The worst coaching hire that altered the course of Hog history after Broyles

[Sivad]

Hiring Danny Ford was a mistake of EPIC proportions.

No, but firing him too soon was.

[WilsonHog]

In the context of Kenny Hatfield and JFB's influence, I come back to a story I was told about John Thompson. Houston Nutt interviewed Johnny for the DC job when he was still at Southern Miss. Most of his friends assumed he would take the job; he's an Arkansas boy who got his start as a volunteer on Lou Holtz's staff, and moving from DC at Southern Miss to DC at Arkansas would be a nice upgrade for anyone. He turned it down. He was uncomfortable in the interview, in which JFB asked more questions than Nutt did (which struck him as a little strange), and their defensive philosophy wasn't the same as his.

Coaches tend to have philosophies that they believe in; if they're going to ultimately be fired, they at least want to be fired doing what they believe in.

[Inhogswetrust]

In the context of Kenny Hatfield and JFB's influence, I come back to a story I was told about John Thompson. Houston Nutt interviewed Johnny for the DC job when he was still at Southern Miss. Most of his friends assumed he would take the job; he's an Arkansas boy who got his start as a volunteer on Lou Holtz's staff, and moving from DC at Southern Miss to DC at Arkansas would be a nice upgrade for anyone. He turned it down. He was uncomfortable in the interview, in which JFB asked more questions than Nutt did (which struck him as a little strange), and their defensive philosophy wasn't the same as his.

Coaches tend to have philosophies that they believe in; if they're going to ultimately be fired, they at least want to be fired doing what they believe in.

Ironic in that he did indeed become our DC later.

[Wmhog]

Anytime you didn't hire Jimmy Johnoson, you made a huge error!

[thirrdegreetusker]

Passing on Johnson as HC was maybe Broyles largest mistake. 

Didn't JJ cause both Ok St and Miami to be put on NCAA probation?

[thirrdegreetusker]

The oddest thing to me was that JFB was telling Hatfield that he needed to make changes in his staff (if true) when Hatfield had just won back to back SWC Championships (88-89). The last time that had been done prior to that time was 64-65 under JFB. I could see where a HC who had just done that would wonder what he needed to do to gain the respect for his decisions from his AD.

One of the hardest things in life is to see the flaws even when things appear to be going well. And people REALLY do not like to hear it, even if you turn out to be absolutely right.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Hatfield -- agree he helped set up Razorback football for decline -- but in my view, the real mistake was panic-hiring Jack Crowe to replace Hatfield. This showed a gross misunderstanding of the situation. Wholly irrational. Arkansas could have gotten a great young coach.

In theory, yes. In reality, NSD was REAL close, and a hire had to be made, quick. What "great young coach" does not have a solid job the week before NSD?

[Biggus Piggus]

In theory, yes. In reality, NSD was REAL close, and a hire had to be made, quick. What "great young coach" does not have a solid job the week before NSD?

No. That IS the fallacy. There was no great recruiting class to save. And it would be easier to hire after vs. immediately prior to signing day. Tremendously easier.  Nobody on earth would jeopardize his current recruiting class by giving Arkansas the time of day right before signing day. Plenty would have been willing to talk afterwards. Including better assistants. Broyles already was planning to break his own rule and hire a first-time head coach. Might as well consider the best available. No. It was a bad idea all around to promote Crowe.

[Inhogswetrust]

The fact that with the with the exception of one year, the program floundered badly under Ford backs up my point. He was a pretty good recruiter but a bad coach and thus, a horrible hire. How do we know Kines wouldn't have done better???

There you go using HINDSIGHT again. It's very easy AFTER the fact to say what should have been done but at the time Ford had the better Resume' and it wasn't even close.

The same reason Ford should have been hired is the same reason Kenny was hired when people NOW say Jimmy should have been. At the time though Kenny had the better Resume'.As someone else has already mentioned there were some issues at OSU under Jimmy's tutelage and his W/L record was not as good as Kenny's at the time.

[thirrdegreetusker]

Agree, Holtz lost some really good recruits in his last few years. But, to answer your question about NFL draftees on roster when he left; Greg Lasker just finished eligibility, Bobby Joe Edmonds had more left, Steve Atwater and Wayne Matin were redshirting......

UA press guide says both Martin and Atwater lettered 85-88. That means they were freshmen under Hatfield in his first year,  1984. So, while Holtz staff may have started recruiting them, they both signed under Hatfield. They were never on campus when Lou was HC.

You are right about Lasker; my info was wrong. Lasker was already on campus when KH got here. And Edmonds played two years for KH, so I was wrong there, too.

[JaketheSnake]

How many people marry the first person they date?   Sometimes a pretty woman turns out to be waaaaaay too nuts or skanky. 

[Inhogswetrust]

How many people marry the first person they date?   Sometimes a pretty woman turns out to be waaaaaay too nuts or skanky. 

Doesn't that describe all women?

P.S. Good thing my wife isn't here to see this post!

[thirrdegreetusker]

And it would be easier to hire after vs. immediately prior to signing day. Tremendously easier.  Nobody on earth would jeopardize his current recruiting class by giving Arkansas the time of day right before signing day. Plenty would have been willing to talk afterwards. Including better assistants.

I agree with you on this. ^^^

[thirrdegreetusker]

One last word on JJ. He was Miami's coach from 1984 to 1988. His NC was in '87.

From Wiki:

The Miami Herald reported that 2 Live Crew member Luther Campbell and several NFL players had offered a "pay-for-play" system from 1986 through 1992, giving cash rewards for acts such as scoring touchdowns and big hits. This allegation was verified in the subsequent NCAA investigation, which also found that the "head football coach and the associate director of athletics for compliance and internal operations were aware" of the payments.

[Been10Hog]

Didn't JJ cause both Ok St and Miami to be put on NCAA probation?

And, how many times did JJ beat OU while at OSU? He did fine when he had better talent than the teams he played at Miami and mid ninetys Cowboys. Hatfield did beat Texas when he had inferior talent. He did beat Notre Dame in consecutive years when he had inferior talent at Air Force. Heck, even Barry Switzer walked into the talent laden Cowboys and went to a NFC Championship game then won the Super Bowl the next.

Sign of a good coach is one who can win with players not as talented as their opponent. When did Jimmy Johnson or Barry Switzer EVER do that!

[LZH]

I do agree that Frank "meddled" a little too much.

Oh man, folks my dad's age couldn't stand Frank after he retired from coaching.  "Meddling"......that's how I learned what that word meant - from my dad and his buddies, not from school.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

It's not the same sport but Frank Broyles hiring the dufus Jon Pelphrey is by far the worst Razorback hire of all time

[carolinahogger]

Most of what has been discussed has hinged more on who was missed out on rather than who was hired.  Hatfield was a good man and a decent coach, although I was not a fan of his offense.

I don't know how anyone could consider him to be a truly bad hire.  Average in some respects?  Maybe, and yes I am familiar with his W-L record.

I opine that Nutt was the most disastrous hire.  The guy is as dumb as a box of rocks and led the program into a steady decline.  Weak resume, but won with Ford's players, incredibly lucky in getting some freak in state talent that prolonged his stay: Matt Jones, McFadden, Hillis, etc.  I am convinced that the fact that he is a native of Arkansas and a schmoozer are what allowed him to stay so long.

[WizardofhOgZ]

I gotta go Hatfield over Johnson... After Holtz left we were loaded. Johnson could have gotten us another couple of Natty's I truly believe...

What would it have been like if Broyles had hired Jimmy Johnson when he wanted to coach at Arkansas???

Anytime you didn't hire Jimmy Johnoson, you made a huge error!

The reason Johnson did not get the job was his track record of playing fast and loose with the rules.  While he was an assistant at Arkansas, Frank saw this first hand when JJ got us in some trouble over a QB (Rod Gerald of South Oak Cliff, who ended up at Ohio State), and then watched as JJ succeeded in raising the level of play at Oklahoma State, but also succeeded in getting them place on probation after he left (a pattern that continued after Johnson left Miami in 1988).

Broyles was many things, but a cheater is not one of them.  And he didn't want to expose the Razorback program to probation.  The OU's and Miami's of the world can survive that sort of thing, but we would have been devastated.  Look what happened to SMU.

[ballz2thewall]

quite honestly, none of the "failures" were truly of their own making or so clear cut so-as-to call them an obvious disaster hire.

all things considered i'd say houston nutt and lou holtz had the best shots as new hires, given the roster and team mood at the time they took the helm.  this is about the best judgment i can make, so i guess the negative inferences are wide open.

too; we need to bear in mind that we've only really started maturing in recruiting. other teams are/were waaay ahead of us in that department. "ahead" in terms of recruiting effort.

[Mike Irwin]

It's not the same sport but Frank Broyles hiring the dufus Jon Pelphrey is by far the worst Razorback hire of all time

Frank did not hire Pelphrey. John White did on recommendation from a private search firm which he contracted at a cost of $90,000.

[redeye]

One of the hardest things in life is to see the flaws even when things appear to be going well. And people REALLY do not like to hear it, even if you turn out to be absolutely right.

True.  Although, an even harder thing is being forced to sign on to something you disagree about, when it's your reputation that's on the line.  Broyles may have had great ideas, but if you disagreed with them and it was your neck on the line, would you go along?  If a team struggles, the AD is criticized for picking the wrong coach, but the coach receives blame for failing on the field. 

[redeye]

I find it interesting that Crowe and JLS were both poor solutions to the same problem.  There probably wasn't a good solution for either, but I think hiring a temp makes more sense, although I wish it had been someone other then JLS.  That's why I consider all the criticism for JLS undeserved, but I don't see how that can be said about Crowe.  So, I have to hand it to Jeff Long for not obligating himself, and Arkansas, to a hasty long-term hire, like Broyles did with Crowe.

[GuvHog]

There you go using HINDSIGHT again. It's very easy AFTER the fact to say what should have been done but at the time Ford had the better Resume' and it wasn't even close.

The same reason Ford should have been hired is the same reason Kenny was hired when people NOW say Jimmy should have been. At the time though Kenny had the better Resume'.As someone else has already mentioned there were some issues at OSU under Jimmy's tutelage and his W/L record was not as good as Kenny's at the time.

I'm not using hind sight at all. An interim Head Coach who leads a virtually depleted Hog team to an upset of a ranked Tennessee team in Knoxville deserves at least another year as Head Coach. Danny Ford did have some good years at Clemson but the majority of them were with the previous coach's players.

[pheine78]

I gotta go Hatfield over Johnson... After Holtz left we were loaded. Johnson could have gotten us another couple of Natty's I truly believe...

100% agree.  Is this even a question?  How close were we to hiring Johnson BTW?  This should be a big regret...he wasn't just a good coach, he was an innovator that changed football.  I say this while I hate the Miami Hurricanes and the Cowboys. 

[bigbadhog]

The reason Johnson did not get the job was his track record of playing fast and loose with the rules.  While he was an assistant at Arkansas, Frank saw this first hand when JJ got us in some trouble over a QB (Rod Gerald of South Oak Cliff, who ended up at Ohio State), and then watched as JJ succeeded in raising the level of play at Oklahoma State, but also succeeded in getting them place on probation after he left (a pattern that continued after Johnson left Miami in 1988).

Broyles was many things, but a cheater is not one of them.  And he didn't want to expose the Razorback program to probation.  The OU's and Miami's of the world can survive that sort of thing, but we would have been devastated.  Look what happened to SMU.

Broyles allowed his friend herrod to pay players so he wasn't quite as ethical as you make him out to be...

[GuvHog]

I find it interesting that Crowe and JLS were both poor solutions to the same problem.  There probably wasn't a good solution for either, but I think hiring a temp makes more sense, although I wish it had been someone other then JLS.  That's why I consider all the criticism for JLS undeserved, but I don't see how that can be said about Crowe.  So, I have to hand it to Jeff Long for not obligating himself, and Arkansas, to a hasty long-term hire, like Broyles did with Crowe.

The timing of BP's firing was horrible. Firing a head coach that late in the year leaves no choice but to hire an interim and basically throw away the next 2 seasons which is exactly what happened. The program was so badly damaged by that ill timed firing that it took Bielema almost 2 years to show signs that he was turning things around.

[Wildhog]

The timing of BP's firing accident was horrible. Firing a head coach Getting busted in a sex scandal and lying to everyone about it on national television that late in the year leaves no choice but to hire an interim and basically throw away the next 2 seasons which is exactly what happened. The program was so badly damaged that it took Bielema almost 2 years to show signs that he was turning things around.

Fixed your post.

[Biggus Piggus]

Broyles allowed his friend herrod to pay players so he wasn't quite as ethical as you make him out to be...

Yeah. I don't know how you could say Johnson was too dirty. He had already coached at Arkansas under Broyles. The guy knew how to operate in that environment. Would he have been half as good as he was when cheating at Miami? That is the real question.

[Bacons Rebellion]

I'm not using hind sight at all. An interim Head Coach who leads a virtually depleted Hog team to an upset of a ranked Tennessee team in Knoxville deserves at least another year as Head Coach. Danny Ford did have some good years at Clemson but the majority of them were with the previous coach's players.

The Tennessee win was nice, but we went 1-3-1 after the Tennessee win, beating only a 1-9 LSU team (worst LSU team ever). We lost to SMU by 5 and Miss St. by 7. If we had won those two, I think Kines might have gotten the job.

[hoggusamoungus]

100% agree.  Is this even a question?  How close were we to hiring Johnson BTW?  This should be a big regret...he wasn't just a good coach, he was an innovator that changed football.  I say this while I hate the Miami Hurricanes and the Cowboys.

If he was so innovative, why did he go .500 in a conference in which he got to play Kansas, Iowa State, pre-Bill Snyder Kansas State and pre-Bill McCartney Colorado every year?

[GuvHog]

Fixed your post.

I'm not arguing the reasons for firing him, I've changed my mind on that. Long had good reasons to fire BP but whether you'll admit it or not, the timing of the firing was horrible.

[GuvHog]

The Tennessee win was nice, but we went 1-3-1 after the Tennessee win, beating only a 1-9 LSU team (worst LSU team ever). We lost to SMU by 5 and Miss St. by 7. If we had won those two, I think Kines might have gotten the job.

Kines should have gotten the job, he did as well as could be expected using Crowe's and Hatfield's  players.

[Wildhog]

I'm not arguing the reasons for firing him, I've changed my mind on that. Long had good reasons to fire BP but whether you'll admit it or not, the timing of the firing was horrible.

When was he supposed to fire him, Guv?

[WizardofhOgZ]

Broyles allowed his friend herrod to pay players so he wasn't quite as ethical as you make him out to be...

Yeah. I don't know how you could say Johnson was too dirty. He had already coached at Arkansas under Broyles. The guy knew how to operate in that environment. Would he have been half as good as he was when cheating at Miami? That is the real question.

Hold on a minute.  I'm not sure Broyles "allowed" Herrod to do what he did.  Did Frank know that Herrod was hiring players during the off-season?  Sure.  Did he know that he was allowing them to earn money that was (a) higher than other non-athletes doing the same job; or (b) paying them padded hours?  Don't know that you or I know the answer to that one.  Is it plausible that he (JFB) didn't know A or B?  Sure it is.  And much more consistent with his history than believing the alternative.

As for BP's comments, I've already acknowledged that Frank had seen the "fruits" of Jimmy's questionable recruiting practices, which is why he WOULD NOT want to risk having Jimmy come back as the head guy.  Hard to see why having "seen" him in action would have made Frank comfortable turning over the keys to JJ.

How can I say he was dirty?  Just look at what happened at OSU and Miami after he left.  And, the slap on the hand Arkansas got for JJ's recruitment of Gerald while he was on Frank's staff.  Your comments just don't make sense, Biggus.

[bigbadhog]

If he was so innovative, why did he go .500 in a conference in which he got to play Kansas, Iowa State, pre-Bill Snyder Kansas State and pre-Bill McCartney Colorado every year?

Were you at WMS for the great revenge game?   JJ put it on Hatfield and broyles in as dominating a performance as I have ever witnessed.  38-0 at the half and could have been worse.  JJ and KH were not only in different leagues, they were different species and it was proven on the field.  Also, if I am not mistaken, It was a top 10 matchup which made it more embarrassing.  BeAno cook pick the Razorbacks to win...

[bigbadhog]

Yeah. I don't know how you could say Johnson was too dirty. He had already coached at Arkansas under Broyles. The guy knew how to operate in that environment. Would he have been half as good as he was when cheating at Miami? That is the real question.


Hold on a minute.  I'm not sure Broyles "allowed" Herrod to do what he did.  Did Frank know that Herrod was hiring players during the off-season?  Sure.  Did he know that he was allowing them to earn money that was (a) higher than other non-athletes doing the same job; or (b) paying them padded hours?  Don't know that you or I know the answer to that one.  Is it plausible that he (JFB) didn't know A or B?  Sure it is.  And much more consistent with his history than believing the alternative.

As for BP's comments, I've already acknowledged that Frank had seen the "fruits" of Jimmy's questionable recruiting practices, which is why he WOULD NOT want to risk having Jimmy come back as the head guy.  Hard to see why having "seen" him in action would have made Frank comfortable turning over the keys to JJ.

How can I say he was dirty?  Just look at what happened at OSU and Miami after he left.  And, the slap on the hand Arkansas got for JJ's recruitment of Gerald while he was on Frank's staff.  Your comments just don't make sense, Biggus.

Don't pretend to be naive about what CJFB knew...

[hoggusamoungus]

Were you at WMS for the great revenge game?   JJ put it on Hatfield and broyles in as dominating a performance as I have ever witnessed.  38-0 at the half and could have been worse.  JJ and KH were not only in different leagues, they were different species and it was proven on the field.  Also, if I am not mistaken, It was a top 10 matchup which made it more embarrassing.  BeAno cook pick the Razorbacks to win...

What's that got to do with his mediocre record in a weak Big 8?  Sure, he won big at Miami but so did Howard Schnellenberger, Dennis Erickson and Larry Coker.

[TheRazorbackGuy]

Frank did not hire Pelphrey. John White did on recommendation from a private search firm which he contracted at a cost of $90,000.

MikeIrwin, that was a bad investment for Jon White

[Acehawg]

Haven't read any posts in this thread.  It was Crowe obviously.  He wasn't ready to be a head coach. 

[bigbadhog]

What's that got to do with his mediocre record in a weak Big 8?  Sure, he won big at Miami but so did Howard Schnellenberger, Dennis Erickson and Larry Coker.

Looked pretty innovative to me that day vs the opposite (hatfield)...

[bphi11ips]

Yeah. I don't know how you could say Johnson was too dirty. He had already coached at Arkansas under Broyles. The guy knew how to operate in that environment. Would he have been half as good as he was when cheating at Miami? That is the real question.


Hold on a minute.  I'm not sure Broyles "allowed" Herrod to do what he did.  Did Frank know that Herrod was hiring players during the off-season?  Sure.  Did he know that he was allowing them to earn money that was (a) higher than other non-athletes doing the same job; or (b) paying them padded hours?  Don't know that you or I know the answer to that one.  Is it plausible that he (JFB) didn't know A or B?  Sure it is.  And much more consistent with his history than believing the alternative.

As for BP's comments, I've already acknowledged that Frank had seen the "fruits" of Jimmy's questionable recruiting practices, which is why he WOULD NOT want to risk having Jimmy come back as the head guy.  Hard to see why having "seen" him in action would have made Frank comfortable turning over the keys to JJ.

How can I say he was dirty?  Just look at what happened at OSU and Miami after he left.  And, the slap on the hand Arkansas got for JJ's recruitment of Gerald while he was on Frank's staff.  Your comments just don't make sense, Biggus.

Good post, Wizard.  Not sure Biggus meant what he seemed to say.  Broyles understood that recruiting is the lifeblood of a college football program.  That's the reason he coveted a one-team state job like Arkansas.  Broyles has his faults, but SWC/SEC caliber cheating is not something he would tolerate, much less encourage.

[Inhogswetrust]

I'm not using hind sight at all. An interim Head Coach who leads a virtually depleted Hog team to an upset of a ranked Tennessee team in Knoxville deserves at least another year as Head Coach. Danny Ford did have some good years at Clemson but the majority of them were with the previous coach's players.

Come on Gov you know that is WRONG about winning mostly with the previous coaches players:

Year   Team   Overall   Conference   Standing   Bowl/playoffs   Coaches#   AP°
Clemson Tigers (Atlantic Coast Conference) (1978–1989)
1978   Clemson   1–0[n 1]   [n 1]   [n 1]   W Gator   7   6
1979   Clemson   8–4   4–2   T–2nd   L Peach      
1980   Clemson   6–5   2–4   T–4th         
1981   Clemson   12–0   6–0   1st   W Orange   1   1
1982   Clemson   9–1–1   6–0   1st         8
1983   Clemson   9–1–1   7–0   1st         11
1984   Clemson   7–4   5–2   2nd         
1985   Clemson   6–6   4–3   4th   L Independence      
1986   Clemson   8–2–2   5–1–1   1st   W Gator   19   17
1987   Clemson   10–2   6–1   1st   W Citrus   10   12
1988   Clemson   10–2   6–1   1st   W Citrus   8   9
1989   Clemson   10–2   5–2   3rd   W Gator   11   12
Clemson:   96–29–4   56–16–1   

Why would anybody with even half a brain hire an interim with a 3-5-1 record over this record. An interim does not deserve to be hired because of one upset win. Stop and think about WHO Kines called to come help as a "consultant". I liked Kines and still do. But to hire him over Ford would then would be dumb.

[BOAR_N2BWILD]

Hiring Gus over anybody would have been the single biggest mistake, but fortunately it didn't happen.

That would have damaged the university as a whole, not just the football program.

^^^^^ This +100

[BOAR_N2BWILD]

I don't think of Petrino as a mistake. Given the options of Grobe or Bowden. Petrino was a gift. The mistake was made by Petrino. He risked family, job, a career at an SEC school where he could have been a potential legend.

In my opinion, the biggest mistake was Crowe and the Hatfield over Jimmy Johnson. I am a fan of Hatfield but I think that Jimmy Johnson would have put us in the national spotlight - Just my opinion.

[redeye]

Don't pretend to be naive about what CJFB knew...

Does evidence exist to prove that CJFB knew?  If not, then he's not being naive at all.  I also doubt that CJFB knew.

[Inhogswetrust]

Broyles allowed his friend herrod to pay players so he wasn't quite as ethical as you make him out to be...

How do you know he "allowed" it. Broyles may not have know they were paid for work not done. It is fine to hire players in the summer. A lot of players work then. It is when they are given above and beyond what other employees when it is an NCAA problem. Boosters have been hiring players for decades in the summer.

[Mike Irwin]

How do you now he "allowed" it. Broyles may not have know they were paid for work not done. It is fine to hire players in the summer. A lot of players work then. It is when they are given above and beyond what other employees when it is an NCAA problem. Boosters have been hiring players for decades in the summer.

The Ted Herrod case was a a little bit of flame and a whole lot of smoke. It's been a while since I looked at the numbers but as I recall a handful of players got a few hundred dollars each in extra benefits.

The summer jobs program was widely abused all over the country. It was extremely difficult to monitor. A school would have to have supply a person to monitor each place of employment to make sure that its athletes were showing up for work, doing a job and working the exact hours they were paid for. That person would essentially have to spend every day watching each athlete on the job to know that his hours weren't being fudged.

Throw in the fact that J&H Trucking was almost 400 hundred miles from Fayetteville and it's not hard to see why the athletic department would not know the actual hours those five or six players were working.

This was NOT a major cheating scandal.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

How do you now he "allowed" it. Broyles may not have know they were paid for work not done. It is fine to hire players in the summer. A lot of players work then. It is when they are given above and beyond what other employees when it is an NCAA problem. Boosters have been hiring players for decades in the summer.

This happens. There was a QB by the name of Rhett Bomar at Oklahoma who was working at a automobile dealership in Norman who over the summer, would show up at the dealership, punch his timecard and then leave, coming back to punch his timecard out at the end of the day. Stoops and his staff said they didn't know that this was happening (and I believe them based on everything that came out) and the owner and GM of the dealership said they didn't know either (this I don't believe). The result was Bomar transferring to Sam Houston State to finish out his eligibility where he became their all-time passing leader (5,564 yds in 19 games). But this kind of thing happens everywhere, it is just that most either don't self report or get caught.

[popcornhog]

Hiring Gus over anybody would have been the single biggest mistake, but fortunately it didn't happen.

That would have damaged the university as a whole, not just the football program.

Please explain. I agree with the OP that Bielema is preferable to Gus, but how would Gus have damaged the UA as a whole?