Where Has the Defense Gone?

[WilsonHog]

Defense is what I miss the most.

I grew up watching Eddie Sutton's teams, and Sutton preached the three D's: Discipline, Dedication, and Defense. Year in and year out, players like Sidney Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, and Darrell Walker filled the passing lanes and threw down dunk after dunk. 

Then Nolan came in and his teams turned up the heat even more. We got after your ass, plain and simple.

Take a look at single-season and career steals leaders. Other than Ronnie Brewer, Jr., the most recent player to finish his career in the Top Ten in steals was T.J. Cleveland in 2002. The most recent player other than Brewer to post a single-season mark worthy of a top ten spot was Clint McDaniel in 1995. Every player other than Brewer played for either Eddie Sutton or Nolan Richardson.     

Missouri plays the kind of defense we used to, Auburn too. I'm sure there are others.

What happened to the Arkansas basketball "franchise?" 

I would love to know what guys like Moncrief, Robertson, Walker, and McDaniel thought when they watched us play defense this season. 

[midwestcityhog]

the change of the hand check rule, plain and simple.

when the rules committee for the ncaa decided you can't put your hand on the offensive player as he's backing into you, dribbling by you, etc., it made it MUCH harder to get steals and much easier to foul.  nolan (and mike's) 'hack' was dead.   

obviously more recent times defensive woes have been because of personnel: the lack of big men under stan's first three years allowed us to get creamed on the boards, the lack of depth or a genuine second rotation under pel's seecond year makes us play zone defense instead of pel's prefereed man-to-man (so we give up a jillion three's a game).  add to that our starting guards were both under 6 feet and midgets (thanks pbeverley) so the opponent 3 is much easier

i agree, i like the tough pound'em defense.  but as for 2009, you and i both know we didnt have the size to be defense down low, or the personnel to be good at defense for 40 minutes.  heck, mike washington was only 6'9" and thats a stretch.  look at auburn tonight on raycom -- those koveortney barber types are beasts.

however, we have had flashes of defense.  weems was pretty good at steals in the conference standings, i do believe.   perhaps one of the reasons why "no top ten steal getters from 2002-2009" could be the fact that we stunk so bad, we only played about 28 games a year under stan, where under nolan in the good years we'd be playing 35+ or so (those extra sec tourney and ncaa games add up over a career). 

i think the 'franchise' got killed with the hand check, and the jury is still out to see if pel can bring it back when he has a full slate of players to actually play man-to-man.  im excited for 2010 because of the defensive potential alone, i'd like to see us as a run and gun team that presses, and i think by adding 3/4 more guys we can start that up.

i agree though, as bad as a coach as bruce pearl is ( i know there are guys on here that say he chokes all the time and i gotta agree, tho im no hater like some of em haha ) at least their 'inbounds press' gets a few steals a game.  i wish we did that at least.   hopefully 2010 we can switch out of the awful zone.

[deshahawg]

Out the window.

[IronHog]

It is almost a necessity to have long swing players to play really good D in today's game.

[Hoggy1]

It is almost a necessity to have long swing players to play really good D in today's game.

Agree.  And with all the parity in sports today, a couple of 6'3-6'5 swingmen shouldn't be that hard to come by.

[IronHog]

Agree.  And with all the parity in sports today, a couple of 6'3-6'5 swingmen shouldn't be that hard to come by.

They are the reason that players like Clarke now play mostly in non-power conferences.

Guys like Brewer or Weems did not necessarily have superior skills, but they can get a shot off, get a hand up, and double down on the post.

Ironically, the 3 point line made the really good long range shooter a rarity in high D1 ball.

[threeNout]

The lack of defense was the single most disappointing thing to me this year.

I think the problem was just a lack of depth, specifically at guard. Those long swingmen, like mentioned earlier, would help, someone like Henry who hardly played.

I haven't seen any stats on steals, blocks and charges taken, but I bet all 3 were way down this year compared to the last 10.

I bet Nolan wouldn't give his analysis publically, because he doesn't want to  be seen as criticizing the new coach, but I'd be interested in hearing what he had to say about it.

[IronHog]

The lack of defense was the single most disappointing thing to me this year.

I think the problem was just a lack of depth, specifically at guard. Those long swingmen, like mentioned earlier, would help, someone like Henry who hardly played.

I haven't seen any stats on steals, blocks and charges taken, but I bet all 3 were way down this year compared to the last 10.

I bet Nolan wouldn't give his analysis publically, because he doesn't want to  be seen as criticizing the new coach, but I'd be interested in hearing what he had to say about it.

Most any team can play decent defense if they:

Know how

WANT TO!



I'm not sure this team knew how or wanted to.......

[thirtythree]

the change of the hand check rule, plain and simple.

when the rules committee for the ncaa decided you can't put your hand on the offensive player as he's backing into you, dribbling by you, etc., it made it MUCH harder to get steals and much easier to foul.  nolan (and mike's) 'hack' was dead.   

obviously more recent times defensive woes have been because of personnel: the lack of big men under stan's first three years allowed us to get creamed on the boards, the lack of depth or a genuine second rotation under pel's seecond year makes us play zone defense instead of pel's prefereed man-to-man (so we give up a jillion three's a game).  add to that our starting guards were both under 6 feet and midgets (thanks pbeverley) so the opponent 3 is much easier

i agree, i like the tough pound'em defense.  but as for 2009, you and i both know we didnt have the size to be defense down low, or the personnel to be good at defense for 40 minutes.  heck, mike washington was only 6'9" and thats a stretch.  look at auburn tonight on raycom -- those koveortney barber types are beasts.

however, we have had flashes of defense.  weems was pretty good at steals in the conference standings, i do believe.   perhaps one of the reasons why "no top ten steal getters from 2002-2009" could be the fact that we stunk so bad, we only played about 28 games a year under stan, where under nolan in the good years we'd be playing 35+ or so (those extra sec tourney and ncaa games add up over a career). 

i think the 'franchise' got killed with the hand check, and the jury is still out to see if pel can bring it back when he has a full slate of players to actually play man-to-man.  im excited for 2010 because of the defensive potential alone, i'd like to see us as a run and gun team that presses, and i think by adding 3/4 more guys we can start that up.

i agree though, as bad as a coach as bruce pearl is ( i know there are guys on here that say he chokes all the time and i gotta agree, tho im no hater like some of em haha ) at least their 'inbounds press' gets a few steals a game.  i wish we did that at least.   hopefully 2010 we can switch out of the awful zone.

I agree. The hand check enabled defenders to close the space the offensive player had to make quicker moves either way. Now they have spave to do about whatever. The really good officals still let some of it go as long as it doesn't get too bad. Those are the games I like to watch.

[want2be]

Mizzou still plays it, so the concept is far from dead

Pel would play it more if he had the right PLAYERS and DEPTH. The few time our defense pressed this year it helped our scoring.

Look how many turmovers we gave up against Florida's half court trap press

Having so many short guards is not helping matters for us either

[HognotinMemphis]

Where has the defense gone? Same place the good FT shooting went I guess. If you find one, you'll probably find the other hiding there too.

Too many lazy players who want to do nothing but shoot from 3 range or dunk it. Like a baseball player who doesn't want to do anything but hit.

[HognotinMemphis]

Defense is what I miss the most.

I grew up watching Eddie Sutton's teams, and Sutton preached the three D's: Discipline, Dedication, and Defense. Year in and year out, players like Sidney Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, and Darrell Walker filled the passing lanes and threw down dunk after dunk. 

Then Nolan came in and his teams turned up the heat even more. We got after your ass, plain and simple.

Take a look at single-season and career steals leaders. Other than Ronnie Brewer, Jr., the most recent player to finish his career in the Top Ten in steals was T.J. Cleveland in 2002. The most recent player other than Brewer to post a single-season mark worthy of a top ten spot was Clint McDaniel in 1995. Every player other than Brewer played for either Eddie Sutton or Nolan Richardson.     

Missouri plays the kind of defense we used to, Auburn too. I'm sure there are others.

What happened to the Arkansas basketball "franchise?" 

I would love to know what guys like Moncrief, Robertson, Walker, and McDaniel thought when they watched us play defense this season.

Another thing: Pelphrey ain't no Sutton or Richardson. It's coaching as much or more than it is the players. If the coach demands defense like Sutton and Richardson did, they get it or the player is not on the court. Pel doesn't ask this of his players...plain and simple there.

[WilsonHog]

I haven't seen any stats on steals, blocks and charges taken, but I bet all 3 were way down this year compared to the last 10.

Well, I can tell you this.

The range of steals in the list of players in the single-season steals record book is from 82 to 102.

Our leader this year was Fortson - with 33, an average of 1.13 per game.

Going back to 1977-78, that was the second-lowest season-leading mark in school history, eclipsed only by Byron Irvin's 31 steals in 1985-86 (when he averaged 1.11 per game).

As far as blocks, Michael Washington led us with 39. Other than the numbers posted by Steven Hill, Oliver Miller, and Andrew Lang, Mike's numbers were pretty representative of where our leader usually falls.

[rzrbackrob]

I remember Sutton use to make his players wear the word defense on their practice jerseys.