Did i hear what i thought i heard on DTS

[JJHog]

                            I mean sid. wilson i never said rick was wrong. i said i wonder why  we are not. here it is. Houston nutt has taken the program backwards. for the most part we were a top 15 program in the 60,s, 70, and 80,s. rick,s friend coach nutt has had 8 going on 9 years to make it a major program again. he has failed.

I don't think Nutt has necessarily failed, he brought us out of the garbage dump to 8 wins a year up until 2004 and helped us get the great new stadium. IS he the guy to get us to 9 wins a year? no sir.

Who has failed are the people that do they hiring and firing by holding on to him for too long.

We should have had the vision to let him get on the plane to Nebraska. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Pork Twain]

I really don't think any of us fans are happy with a losing record or even a 7-5 record. 

What is there to do? 
Call for the coach's head or quit supporting the team. 

I really think there are enough people on here doing #1 and I will never do #2 so I will just wait it out.

[Hawgzilla]

     Just look at some of the teams that have passed us up along the way since HDN took the job-----T.C.U.---Texas Tech----Louisville---Kansas St.-----West Virginia-----California----Iowa----Virginia Tech---Oregon---Arizona St.---Boston College  just too name a few.So it's time for HDN to put up or get out,and no I am not talking about 7-5 either........... :razorback:

[brodie_hawg]

SO we were a major program when nutt was hired?  and he has made us were we are no longer a major program?  I would have to think Arkansas being considered a major program left before nutt was hired.  we have not done much since joining the sec and that was way before nutt was hired.  now granted he has not done anything to improve us in the direction of being a major program, but he did not put us in the shape.

[Wooisme]

Frankly, I don't care how many programs "expect" to be in the Top Twenty-Five consistently.  Why would that in any way be relevant?

At Arkansas, we have the facilities, budget, fan base, & athletes to do it....and all the whining in the world to prop up HDN won't change it.  

Those who only compare HDN to Ford/Crowe consistently "fear" a return to 0 for SMU.  That's ridiculous.  We are in a better position NOW to compete with the "elite" than ever before in our proud history.

We lack leadership.

Let me be MORE clear.  I'm not talking about Arkansas dominating the college football scene.  Expecting our program to consistently finish in the TOP TWENTY-FIVE is not domination.  Given the overall state of the program AND the "state" of Arkansas, it is a reasonable sound expectation that every fan should embrace....

Can HDN get it done?  

As much as I rooted for him and hoped he would be our program's JFB for the 21st century, he cannot.  Everyone who is excited about the great athletes on campus right now need only "look" to 2002 & 2003.  

Do the names Matt Jones, Cedric Cobbs, Fred Talley, Shawn Andrews, Ahmed Carroll, Lawrence Richardson, Jason Peters, Jeb Huckeba & Tony Bua (and others) ring a bell?

After HDN's two-year "pass", has anyone read anything indicating that we have a tremendous foundation for a renewed redshirt program...or are we (did we) waste (burn) redshirts for reasons NOT mandated by injuries during the past two seasons?  

Given HDN's "WhatMeWorry?" get out of accountability card, why?  

"It's just desperate move after desperate move."  

LOL, who said that while out of state and "incognito" on the Georgia Sports Radio Network?  

Apparently even "shillers" can become "reporters" IF they cross state lines.   :razorback:

[hogsNbeer]

I'm still hanging on for one more year as a "hugger".  The reason being is that I think I have a little different perspective on where we stand and how we got there.  When we made the bold and un-precedented move to jump to the SEC and leave the SWC cold and dry, there are some things we didn't foresee....the formation of the Big 12.  I agree with many of you that geographically and even strategically (for recruiting purposes) we belong in the Big 12 and need to find a way to get there eventually.  Not because it is a weaker conference top to bottom (even though it is) but we stand a fighting chance and could be the link to help that conference become a very strong conference from top to bottom, eventually....once we regain our recruiting advantages (IE. state of Texas).

As far as giving HDN a two year pass, I can see another side to this that I don't think many of you see.  For several years running, our head coaching positions (I'm slightly including basketball) we were beginning to look like a revolving door university.  Dale WAS put in a tough position over the Herrod deal and Broyles flat out owed it to him to give him the money via the foundation, force a quality OC on him and give him one more run to see if he could rekindle the way Nutt was taking the program in '98 (although they were Ford's, it shows we can get players).

Finally, Broyles has now done what he had to do to right the ship.  He showed other potential coaches, should Dale need replacing that he has changed and will stand behind his head coach and support him in a way not very often seen anymore.  We would have had a hell of a time finding a quality coach, like a Butch Davis, to even consider us the way things were progressing there for a while....IMHO.

Ok Tulsa, why was Ford dismissed after 2 losing seasons, and NUTT, not only gets a 2 year 'free pass' but extra seasons as head coach.....and dont' say money...... Because I know for a fact that I don't contribute money to the foundation because of the coach.....  Ford could coach circles around NUTT...Ford did win an outright WEST division title.... Something NUTT has never done........  I would like to know your take on this issue.....

[John Futrall]

I'm still hanging on for one more year as a "hugger".  The reason being is that I think I have a little different perspective on where we stand and how we got there.  When we made the bold and un-precedented move to jump to the SEC and leave the SWC cold and dry, there are some things we didn't foresee....the formation of the Big 12.  I agree with many of you that geographically and even strategically (for recruiting purposes) we belong in the Big 12 and need to find a way to get there eventually.  Not because it is a weaker conference top to bottom (even though it is) but we stand a fighting chance and could be the link to help that conference become a very strong conference from top to bottom, eventually....once we regain our recruiting advantages (IE. state of Texas).

As far as giving HDN a two year pass, I can see another side to this that I don't think many of you see.  For several years running, our head coaching positions (I'm slightly including basketball) we were beginning to look like a revolving door university.  Dale WAS put in a tough position over the Herrod deal and Broyles flat out owed it to him to give him the money via the foundation, force a quality OC on him and give him one more run to see if he could rekindle the way Nutt was taking the program in '98 (although they were Ford's, it shows we can get players).

Finally, Broyles has now done what he had to do to right the ship.  He showed other potential coaches, should Dale need replacing that he has changed and will stand behind his head coach and support him in a way not very often seen anymore.  We would have had a hell of a time finding a quality coach, like a Butch Davis, to even consider us the way things were progressing there for a while....IMHO.

Ok Tulsa, why was Ford dismissed after 2 losing seasons, and NUTT, not only gets a 2 year 'free pass' but extra seasons as head coach.....and dont' say money...... Because I know for a fact that I don't contribute money to the foundation because of the coach.....  Ford could coach circles around NUTT...Ford did win an outright WEST division title.... Something NUTT has never done........  I would like to know your take on this issue.....

Right or wrong, his 2-year "pass" in some people's eyes was due to the NCAA sanctions. I think that people were apt to give those two years to him because he said at that initial press conference that he didn't expect the next 2 years to be "successful".

[EastexHawg]

I think way too many Arkansas fans are infatuated with merely being in the SEC.  They are like scrawny little boys hanging around the neighborhood bully...never actually kicking anybody's butt themselves, but doing an awful lot of talking about how tough the crowd they hang out in is.

Personally, I don't get any satisfaction whatsoever out of the successes of Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, or Florida.  I don't get a kick out of playing tough opponents week after week...and LOSING.

I think we have bred a generation of fans who are satisfied with being able to say, "No, we haven't been ranked in seven years...but what do you expect?  WE PLAY IN THE SEC!!!"

I am so sick of hearing about the greatness of the SEC, and how it is virtually impossible to win consistently in the SEC, that it makes me want to puke.

Steve Spurrier came to a Florida program that had never won an official SEC title.  Shortly thereafter, his teams went 34-2 in the big, bad SEC over one four year stretch and won four straight championships.

Auburn has lost ONE regular season SEC game in two years.  ONE.  BTW, they did the same thing in 1993 and 1994, when they went 14-1-1 in the SEC over a two year stretch.

LSU has gone from 4-7 in 1998 and 3-8 in 1999 to a national powerhouse...winning two BCS bowl games, a national championship, and a 40-3 blowout over Miami in last year's Peach Bowl along the way.

Ole Miss was able to put together a squad that won ten games and a New Year's Day bowl game three years ago...and even Mississippi State has had a 10-2 season since Nutt arrived at Arkansas.

Tennessee and Alabama have fielded undefeated national championship teams since Arkansas joined the SEC.  Tennessee lost three SEC games in four years from 1995-1998, playing in two straight BCS title games (and winning one) during that period.  Alabama lost a total of four SEC games in three years from 1992-1994.

Georgia has won 44 games, three East titles, two SEC titles, and three New Year's Day bowl games in the last four years.  Finally, Lou Holtz took South Carolina from 0-11 one year to New Year's Day bowl wins over Ohio State the next two years...and Steve Spurrier led the 'Cocks to a 5-3 SEC record in his first year on the job.

In other words, other programs and other coaches are providing evidence that maybe...just maybe...it can be done...even in the formidable, juggernaut, super powerful SEC.

Meanwhile, many Hog fans clutch to the three steadfast principles of their Manifesto of Mediocrity...namely that:

a.  The SEC is just too tough for any program to win big consistently;
b.  We're just Arkansas.  We are doing the best we can do; and
c.  No coach could do better than Houston Nutt, so why even try?

Maybe I just don't get it, but the question that keeps popping into my mind when I hear this argument (maybe not stated exactly as I have laid it out, but the underlying thought process is similar) is this...

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

[hogsanity]

     Just look at some of the teams that have passed us up along the way since HDN took the job-----T.C.U.---Texas Tech----Louisville---Kansas St.-----West Virginia-----California----Iowa----Virginia Tech---Oregon---Arizona St.---Boston College  just too name a few.So it's time for HDN to put up or get out,and no I am not talking about 7-5 either........... :razorback:

Not one SEC team on your list.  TCU, LOUIS both play in joke conferences.  K-state is right back where they were before Snyder, AZ St?  In the last 20 years they may be on par with the Hogs, but I dont think so.  Oregon, They have had a good run the last 5 years.  BC, nothing special. V-tech, yea I will agree on that one.  TT good the last 4 or 5 years, but overall, nothing great.

[hogsanity]

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

IT gets back to mindset.  Those who think everything is just fine are wrong.  And those who think simply getting a new coach will fix everything are wrong too.

Look at the things people complain about:  "  I cant tailgate like I want to in Fayetteville"  "  There are no traditions on gameday"  "  Why do we have to play at 11am ", etc. 

Maybe it does START with paying a new HC 2.5 mil.  But, are you willing to pay alot more for tickets, because they are not going to pay that kind of money without raising ticket prices and donation expectations?  Lets make the school a deal, if they will pay the 2.5 mil per, WE will help change the rep the state has.  You know, the one where the whole country still thinks all we do is sit around drinking moonshine and eating possums. 

[HognotinMemphis]

I think way too many Arkansas fans are infatuated with merely being in the SEC.  They are like scrawny little boys hanging around the neighborhood bully...never actually kicking anybody's butt themselves, but doing an awful lot of talking about how tough the crowd they hang out in is.

Personally, I don't get any satisfaction whatsoever out of the successes of Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, or Florida.  I don't get a kick out of playing tough opponents week after week...and LOSING.

I think we have bred a generation of fans who are satisfied with being able to say, "No, we haven't been ranked in seven years...but what do you expect?  WE PLAY IN THE SEC!!!"

I am so sick of hearing about the greatness of the SEC, and how it is virtually impossible to win consistently in the SEC, that it makes me want to puke.

Steve Spurrier came to a Florida program that had never won an official SEC title.  Shortly thereafter, his teams went 34-2 in the big, bad SEC over one four year stretch and won four straight championships.

Auburn has lost ONE regular season SEC game in two years.  ONE.  BTW, they did the same thing in 1993 and 1994, when they went 14-1-1 in the SEC over a two year stretch.

LSU has gone from 4-7 in 1998 and 3-8 in 1999 to a national powerhouse...winning two BCS bowl games, a national championship, and a 40-3 blowout over Miami in last year's Peach Bowl along the way.

Ole Miss was able to put together a squad that won ten games and a New Year's Day bowl game three years ago...and even Mississippi State has had a 10-2 season since Nutt arrived at Arkansas.

Tennessee and Alabama have fielded undefeated national championship teams since Arkansas joined the SEC.  Tennessee lost three SEC games in four years from 1995-1998, playing in two straight BCS title games (and winning one) during that period.  Alabama lost a total of four SEC games in three years from 1992-1994.

Georgia has won 44 games, three East titles, two SEC titles, and three New Year's Day bowl games in the last four years.  Finally, Lou Holtz took South Carolina from 0-11 one year to New Year's Day bowl wins over Ohio State the next two years...and Steve Spurrier led the 'Cocks to a 5-3 SEC record in his first year on the job.

In other words, other programs and other coaches are providing evidence that maybe...just maybe...it can be done...even in the formidable, juggernaut, super powerful SEC.

Meanwhile, many Hog fans clutch to the three steadfast principles of their Manifesto of Mediocrity...namely that:

a.  The SEC is just too tough for any program to win big consistently;
b.  We're just Arkansas.  We are doing the best we can do; and
c.  No coach could do better than Houston Nutt, so why even try?

Maybe I just don't get it, but the question that keeps popping into my mind when I hear this argument (maybe not stated exactly as I have laid it out, but the underlying thought process is similar) is this...

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

Don't let go of the rope. And love the helmet.

[HognotinMemphis]

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

IT gets back to mindset.  Those who think everything is just fine are wrong.  And those who think simply getting a new coach will fix everything are wrong too.

Look at the things people complain about:  "  I cant tailgate like I want to in Fayetteville"  "  There are no traditions on gameday"  "  Why do we have to play at 11am ", etc. 

Maybe it does START with paying a new HC 2.5 mil.  But, are you willing to pay alot more for tickets, because they are not going to pay that kind of money without raising ticket prices and donation expectations?  Lets make the school a deal, if they will pay the 2.5 mil per, WE will help change the rep the state has.  You know, the one where the whole country still thinks all we do is sit around drinking moonshine and eating possums. 

But I like my moonshine and occasional possum or armadillo.

[EastexHawg]

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

IT gets back to mindset.  Those who think everything is just fine are wrong.  And those who think simply getting a new coach will fix everything are wrong too.

Look at the things people complain about:  "  I cant tailgate like I want to in Fayetteville"  "  There are no traditions on gameday"  "  Why do we have to play at 11am ", etc. 

Maybe it does START with paying a new HC 2.5 mil.  But, are you willing to pay alot more for tickets, because they are not going to pay that kind of money without raising ticket prices and donation expectations?  Lets make the school a deal, if they will pay the 2.5 mil per, WE will help change the rep the state has.  You know, the one where the whole country still thinks all we do is sit around drinking moonshine and eating possums. 

Arkansas averaged 68,037 attendance per Fayetteville game last year.  With the two Little Rock crowds added in, total attendance for six home games was 382,070.

Houston Nutt currently makes $1.5 million per year.  Even accepting your fallacious assumption that the only way to win big in the SEC would be to pay a big-time coach $2.5 million per year (isn't Steve Spurrier making less than $1 million at SC?  He was only making $2.1 million at Florida.  But...anyway), that would mean an increase in the head coach's salary of $1 million per year.

$1 million divided by 382,070 (total 2005 home ticket sales) comes out to $2.61 per ticket per game.

So, yes...I would be willing to pay $2.61 more per ticket to bring in a new head coach.  He may or may not win big, but...crap, I suppose after eight years of Nutt that's just a chance I am willing to take.  Call me a gambler, I guess.

Also keep in mind that there will never be fewer home games than there were last year.  There will be eight home games this year, for example.

Add the "we would have to pay big bucks to get a big name coach in here" argument to the list of excuses for holding onto Nutt that baffles me.  Call me a free spender, but since I am not personally writing the check to pay the coach's salary, I can't say that how much we have to pay to get a winner in the Broyles Complex is a major stumbling block for me when it comes to the decision regarding keeping Nutt or sending him packing.

[dana caldwell]

just curious as to JFB's salary as salaries keep coming up in this thread. anyone know that and/or how it compares to his contemporaries?

[HatfieldHog]

Arkansas averaged 68,037 attendance per Fayetteville game last year.  With the two Little Rock crowds added in, total attendance for six home games was 382,070.

Houston Nutt currently makes $1.5 million per year.  Even accepting your fallacious assumption that the only way to win big in the SEC would be to pay a big-time coach $2.5 million per year (isn't Steve Spurrier making less than $1 million at SC?  He was only making $2.1 million at Florida.  But...anyway), that would mean an increase in the head coach's salary of $1 million per year.

$1 million divided by 382,070 (total 2005 home ticket sales) comes out to $2.61 per ticket per game.

So, yes...I would be willing to pay $2.61 more per ticket to bring in a new head coach.  He may or may not win big, but...crap, I suppose after eight years of Nutt that's just a chance I am willing to take.  Call me a gambler, I guess.

Also keep in mind that there will never be fewer home games than there were last year.  There will be eight home games this year, for example.

Add the "we would have to pay big bucks to get a big name coach in here" argument to the list of excuses for holding onto Nutt that baffles me.  Call me a free spender, but since I am not personally writing the check to pay the coach's salary, I can't say that how much we have to pay to get a winner in the Broyles Complex is a major stumbling block for me when it comes to the decision regarding keeping Nutt or sending him packing.

I, for one, don't go to many games, I simply don't have time to do that on the weekend.  But, I watch on televison.  I'm not one who pays the high ticket prices, but, I am a fan.  Do I matter?  That is the question. 

When Dear Frank told us last year, that 95% of the donating, season ticket buying fans were solidly behind HDN, to me, he said that I don't matter!  Even if my tax dollars fund the University of Arkansas, I still don't matter.

But, if I were a season ticket holder, and paid $500.00 bucks for a yearly package, it would certainly be reasonable to me to up that to $550.00 to pay a new coach 2.5 million.

Just my opinion,  BTW, DO I MATTER?           See ya

[HogFather]

                                 Did rick just say we are not a major program anymore? I wonder why rick? he is getting us ready for another 7 and 5 season. after which a lot of people will say everything is fine, and a trip to a small bowl game. it's relly sad when our former AD thinks we are not a major program anymore.

yes

[Sonofahog]

If we are talking salaries,  then look at the rest of the SEC and see where HDN ranks in pay.   I guess the "you get what you pay for" thing might apply here.  Raise ticket prices $10 a game,  I don't care as long as we become a winning program again.  Pay someone 2.5 million,  I don't care as long as we become a winning program again.

It is put up or shut up time for the football program.  They need to win NOW, not next year.  HDN must not be allowed to survive another year if he wins less than 9 games.   

If we win 8 and he stays,  expect that to be as good as it will get.  Again,  win 9 or more and things will quiet down.  But we have to set the bar high for this year,  and REALLY high for next year.   

[HognotinMemphis]

just curious as to JFB's salary as salaries keep coming up in this thread. anyone know that and/or how it compares to his contemporaries?

Last I saw, JFB's salary is $300,000. Do not know how it compares to other AD salaries in SEC.

How about we don't pay Nutt any additional salary but instead, if he has another losing season, every fan gets to punch him in the stomach after the last home game.

[hog caller]

let everyone think what they want . if they think we are not a major program then a good sound butt kicking should change their minds.

[Hawgzilla]

just curious as to JFB's salary as salaries keep coming up in this thread. anyone know that and/or how it compares to his contemporaries?

Last I saw, JFB's salary is $300,000. Do not know how it compares to other AD salaries in SEC.

How about we don't pay Nutt any additional salary but instead, if he has another losing season, every fan gets to punch him in the stomach after the last home game.

             Damn HIM,being a little rough on HDN''punch him in the stomach.......I say we all get to pour some of that KOOL-AID in his face.........

[hogfan1]

I think way too many Arkansas fans are infatuated with merely being in the SEC.  They are like scrawny little boys hanging around the neighborhood bully...never actually kicking anybody's butt themselves, but doing an awful lot of talking about how tough the crowd they hang out in is.

Personally, I don't get any satisfaction whatsoever out of the successes of Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, or Florida.  I don't get a kick out of playing tough opponents week after week...and LOSING.

I think we have bred a generation of fans who are satisfied with being able to say, "No, we haven't been ranked in seven years...but what do you expect?  WE PLAY IN THE SEC!!!"

I am so sick of hearing about the greatness of the SEC, and how it is virtually impossible to win consistently in the SEC, that it makes me want to puke.

Steve Spurrier came to a Florida program that had never won an official SEC title.  Shortly thereafter, his teams went 34-2 in the big, bad SEC over one four year stretch and won four straight championships.

Auburn has lost ONE regular season SEC game in two years.  ONE.  BTW, they did the same thing in 1993 and 1994, when they went 14-1-1 in the SEC over a two year stretch.

LSU has gone from 4-7 in 1998 and 3-8 in 1999 to a national powerhouse...winning two BCS bowl games, a national championship, and a 40-3 blowout over Miami in last year's Peach Bowl along the way.

Ole Miss was able to put together a squad that won ten games and a New Year's Day bowl game three years ago...and even Mississippi State has had a 10-2 season since Nutt arrived at Arkansas.

Tennessee and Alabama have fielded undefeated national championship teams since Arkansas joined the SEC.  Tennessee lost three SEC games in four years from 1995-1998, playing in two straight BCS title games (and winning one) during that period.  Alabama lost a total of four SEC games in three years from 1992-1994.

Georgia has won 44 games, three East titles, two SEC titles, and three New Year's Day bowl games in the last four years.  Finally, Lou Holtz took South Carolina from 0-11 one year to New Year's Day bowl wins over Ohio State the next two years...and Steve Spurrier led the 'Cocks to a 5-3 SEC record in his first year on the job.

In other words, other programs and other coaches are providing evidence that maybe...just maybe...it can be done...even in the formidable, juggernaut, super powerful SEC.

Meanwhile, many Hog fans clutch to the three steadfast principles of their Manifesto of Mediocrity...namely that:

a.  The SEC is just too tough for any program to win big consistently;
b.  We're just Arkansas.  We are doing the best we can do; and
c.  No coach could do better than Houston Nutt, so why even try?

Maybe I just don't get it, but the question that keeps popping into my mind when I hear this argument (maybe not stated exactly as I have laid it out, but the underlying thought process is similar) is this...

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

So in arguing against the idea that "no program can win CONSISTENTLY in the SEC", you point out how well a few teams did over three or four year streches.  I'm not really saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that argument doesn't seem to support your position.

[woodhog14]

     Just look at some of the teams that have passed us up along the way since HDN took the job-----T.C.U.---Texas Tech----Louisville---Kansas St.-----West Virginia-----California----Iowa----Virginia Tech---Oregon---Arizona St.---Boston College  just too name a few.So it's time for HDN to put up or get out,and no I am not talking about 7-5 either........... :razorback:

Not one SEC team on your list.  TCU, LOUIS both play in joke conferences.  K-state is right back where they were before Snyder, AZ St?  In the last 20 years they may be on par with the Hogs, but I don't think so.  Oregon, They have had a good run the last 5 years.  BC, nothing special. V-tech, yea I will agree on that one.  TT good the last 4 or 5 years, but overall, nothing great.

I think nationally, people perceive Oregon as a better program than us.  They have been to a bowl game 9 out of the last 12 years with one of them being a BCS bowl.  Not only did they get to the Fiesta Bowl, they beat Big XII champ Colorado 38-16.  That same Colorado team that beat Nebraska 63-20, who played for the BCSNC against Miami. The Hogs have got to start going at least 5-3 or better every year in the SEC, with a couple of competitive SECCG showings to be considered a national team.

[djgaffer]

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

That's a fair question.  I'll give it a shot.  If you truly believe that HDN is the worst coach in the SEC, or that he belongs at a 1-AA school, the rest will mean nothing to you, so you can move on.  But what I believe is that there are a few elite coaches in the NCAA.  They're being discussed in another thread.  But once you get below the top 5 or 10 coaches, I think there is a group of maybe 30 or 40 who are very similar coaches.  All good football guys who differ only because they are in different circumstances and in different locations.  I think HDN fits in that group.

What I also believe is that this is not a program that is going to continue to win 5 and 4 games.  I think the last two years are fairly easily explainable, although I think we did underachieve by probably 2 games in 2005.  But I think we are going to get good results in '06, and I have no reason to believe we won't move up from there.

SO, what I'm afraid of is that we won't have a plan B.  Nebraska and Ole Miss are good examples of teams that perceive themselves to be greater jobs than they are.  They fired Solich and Cutcliffe because they "wouldn't accept mediocrity", then were amazed at how few people showed up wanting their jobs.  They wound up with their 7th or 8th choices and not even an upgrade over what they had.  They went backwards first.

Also, with every almost every firing there are ramifications.  Players are going to leave.  Who knows who?  But it could be significant players that now have a free chance to exit.  Also, you are leaving the new coach very behind in the recruiting process.  You will lose all players that have committed to the current coach or staff.  You will keep the ones that just want to be Razorbacks.  But the new coach will have to do some selling that late in the process to salvage a class.  They'll have two months, if you didn't qualify for a bowl game.

Between the ones you lose and the ones you don't get, you have reduced numbers.  So if you fire a coach because the program is in decline, and the new coach already starts wiith reduced numbers, how many years do you give him to produce?  Usually it's about 4.  So, his limited first class are now seniors.  If he doesn't produce after 3 or 4 years, it's hard to justify keeping him.  So, you start the process all over again.  This can occur over decades before you finally catch lightening in a bottle with the right coach / class that works well together.  Between those years you've officially become Ole Miss.

So, to answer the original question, I'm afraid of the spin cycle.  I believe continuity is the best way to build a program.  I believe in Reggie Herring, Gus Malzahn, Alex Wood, and others.  I think good things are around the corner.  I think we have enough history on HDN to prove that we can win at an acceptable level, that being 8,9 wins a year.  I think the biggest potential weekness has been addressed with another playcaller on Saturdays.  I just don't think firing a staff to insert "Coach to be named later" is the right way to get us where we want to go. 

[hogsNbeer]

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

I think we have enough history on HDN to prove that we can win at an acceptable level, that being 8,9 wins a year.   

Here's the question dj, what have you seen that nobody else has seen in the last 8 years that makes you believe that NUTT can win 8 and 9 games a year..........an acceptable level as you call it.....I'd like to know....

[EastexHawg]

I think only an idiot would suggest firing the current coach without having the new coach already in the fold. 

How long did it take Bob Stoops to win big at Oklahoma?  Nick Saban at LSU?  Spurrier at Florida?  Richt at Georgia?  Royal at Texas?  Bryant at Alabama?  Dan Devine at Missouri?

And how long did it take Frank Broyles at Arkansas?

I'll answer the Broyles question.  Arkansas had had only five winning seasons in the 19 years before Broyles arrived.  The Hogs had won a total of three Southwest Conference football championships in 44 years before Broyles' arrival...and had finished ranked in the Top Ten only once (1954).

Broyles won the SWC championship in his second year...and in his third year...and in his fourth year.  That's right...Frank Broyles won as many SWC titles in his first four years on the job as the Arkansas program had won in its entire history up to that point.

He won the SWC five times in his first eight years...and finished in the Top Ten six of those first eight seasons.  He also won a national championship along the way...

So while I understand your argument, I don't agree with your premise.  I don't agree with the notion that the Arkansas football program should hang onto a mediocre (at best) head coach (my description, not yours) because of fear of the unknown.  There are plenty of examples of top notch coaches turning programs around almost immediately. 

Besides, even if it took a few years for a good coach to come in and get his program established...and start winning consistently...I am in favor of cutting our losses, getting rid of Nutt, and making the move now.  Every year we hang onto a substandard coach means we are one year further away from Arkansas football being the absolute BEST it can be.

And...that is what I want.  I want the BEST.  Not okay, not acceptable, not pretty good, not "good enough".  I want the program to be the absolute BEST it can be. 

[Macgyver Hawg]

If anyone thinks we can only be a 7-5 football program they are either not a hog fan, or works in the Broyles Complex.

[djgaffer]

Here's the question dj, what have you seen that nobody else has seen in the last 8 years that makes you believe that NUTT can win 8 and 9 games a year..........an acceptable level as you call it.....I'd like to know....

The simple answer is that I've seen 8 and 9 win seasons here.  Exceptions being when we've either been replacing an inordinate amount of starters, or breaking in a new quarterback.  Although it isn't popular, I do discount the negatives of the previous 2 seasons.  When you lose what we lost after '03, and then you lose Matt Jones while those replacements are still relatively inexperienced, you're going to struggle.  All of this should have been overcome by recruiting; but buy the argument or not, '04 and '05 are when we were hurt most by the classes effected by the investigation.  I do believe it was a factor. 

I also think, as I said in my novel above, that the biggest "opportunity" (I don't like the word weakness) of the coaching staff has been addressed by the hiring of a play caller. 

Also, regarding the 8/9 season I said was acceptable.  We do have to find a way to win the ones that get away and stretch the 8/9 to 10/12.  That obvioulsy is the goal and one HDN's staff has yet to achieve.  To win 8 or 9 in this league though, is a good season.  That makes you 4-4 or 5-3 in the best league in the country.  The polls won't show it because they don't put 4 loss teams in the poll, but a 4-4 SEC team is a top 25-30 program.

[djgaffer]

I think only an idiot would suggest firing the current coach without having the new coach already in the fold. 
How long did it take Bob Stoops to win big at Oklahoma?  Nick Saban at LSU?  Spurrier at Florida?  Richt at Georgia?  Royal at Texas?  Bryant at Alabama?  Dan Devine at Missouri?
And how long did it take Frank Broyles at Arkansas?
I'll answer the Broyles question.  Arkansas had had only five winning seasons in the 19 years before Broyles arrived.  The Hogs had won a total of three Southwest Conference football championships in 44 years before Broyles' arrival...and had finished ranked in the Top Ten only once (1954).
Broyles won the SWC championship in his second year...and in his third year...and in his fourth year.  That's right...Frank Broyles won as many SWC titles in his first four years on the job as the Arkansas program had won in its entire history up to that point.
He won the SWC five times in his first eight years...and finished in the Top Ten six of those first eight seasons.  He also won a national championship along the way...
So while I understand your argument, I don't agree with your premise.  I don't agree with the notion that the Arkansas football program should hang onto a mediocre (at best) head coach (my description, not yours) because of fear of the unknown.  There are plenty of examples of top notch coaches turning programs around almost immediately. 
Besides, even if it took a few years for a good coach to come in and get his program established...and start winning consistently...I am in favor of cutting our losses, getting rid of Nutt, and making the move now.  Every year we hang onto a substandard coach means we are one year further away from Arkansas football being the absolute BEST it can be.
And...that is what I want.  I want the BEST.  Not okay, not acceptable, not pretty good, not "good enough".  I want the program to be the absolute BEST it can be. 

To address your coaches individually:
Stoops took over a storied program at OU that had only a very recent history of hard times. 
LSU is a good example of a team that kept firing coaches until they finally got one that worked.  I doubt you would find what they did from 1987 through 2000 as acceptable.  I think it's bad business to tolerate 13 bad seasons to finally get it right in year 14 or 15. 
Spurrier is a good example.  He came with an innovate scheme when nobody was utilizing it.  He was however, benefitted by a recruiting hotbed when he got the ball running. 

I'm not going to diminish the Hogs of Broyles in any way.  We deserve all the glory we got from those years.  But the 60s are not relevant to today in any way.  The game has changed.  230 pound tackles and 4.8 running backs could win in that day.  Not anymore.  Scholarship limitations, Sportscenter, recruiting services... just not relevant. 

We differ in our opinion of Nutt obviously.  I do think there are better coaches in America of course.  If you're waiting for a top 10 coach to come here, it's probably not going to happen.  You're probably going to take a flyer on a guy hoping he's the next top 10 coach.  If he turns out to be Stoops, you win.  But where would Stoops be if he took the Ole Miss job instead?  I bet he wouldn't be on your top 5 list.  Myles will be successful at LSU because of what he inherited.  Same with Urban Meyer.  Croom, Orgeron, will be much less successful and probably looking for work.

I think we're about to turn the corner.  I could be wrong.  But if we are heading in the right direction, changing a staff is a step in the wrong direction that you have to recover from before you can go forward.

[TulsaFan]

I'm still hanging on for one more year as a "hugger".  The reason being is that I think I have a little different perspective on where we stand and how we got there.  When we made the bold and un-precedented move to jump to the SEC and leave the SWC cold and dry, there are some things we didn't foresee....the formation of the Big 12.  I agree with many of you that geographically and even strategically (for recruiting purposes) we belong in the Big 12 and need to find a way to get there eventually.  Not because it is a weaker conference top to bottom (even though it is) but we stand a fighting chance and could be the link to help that conference become a very strong conference from top to bottom, eventually....once we regain our recruiting advantages (IE. state of Texas).

As far as giving HDN a two year pass, I can see another side to this that I don't think many of you see.  For several years running, our head coaching positions (I'm slightly including basketball) we were beginning to look like a revolving door university.  Dale WAS put in a tough position over the Herrod deal and Broyles flat out owed it to him to give him the money via the foundation, force a quality OC on him and give him one more run to see if he could rekindle the way Nutt was taking the program in '98 (although they were Ford's, it shows we can get players).

Finally, Broyles has now done what he had to do to right the ship.  He showed other potential coaches, should Dale need replacing that he has changed and will stand behind his head coach and support him in a way not very often seen anymore.  We would have had a hell of a time finding a quality coach, like a Butch Davis, to even consider us the way things were progressing there for a while....IMHO.

Ok Tulsa, why was Ford dismissed after 2 losing seasons, and NUTT, not only gets a 2 year 'free pass' but extra seasons as head coach.....and dont' say money...... Because I know for a fact that I don't contribute money to the foundation because of the coach.....  Ford could coach circles around NUTT...Ford did win an outright WEST division title.... Something NUTT has never done........  I would like to know your take on this issue.....

I know for a fact that Ford "gave up".  He is a great guy that got sick and tired of coaching at Arkansas and wanted to go back home and sit on his John Deer with a cold one in his hand.  As I said before, I think the whole Herrod deal did put Nutt in a bad position right in the middle of having us play Texas in the Cotton Bowl.  Subsequently, that's when the ship started going down hill.  Let me be very clear in that I think Nutt has been very bull headed and arrogant with some of his decisions or non-decisions the past few years and if it doesn't turn around right now, he has to go.  Broyles has made a great statement to other great candidates to replace Nutt that didn't used to be the case, however....he stands behind his coaches now and I think that will go a long way in recruiting a top caliber replacement for Nutt if needed.

[Sao Ming]

Just a note on the subject of salary and ticket increases, one doesn't rely on the other.  A new HC could be paid 1M over HDN's current salary without relying solely on ticket price increases.  The revenue is there and if the new HC wins, wins take care of the rest.  Afterall, who do you think gets a big chunk of that Hog Magnet we sport on our SUV's? 

To go a tad further, the Complex could actaully lower ticket prices during winning years to ensure higher profits.  Who in thier right mind wouldnt show up to see us win while at the same time saving 10-12% off current stub prices?  No one.  Couldnt find a seat for any game (even you ULaLa). 

First things first - find a 2.5M coach worth the money.  They're harder to find than you might realize.   

[Chinese Emperor]

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

That's a fair question.  I'll give it a shot.  If you truly believe that HDN is the worst coach in the SEC, or that he belongs at a 1-AA school, the rest will mean nothing to you, so you can move on.  But what I believe is that there are a few elite coaches in the NCAA.  They're being discussed in another thread.  But once you get below the top 5 or 10 coaches, I think there is a group of maybe 30 or 40 who are very similar coaches.  All good football guys who differ only because they are in different circumstances and in different locations.  I think HDN fits in that group.

What I also believe is that this is not a program that is going to continue to win 5 and 4 games.  I think the last two years are fairly easily explainable, although I think we did underachieve by probably 2 games in 2005.  But I think we are going to get good results in '06, and I have no reason to believe we won't move up from there.

SO, what I'm afraid of is that we won't have a plan B.  Nebraska and Ole Miss are good examples of teams that perceive themselves to be greater jobs than they are.  They fired Solich and Cutcliffe because they "wouldn't accept mediocrity", then were amazed at how few people showed up wanting their jobs.  They wound up with their 7th or 8th choices and not even an upgrade over what they had.  They went backwards first.

Also, with every almost every firing there are ramifications.  Players are going to leave.  Who knows who?  But it could be significant players that now have a free chance to exit.  Also, you are leaving the new coach very behind in the recruiting process.  You will lose all players that have committed to the current coach or staff.  You will keep the ones that just want to be Razorbacks.  But the new coach will have to do some selling that late in the process to salvage a class.  They'll have two months, if you didn't qualify for a bowl game.

Between the ones you lose and the ones you don't get, you have reduced numbers.  So if you fire a coach because the program is in decline, and the new coach already starts wiith reduced numbers, how many years do you give him to produce?  Usually it's about 4.  So, his limited first class are now seniors.  If he doesn't produce after 3 or 4 years, it's hard to justify keeping him.  So, you start the process all over again.  This can occur over decades before you finally catch lightening in a bottle with the right coach / class that works well together.  Between those years you've officially become Ole Miss.

So, to answer the original question, I'm afraid of the spin cycle.  I believe continuity is the best way to build a program.  I believe in Reggie Herring, Gus Malzahn, Alex Wood, and others.  I think good things are around the corner.  I think we have enough history on HDN to prove that we can win at an acceptable level, that being 8,9 wins a year.  I think the biggest potential weekness has been addressed with another playcaller on Saturdays.  I just don't think firing a staff to insert "Coach to be named later" is the right way to get us where we want to go. 

As long as HDN fits in that 30-40 group, I'm with ya' on this arguement.  However, there are 2 points to bring up pertaining to that arguement.  One:  he needs to prove it this year.  There are no more excuses.  Two:  I believe the coach to be named later lives right up the street in Butch Davis...a coach who's already proven to be in at least the 30-40 group you talked about and maybe even in the top 10. 

[ClubChubby]

If you are admitting that we are NOT a major program, that the SEC is too tough for Arkansas (at least in its current condition) to win big, and that what we are getting with Houston Nutt is all you expect to get...

Why are you so determined to hold onto the status quo?  Do you really enjoy averaging six wins per year so much, and being able to say "at least we're better than the Mississippi schools" so much that you are unwilling to risk changing what we have now?   

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

IT gets back to mindset.  Those who think everything is just fine are wrong.  And those who think simply getting a new coach will fix everything are wrong too.

Look at the things people complain about:  "  I cant tailgate like I want to in Fayetteville"  "  There are no traditions on gameday"  "  Why do we have to play at 11am ", etc. 

Maybe it does START with paying a new HC 2.5 mil.  But, are you willing to pay alot more for tickets, because they are not going to pay that kind of money without raising ticket prices and donation expectations?  Lets make the school a deal, if they will pay the 2.5 mil per, WE will help change the rep the state has.  You know, the one where the whole country still thinks all we do is sit around drinking moonshine and eating possums. 

Well, we could get a decent website up. Maybe even have our coaches on it, with like pictures or something. Maybe then we won't seem to be 'shine loving possum eaters.

It might also help if we got rid of that hilljack on the sidelines.

[ThunderHog]

I have a cousin that played in the SEC for Vanderbilt several years back.  When Arkansas made the change to the SEC he predicted that the program would become mediocre for various reasons, but the main obstacle; Arkansas is more of a border state to the SEC and would not have any natural rivalries, making recruiting in AL, GA, TN,  etc next to impossible. With the campus located in the extreme NW corner, everything takes on more of a Midwest atmosphere.  Facilities and resources are no problem.  Its location, location, location.  We would make a great big 12 school

[mojobeaux]

I have a cousin that played in the SEC for Vanderbilt several years back.  When Arkansas made the change to the SEC he predicted that the program would become mediocre for various reasons, but the main obstacle; Arkansas is more of a border state to the SEC and would not have any natural rivalries, making recruiting in AL, GA, TN,  etc next to impossible. With the campus located in the extreme NW corner, everything takes on more of a Midwest atmosphere.  Facilities and resources are no problem.  Its location, location, location.  We would make a great big 12 school

fayetteville may be in the furthest corner of the state, and that may have some impact.  fayetteville is not, imo, "midwest" in its atmosphere.  i have visited almost all of the sec schools, and several midwest schools.  fayetteville is very much an sec campus in terms of atmosphere (again, imo).

on the map we may look to fit better in the big 12, but we are a perfect fit for the sec in terms of campus atmosphere.

-mojo

[mojobeaux]

p.s.

i drink moonshine and eat possum also.

-mojo

[Sonofahog]

Just a note on the subject of salary and ticket increases, one doesn't rely on the other.  A new HC could be paid 1M over HDN's current salary without relying solely on ticket price increases.  The revenue is there and if the new HC wins, wins take care of the rest.  Afterall, who do you think gets a big chunk of that Hog Magnet we sport on our SUV's? 

To go a tad further, the Complex could actaully lower ticket prices during winning years to ensure higher profits.  Who in thier right mind wouldnt show up to see us win while at the same time saving 10-12% off current stub prices?  No one.  Couldnt find a seat for any game (even you ULaLa). 

First things first - find a 2.5M coach worth the money.  They're harder to find than you might realize.  

Actually,  a 2.5 million dollar coach isn't harder to find than I realize.  Finding one that will coach at Arkansas might be another story.

I am not saying we have to raise ticket prices to afford to pay more for a coach.  I am saying I don't care what we have to pay for the coach or the tickets,  as long as we become a winning program again.

But, thanks for the economics lesson again professor.

[werehog]

Arkansas in the right conference. I can remember when the season's big games Ole Miss and LSU, not Texas and the next best SWC team. What we get in Texas are leftovers. I'd rather see us recruit in Florida where playing in the SEC is a big deal. I think we have done fairly well recruiting in North Louisiana and Georgia. I have not idea why we don't recruit Memphis better. We seem to ignore Kansas City and St. Louis, two prime urban areas in a time when Mizzou football is mired in  mediocrity. We need a lot better recruiting. which will make the coaching seem better even if it isn't. I predict we will be at least 8-4 this year.

[ClubChubby]

WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE SO AFRAID OF LOSING?

That's a fair question.  I'll give it a shot.  If you truly believe that HDN is the worst coach in the SEC, or that he belongs at a 1-AA school, the rest will mean nothing to you, so you can move on.  But what I believe is that there are a few elite coaches in the NCAA.  They're being discussed in another thread.  But once you get below the top 5 or 10 coaches, I think there is a group of maybe 30 or 40 who are very similar coaches.  All good football guys who differ only because they are in different circumstances and in different locations.  I think HDN fits in that group.

What I also believe is that this is not a program that is going to continue to win 5 and 4 games.  I think the last two years are fairly easily explainable, although I think we did underachieve by probably 2 games in 2005.  But I think we are going to get good results in '06, and I have no reason to believe we won't move up from there.

SO, what I'm afraid of is that we won't have a plan B.  Nebraska and Ole Miss are good examples of teams that perceive themselves to be greater jobs than they are.  They fired Solich and Cutcliffe because they "wouldn't accept mediocrity", then were amazed at how few people showed up wanting their jobs.  They wound up with their 7th or 8th choices and not even an upgrade over what they had.  They went backwards first.

Also, with every almost every firing there are ramifications.  Players are going to leave.  Who knows who?  But it could be significant players that now have a free chance to exit.  Also, you are leaving the new coach very behind in the recruiting process.  You will lose all players that have committed to the current coach or staff.  You will keep the ones that just want to be Razorbacks.  But the new coach will have to do some selling that late in the process to salvage a class.  They'll have two months, if you didn't qualify for a bowl game.

Between the ones you lose and the ones you don't get, you have reduced numbers.  So if you fire a coach because the program is in decline, and the new coach already starts wiith reduced numbers, how many years do you give him to produce?  Usually it's about 4.  So, his limited first class are now seniors.  If he doesn't produce after 3 or 4 years, it's hard to justify keeping him.  So, you start the process all over again.  This can occur over decades before you finally catch lightening in a bottle with the right coach / class that works well together.  Between those years you've officially become Ole Miss.

So, to answer the original question, I'm afraid of the spin cycle.  I believe continuity is the best way to build a program.  I believe in Reggie Herring, Gus Malzahn, Alex Wood, and others.  I think good things are around the corner.  I think we have enough history on HDN to prove that we can win at an acceptable level, that being 8,9 wins a year.  I think the biggest potential weekness has been addressed with another playcaller on Saturdays.  I just don't think firing a staff to insert "Coach to be named later" is the right way to get us where we want to go. 

That's a nice post. Very well said, with some good points.
I might not agree nutt is in the top 30-40, I'd say 50-60, but the point is highly debatable. And even using my figure, you've still got a great point when you ask can we really hire someone better.
Butch would appear to be waiting, and if so, there would be one great coach we might get. After that, I don't know. I believe it would take more like 3 million, maybe 3.5 with a guaranteed contract to hire a bigname guy.
We'd also have to let gus and reggie go. No bigname is going to come here without his own coordinators, I don't care what we're paying him. Might not be a problem with butch.
We'd also have to move frank up to emeritus or something. No bigname is coming here with frank telling him who to hire and fire.
Of course none of this is going to happen. Frank's never letting go, he's never going to turn loose the money, and butch is gone to college station or elsewhere.
So we're aren't going to be hiring a bigname.
There's kragthorpe, he'd be cheap. Better gameday coach than nutt. Might not mind keeping gus and reggie. Can he recruit? The first year? There's the big question.
I'd say he could with gus and alex. And especially if frank would get off his butt and help. Really update the website this time. Come up with some slick brochures or something.

So, Kragthorpe for nutt?
Nutt, in my mind, has proven he can't do it.
I say we give someone else a chance.

[hogsNbeer]

Here's the question dj, what have you seen that nobody else has seen in the last 8 years that makes you believe that NUTT can win 8 and 9 games a year..........an acceptable level as you call it.....I'd like to know....

The simple answer is that I've seen 8 and 9 win seasons here.  Exceptions being when we've either been replacing an inordinate amount of starters, or breaking in a new quarterback.  Although it isn't popular, I do discount the negatives of the previous 2 seasons.  When you lose what we lost after '03, and then you lose Matt Jones while those replacements are still relatively inexperienced, you're going to struggle.  All of this should have been overcome by recruiting; but buy the argument or not, '04 and '05 are when we were hurt most by the classes effected by the investigation.  I do believe it was a factor. 

I also think, as I said in my novel above, that the biggest "opportunity" (I don't like the word weakness) of the coaching staff has been addressed by the hiring of a play caller. 

Also, regarding the 8/9 season I said was acceptable.  We do have to find a way to win the ones that get away and stretch the 8/9 to 10/12.  That obvioulsy is the goal and one HDN's staff has yet to achieve.  To win 8 or 9 in this league though, is a good season.  That makes you 4-4 or 5-3 in the best league in the country.  The polls won't show it because they don't put 4 loss teams in the poll, but a 4-4 SEC team is a top 25-30 program.

So you are happy with 4-4 SEC Conf record each year.....Boy, you sure have low expectations....4-4 is .500 ball in SEC, nothing to jump up and down for........ Tell Florida, or LSU that 4-4 is ok and they'll LAUGH your A$$ right outta there........   This is why we will never be a powerhouse....Our FANS are happy with .500 ball........ PITIFUL!!!!!!!!!! 

[EastexHawg]

It is funny how so many people talk about the fact that Butch Davis, who just happens to be an Arkansas boy and a former Razorback...and who just happens to live right down the road from the campus...and who has built a college program (Miami) that finished #2 in the polls one year, won the national championship the next, and lost in overtime in the BCS title game the year after that...and who Jimmy Johnson chose to coordinate the defense as he was building a virtual dynasty in Dallas...and who, according to account after account wants the job...is available almost in passing, as if they are talking about the local eighth grade coach.

It goes something like this..."Yeah, we could probably get Butch Davis.  But what other big time coach would want to come here?"

That cracks me up.

It's about like saying, "Yeah, sure.  Mutt Lange is married to Shania Twain...but besides Shania, what other hot women is he sleeping with?"

[djgaffer]

Here's the question dj, what have you seen that nobody else has seen in the last 8 years that makes you believe that NUTT can win 8 and 9 games a year..........an acceptable level as you call it.....I'd like to know....

The simple answer is that I've seen 8 and 9 win seasons here.  Exceptions being when we've either been replacing an inordinate amount of starters, or breaking in a new quarterback.  Although it isn't popular, I do discount the negatives of the previous 2 seasons.  When you lose what we lost after '03, and then you lose Matt Jones while those replacements are still relatively inexperienced, you're going to struggle.  All of this should have been overcome by recruiting; but buy the argument or not, '04 and '05 are when we were hurt most by the classes effected by the investigation.  I do believe it was a factor. 

I also think, as I said in my novel above, that the biggest "opportunity" (I don't like the word weakness) of the coaching staff has been addressed by the hiring of a play caller. 

Also, regarding the 8/9 season I said was acceptable.  We do have to find a way to win the ones that get away and stretch the 8/9 to 10/12.  That obvioulsy is the goal and one HDN's staff has yet to achieve.  To win 8 or 9 in this league though, is a good season.  That makes you 4-4 or 5-3 in the best league in the country.  The polls won't show it because they don't put 4 loss teams in the poll, but a 4-4 SEC team is a top 25-30 program.


So you are happy with 4-4 SEC Conf record each year.....Boy, you sure have low expectations....4-4 is .500 ball in SEC, nothing to jump up and down for........ Tell Florida, or LSU that 4-4 is ok and they'll LAUGH your A$$ right outta there........   This is why we will never be a powerhouse....Our FANS are happy with .500 ball........ PITIFUL!!!!!!!!!! 

Nowhere did I say I was hapy with 4-4 in the league each year.  What I did say is that a 4-4 football team is a pretty good team, probably top 30 in the country.  But of course that's not the goal.  I really don't think you'll find anyone who will say they are "happy" with 4-4.  But you can invent what you want to out of people's posts.

[hogsNbeer]

Here's the question dj, what have you seen that nobody else has seen in the last 8 years that makes you believe that NUTT can win 8 and 9 games a year..........an acceptable level as you call it.....I'd like to know....

The simple answer is that I've seen 8 and 9 win seasons here.  Exceptions being when we've either been replacing an inordinate amount of starters, or breaking in a new quarterback.  Although it isn't popular, I do discount the negatives of the previous 2 seasons.  When you lose what we lost after '03, and then you lose Matt Jones while those replacements are still relatively inexperienced, you're going to struggle.  All of this should have been overcome by recruiting; but buy the argument or not, '04 and '05 are when we were hurt most by the classes effected by the investigation.  I do believe it was a factor. 

I also think, as I said in my novel above, that the biggest "opportunity" (I don't like the word weakness) of the coaching staff has been addressed by the hiring of a play caller. 

Also, regarding the 8/9 season I said was acceptable.  We do have to find a way to win the ones that get away and stretch the 8/9 to 10/12.  That obvioulsy is the goal and one HDN's staff has yet to achieve.  To win 8 or 9 in this league though, is a good season.  That makes you 4-4 or 5-3 in the best league in the country.  The polls won't show it because they don't put 4 loss teams in the poll, but a 4-4 SEC team is a top 25-30 program.


So you are happy with 4-4 SEC Conf record each year.....Boy, you sure have low expectations....4-4 is .500 ball in SEC, nothing to jump up and down for........ Tell Florida, or LSU that 4-4 is ok and they'll LAUGH your A$$ right outta there........   This is why we will never be a powerhouse....Our FANS are happy with .500 ball........ PITIFUL!!!!!!!!!! 

Nowhere did I say I was hapy with 4-4 in the league each year.  What I did say is that a 4-4 football team is a pretty good team, probably top 30 in the country.  But of course that's not the goal.  I really don't think you'll find anyone who will say they are "happy" with 4-4.  But you can invent what you want to out of people's posts.

Not making anything up.... That's just the way I took it......Apologies...

[djgaffer]

It is funny how so many people talk about the fact that Butch Davis, who just happens to be an Arkansas boy and a former Razorback...and who just happens to live right down the road from the campus...and who has built a college program (Miami) that finished #2 in the polls one year, won the national championship the next, and lost in overtime in the BCS title game the year after that...and who Jimmy Johnson chose to coordinate the defense as he was building a virtual dynasty in Dallas...and who, according to account after account wants the job...is available almost in passing, as if they are talking about the local eighth grade coach.

It goes something like this..."Yeah, we could probably get Butch Davis.  But what other big time coach would want to come here?"

Easttex.. I'm just not sold on Mr. Davis as the answer.  I don't doubt he can coach.  He won at Miami.  That's not a short list.  and even with the state of the program, I promise you they had more talent than Rutgers and Temple among others in the weak East.  Then with equal talent, the NFL was not kind.

What I don't know is how today's 16 and 17 year olds perceive Butch.  I would imagine he's on the same level as an Al Groh or a Chan Gailey reputation-wise.  But if they truly believe that Butch is the man and that would lead to a bevy of recruits coming up on the hill, sign me up.  I just haven't bought it yet.