Springdale CC or Paradise Valley?

[RivercrestHog]

I'm in the early stages of looking at joining at club. These 2 are at the top so far as I can't afford somewhere like Pinnacle or Fayetteville CC. What are y'all's thoughts on each course?

[PorcineSublime]

Haven't Played SDCC but have PV. It nice but not amazing. The thing with Paradise is that you can get a membership that allows you to also play Lost Springs and all other Lindsey courses. Having said that if you are looking for the "Country Club" experience, judging by facilities, I think Springdale has a big edge there.

[Boarcephus]

If you can afford SDCC you can afford FCC.   I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to get by at Springdale for less than $400 a month while I pay $160 a month at PVCC.  The amenities at Springdale are far better than PVCC but you pay for them.

[Sir Oinksalot]

How much is The Blessings?

[ricepig]

How much is The Blessings?

Kind of like asking how much will the fuel cost on a yacht, if you have to ask........

[RivercrestHog]

If you can afford SDCC you can afford FCC.   I'd wager you'd be hard pressed to get by at Springdale for less than $400 a month while I pay $160 a month at PVCC.  The amenities at Springdale are far better than PVCC but you pay for them.

Really? It seems like most people I've talked to have told me that SDCC is cheaper comparatively. I'd qualify for a Jr executive membership, so I was hoping to get by for around $300 at SDCC.

[Sir Oinksalot]

$3.89 right now for gas...

[majestic]

Really? It seems like most people I've talked to have told me that SDCC is cheaper comparatively. I'd qualify for a Jr executive membership, so I was hoping to get by for around $300 at SDCC.

I don't really like SCC's course. The trailer park really doesn't help either   PV is really a good deal since you get to play all of the Lindsey courses.  Yes, the clubhouse isn't great, but I never really cared much about that, anyway.

[RivercrestHog]

I don't really like SCC's course. The trailer park really doesn't help either   PV is really a good deal since you get to play all of the Lindsey courses.  Yes, the clubhouse isn't great, but I never really cared much about that, anyway.

Why don't you like the course?

[PorcineSublime]

Why don't you like the course?

I would say that you play both and see what you like. Again, if you want a real CC then there is no choice between the two, as PV doesn't have a fancy dining room and clubhouse. But if you are just going to play golf, then it is a tougher choice. Honestly I don't think either course sucks, so you won't hate whatever choice you make.

[Boarcephus]

Really? It seems like most people I've talked to have told me that SDCC is cheaper comparatively. I'd qualify for a Jr executive membership, so I was hoping to get by for around $300 at SDCC.

Not sure about the jr exec program but if I remember correctly, dues run around $250 a month, there's a $40-50 month food charge plus a cart charge.  Not sure what the membership charge is but I'm guess in the $2 grand range.  I looked at it a couple years ago and the amenities are great.  Nice restaurant, bar, pro shop, workout facility, things for the wife to do but those are things that we're not really in to. 

[onebadrubi]

$3.89 right now for gas...

Most yachts don't take gas.

[RazorPiggie]

I've played SDCC many times over the last few years since my lil bro was working out there. I'd say both are kept up pretty nicely. Thing with PVCC is that you get to play the other Lindsay courses. At SDCC you'll get to see Jimmy Dykes and Mike Anderson from time to time. (Unless Jimmy has moved in the last year or so)

[CabotHog87]

For Springdale CC - Junior executive membership is $210/mo. +$15 maintenance fee (so call it $225/mo.) Oh and I think it's $220/yr to add the range plan to your membership and there is a bar/restaurant minimum of $150 per quarter. My roommate is a member out there and he pays about $350/mo. after all is said and done. I'm thinking about joining out there, but was also looking into PVCC as well so we're kind of in the same boat. At PVCC, I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be jam packed every time I want to play though.

[Gohogs600]

For Springdale CC - Junior executive membership is $210/mo. +$15 maintenance fee (so call it $225/mo.) Oh and I think it's $220/yr to add the range plan to your membership and there is a bar/restaurant minimum of $150 per quarter. My roommate is a member out there and he pays about $350/mo. after all is said and done. I'm thinking about joining out there, but was also looking into PVCC as well so we're kind of in the same boat. At PVCC, I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be jam packed every time I want to play though.

If you're in the $300-$350 a month range after all fees at Springdale, I think the jr membership at pinnacle is about $330 total after taxes these days, plus $150 per quarter f&b minimum.... So not too different in monthly cost for a much higher quality facility.

[CabotHog87]

If you're in the $300-$350 a month range after all fees at Springdale, I think the jr membership at pinnacle is about $330 total after taxes these days, plus $150 per quarter f&b minimum.... So not too different in monthly cost for a much higher quality facility.

Well knowing that, the choice is easy. Springdale CC every time.

[Gohogs600]

Well knowing that, the choice is easy. Springdale CC every time.

To each his own

[Boarcephus]

At PVCC, I have a hard time believing it wouldn't be jam packed every time I want to play though.

And that is a very real concern.  We're the first ones off on Sunday am so it's not a problem but it winds up being a baby sitter for a lot of folks in the summer, drop the kids off and let them play and a place where guys take their dates.  I'm retiring in a couple weeks so I'll be able to pick my times during the week so that will help.  One nice thing about PV is you have access to all the Lindsey courses so if there's a tournament at PV you can play Lost Springs or any of the executive courses around plus the 18 hole courses in Tulsa, Conway, LR, etc if you want to road trip.  If you want a nice place to play, great club pro and little usage, look at FCC.  I'm sure dues will run about the same.

[CabotHog87]

And that is a very real concern.  We're the first ones off on Sunday am so it's not a problem but it winds up being a baby sitter for a lot of folks in the summer, drop the kids off and let them play and a place where guys take their dates.  I'm retiring in a couple weeks so I'll be able to pick my times during the week so that will help.  One nice thing about PV is you have access to all the Lindsey courses so if there's a tournament at PV you can play Lost Springs or any of the executive courses around plus the 18 hole courses in Tulsa, Conway, LR, etc if you want to road trip.  If you want a nice place to play, great club pro and little usage, look at FCC.  I'm sure dues will run about the same.

The main problem for me lies with all of my golfing friends being members at Springdale CC. So if I join somewhere else, I'd have to meet new golfing buddies, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also, I do travel back to the LR area frequently so the reciprocal feature of PVCC is enticing as well.

[Boarcephus]

The main problem for me lies with all of my golfing friends being members at Springdale CC. So if I join somewhere else, I'd have to meet new golfing buddies, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also, I do travel back to the LR area frequently so the reciprocal feature of PVCC is enticing as well.

My brother is the networkingest sob I've ever seen and he could not break into the clique at FCC.  The reciprocal feature is nice but what I like about it is it's a mile from my house, it's easy to walk and it's a $160 a month and if you pay a year in advance they knock a month off so in the scheme of things, it's fairly cheap as country clubs go.  You don't have the amenities like the larger clubs offer but it's a third the price.  All I want is a nice course so I'll have a place to play and it fills the bill nicely for that.

[jfan01]

If you're in the $300-$350 a month range after all fees at Springdale, I think the jr membership at pinnacle is about $330 total after taxes these days, plus $150 per quarter f&b minimum.... So not too different in monthly cost for a much higher quality facility.

The problem with Pinnacle is getting on the course.  You need a tee time, and they fill up quick on the weekends.  It can also have some cliques that are hard to break into.  SCC does not have tee times, and all the groups out there will let anyone play.

As for facilities, the course (and particularly practice facilities) at PCC is undoubtedly nicer, due to resources, but non-course facilities are arguably better at SCC, unless you're a tennis player.

[Gohogs600]

The problem with Pinnacle is getting on the course.  You need a tee time, and they fill up quick on the weekends.  It can also have some cliques that are hard to break into.  SCC does not have tee times, and all the groups out there will let anyone play.

As for facilities, the course (and particularly practice facilities) at PCC is undoubtedly nicer, due to resources, but non-course facilities are arguably better at SCC, unless you're a tennis player.

Agreed on the tee times. If you want to get out on short notice, you'll have to pair up with folks. If you don't mind scheduling a few days out, I feel the jr membership is the best value in the area, provided you play > 5 times per month.

As for cliques, as long as you're not an absolutely horrible and slow golfer, there are groups of guys of all skill levels that are happy to include new folks. I never saw anything otherwise during the 20+ years I played there.

[majestic]

Why don't you like the course?

I just don't care for the layout.  Getting on to play at Paradise is definitely a pain in the summer and after school hours.  I have always wished they would schedule tee times because I've gotten behind groups of 6 teenagers a couple of times.

[jfan01]

Agreed on the tee times. If you want to get out on short notice, you'll have to pair up with folks. If you don't mind scheduling a few days out, I feel the jr membership is the best value in the area, provided you play > 5 times per month.

As for cliques, as long as you're not an absolutely horrible and slow golfer, there are groups of guys of all skill levels that are happy to include new folks. I never saw anything otherwise during the 20+ years I played there.

I'll defer to you on the cliques.  I have heard there are a few, but I've also heard there are some very welcoming groups out there too.  Everyone I've met out there has been very nice in the few times I've played PCC.

[CabotHog87]

To each his own

Oh I apologize, I thought you were talking about Paradise. I knew something didn't seem right haha.

[Gohogs600]

Oh I apologize, I thought you were talking about Paradise. I knew something didn't seem right haha.

No worries. Was just comparing base costs between pinnacle and Springdale CC.

[CabotHog87]

No worries. Was just comparing base costs between pinnacle and Springdale CC.

I had no idea you could get on at Pinnacle for that price. It'd be a bit of a drive for me from Springdale just to go play though.

[Gohogs600]

I had no idea you could get on at Pinnacle for that price. It'd be a bit of a drive for me from Springdale just to go play though.

That's the price if you're under 35 (I think). After 35 it stair steps up to the full $650 or so over a number of years. If you are in that age bracket, I'd say it's the best value locally given overall cost / benefit.

[CabotHog87]

That's the price if you're under 35 (I think). After 35 it stair steps up to the full $650 or so over a number of years. If you are in that age bracket, I'd say it's the best value locally given overall cost / benefit.

Shoot, might have to look into that then. I know there's an initiation fee, but I could get that membership price for 7 years before being bumped up.

[Gohogs600]

Shoot, might have to look into that then. I know there's an initiation fee, but I could get that membership price for 7 years before being bumped up.

I think it's about $2k right now, but they went down the slippery slope years ago with negotiating initiation fees and running "specials" on a regular basis.... So imho the $2k is a soft number at best if you'd really like to join. Keep in mind, locker is extra monthly and optional, as are cart fees. Not sure if unlimited carts are built in to the dues at the other places or not. My guess is that they aren't.

[onebadrubi]

The main problem for me lies with all of my golfing friends being members at Springdale CC. So if I join somewhere else, I'd have to meet new golfing buddies, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also, I do travel back to the LR area frequently so the reciprocal feature of PVCC is enticing as well.

Most clubs have reciprocating clubs.  I believe FCC reciprocates wih Chenal and/or pleasant valley in little rock along with other nice clubs around the state.  Might want to check out a little further the reciprocating rules and locations of each

[Gohogs600]

Most clubs have reciprocating clubs.  I believe FCC reciprocates wih Chenal and/or pleasant valley in little rock along with other nice clubs around the state.  Might want to check out a little further the reciprocating rules and locations of each

I believe pinnacle and hardscrabble have an ongoing reciprocation agreement. Years ago pinnacle had one with Chenal, but that may not be in place anymore. Not sure as I dropped my membership several years ago, so I'm not sure what's changed with respect to reciprocation.

[onebadrubi]

I believe pinnacle and hardscrabble have an ongoing reciprocation agreement. Years ago pinnacle had one with Chenal, but that may not be in place anymore. Not sure as I dropped my membership several years ago, so I'm not sure what's changed with respect to reciprocation.

I believe hardscrabble and pleasant valley might also reciprocate as well. 

Something to keep in mind, when joining these nicer clubs, the pros andanaging staff have a lot of connections. They can get you on some places that aren't in writing here and there as well. 

[Boarcephus]

Question on the reciprocation deal....I know this allows you access to the course but do you have to pay some sort of green fee when you play?

[Gohogs600]

Question on the reciprocation deal....I know this allows you access to the course but do you have to pay some sort of green fee when you play?

Yes. Generally the unaccompanied guest fee, unless something else has been worked out. Given the size of pinnacles membership now vs 7-10 years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if they've cut back on reciprocation given the amount of rounds played. Generally speaking, you're not getting on blessings, southern hills, etc under reciprocation at pinnacle.... However Chenal (maybe), hardscrabble, shadow valley, etc is still probably doable. As for Springdale and Paradise Valley, I don't know who / if they reciprocate with.

[Boarcephus]

Yes. Generally the unaccompanied guest fee, unless something else has been worked out. Given the size of pinnacles membership now vs 7-10 years ago, it wouldn't surprise me if they've cut back on reciprocation given the amount of rounds played. Generally speaking, you're not getting on blessings, southern hills, etc under reciprocation at pinnacle.... However Chenal (maybe), hardscrabble, shadow valley, etc is still probably doable. As for Springdale and Paradise Valley, I don't know who / if they reciprocate with.

Appreciate it.  I thought it was something that ran along the lines that you can play here but not for free.   I take it membership at Pinnacle is growing?    It almost has to with the influx of people and money in the area.

[Gohogs600]

Appreciate it.  I thought it was something that ran along the lines that you can play here but not for free.   I take it membership at Pinnacle is growing?    It almost has to with the influx of people and money in the area.

Not positive, but i believe it's somewhere between 500-600 golf members, and then another 500 or so under social and / or tennis memberships.

[Boarcephus]

Not positive, but i believe it's somewhere between 500-600 golf members, and then another 500 or so under social and / or tennis memberships.

If I'm not mistaken, that's a higher membership total than PV has.

[Gohogs600]

If I'm not mistaken, that's a higher membership total than PV has.

Could be at this point. That was the number quoted to me from an employee as of about 2 years ago.

[CabotHog87]

So at Pinnacle, I know they have the LPGA event there every year now, which is awesome. But other than that, are there many other times throughout the year that the members aren't able to get on the course?

[Boarcephus]

Could be at this point. That was the number quoted to me from an employee as of about 2 years ago.

Just a stab on my part but I'd say PV is more economy related than Pinnacle. They can say what they want but the economy is bad and it's effects the average working man crowd that PV has more than it would effect the Pinnacle crowd. 

[Gohogs600]

So at Pinnacle, I know they have the LPGA event there every year now, which is awesome. But other than that, are there many other times throughout the year that the members aren't able to get on the course?

That's part of the reason why I dropped several years ago. Great course, great group of friendly people, but there was always something going on. Not so much with corporate events like PV, as pinnacle generally holds those on Mondays when closed, but it's always ladies night, couples night, men's night, Jr. practice night, tribute week, Arkansas cup week, etc etc.

My last year there, looking at March through October (what I feel is golf season), there were over 30 days (excluding Monday's as they are closed) where there was something going on where the course was either fully closed, closed part of the day, or they had 9 closed for something in the evening. So yes, it all adds up. Member guest is on Memorial Day weekend, so unless you play in that (new members aren't high enough in the priority to get a spot), you can't play that thurs-sat either.

All food for thought. I still think the jr membership is a great value though.

[CabotHog87]

That's part of the reason why I dropped several years ago. Great course, great group of friendly people, but there was always something going on. Not so much with corporate events like PV, as pinnacle generally holds those on Mondays when closed, but it's always ladies night, couples night, men's night, Jr. practice night, tribute week, Arkansas cup week, etc etc.

My last year there, looking at March through October (what I feel is golf season), there were over 30 days (excluding Monday's as they are closed) where there was something going on where the course was either fully closed, closed part of the day, or they had 9 closed for something in the evening. So yes, it all adds up. Member guest is on Memorial Day weekend, so unless you play in that (new members aren't high enough in the priority to get a spot), you can't play that thurs-sat either.

All food for thought. I still think the jr membership is a great value though.

Thanks for all of the info. I definitely plan on visiting and asking these types of questions before signing up for a membership.

[ricepig]

That's part of the reason why I dropped several years ago. Great course, great group of friendly people, but there was always something going on. Not so much with corporate events like PV, as pinnacle generally holds those on Mondays when closed, but it's always ladies night, couples night, men's night, Jr. practice night, tribute week, Arkansas cup week, etc etc.

My last year there, looking at March through October (what I feel is golf season), there were over 30 days (excluding Monday's as they are closed) where there was something going on where the course was either fully closed, closed part of the day, or they had 9 closed for something in the evening. So yes, it all adds up. Member guest is on Memorial Day weekend, so unless you play in that (new members aren't high enough in the priority to get a spot), you can't play that thurs-sat either.

All food for thought. I still think the jr membership is a great value though.

Sounds like they need another 9, lol. As far as reciprocal, you really need to check it out, before committing. I know for a long time JCC and Ridgepointe in Jonesboro did it, along with some other clubs, but they cut back and even cut it out between the two, something about billing, or collecting. They are correct about getting you own somewhere where there isn't a reciprocal, our Pro can get you own at a lot of courses, just through his connections.

[Gohogs600]

Thanks for all of the info. I definitely plan on visiting and asking these types of questions before signing up for a membership.

Happy to help. Just ask for a copy of the '16 golf calendar and have a look. That way you can make an informed decision. Their calendar is busy for sure, but some folks like all of the social options. Just depends on what you're looking for.

[Boog41]

For me SDCC is an easy choice

1 My buddies play there
2 Rarely have to worry about getting on the course. No tee times required
3 Nice gym/work out facility that goes along with the membership
4 The restaurant food is always really good (plus it is a restaurant experience, not a just grill)
5 The greens are nearly always the best around except maybe Pinnacle and the Blessings
6 The membership is small enough that you can meet, and make, new friends with some really good people

[CabotHog87]

For me SDCC is an easy choice

1 My buddies play there
2 Rarely have to worry about getting on the course. No tee times required
3 Nice gym/work out facility that goes along with the membership
4 The restaurant food is always really good
5 The greens are nearly always the best around except maybe Pinnacle and the Blessings
6 The membership is small enough that you can meet, and make, new friends with some really good people

These are the pros for me as well. Exactly the same list that I would make for SDCC. I've never had a bad experience there.

[Gohogs600]

These are the pros for me as well. Exactly the same list that I would make for SDCC. I've never had a bad experience there.

I didn't realize Springdale didn't do tee times. That's awesome! That's the main reason I dropped pinnacle years back. I like to practice in the evenings, but couldn't make a tee time in advance, as I never knew when I'd get out of the office for the day.....so it was an ongoing issue for me. I'd show up and would have to wait around 30 mins to an hour in hopes of getting out.... As I burned daylight in the process. I decided to drive an extra 10 minutes and join blessings as a result, given the small amount of rounds played and no tee times.

[CabotHog87]

I didn't realize Springdale didn't do tee times. That's awesome! That's the main reason I dropped pinnacle years back. I like to practice in the evenings, but couldn't make a tee time in advance, as I never knew when I'd get out of the office for the day.....so it was an ongoing issue for me. I'd show up and would have to wait around 30 mins to an hour in hopes of getting out.... As I burned daylight in the process. I decided to drive an extra 10 minutes and join blessings as a result, given the small amount of rounds played and no tee times.

Yep! No tee times is a huge plus. Just hit the range and then when you see an opening, head to the tee box. I'd like to play the Blessings someday. My grandfather has a friend that lives there but he doesn't golf.

[RivercrestHog]

Cabot, what's the initiation fee at SCC for the Jr executive?