Springdale CC or Paradise Valley?

[Boog41]

River, here is a link to the various types of memberships at SCC. Looks like $270/mth, no initiation fee is the one you might be looking at.

http://www.springdalecc.com/Membership.aspx

[CabotHog87]

River, here is a link to the various types of memberships at SCC. Looks like $270/mth, no initiation fee is the one you might be looking at.

http://www.springdalecc.com/Membership.aspx

See, my thing is I don't understand the big difference between going with the Junior and the Junior Associate. I see you get credit towards a Class A membership, but what's really the benefit of paying the extra $60 in dues per month?

[Boog41]

See, my thing is I don't understand the big difference between going with the Junior and the Junior Associate. I see you get credit towards a Class A membership, but what's really the benefit of paying the extra $60 in dues per month?

Class A membership lets you vote annually for the board of directors....which is made up club members. I can only remember one other time when the membership voted on something and that was to flip the two nines for what was the front and back. It was actually a pretty hotly contested vote.

[RivercrestHog]

River, here is a link to the various types of memberships at SCC. Looks like $270/mth, no initiation fee is the one you might be looking at.

http://www.springdalecc.com/Membership.aspx

Thanks Boog. Are you member there?

[HognitiveDissonance]

Why does anyone pay that much money to join a country club? To each his own, but I truly don't get it.
I'm the type of person that would get tired of playing Pebble Beach all the time. I MUST have some variety.
And if you pay good money to join a club, there's even more pressure to play there and justify the expense and never play anywhere else.

[Boog41]

Thanks Boog. Are you member there?

Yes I am. 20+ years.

[majestic]

Why does anyone pay that much money to join a country club? To each his own, but I truly don't get it.
I'm the type of person that would get tired of playing Pebble Beach all the time. I MUST have some variety.
And if you pay good money to join a club, there's even more pressure to play there and justify the expense and never play anywhere else.

Because if you play enough you save money. I'm told that some courses actually move tee-boxes and hole locations around.

[Boarcephus]

Why does anyone pay that much money to join a country club? To each his own, but I truly don't get it.
I'm the type of person that would get tired of playing Pebble Beach all the time. I MUST have some variety.
And if you pay good money to join a club, there's even more pressure to play there and justify the expense and never play anywhere else.

That's one advantage of the Lindsey deal.  We can play 2 different 18 hole courses and 7 or 8  executive courses in nw Arkansas and have access to ones in Springfield, Tulsa, Conway, LR and others if we want to travel a little further.  If you're into entertaining clients and enjoy the finer things the larger, nicer clubs offer,  then PV can't compete with SCC, FCC or Pinnacle but it's roughly a third the price.  You have to decide what's important to you. I toyed with idea of joining SCC a couple years ago but like someone said earlier, all my friends are at PV so I stayed.

[RivercrestHog]

Yes I am. 20+ years.

Any pros or cons of the place that haven't been mentioned?

[Boog41]

Any pros or cons of the place that haven't been mentioned?

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is that the men's locker room also has a hot sauna and showers.

[HognitiveDissonance]

That's one advantage of the Lindsey deal.  We can play 2 different 18 hole courses and 7 or 8  executive courses in nw Arkansas and have access to ones in Springfield, Tulsa, Conway, LR and others if we want to travel a little further.  If you're into entertaining clients and enjoy the finer things the larger, nicer clubs offer,  then PV can't compete with SCC, FCC or Pinnacle but it's roughly a third the price.  You have to decide what's important to you. I toyed with idea of joining SCC a couple years ago but like someone said earlier, all my friends are at PV so I stayed.

Agreed. The Lindsey deal is different...because of the variety it offers. It's a good deal.

Same thing with the Cooper properties, Hot Springs Village, or Bella Vista Village. I can play nine straight weekends at HSV and never play the same course twice. The courses never feel like 'old hat' to me.

[onebadrubi]

Agreed. The Lindsey deal is different...because of the variety it offers. It's a good deal.

Same thing with the Cooper properties, Hot Springs Village, or Bella Vista Village. I can play nine straight weekends at HSV and never play the same course twice. The courses never feel like 'old hat' to me.

What all does cooper own?  Greystone mountain springs as I call it and Cooper's hawk, but what else?

[RivercrestHog]

The only thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is that the men's locker room also has a hot sauna and showers.

Very nice. Thanks Boog!

[HognitiveDissonance]

What all does cooper own?  Greystone mountain springs as I call it and Cooper's hawk, but what else?

I'm not sure anymore but at one time Hot Springs Village, Bella Vista Village, Cherokee Village were all Cooper properties.
Also Ledgestone in Branson.

[onebadrubi]

I'm not sure anymore but at one time Hot Springs Village, Bella Vista Village, Cherokee Village were all Cooper properties.
Also Ledgestone in Branson.

Bella vista, hot springs village, and the villages in florida I bekieve are all owned by the same
Company, and that's not cooper.

[Sir Oinksalot]

I'm not sure anymore but at one time Hot Springs Village, Bella Vista Village, Cherokee Village were all Cooper properties.
Also Ledgestone in Branson.

...Cooper is no longer involved in Ledgestone because their vision did not
come to fruition ... They are involved in the others as well as Telico in Tenn.
and Savannah Lakes in Ga.

I really think HSV will go public eventually.  They pay enormous taxes to
the Counties but as a private area don't get any money for their
roads, police, fire and all the other services "towns" get.
So look for the City of HSV ... No gates and all
courses and lakes for public use.

[Sir Oinksalot]

What about Stonebridge Meadows in Fayetteville. I know the prices but
wanted to know if anyones played it and what you think....

Couple of nice places there I'm going up to see ...

[GolfNut57]

...Cooper is no longer involved in Ledgestone because their vision did not
come to fruition ... They are involved in the others as well as Telico in Tenn.
and Savannah Lakes in Ga.

I really think HSV will go public eventually.  They pay enormous taxes to
the Counties but as a private area don't get any money for their
roads, police, fire and all the other services "towns" get.
So look for the City of HSV ... No gates and all
courses and lakes for public use.

That would be awesome.

[Sir Oinksalot]

... yeah, it's just economics. I mean everything goes up all the time
and the $36 mth. just won't do it. So they raised the POA and got sued.
These old Villagers are stuck in the 50's haha. These school districts
aren't though, let me tell you...

Plus, you know, there just isn't quite the rounds played anymore and
the revenue has suffered as well.  So, I expect it.

[GolfNut57]

So would Diamante also become open to the public?

[Sir Oinksalot]

So would Diamante also become open to the public?

...no, Diamante is going to be bought by the members of Diamante as soon as a lawsuit which was brought against the llc club Corp by one of the members is settled ...

That was my prediction about the Village going public, but it's still a ways down the road ...
The Village is owned by the POA.  Cooper no longer has a presence in home bldg or lot sales.  The courses are managed by TROON golf for the POA ...

[Sir Oinksalot]

....see, the problem w/Diamante is that they have "tie in dues"  meaning, as long as you own your lot you must pay dues even after you are long past "gumming it" in your rocking chair ... and dead. Then your children and their children must pay dues forever ... so, there is a suit against that and when that is resolved the members will buy the club for $625K to Club Corp's LLC and Cooper Communities will get 100 unsold lots .... the members must pay dues for three years, then they will be free of dues ...

If they choose to opt out of the golf membership. ..

As it is now nobody out there can sell their homes ... because of the tie-in to Infinity ... this will change when the members buy the club with an elected board ... and the property values will go back up ...

More than you wanted to know I'm sure ...

[HSVhogfan2]

...Cooper is no longer involved in Ledgestone because their vision did not
come to fruition ... They are involved in the others as well as Telico in Tenn.
and Savannah Lakes in Ga.

I really think HSV will go public eventually.  They pay enormous taxes to
the Counties but as a private area don't get any money for their
roads, police, fire and all the other services "towns" get.
So look for the City of HSV ... No gates and all
courses and lakes for public use.

The only thing, IMO, keeping that from happening is there is no access road that goes through HSV, like Bella Vista.

HSV, doesn't really know what they want. The old property owners want to keep it secret, yet keep their green fees and POA dues. As you said, the economics of that just won't work.

I think it stays private for the forseable future. It is alread public, really, folks can come play golf without a property owner, and all you have to do to use Balboa Beach or any of the lakes is know someone to come "visit" that will call the gate and let you in. Lake Coronado is quickly becoming known as a great wakeboard lake, because of its long, deep channel. Drives the blue hairs nuts. LOL

[HSVhogfan2]

....see, the problem w/Diamante is that they have "tie in dues"  meaning, as long as you own your lot you must pay dues even after you are long past "gumming it" in your rocking chair ... and dead. Then your children and their children must pay dues forever ... so, there is a suit against that and when that is resolved the members will buy the club for $625K to Club Corp's LLC and Cooper Communities will get 100 unsold lots .... the members must pay dues for three years, then they will be free of dues ...

If they choose to opt out of the golf membership. ..

As it is now nobody out there can sell their homes ... because of the tie-in to Infinity ... this will change when the members buy the club with an elected board ... and the property values will go back up ...

More than you wanted to know I'm sure ...

$625K ?!?!? You have got to be kidding me. It would cost 8 figures to build that damn thing today, counting the clubhouse/restaurant.

[Sir Oinksalot]

...haha, yeah you are about right, was north of $8M. .in '96...

[Rendezvous Cook]

What did you decide?  I joined SCC in February.  Absolutely love it and the people are great.

[waphill]

What did you decide?  I joined SCC in February.  Absolutely love it and the people are great.

Have you met the pro named Matt? If so, the next time you see him, slap him for me. It needs to be backhanded, as if you were his pimp. Tell him it's from waphill. He'll understand!!

[Boog41]

Have you met the pro named Matt? If so, the next time you see him, slap him for me. It needs to be backhanded, as if you were his pimp. Tell him it's from waphill. He'll understand!!

Done. He screamed "thank you sir, may I have another"!

[RivercrestHog]

What did you decide?  I joined SCC in February.  Absolutely love it and the people are great.

I joined SCC last month. Haven't gotten to play much yet, but I've loved it so far!

[The_Iceman]

I just joined Paradise Valley 2 months ago. I was a member at Lost Springs but due to a switch in jobs, its easier to do PV after work (which is when I play the most). Lost Springs is much nicer than PV in my opinion. I'm not a huge fan of the more narrow layout of PV, whereas LS is a grip it a rip it set up. I do like the PV membership because I can swing over and play any of the nice 9-hole courses on the weekend when it is more busy, like Blossom Way or Rainbow Curve.

If finances allow, I'd one day like to join SCC. I've heard good things. Shadow Valley looks really nice as well, but I just don't know if I can afford that.

[woodhog14]

I joined FCC last year and I love it. The greens are unbelievable and some of the best around. Food is awesome as well. I'm really glad I finally joined a CC. 

[Sir Oinksalot]

Could someone who has played Shadow Valley give their impressions....

tia...

[Rendezvous Cook]

PV and SCC have both lost their greens. Blown money at both courses for the past 2 seasons.

[Boarcephus]

PV and SCC have both lost their greens. Blown money at both courses for the past 2 seasons.

I don't think the man in charge of the greens at PV has the faintest idea what he's doing.  We lost EVERY green last year and they blamed it on them being 50 years old.  You don't lose EVERY green unless you're doing something wrong.  The had us playing temp greens most of last year, redid them and we still have problems with several of them.  I have no idea what the problem is but I'm not a mechanic either but I know when my car runs like crap and I take it to someone who knows about cars and let them fix  it.  They need to hire someone to fix our problem who knows what in the hell he's doing. 

[waphill]

PV and SCC have both lost their greens. Blown money at both courses for the past 2 seasons.

Hasn't it been a fairly mild summer down there? Seems odd that they both lost them.

[Boog41]

Hasn't it been a fairly mild summer down there? Seems odd that they both lost them.

SCC's for the most part have turned the corner and the worst is over. They were never "lost" though. Some of them just weren't in very good shape. Really the problem is pretty much the back nine. This year has been so wet that apparently a fungus attacked the roots on the greens.

[waphill]

SCC's for the most part have turned the corner and the worst is over. They were never "lost" though. Some of them just weren't in very good shape. Really the problem is pretty much the back nine. This year has been so wet that apparently a fungus attacked the roots on the greens.

Is the back nine still the "old" 9?

Are they still push-up greens? They always have, and always will have issues with those. Push up greens don't have near adequate drainage for today's playing expectations. Most pushup greens were just built on top of native soil. This creates a saturated root zone, with no where for the water to go. No amount of fungicides will prevent fungal diseases with extended periods of high temps/humidity.

Paradise Valley used to have the same kind of greens. I haven't been out there in 15 years, so not sure if they're still there same. That would probably be why they lost them this year.

[Boog41]

Is the back nine still the "old" 9?

Are they still push-up greens? They always have, and always will have issues with those. Push up greens don't have near adequate drainage for today's playing expectations. Most pushup greens were just built on top of native soil. This creates a saturated root zone, with no where for the water to go. No amount of fungicides will prevent fungal diseases with extended periods of high temps/humidity.

Paradise Valley used to have the same kind of greens. I haven't been out there in 15 years, so not sure if they're still there same. That would probably be why they lost them this year.

Wap, you would think that, but no..... the problem greens are the newer ones on the west side. Those have been the "back" nine for a number of years now.

[waphill]

Well then there's not really much excuse for that! They were built correctly, good airflow, etc.