Biggest What-Ifs in Hawgball History

[sadhogfan]

Bradley wouldn't start over Pate. Sunday wouldn't have signed had Corliss stayed. It would've been a fun team to watch

You're right about Pate.

Did Sunday hate Corliss or something? Back in the day when players routinely stayed 3+ years, I don't think one year of playing behind the best player in the SEC would have deterred him.

[cubsfan5150]

Sunday was a JUCO transfer right?  He wouldn't have wanted to sit.

[Hogimus Prime]

You're right about Pate.

Did Sunday hate Corliss or something? Back in the day when players routinely stayed 3+ years, I don't think one year of playing behind the best player in the SEC would have deterred him.

No Sunday didn't hate Corliss. He was juco had two years to play and didn't want to sit a year.

The scary thing was in the early signing period during the 94-95 season Nolan signed Hood, Bradley, Pate, Antwon Hall, Marcus Saxon and Kareem Poole. I remember hearing Bradley did not expect to play his freshman year cause of Scotty, Refgie Garrett, Pate and Hall. That team would've been deep and Nolan's ideal team.

[PonderinHog]

There was a three point arc in '78?

[Jborohog09]

No Sunday didn't hate Corliss. He was juco had two years to play and didn't want to sit a year.

The scary thing was in the early signing period during the 94-95 season Nolan signed Hood, Bradley, Pate, Antwon Hall, Marcus Saxon and Kareem Poole. I remember hearing Bradley did not expect to play his freshman year cause of Scotty, Refgie Garrett, Pate and Hall. That team would've been deep and Nolan's ideal team.

What was the deal with Reggie Garrett?  I know he got in Nolan's doghouse, but I don't know what for.

[sadhogfan]

No Sunday didn't hate Corliss. He was juco had two years to play and didn't want to sit a year.

Oh, duh. I had forgotten that.

[XavierZane]

Scotty stayed for the 1996 season. How good would that team have been?

This is my biggest what if, along with beating UCLA for the repeat.  Everything changes if the dominoes fall that way, and we might have been looking at a dynasty.   

[TheRazorback500]

What if we'd won the 8 games we lost this year by four or less? 22-6 and talking NCAA seeding around the coffee pot. 10-5 and tied for second in the SEC.

One can dream, I guess.

:razorback:

[Inhogswetrust]

What if Bob Heaton had been called for traveling since he did..............................

[razorbackfanatic]

If Nolan wasn't fired when he was, I think we get Mike Conley Jr and that means we we get Greg Oden.

[Atlhogfan1]

If Nolan wasn't fired when he was, I think we get Mike Conley Jr and that means we we get Greg Oden.

That is a dream of what could have been. 

But Conley, and Oden, didn't make it to college till the 2006-7 season.  Nolan was fired after the 01-02 season.  He would have had to have made it through 4 more seasons with Frank while trying to rebuild from the 01-02 season. 

[Hawg414]

That is a dream of what could have been. 

But Conley, and Oden, didn't make it to college till the 2006-7 season.  Nolan was fired after the 01-02 season.  He would have had to have made it through 4 more seasons with Frank while trying to rebuild from the 01-02 season. 

well.. but he would have had sullinger and iguodola during those years too.  then conley and oden.  as well as most likely little (big) sullinger to follow. 

[DOGALUM]

Olu Famutimi doesn't blow his knee out in HS.   All timer on the hill if he comes in health....IMO.

[The_Iceman]

Olu Famutimi doesn't blow his knee out in HS.   All timer on the hill if he comes in health....IMO.

He with Brewer and Modica at full health? Oh my.

[Atlhogfan1]

well.. but he would have had sullinger and iguodola during those years too.  then conley and oden.  as well as most likely little (big) sullinger to follow.

Please - no more of this Igoudala and Sullinger. 

[Pork Twain]

Please - no more of this Igoudala and Sullinger. 

I know...It hurts to think about the greatness that could have been

[Atlhogfan1]

I know...It hurts to think about the greatness that could have been

No.  Not greatness.  How would anyone equate Sullinger to greatness?  If he was greatness, Ky Madden should have his jersey hanging in the rafters. 

[Hawg414]

No.  Not greatness.  How would anyone equate Sullinger to greatness?  If he was greatness, Ky Madden should have his jersey hanging in the rafters. 

they werent greatness.  no one is arguing that.  but they werent as bad as what we had been getting the previous years either under the black cloud and the JUCO restrictions.  they were certainly good enough to have gotten nolan back in the game.  he had success with a helluva lot lesser caliber players. 

sullinger, iguodola, conley, oden, sullinger > lane, satchell, gomez, tatum, baker

[razorbackfanatic]

they werent greatness.  no one is arguing that.  but they werent as bad as what we had been getting the previous years either under the black cloud and the JUCO restrictions.  they were certainly good enough to have gotten nolan back in the game.  he had success with a helluva lot lesser caliber players. 

sullinger, iguodola, conley, oden, sullinger > lane, satchell, gomez, tatum, baker

Totally agree.

[Atlhogfan1]

they werent greatness.  no one is arguing that.  but they werent as bad as what we had been getting the previous years either under the black cloud and the JUCO restrictions.  they were certainly good enough to have gotten nolan back in the game.  he had success with a helluva lot lesser caliber players. 

sullinger, iguodola, conley, oden, sullinger > lane, satchell, gomez, tatum, baker

Back in what game?  Neither were as skilled of college players as Joe and Jannero.

You are taking players from 2001-2 through 2012 and comparing that to one group of Arkansas players.  Doesn't even make sense.

[The_Iceman]

No.  Not greatness.  How would anyone equate Sullinger to greatness?  If he was greatness, Ky Madden should have his jersey hanging in the rafters. 

Sullinger was good for about 10 pts and 6 rebs at Ohio State. Very consistent numbers during his 4 years in college. Could those numbers have been better if left in Nolan's system? Who knows.

[Atlhogfan1]

Sullinger was good for about 10 pts and 6 rebs at Ohio State. Very consistent numbers during his 4 years in college. Could those numbers have been better if left in Nolan's system? Who knows.

Why would they have been?  He had more turnovers than assists playing on better teams at a slower pace.  Why would he have been better at Arkansas?  He became a serviceable 3pt shooter and because of his size was always a good rebounding guard.  Role player.  That wasn't elevating those others to anything of achievement.  Some don't seem to get the difference between good role players and difference makers.  Would have thought Portis would have reminded them. 

[Hawg414]

back to the OP.  id agree that the implosion of the 96 recruiting class.. and the cloud that lingered from the investigation which returned damn near nothing.. had more of an adverse impact on us than anything.  if that class stays in tact.. and there is no cloud lingering over the next several classes.. i absolutely think we would have been reloaded for nolans 3rd "generation" of extreme success.  as it is, we became a "round of 32" type team.  and gradually slid from there. 

i also always wonder What If - nolan had remained just a basketball coach, with unmatched fire in his belly, instead of becoming a politician.  or an activist.  his focus shifted as his platform got bigger in his latter years.  had no problem with his message.. and respected him for it.  but his delivery was very unrefined.. and considerably detrimental.  he began drawing lines in the sand.

[Hawg414]

Back in what game?  Neither were as skilled of college players as Joe and Jannero.

You are taking players from 2001-2 through 2012 and comparing that to one group of Arkansas players.  Doesn't even make sense.

well, bc that one group of arkansas players are the players we had during the cloud and JUCO restrictions.  a 4 or 5 year strecth.  we know the types of players we had BEFORE that group... and the sullingers (both of em) and the odens and conleys and iguodolas are the type of players it is safe to assume we would have had AFTER that one group of arkansas players.  as it turned out, we never got the chance to rebound from that one group.  they were the end of the run.  and obviously it goes without saying there would have been other players along the way too, not just the few i have mentioned.  those are just the ones it is safe to assume we would have had.  and thats a pretty good starting point.

and to be fair.  few people.. from any team.. during any generation.. were as skilled as joe johnson. 

[jseinfeld50]

Give the remaining scholarship to the PG from Enid OK (Mark Price - twice AA, 12 yrs NBA, NBA All-Star a few) who really wanted to come instead of Cutts.

Cutts and Mills had they listened and let some upperclassmen (who volunteered) be their roommates and help them.

Michael Lloyd and Craig Tyson from Baltimore.

[Hawg414]

Give the remaining scholarship to the PG from Enid OK (Mark Price - twice AA, 12 yrs NBA, NBA All-Star a few) who really wanted to come instead of Cutts.

Cutts and Mills had they listened and let some upperclassmen (who volunteered) be their roommates and help them.

Michael Lloyd and Craig Tyson from Baltimore.

lloyd - didnt he originally sign in corliss' recruiting class?  woulda been with corliss, scotty, etc.  i know he ended up going to juco.. then either committed or possibly even resigned with us a 2nd time after juco.  yet ends up at syracuse.  i do remember he averaged something like 36 a game in juco.  although hard to argue with ending up with beck... IF thats the class lloyd was in. 

tyson - he was very highly touted.  blew his knee out 2 consecutive years in preseason practices.  dont think he ever even suited up for a game did he?

[Atlhogfan1]

well, bc that one group of arkansas players are the players we had during the cloud and JUCO restrictions.  a 4 or 5 year strecth.  we know the types of players we had BEFORE that group... and the sullingers (both of em) and the odens and conleys and iguodolas are the type of players it is safe to assume we would have had AFTER that one group of arkansas players.  as it turned out, we never got the chance to rebound from that one group.  they were the end of the run.  and obviously it goes without saying there would have been other players along the way too, not just the few i have mentioned.  those are just the ones it is safe to assume we would have had.  and thats a pretty good starting point.

and to be fair.  few people.. from any team.. during any generation.. were as skilled as joe johnson.

You are trying to get from '02 to 2010 when Jared Sullinger got to Oh St.  JJ Sullinger and Igoudala were not great college players.  I bring up Joe and Jannero as an illustration of two more skilled college players who didn't elevate our program.  JJ and Igoudala plus Modica would have had to have bridged the time till 2006 when Conley and Oden got to college.  Then you are assuming they would have come to Arkansas.  Then 3 more season in between their departures to the NBA and Jared.  It is a real stretch. 

The cloud and JC restrictions are excuses.  The friends and family plan + the low hanging fruit of undeveloped athletes had become the recruiting plan.  Sound familiar? 

[DeltaBoy]

Beating UCLA the 2nd time to go back to back would have settled a lot of the dust between Nolan and Frank.

[Hawg414]

You are trying to get from '02 to 2010 when Jared Sullinger got to Oh St.  JJ Sullinger and Igoudala were not great college players.  I bring up Joe and Jannero as an illustration of two more skilled college players who didn't elevate our program.  JJ and Igoudala plus Modica would have had to have bridged the time till 2006 when Conley and Oden got to college.  Then you are assuming they would have come to Arkansas.  Then 3 more season in between their departures to the NBA and Jared.  It is a real stretch. 

The cloud and JC restrictions are excuses.  The friends and family plan + the low hanging fruit of undeveloped athletes had become the recruiting plan.  Sound familiar? 

throughout the entire decade of the 90s, Arkansas was the winningest program in all of college basketball up until they got passed in the last year or two by, i think, kansas and duke.  and in all of that time, how many lottery picks did nolan have?  Day and Corliss that i can remember.  the building blocks to two different "generations" of success.  in fact, he didnt have many NBA draft picks period.  certainly not relative to the other top programs.  iguodola was also a lottery pick.  woulda been nolans 3rd.  in roughly 20 years of unprecedented success at UA.  its safe to say he would have been a nice player to have had. 

and im not implying all those guys from ohio st and arizona would have been on the same team at arkansas.  they would have been scattered across 8-9 years.  but they were solid building blocks.  and if you dont think that JJ, Iguodola and Modica could have gotten nolan thru to Conley and Oden.. and that Conley and Oden couldnt get him thru to little Sullinger... all with unknown additional pieces added to each group... then we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

we woulda had:
4 year run with mayberry, day, miller
3 year run with corliss, scotty, beck
3-4 year run with JJ, modica, iguodola
ONE year run with conley and oden.  haha
then jared sullinger following soon behind.

after roughly 20 years of success.. you dont think nolan could have withstood 2008 - 2010?

[The_Iceman]

You are trying to get from '02 to 2010 when Jared Sullinger got to Oh St.  JJ Sullinger and Igoudala were not great college players.  I bring up Joe and Jannero as an illustration of two more skilled college players who didn't elevate our program.  JJ and Igoudala plus Modica would have had to have bridged the time till 2006 when Conley and Oden got to college.  Then you are assuming they would have come to Arkansas.  Then 3 more season in between their departures to the NBA and Jared.  It is a real stretch. 

The cloud and JC restrictions are excuses.  The friends and family plan + the low hanging fruit of undeveloped athletes had become the recruiting plan.  Sound familiar? 

Getting Demario Eddins to campus was just as big or bigger than JJ and Iggy.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demario-eddins-1.html

Also, Wen Mukubu really developed under Mike at UAB.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/wen-mukubu-1.html

[Atlhogfan1]

throughout the entire decade of the 90s, Arkansas was the winningest program in all of college basketball up until they got passed in the last year or two by, i think, kansas and duke.  and in all of that time, how many lottery picks did nolan have?  Day and Corliss that i can remember.  the building blocks to two different "generations" of success.  in fact, he didnt have many NBA draft picks period.  certainly not relative to the other top programs.  iguodola was also a lottery pick.  its safe to say he would have been a nice player to have had. 

and im not implying all those guys from ohio st and arizona would have been on the same team at arkansas.  they would have been scattered across 8-9 years.  but they were solid building blocks.  and if you dont think that JJ, Iguodola and Modica could have gotten nolan thru to Conley and Oden.. and that Conley and Oden couldnt get him thru to little Sullinger... all with unknown additional pieces added to each group... then we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

we woulda had a 4 year run with mayberry, day, miller
a 3 year run with corliss, scotty, beck
a 3-4 year run with JJ, modica, iguodola
1 ONE year run with conley and oden.  haha
then jared sullinger following soon behind.

after roughly 20 years of success.. you dont think nolan could have withstood 2008 - 2010?

We will have to agree to disagree as what you are proposing is a real stretch. 

Nolan had multiple McD AA on every team in the 90s except one (93 with only Corliss). 

A draft profile for Igoudala:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/andre-iguodala

Igoudala was an even worse shooter than Sullinger.  Would have been fun to watch on the defensive end and in transition. 

Getting Demario Eddins to campus was just as big or bigger than JJ and Iggy.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demario-eddins-1.html

Also, Wen Mukubu really developed under Mike at UAB.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/wen-mukubu-1.html

Eddins wasn't getting into Arkansas.  Part of those recruiting issues where Nolan and Mike weren't helping themselves.  Also was a reason Mike could win at UAB. 

Mukubu thrived at a mid major.  So did Alandise Harris.  Mike is a perfect coach for those types of programs. 

[Atlhogfan1]

While you are dreaming, assume Demare Carroll, the Presseys and Laurence Bowers would have been between Conley/Oden and lil Sullinger.  Assuming Mike had not gotten a job elsewhere or they would have chosen Nolan over Mike except Carrroll. 

[go hogues]

What are some of the things that just bug you when thinking about Razorback Basketball history? Those things that if they just would have (or not) happened, this entire program may be in a different spot. A few that come to mind for me:

1) The 1996 Recruiting Class

2) Chris Jefferies Transfering. (He and Joe Johnson on the same team? Wow.)

3) Not beating UCLA to make it back-to-back

4) Hiring Stan Heath instead of Bill Self.


Any one of those things not happening could have changed the direction of our program. What one event in our history would you most want to change?

We have way too many of these - in all our sports. So many times we've been so close to elite but have choked greatness away.

[Frontrowhog]

Mizzou to have stopped the ball vs UCLA in the NCAAT. 

I don't think this can be stated enough. The Mizzou guy could have at least attempted to stop the ball and make Edney take a jump shot. If Arkansas plays anyone else in the title game Corliss and Scotty probably wouldn't have gone 5-25 from the field and Arkansas probably would have won back-to-back titles.

[jjdlc]

What if the mess at the end of Nolan's tenure not happened, what if he had retired on his own terms?  When would he have retired?  Would he have made it to 65? 70? It's hard to believe he would still be coaching at this point.  Who would have succeeded him had there not been the black cloud.  Would CMA have gotten a shot at the reigns having never been a HC?  Only thing I feel confident about, is the program most likely would not have fell into obscurity for 15+ years.

[bigyellowdog]

Keith Lee spurns Tiger High money to come play for the Hogs?
Willie Cutts can stay clean?  This was probably the start of the issues with Crawford which continues to haunt us to this day.
Joe Johnson comes back for one more season?
Never made a back door deal with Billy Clyde?
Never talked to Dana Altman?

[Inhogswetrust]

Beating UCLA the 2nd time to go back to back would have settled a lot of the dust between Nolan and Frank.

No it wouldn't have. It was a long 7 years later when he was fired. IF everything had still happened as it did if they had won that game it would not have mattered seven years later. 

[pignparadise]

Eddie Sutton offering Mark Price instead of Willie Cutts. I lived in Enid at the time, played pickup ball at the Y with Mark and his family. He wanted to go to Arkansas but Eddie didn't want to take two guards.

[Jackrabbit Hog]

Steve Schall doesn't get called for over the back on a missed free throw and fouls out in the last 5 minutes of a back-and-forth game with Kentucky in the Nat'l Semis in '78.  Ticky-tack call and they dominated inside the last couple of minutes to win.  If that Triplets team wins it all, well...

[MikePiazza]

No it wouldn't have. It was a long 7 years later when he was fired. IF everything had still happened as it did if they had won that game it would not have mattered seven years later.

A win in that game sets out a way different set of dominoes than the loss did.

[ChicoHog]

If Scotty Thurman had not been off against UCLA or if Ed O'Bannon and Toby Bailey hadn't had the games of their lives. 

Or if we didn't choke away a lead!  That was a frustrating game like many hog games where we struggled keeping a lead because of risky play.  Still 2 awesome seasons and one Championship is pretty darn good. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Eddie Sutton offering Mark Price instead of Willie Cutts. I lived in Enid at the time, played pickup ball at the Y with Mark and his family. He wanted to go to Arkansas but Eddie didn't want to take two guards.

Cutts had game as well. Unfortunately he had other stuff also..............................

[MikePiazza]

I heard Cutts showed up Eddie in a game one time.

[TexHog188]

The tripping non call and the subsequent traveling call on US Reed vs Indiana State in 1979.  Moncrief was a bad man on d that day.  NCAA wanted Magic vs Bird and they got it.

[Pigasaurus]

Or if we didn't choke away a lead!  That was a frustrating game like many hog games where we struggled keeping a lead because of risky play.  Still 2 awesome seasons and one Championship is pretty darn good. 

I remember UCLA big man riding Corliss like the KY derby.  No calls

[LouisHog]

How has no one said Dana Altman?

If anyone did, sorry I missed it but we'd probably be in pretty darn good shape with him. He was weird but he could coach.

[yraciv]

1.  What if Jason Henry wasn't a thug and lasted in college more than a year?
2. What if Matt Jones decided he'd rather play college basketball?
3.  What if Stan Heath coached the 07/08 team he recruited?
4. What if Nolan hadn't gone to that press conference?
5. Why did Nate Rakestraw not play more?   

I've got 90s whatifs too, but my questions are designed to get to the root of what the hell has happened to this program post Nolan.

[LouisHog]

I've got 90s whatifs too, but my questions are designed to get to the root of what the hell has happened to this program post Nolan.

It's called a curse. And it's real.

[yraciv]

How has no one said Dana Altman?

If anyone did, sorry I missed it but we'd probably be in pretty darn good shape with him. He was weird but he could coach.

#9 in the country currently, at a non basketball school like Oregon. He certainly would have us dancing consistently.

[Foshodo]

Marshawn Powell walking the walk even remotely close to how much he talked the talk...