeff long sux" and "worst shape the athletic department has ever been in". It's all insane. But I think a vast majority of it is located on the internet.

Yes.  That is what you said.  He was focusing more on the apathy that exists because we've not been as good as we once were, etc.  Maybe I didn't directly quote him, but I DID directly quote YOU, and I captured the essence of his post.  Your claim that its not what he said and not what you said is as off the mark as your blaming things on the internet.

[lutherheggs]

Or, I'm treating 7-6 with some close losses like something positive to build off of.

And others are treating 7-6 with close losses as a reason to commit suicide.

We know what you said. You do not need to continue repeating yourself. I said you are softening the issue and you are by your optimistic statement I am quoting here. And no one is committing suicide over the football program's results. Why use hyperbole regarding any statement that is not as optimistic as you feel it should be? The stadium is still relatively full for every game. Ticket prices are still rising. They are doing a $200 million addition to the football stadium. So no, no one is going insane here. But fact is, the program is nothing like it was in the '60's, '70's or '80's. The winning is not even close to the same level and not nearly as consistent.

[Razorbackers]

W's

[Razorbackers]

Yes.  That is what you said.  He was focusing more on the apathy that exists because we've not been as good as we once were, etc.  Maybe I didn't directly quote him, but I captured the essence, and your claim that its not what he said and not what you said is as off the mark as your blaming things on the internet.

That's not blaming the internet. That's saying that the sky is falling attitude is mostly located on the internet. By people. Online. AOL.

[code red]

What's missing?....  winning

This we are not relevant in the SEC....period.

[lutherheggs]

The truth is that once you fall from greatness, its really hard to get it back.  And the sad truth is that like him or not, Frank Broyles totally destroyed our top five basketball program and ensured that our football program was mediocre at best.  Since we got out from under Frank, we've been trying, but its just really hard.

This is entirely another issue. JFB was a great AD in his prime. Due to his commitment to the U of A and his almost legendary status, the Chancellors and the BOT let him remain in the AD's office at least 10 years too long. No one, I mean NO ONE, can do a job like the AD at a major university adequately (not to mention doing it very well) who is an octogenarian. He was in his mid 80's before he was pushed out.

[code red]

Or, I'm treating 7-6 with some close losses like something positive to build off of.

And others are treating 7-6 with close losses as a reason to commit suicide.

Close losses???  Ok.  Where and who? Close wins?  Yes.  Close losses no.

[ChitownHawg]

A big chunk of it is that people on the internet are stupid and have the shortest memories imaginable. Like goldfish or something.

2 bad losses left a bad taste in people's mouths in football. And the basketball team is not very good, either.

Of course, we went to a bowl game in football, finished with a winning record, and came closer than people realize to a 9 win season despite there being so many new faces on offense.

The basketball team is still on the bubble, but for a lot of people (myself included) it's time for Mike to go. But if he does sneak into the tournament, he's certainly not going anywhere.

Mostly, there is just a lot of hyperbolism and puffery about "when did this become acceptable" and "dae jeff long sux" and "worst shape the athletic department has ever been in". It's all insane. But I think a vast majority of it is located on the internet.

I second this post. Only people who wrap their identity in a sports team would feel hopeless.

I didn't like the last two losses, but life is still pretty good for me. My life's hope isn't tied to the Razorbacks winning. I'm still proud my name is on Senior Walk and of the education the school provided me.

Time for people to place their identity with something else.

[Razorbackers]

We know what you said. You do not need to continue repeating yourself. I said you are softening the issue and you are by your optimistic statement I am quoting here. And no one is committing suicide over the football program's results. Why use hyperbole regarding any statement that is not as optimistic as you feel it should be? The stadium is still relatively full for every game. Ticket prices are still rising. They are doing a $200 million addition to the football stadium. So no, no one is going insane here. But fact is, the program is nothing like it was in the '60's, '70's or '80's. The winning is not even close to the same level and not nearly as consistent.

My hyperbole is self aware hyperbolicism, thank you.

[Razorbackers]

Close losses???  Ok.  Where and who?

The two games where we had a lead going into the 4th quarter that we slowly pissed away?

[KennyForAD]

That's not blaming the internet. That's saying that the sky is falling attitude is mostly located on the internet. By people. Online. AOL.

Oh.  Well I would call that 'blaming the apathy on the internet.'   If that somehow doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.  And your idea that the apathy only appears to exist online is just plain wrong.  There has been ONE moment in time when the excitement approached that of the 60's 70's and 80's - when Petrino was rolling.   Other than that, our fanbase has been depressed and apathetic about football since 1992.  In basketball, since Nolan quit.

I thought that was beyond debate.  I still do. 

[ChitownHawg]

Funny how I never see someone mention this while also mentioning that we were just as close to being 3-9.

True. Someone like myself will look at the almost 9 win side of it. I prefer going through life as a glass half full kind of person.

Looking at it from the we almost won only 3 wins is a glass half empty. Have you ever been around a glass half empty person for very long? It gets old as everything is hopeless.

All a matter of how you look at life. 

[lutherheggs]

I second this post. Only people who wrap their identity in a sports team would feel hopeless.

I didn't like the last two losses, but life is still pretty good for me. My life's hope isn't tied to the Razorbacks winning. I'm still proud my name is on Senior Walk and of the education the school provided me.

Time for people to place their identity with something else.

Life's hope? Good Lord. Amazing to watch folks read something that is not there. No one has said anything about hope for their life. You either wanted to make a sensational comment and pat yourself on your back or you are not very good at reading in context.

[lutherheggs]

Oh.  Well I would call that 'blaming the apathy on the internet.'   If that somehow doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.  And you're idea that the apathy only appears to exist online is just plain wrong.  There has been ONE moment in time when the excitement approached that of the 60's 70's and 80's - when Petrino was rolling.   Other than that, our fanbase has been depressed and apathetic about football since 1992.  In basketball, since Nolan quit.

I thought that was beyond debate.  I still do.

I can tell you that this thread will further deteriorate if you and I continue to respond to posters like Razorbackers and Chitownhog. Getting them to recognize facts or see reality is like trying to tell a democrat their thinking is not the only way to go.

[ChitownHawg]

The sunshine boys are out in droves today. Good opportunity for guys like us to have some fun lol.

How can someone living in the Sunshine State be so miserable? Did you eat a bad boiled peanut or something?

[code red]

The two games where we had a lead going into the 4th quarter that we slowly pissed away?

Those weren't close....there was no doubt in the middle of the 4th qtr who would win.  Play horse shoes much?

[Cinco de Hogo]

It's not just on the internet people.  If you don't know that interest is down out in public you probably live in a glass tower.  And hope?  As in hope for a championship of some kind?  None!

Now the truth is that's not Longs fault or CBB or CMA, some of its because we play in the SEC but mostly it's because of the culture that the PTB have let exist for a long time now.

Will it ever change?  It can, I've seen cultures change, however in this day and age it seems to come with big problems later on if you know what I mean.   Face it the elite have a firm grasp on everything and you really can't fight it. 

Example:  Did we lose to MU and VU JUST because we had bad nights or they had good nights or was it also because the SEC won't protect our record(a record that might get 4 SEC teams into the tourney) like they will UK or UF etc...  We play a certain style of ball, everyone know that, you can call a game loose or tight, it at the refs  discretion .

[Razorbackers]

Oh.  Well I would call that 'blaming the apathy on the internet.'   If that somehow doesn't make sense to you, I don't know what to tell you.  And your idea that the apathy only appears to exist online is just plain wrong.  There has been ONE moment in time when the excitement approached that of the 60's 70's and 80's - when Petrino was rolling.   Other than that, our fanbase has been depressed and apathetic about football since 1992.  In basketball, since Nolan quit.

I thought that was beyond debate.  I still do.

Man, it's crazy that you guys were so depressed when we had the best backfield in the past 15 years, with a Heisman finalist on the team.

It's crazy that you guys were so depressed when we won 10 games and made it to Atlanta. Also that other time we made it to Atlanta.

It's just cray cray.

[Razorbackers]

I can tell you that this thread will further deteriorate if you and I continue to respond to posters like Razorbackers and Chitownhog. Getting them to recognize facts or see reality is like trying to tell a democrat their thinking is not the only way to go.

You show me one spot in this thread where I trump'd a fact. I'll wait.