Nba Finals thread

[alohawg]

I enjoy lurking through this thread for a few posts each day to make myself feel more intelligent

Ok.

[TomasPistola]

I enjoy lurking through this thread for a few posts each day to make myself feel more intelligent

Thank you for your tremendous contribution to this thread. Now go dunk your head in the McInteer fountain.

[HardingHog]

Thank you for your tremendous contribution to this thread. Now go dunk your head in the McInteer fountain.

Its open for baptism 7 days a week. Tell me when you're ready!
Until then... I don't know if I missed it amongst the bickering over Lebron and opinions about him, but Golden State won by 11 tonight and Cleveland missed 11 free throws. Goes to show that even in the NBA Finals the little things are still important
Also, that stretch by Anderson Varejao when he was abusing Kevin Love and the Cavs on the boards was interesting to watch. Goes to show which team puts more emphasis on those important small parts of the game: offensive rebounds, hustle, etc. (But having 2 of the best shooters in NBA history doesn't hurt either)

[hobhog]

Tried to watch a few minutes of the Finals. Bogut looked like a TE taking out a DB sealing the corner for a RB on that screen for Curry.  In plain sight for all of the officials and they let it go.  Bogut moved him several steps.  No wonder Curry and Thompson get so many good looks.

And Labron always reminds me of a running back when he decides to drive the lane, with DBs trying to strip the ball.

Guess that's what's coming in NCAA ball next. Too bad.

[lefty08]

I have never seen a guy who is more acclaimed to be the greatest shrink so much when the game is on the line .

This is sad, Kyrie needs to slap him in the head and wake him up

[hog.goblin]

I have never seen a guy who is more acclaimed to be the greatest shrink so much when the game is on the line .

This is sad, Kyrie needs to slap him in the head and wake him up

toward the end of the game, about 3 minutes left, CAVS down 8, and Lebron drives and gets fouled and the ball goes in and out.  3-pt play would have made it 5 and interesting.

instead he goes to the line for 2 and I tell my wife he's only going to make 1 and it's over.

Bingo.

MJ, Jordan, Bird, Reggie, all would have sank both.  Curry sank 6 in row after this in the same game.  I don't hate Lebron.  He's a great player.  But I've come to think his greatness has more to do with his size, strength, and agility, combined with being a good shooter and passer, but his overall basketball greatness is simply not up there.

[Big Nasty 34]

toward the end of the game, about 3 minutes left, CAVS down 8, and Lebron drives and gets fouled and the ball goes in and out.  3-pt play would have made it 5 and interesting.

instead he goes to the line for 2 and I tell my wife he's only going to make 1 and it's over.

Bingo.

MJ, Jordan, Bird, Reggie, all would have sank both.  Curry sank 6 in row after this in the same game.  I don't hate Lebron.  He's a great player.  But I've come to think his greatness has more to do with his size, strength, and agility, combined with being a good shooter and passer, but his overall basketball greatness is simply not up there.

Honestly, LeBron scores more, but Draymond Green isn't too far behind him in overall basketball skill. Is a better shooter, adequate passer, really good ball handler, and has a better motor on the glass. Can you imagine if LeBron had some of his fire? He would be unstoppable.

[TomasPistola]

Its open for baptism 7 days a week. Tell me when you're ready!
Until then... I don't know if I missed it amongst the bickering over Lebron and opinions about him, but Golden State won by 11 tonight and Cleveland missed 11 free throws. Goes to show that even in the NBA Finals the little things are still important
Also, that stretch by Anderson Varejao when he was abusing Kevin Love and the Cavs on the boards was interesting to watch. Goes to show which team puts more emphasis on those important small parts of the game: offensive rebounds, hustle, etc. (But having 2 of the best shooters in NBA history doesn't hurt either)

No thanks. Got mine at Wyldewood in 5th grade. Went to Harding on the 5 year plan.

[Atlhogfan1]

And Labron always reminds me of a running back when he decides to drive the lane, with DBs trying to strip the ball.

Guess that's what's coming in NCAA ball next. Too bad.

Agreed.  I've commented in the past on the ridiculous low amount of fouls on Lebron with as physical as he is.  The Star Rules in the NBA. 

toward the end of the game, about 3 minutes left, CAVS down 8, and Lebron drives and gets fouled and the ball goes in and out.  3-pt play would have made it 5 and interesting.

instead he goes to the line for 2 and I tell my wife he's only going to make 1 and it's over.

Bingo.

MJ, Jordan, Bird, Reggie, all would have sank both.  Curry sank 6 in row after this in the same game.  I don't hate Lebron.  He's a great player.  But I've come to think his greatness has more to do with his size, strength, and agility, combined with being a good shooter and passer, but his overall basketball greatness is simply not up there.

Lebron is one of the best ever because of his ability for his physical size.  I think he judged a little too harshly.  His bar he is evaluated on is Jordan, Magic, Bird, Big O, etc.  We build up these players only to at some point to try and pick at them to point out their imperfections.  Shaq was one of the most dominant because of his athleticism combined with his physical presence.  But his basketball skills when he was in his prime were somewhat underrated. 



I would have thought the Warriors would be an entertaining team to watch.  But something about it just doesn't work for me.  It is like watching a spread offense team in football.  I have nothing against the Warriors.  Don't care about either team in this series.  The moving screens are like the illegal Olineman downfield in the spread offense in football.  Shatters the rules and creates an advantage but they are smart and good enough to take advantage of it being allowed. 

[ErieHog]

Is Kyrie day in and day out one of the top PGs     It depends but in the West he would be 5th or 6th at best     Love is a totally different player than he was in Minnesota just look at him   at Minnesota he banged for rebounds now he is much more a perimeter player    I dont know how much they can get for him and that salary

Kyrie is a Top 3 offensive PG.

The problem is, that you have to be a two way PG, when you play with another major piece like Love, that is a defensive liability, or it will show over the course of the series.

He's not a bad player,  the pieces just don't always fit together right.

[ErieHog]

I tuned in and out tonight expecting the Cavaliers to even it up, lol. It's true, you could see in the body language during a stretch mid 4th,  game in the balance, that for some reason they seemed to give up. How the coach could sit and watch and not call timeout before the inevitable dagger three by GS is beyond me. Seemed real obvious from the couch.
Oh' well, 5 game yawner of a series and the Warriors repeat.....do they threepeat? Who can stop them, OKC with the right moves maybe, the aging Spurs?

All it takes is one injury to Curry or Klay to change the team dynamics.   Rumblings out of the Livingston camp indicate he may go elsewhere, which will significantly impact their second unit.  Also,  they are better when Bogut is on the court, being the best sneaky-dirty player in the league.  Dray is super skilled, but will wear out if he has to play huge stretches of extra PT due to a prolonged Bogut absence.

And teams are already starting to find ways to combat the Warriors space and shoot.  The league will eventually catch up a bit.

[Big Nasty 34]

Lebron is one of the best ever because of his ability for his physical size.  I think he judged a little too harshly.  His bar he is evaluated on is Jordan, Magic, Bird, Big O, etc.  We build up these players only to at some point to try and pick at them to point out their imperfections.  Shaq was one of the most dominant because of his athleticism combined with his physical presence.  But his basketball skills when he was in his prime were somewhat underrated. 

He has kinda brought it on himself with self proclaimed "King James" "witness greatness" and things like that. If you wanna claim to be one of the greatest, then you're definitely going to be judged against the greatest. 

[latrops]

toward the end of the game, about 3 minutes left, CAVS down 8, and Lebron drives and gets fouled and the ball goes in and out.  3-pt play would have made it 5 and interesting.

instead he goes to the line for 2 and I tell my wife he's only going to make 1 and it's over.

Bingo.

MJ, Jordan, Bird, Reggie, all would have sank both.  Curry sank 6 in row after this in the same game.  I don't hate Lebron.  He's a great player.  But I've come to think his greatness has more to do with his size, strength, and agility, combined with being a good shooter and passer, but his overall basketball greatness is simply not up there.

Lebrons combination of size, strength, athleticism, physicality, court vision, ball handling, and passing make him an exceptional player.  Unfortunately, he does have one weakness, though.  He is a mediocre mid range and three point shooter.  He is essentially unguardable in that he can get a decent jump shot off at will.  When he is consistently hitting from 15 plus, the Cavs are all but impossible to stop.  However, sometimes (game 4 a perfect example) the shot is inconsistent at best, which allows the defense to play off a little more and make it tougher for him to get to the rim.  In short, when the shot is falling he is dominant, but when it isn't, he can be contained by good teams.  He is a great player, but that unreliable jumper probably prevents his seriously challenging for GOAT status and winning as many championships as would be expected of a player of his stature and impressive statistics.

[EastexHawg]

LeBron going to the basket reminds me of Earl Campbell going off tackle.  He simply lowers his shoulder and runs through anyone who gets in his way.   I have no idea why Mark Jackson and Jeff Van Gundy seem to think it's okay for James to extend his off arm and clear out anyone and everyone along the way.  He's unstoppable going to the basket in half court sets...as long as he is allowed to charge.

As for the differences between him and the other GOAT players,  one is that at crunch time and on the biggest stages they took over games and closed the deal.  LeBron doesn't.

The other difference is he's not as great a player as they were .  He's very good, but he's not one of the greatest, as in being in the conversation for GOAT.  LeBron is Charles Barkley in a more watered down league and without Barkley's rebounding.

[Kevin]

Funny how the bigger more physical team is whining about the ref's

[thebignasty]

"Basically Draymond Green," "Charles Barkley minus the rebounding. "


lol

[Buff]

NBA suspended Green for Game 5.

[hog.goblin]

NBA suspended Green for Game 5.

The League would love to extent this one or two more games and get more revenue

But it likely won't be enough for the Cavs to win in GS

[clutch]

I understand that Green has previous incidents that brought this suspension on, but Lebron really caused this one. If you don't want someone swinging at your nuts, don't straddle them when they are trying to get up. I'm not a big Lebron criticizer or fan, but that was how I felt when I saw it happen. It was a petty move.

[Buff]

It was a petty move.

It was Bron hoping the NBA bailed him out.  They're still not winning 3 straight.

[Kevin]

nba trying to get some more games. I dislike the new commish.

[McKdaddy]

I understand that Green has previous incidents that brought this suspension on, but Lebron really caused this one. If you don't want someone swinging at your nuts, don't straddle them when they are trying to get up. I'm not a big Lebron criticizer or fan, but that was how I felt when I saw it happen. It was a petty move.

Agreed. Little good comes in the nba from stepping over another player.

[clutch]

Agreed. Little good comes in the nba from stepping over another player.

Especially when you wait until he's already trying to get up to step over him. Or when you have literally nothing around preventing you from going around. It wasn't like they were in the paint and surrounded by a bunch of guys. Going over the top wasn't even going to help him get back into the play faster.

[TomasPistola]

It was a dick move by Lebron. Green was just letting him know.

[Dr. Starcs]

I can't stand lebronze, but I really think the right calls were made here.

I don't think you can give James a flagrant for stepping over him albeit a total punk move by the so called king. He got a t and deserved it.

And there's no doubt green retaliated. I would've too.

[McKdaddy]

I can't stand lebronze, but I really think the right calls were made here.

I don't think you can give James a flagrant for stepping over him albeit a total punk move by the so called king. He got a t and deserved it.

And there's no doubt green retaliated. I would've too.

Agreed.

Draymond has been going below the belt often enough recently that it is beginning to seem comical (and boorish).

[clutch]

I can't stand lebronze, but I really think the right calls were made here.

I don't think you can give James a flagrant for stepping over him albeit a total punk move by the so called king. He got a t and deserved it.

And there's no doubt green retaliated. I would've too.

Oh I agree. The right calls were made. I've just seen a lot of reference to this all being on Green, when I feel Lebron was more at fault than anyone. I'm not saying this as a GSW homer either. I'm a grizzlies fan if I watch the NBA at all. That was just my unbiased opinion when I saw it.

By the way, I do think green is a dirty player. Anyone that kicks a man in the balls has to be. I just thought this was provoked my Lebron this time. I'd take a swipe if he stepped over me like that too.

[311Hog]

Lebron is a sore loser, and the league bends over backwards to support him.  I hope GS crushes them without Green and then lets hear the excuses for how the "full strength" Cavs still couldn't get it done.  Green should have been suspended for the OKC game this is the make up call that we all knew was coming we just didn't think the NBA would pull the trigger on a play that was so obviously instigated by Lebron, and Green really didn't do very much at all considering his history. 

[Pig in the Pokey]

Its open for baptism 7 days a week. Tell me when you're ready!
Until then... I don't know if I missed it amongst the bickering over Lebron and opinions about him, but Golden State won by 11 tonight and Cleveland missed 11 free throws. Goes to show that even in the NBA Finals the little things are still important
Also, that stretch by Anderson Varejao when he was abusing Kevin Love and the Cavs on the boards was interesting to watch. Goes to show which team puts more emphasis on those important small parts of the game: offensive rebounds, hustle, etc. (But having 2 of the best shooters in NBA history doesn't hurt either)

Tyron Lue, Mr Yes Man, is trash.

[jry04]

Lebron is a sore loser, and the league bends over backwards to support him.  I hope GS crushes them without Green and then lets hear the excuses for how the "full strength" Cavs still couldn't get it done.  Green should have been suspended for the OKC game this is the make up call that we all knew was coming we just didn't think the NBA would pull the trigger on a play that was so obviously instigated by Lebron, and Green really didn't do very much at all considering his history. 

He gets less calls now than ever before, and Curry is the face of the league, now. Before, LBJ would drive to the basket and any contact or even a blocked shot would result in a foul. Now, LBJ gets blocked quite a bit, and has been hit in the face or neck area plenty of times without anything being called. Not saying the officials are calling it one sided, because they aren't. The officiating in the Finals has been very poor both ways. Just saying there is some merit to the argument Lue has with regards to LBJ not getting the same calls as Curry, or other players because of how big of a dude he is.


As for Draymond, you cannot do the things he has done and continue to get away with it. The guy flops every bit as much as LBJ, but takes some cheap shots that are unnecessary each series. LBJ was a punk for stepping over Draymond, but Draymond flopped to begin with. LBJ barely touched him, and Draymond flopped to try and draw a foul. The thing I find hilarious about this series is people are rooting for Draymond and GSW, just to root against LBJ. However, Draymond does everything people claim they hate LBJ for. He complains after EVERY call that goes against him. He talks trash to the other team when someone complains he fouled them. He flops on minimal to no contact to try and exaggerate a foul. The only difference is he continually takes cheap shots by tackling guys (Houston series), kicking Adams, Durant, and Westbrook, and hitting LBJ below the belt. LBJ deserved a technical for his move, but you cannot retaliate like it is the playground when you have a history of punk moves like Draymond. Everyone was screaming for Draymond to get suspended v OKC, but since he did it v LBJ and it was clearly intentional, it was justified and he shouldn't be suspended.

[jry04]

I will just leave this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjeAMfW3RS0

[Dr. Starcs]

Stephen A Smith said he thinks its one of the worst calls by the league in recent history.

[jry04]

Stephen A Smith said he thinks its one of the worst calls by the league in recent history.

Stephen A. just wants to be over the top one way or the other to get people talking about him and his show half the time. I wouldn't have a problem if they just gave both technicals, instead of issuing a flagrant 1 to Draymond. However, I don't have a problem with the flagrant. ESPN had a league official on yesterday who was in charge of handing out the suspension. He basically said Draymond has been warned multiple times for his actions, and was told one more time and he was going to be given a flagrant 1. They basically said he went after LBJ for stepping over him twice. He hit him in the groin once, and then took another swipe as LBJ was walking off, but missed. ESPN had a warrior for GSW on and he said Draymond and the GSW knew he was going to get one before it was even announced, so it was expected by just about everyone.

[lefty08]

I'm just glad Lebron was able to survive those vicious punches thrown by that man. That was scary. The league nearly pissed itself after watching those vicious haymakers

[jry04]

I'm just glad Lebron was able to survive those vicious punches thrown by that man. That was scary. The league nearly pissed itself after watching those vicious haymakers

The funny thing is, if it were a player with a history of doing this stuff in college basketball that did this to an Arkansas player you would be up in arms calling for an ejection. Don't let your hate for LBJ form your opinion. This flagrant was about Draymond, not LBJ. The league has done all they can to prevent a suspension. It isn't their fault he has reached his limit. It is the leagues fault he didn't reach it sooner, though. There were 2-3 other instances he wasn't issued a T or Flagrant for that were far more egregious than this, but you can only issue so many warnings.


http://www.opencourt-basketball.com/draymond-green-hits-lebron-james-in-groin/

What LBJ did was disrespectful, but how anyone can sit here and say Draymond should be allowed to police the court himself is hilarious. That was a pretty strong hit to the groin. Did LBJ deserve it? Probably so, but you can't just go doing cup checks on anyone you want because they did something to you. 

[clutch]

I thought this was pretty funny

[lefty08]

The funny thing is, if it were a player with a history of doing this stuff in college basketball that did this to an Arkansas player you would be up in arms calling for an ejection. Don't let your hate for LBJ form your opinion. This flagrant was about Draymond, not LBJ. The league has done all they can to prevent a suspension. It isn't their fault he has reached his limit. It is the leagues fault he didn't reach it sooner, though. There were 2-3 other instances he wasn't issued a T or Flagrant for that were far more egregious than this, but you can only issue so many warnings.


http://www.opencourt-basketball.com/draymond-green-hits-lebron-james-in-groin/

What LBJ did was disrespectful, but how anyone can sit here and say Draymond should be allowed to police the court himself is hilarious. That was a pretty strong hit to the groin. Did LBJ deserve it? Probably so, but you can't just go doing cup checks on anyone you want because they did something to you.

youre wrong

[jry04]

youre wrong

Got it. Forgot hitting/kicking people multiple times in a single season should be overlooked. My apologies.

[dhizzle]

I have started disliking green for his high kicks after watching him closely. If he gets fouled or pushed one of his legs always comes up trying to hit someone.

[lefty08]

Got it. Forgot hitting/kicking people multiple times in a single season should be overlooked. My apologies.

That's not what I said, or all of what you said.

You can't judge this incident by incidents in the past. If that was the case they should have suspended him already. They didnt, and they are now, for the same reasons. It gives the league a little control over the outcome. It's disgraceful

[lynbug]

I know each games stands on it's own but.....NBA Finals.....if there was gonna be any revenge for DG's post season shenanigans this was it.  I really don't care about either of these teams but I'm sure (from talking to many basketball fans that watched) that many fans  have enjoyed the numerous replays of that little encounter.  Yeah, LeBron could have gone backward instead of forward to get out of the way but he was making a statement and I, for one, was entertained by it.

[Big Nasty 34]

Is Kyrie day in and day out one of the top PGs     It depends but in the West he would be 5th or 6th at best     Love is a totally different player than he was in Minnesota just look at him   at Minnesota he banged for rebounds now he is much more a perimeter player    I dont know how much they can get for him and that salary

Irving sure looking like a top PG tonight.

[jry04]

That's not what I said, or all of what you said.

You can't judge this incident by incidents in the past. If that was the case they should have suspended him already. They didnt, and they are now, for the same reasons. It gives the league a little control over the outcome. It's disgraceful

Except he wasn't suspended for that incident. He was suspended for ALL of the incidents. He went over the limit. That is what people are failing to comprehend. I see so many people crying LBJ got off without a suspension, but Draymond didn't. LBJ didn't exceed the Flagrant/Technical foul rules. Draymond did, and the league plus the GSW both said Draymond was issued warnings multiple times since his last technical and he clearly ignored them.

[lefty08]

Except he wasn't suspended for that incident. He was suspended for ALL of the incidents. He went over the limit. That is what people are failing to comprehend. I see so many people crying LBJ got off without a suspension, but Draymond didn't. LBJ didn't exceed the Flagrant/Technical foul rules. Draymond did.

Why are you quoting me? I understand why he was suspended, I disagree with that being a flagrant. LeBron was hit with a flagrant as well. All I have a problem with is the league controlling outcomes of games

[EastexHawg]

Irving sure looking like a top PG tonight.

Irving played an absolutely fabulous game and LeBron was hitting his outside shot.  I don't think having Draymond Green would have made much of a difference in the outcome last night. 

The double team is affecting Curry's scoring, but he is still facilitating teammates (although he has committed his share of sloppy turnovers as well).  Once Thompson's shot quit falling in the second half the Warriors were toast because no one else could make a shot.  Barnes was awful and Shawn Livingston didn't duplicate his prior performances, either.

I think sometimes the Warriors are hurting themselves always trying to set a pick on the outside when Curry has the ball.  They draw another defender to him and force the unanimous MVP to give up the ball.  Most of the 3s he has made in the last couple of games seem to come when he is one on one with an outside defender, although I'll admit a lot of those have come after getting the switch after a screen has been set.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Irving played an absolutely fabulous game and LeBron was hitting his outside shot.  I don't think having Draymond Green would have made much of a difference in the outcome last night. 

The double team is affecting Curry's scoring, but he is still facilitating teammates (although he has committed his share of sloppy turnovers as well).  Once Thompson's shot quit falling in the second half the Warriors were toast because no one else could make a shot.  Barnes was awful and Shawn Livingston didn't duplicate his prior performances, either.

I think sometimes the Warriors are hurting themselves always trying to set a pick on the outside when Curry has the ball.  They draw another defender to him and force the unanimous MVP to give up the ball.  Most of the 3s he has made in the last couple of games seem to come when he is one on one with an outside defender, although I'll admit a lot of those have come after getting the switch after a screen has been set.

noticed his sloppy ball control through several series


PP

[clutch]

Cleveland played out of their minds last night. It will be really hard for them to duplicate that kind of shooting again. Irving couldn't miss.

[EastexHawg]

noticed his sloppy ball control through several series

I don't get the lob passes he throws.  His ballhandling in traffic hasn't been at its best in this series, either.

[hogwood]

Kyrie Irving has proven he is elite. LeBron was a monster as usual, though this was particularly special. 41,16, and 7. And some people argue that LeBron is overrated. Except for in game 4, Steph Curry has offered nothing but flashy 3's that excite the casual basketball spectators. I'm not impressed. The Kyrie and LeBron show last night was truly amazing. Curry needs to step up his game because the King is showing up to slay the Prince.

[Dr. Starcs]

You act like Cleveland is up